Compared to the rest of the market, the iPhone isn't a top 10 smartphone.

[ravipiero]

And THAT is exactly what I was getting at in asking you that. Yet ANOTHER workaround to do something that should be simple. Now I have to use particular apps just to download?

Its only an app, you have an unlimited fast LTE, right? So using Twitter is also a workaround now since I have to download the app?

Like I said in the previous reply, that's IF you could even manage to do it. Bear in mind, I'm trying to give her a new Windows installation. The whole purpose of that is because of how bad her computer was running to begin with. So maybe iTunes would install and run, but there's a distinct likelihood that it would not.

If her computer is still capable enough to burn iso to pen drive, it will be capable of installing iTunes as well.

I don't want what I'm saying to be misconstrued as me saying that this is something special that Android is doing. What I'm getting at is that iOS is so limited, that doing something that should be simple becomes an issue.

It not an issue if you know how to do it

 

[daneoni]

With the iPhone, I can't attach pictures, xls spreadsheet, and pdf to the same email, and send it in to the vendors.

This statement was proven to be false by Kariya. You can.

You can pull down stuff from the web, edit them and re-upload/share them if you have the right services/apps on the phone.

You made categorical statements that weren't completely true.

Android recognises more file types and has a visible file system which of course affords certain types of functionality.

But the point is, iOS isn't a lemon either.

 

[Oletros]

This statement was proven to be false by Kariya. You can.

Are they attached to the same email?

But the point is, iOS isn't a lemon either.

Nobody has said that

 

[Ulenspiegel]

Speak for yourself, iTunes is one of my favorite iPhone feature since it can do a seamless data backup, restore, and managing my library better. But I can understand if others don't like it.

I will check your iTunes-Bluetooth issue, since I also have a bluetooth headset and never notice that before. Probably because I have my iTunes open most of the time though.

A lot of people don't like it. I don't consider it user-friendly and it is far from being intuitive. Plus it has been forced on the iPhone user. I don't think that iTunes is a feature of iPhone. It is rather a necessity.

No need to check already known issues, save your time, here is one of the links about this bug:
https://discussions.apple.com/thread/2570254

I hope it became clear that it is not "my " iTunes-Bluetooth issue.

 

[animalx]

Its only an app, you have an unlimited fast LTE, right? So using Twitter is also a workaround now since I have to download the app?

No, I mean having to use a particular app to do a particular type of web browsing. You should be able to use your browser without having to think about what you're going to use it for ahead of time. That's what I mean.

If her computer is still capable enough to burn iso to pen drive, it will be capable of installing iTunes as well.

That's quite a leap of faith to make. To say that if it can copy a file, that it can install and run an application. You may think it would, but I doubt it would have.

----------

This statement was proven to be false by Kariya. You can.

No...it wasn't. All he showed was that if you happen to have an app installed that uses a particular file type, you can create the email from that app (workaround). However, he still has yet to show that he can attach what I showed in the screenshot.

You can pull down stuff from the web, edit them and re-upload/share them if you have the right services/apps on the phone.

That's quite a caveat there. So basically what you just said is, if you use the proper workarounds, you can find away around iOS' handicaps. Not exactly making a case for iOS...

 

[ravipiero]

A lot of people don't like it. I don't consider it user-friendly and it is far from being intuitive. Plus it has been forced on the iPhone user. I don't think that iTunes is a feature of iPhone. It is rather a necessity.



No need to check already known issues, save your time, here is one of the links about this known bug:

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/2570254



I hope it became clear that it is not "my " iTunes-Bluetooth issue.

Thats what I said, some people like it, some people don't. And its not forced to iPhone user anymore, you can use iPhone without iTunes.

I'm sure there are problems with iTunes, there are also few problems with my overall Yosemite experience which is consider very minor.

I was stating that I've just heard about this problem from you, even though I also use bluetooth headset quite often.

No, I mean having to use a particular app to do a particular type of web browsing. You should be able to use your browser without having to think about what you're going to use it for ahead of time. That's what I mean.







That's quite a leap of faith to make. To say that if it can copy a file, that it can install and run an application. You may think it would, but I doubt it would have.

So you're saying that you created a windows USB installer drive by just copying the iso to pen drive? Lol lol lol

 

[animalx]

A lot of people don't like it. I don't consider it user-friendly and it is far from being intuitive. Plus it has been forced on the iPhone user. I don't think that iTunes is a feature of iPhone. It is rather a necessity.

No need to check already known issues, save your time, here is one of the links about this known bug:
https://discussions.apple.com/thread/2570254

I hope it became clear that it is not "my " iTunes-Bluetooth issue.

I definitely don't like it. A good example of why, would be custom ringtones. If I'm out and about and make my own custom ringtone, why do I need to go home and sync just to be able to use it?

 

[daneoni]

The whole debate is kind of nonsensical. Android vs iOS is one of the most mundane discussions to have (i'm guilty also but starting to avoid it). Its no longer a question of who won or who is top. They both did/are. Move on.

If you want to buy a smartphone today both these platforms are your default choices and anyone you buy will take of you for the next 24 months.

Far more interesting topics to deal with out there.

Are they attached to the same email?


Nobody has said that

Did you look at the screenshot?

He didn't say lemon but he said it couldn't be done.

That's quite a caveat there. So basically what you just said is, if you use the proper workarounds, you can find away around iOS' handicaps. Not exactly making a case for iOS...

Better than saying it can't be done full stop.

There are things Android can't do that require workarounds too.

 

[Ulenspiegel]

So using Twitter is also a workaround now since I have to download the app?

If her computer is still capable enough to burn iso to pen drive, it will be capable of installing iTunes as well.

1. The comment is irrelevant as you don't have to download an application to use Twitter. You can use a browser.

2. Not necesseraly. System requirements of Rufus (ISO to USB software): Windows XP or later, 32 or 64 bit doesn't matter. Once downloaded, the application is ready to use. System requirements of iTunes: PC with a 1GHz Intel or AMD processor and 512MB of RAM, Windows XP Service Pack 3 or later, 32-bit editions of Windows Vista, Windows 7, or Windows 8 64-bit editions of Windows Vista, Windows 7, or Windows 8 require the iTunes 64-bit installer, 400MB of available disk space, Broadband Internet connection to use the iTunes Store.
And the question is not installing, but running iTunes. By the way, you're never technically "burning" anything to a USB drive since there are no lasers or similar technology involved. This term has just been carried over from the common practice of burning an ISO image to an optical disc.

 

[jrswizzle]

No, that's the way to effectively measure the effectiveness of marketing or price (in the case of the iPhone, it's marketing). With your logic, a toyota corolla is a better vehicle than an Audi A8, because the corolla sells more.... See the flaw in that logic? $5-$10 bottles of wine sell more than the $200 bottles, but that doesn't mean it's a better product.

----------



...or that I find iOS does not measure up to Android.. As I've asked others who have replied, if one disagrees with it, what phone on the list would they replace with the iPhone?

The whole car analogy doesn't really fly. We're talking flagship devices here, yeah? They all GENERALLY fall within the same price range ($99-$299 on contract, $599 - $799 off).

You are correct that sales numbers don't mean its a better product overall - my point is, there's no way to OBJECTIVELY measure that metric. Sales numbers tell us that iPhones are the best option for the largest number of people.

Actually, if we were to take your analogies, we would be saying that people buy MORE of the $200 bottles of water or MORE of the expensive cars because iPhones are generally on the higher price side correct?

As for the second part of your post, I wouldn't include a number of the devices you mentioned because I haven't used them all. I only rank devices I've ACTUALLY spent time with and have used at length. That being said, iOS trumps almost every Android skin I've used with the exception of Sense - though I still prefer iOS to Android.

----------

I think subjectively people may feel that it isn't a top 10 phone. My opinion is the same as yours. I suppose objectively we could look at the reviews, most of which put in the top 5, with a good portion putting it at the top. I like to use reviews to see if phones have any bugs or issues but I don't really use them to formulate my own rankings. If I listened to the reviews I would have owned a HTC one or one M8 by now, but I've never rated those phones.

Agreed - subjectively, people can rank devices however they want.

The point is, a subjective list tells us nothing more than the list-maker doesn't like the iPhone. Trying to extrapolate Apple's demise from a random person's list of top 10 smartphones is ludicrous.

 

[Ulenspiegel]

Thats what I said, some people like it, some people don't. And its not forced to iPhone user anymore, you can use iPhone without iTunes.

You can't. Just read back your own post about workarounds to solve the specific situation mentioned by the OP.

 

[jrswizzle]

iOS isn't perfect - neither is Android.

I had a list of 3 wants pre-iOS 8: Quick Reply, 3rd Party Keyboards, more robust email attachment system.

I got 2 of the 3 and realized I didn't even really want the keyboards.

My current list of gripes with iOS is now down to 1 thing - email attachment.

I think there are some pretty simple ways to do this without having to build in access to the devices file system (something I DON'T want). I think we'll see it soon.

That said, I had a list of gripes with Android pre-5.0 as well. I haven't had a lot of time with L yet, so I'll reserve judgement on it. But my preference for iOS lies more in with WHOM I share/communicate than my own person use case since I find there's nothing I want to do that I can't do on iOS.

----------

You can't. Just read back your own post about workarounds to solve the specific situation mentioned by the OP.

You CAN use an iPhone without the desktop application iTunes.

Now if you are referring to iTunes the online store, that's different.....though you could still not purchase anything from there and be fine.

I will say this - using iTunes on a Windows machine is a nightmare IMO. That's why I never pull it up on my work computer.

But then, there's absolutely no need for me to do so. Heck, 99% of my use of iTunes on either of my Macs is simply playing back music/streaming my movie library to our AppleTVs. Nothing to do with my mobile devices.

 

[animalx]

So you're saying that you created a windows USB installer drive by just copying the iso to pen drive? Lol lol lol

Maybe you're not understanding. It's a preformatted image in a Zip file. All you have to do is unzip it to the root of the thumb drive, and it will be a bootable and installable image. So to answer your question....in a way yes (though the image was already premade and zipped) Lol lol lol.

 

[ravipiero]

1. The comment is irrelevant as you don't have to download an application to use Twitter. You can use a browser.

So you're saying using Twitter app is also a workaround? lol
You're phone is full of workaround then, so does mine lol

2. Not necesseraly. System requirements of Rufus (ISO to USB software): Windows XP or later, 32 or 64 bit doesn't matter. Once downloaded, the application is ready to use. System requirements of iTunes: PC with a 1GHz Intel or AMD processor and 512MB of RAM, Windows XP Service Pack 3 or later, 32-bit editions of Windows Vista, Windows 7, or Windows 8 64-bit editions of Windows Vista, Windows 7, or Windows 8 require the iTunes 64-bit installer, 400MB of available disk space, Broadband Internet connection to use the iTunes Store.
And the question is not installing, but running iTunes. By the way, you're never technically "burning" anything to a USB drive since there are no lasers or similar technology involved. This term has just been carried over from the common practice of burning an ISO image to an optical disc.

It's not only about installing the app. Creating a bootable USB taking a lot of system resource, its one of the time where I can hear my Laptop fan sound, which I don't hear even if I'm fully restoring my iPhone. But last time I jailbroke my phone using TaiG which was available for Windows only, I created a very light parallel machine and install iTunes there. No problem at all.

You can't. Just read back your own post about workarounds to solve the specific situation mentioned by the OP.

You can. For that workaround you need iTunes or (iFunBox if Jailbroken) but other than that you can use iPhone without iTunes. So the answer is YOU CAN.

Maybe you're not understanding. It's a preformatted image in a Zip file. All you have to do is unzip it to the root of the thumb drive, and it will be a bootable and installable image. So to answer your question....in a way yes (though the image was already premade and zipped) Lol lol lol.

I'm pretty sure it still doesn't work that way, but I'm giving it a shot. I'm only 4 minutes remaining from copying my Windows Bootable to Pen Drive, let see how that work out.

UPDATE:
It doesn't work!

 

[I7guy]

I get that it's more than you need, but that doesn't necessarily mean that less choices is better. The fact that more choice is there, doesn't add any level of complexity to it. It's one of those things where it's there if you need it, and if you don't, then don't worry about it. Of course if you don't need those features, then it would be inconsequential either way.


I can definitely understand how the small conveniences are nice. I like that my phone can disable the lock all together when I'm in the car or when I'm at home, but keep itself locked when in other places.

CarPlay makes locked/unlocked while your driving irrelevant.

 

[animalx]

It's not only about installing the app. Creating a bootable USB taking a lot of system resource

No...it doesn't...

I'm pretty sure it still doesn't work that way, but I'm giving it a shot. I'm only 4 minutes remaining from copying my Windows Bootable to Pen Drive, let see how that work out.

You're still not getting it. The second scenario I am referring to is a complete image. I'm not talking about the standard image that you are thinking of. I am talking about a corporate image applied across all corporate computers to ensure they all have the same software on them installed the same way. In other words, once this image is done installing, everything is already configured, complete with all necessary software packages (already configured as well).

----------

CarPlay makes locked/unlocked while your driving irrelevant.

lol ok....because that's definitely the same as having full use of everything...

 

[ravipiero]

No...it doesn't...

It's heavier than copying a single file from iTunes. I just created a bootable from my old windows PC and I can hear the fan. Never had that problem with iTunes, even restoring 32GB file from Windows Itunes. I can understand if iTunes fully loaded with media is heavy, but a clean-installed iTunes is quite light.

You're still not getting it. The second scenario I am referring to is a complete image. I'm not talking about the standard image that you are thinking of. I am talking about a corporate image applied across all corporate computers to ensure they all have the same software on them installed the same way. In other words, once this image is done installing, everything is already configured, complete with all necessary software packages (already configured as well).

AFAIK, you can't create ANY bootable disk by JUST copying files to pen drive.
Here's what I can find from quick google search regarding this matter:
"You can’t just copy files form an ISO disc image directly onto your USB drive. The USB drive’s data partition needs to be made bootable, for one thing. "
"http://www.howtogeek.com/191054/how-to-create-bootable-usb-drives-and-sd-cards-for-every-operating-system/"

 

[mercuryjones]

No...it doesn't...


You're still not getting it. The second scenario I am referring to is a complete image. I'm not talking about the standard image that you are thinking of. I am talking about a corporate image applied across all corporate computers to ensure they all have the same software on them installed the same way. In other words, once this image is done installing, everything is already configured, complete with all necessary software packages (already configured as well).

----------



lol ok....because that's definitely the same as having full use of everything...

Because you want full use of everything when you are driving your car down the road, right

 

[animalx]

It's heavier than copying a single file from iTunes. I just created a bootable from my old windows PC and I can hear the fan. Never had that problem with iTunes, even restoring 32GB file from Windows Itunes. I can understand if iTunes fully loaded with media is heavy, but a clean-installed iTunes is quite light.



AFAIK, you can't create ANY bootable disk by JUST copying files to pen drive.
Here's what I can find from quick google search regarding this matter:
"You can’t just copy files form an ISO disc image directly onto your USB drive. The USB drive’s data partition needs to be made bootable, for one thing. "
"http://www.howtogeek.com/191054/how-to-create-bootable-usb-drives-and-sd-cards-for-every-operating-system/"

Well then obviously you DON'T know. You obviously did not understand what I wrote in my last reply to you. It isn't an iso.... I've already explained to you what it is, and don't know any clearer way to explain it. Perhaps it is because you don't have the experience in doing this, and maybe that's why you're not understanding. Either way, the way I explained it is the way it is. And for your own personal information, iso is not the only way to image.

Because you want full use of everything when you are driving your car down the road, right

Why yes...yes I do..

 

[mercuryjones]

Well then obviously you DON'T know. You obviously did not understand what I wrote in my last reply to you. It isn't an iso.... I've already explained to you what it is, and don't know any clearer way to explain it. Perhaps it is because you don't have the experience in doing this, and maybe that's why you're not understanding. Either way, the way I explained it is the way it is. And for your own personal information, iso is not the only way to image.


Why yes...yes I do..

Remind me not to drive anywhere around you then.

 

[ravipiero]

Well then obviously you DON'T know. You obviously did not understand what I wrote in my last reply to you. It isn't an iso.... I've already explained to you what it is, and don't know any clearer way to explain it. Perhaps it is because you don't have the experience in doing this, and maybe that's why you're not understanding. Either way, the way I explained it is the way it is. And for your own personal information, iso is not the only way to image.


Why yes...yes I do..

I'm fully understand of what you're saying and I've tried what you've just said. I still think it doesn't work by JUST copying files (even bootable installer file) to USB Drive. You still need some kind of utilities, at least using terminal or command prompt to the boot sector area. Probably you can show some tutorial to backup what you're saying.

 

[Ulenspiegel]

So you're saying using Twitter app is also a workaround? lol
You're phone is full of workaround then, so does mine lol

It's not only about installing the app. Creating a bootable USB taking a lot of system resource, its one of the time where I can hear my Laptop fan sound, which I don't hear even if I'm fully restoring my iPhone. But last time I jailbroke my phone using TaiG which was available for Windows only, I created a very light parallel machine and install iTunes there. No problem at all.

You can. For that workaround you need iTunes or (iFunBox if Jailbroken) but other than that you can use iPhone without iTunes. So the answer is YOU CAN.

1. Oh well, try to grasp what was written. Seems you have a "workaround" fetish.
2. You mentioned the need of iTunes to solve a problem, not me.
("You can do this with iPhone. But you need iTunes to transfer data from iPhone to PC.")
3. System requirements tell a lot about what system resources are needed to fulfill that certain task. That was the reason why I cited it in both cases.
4. We can proceed in a way like kids in the kindergarten: you can't ⇒ YOU CAN ⇒ you can't ⇒ YOU CAN etc. Just to stop this nostalgical, but tiresome practice, will you please read back again your own posts dealing with how much you rely on iTunes ("seamless data backup, restore, and managing library better").

 

[ravipiero]

1. Oh well, try to grasp what was written. Seems you have a "workaround" fetish.
2. You mentioned the need of iTunes to solve a problem, not me.
("You can do this with iPhone. But you need iTunes to transfer data from iPhone to PC.")
3. System requirements tell a lot about what system resources are needed to fulfill that certain task. That was the reason why I cited it in both cases.
4. We can proceed in a way like kids in the kindergarten: you can't ⇒ YOU CAN ⇒ you can't ⇒ YOU CAN etc. Just to stop this nostalgical, but tiresome practice, will you please read back again your own posts dealing with how much you rely on iTunes ("seamless data backup, restore, and managing library better").

1. Installing apps is a very basic function of iOS/Android. I don't see any problem achieving a task using downloaded apps from App Store.

2/4. It increases your iPhone experience, but it still WORKS fine even if you choose not to use it. Same goes with iCloud, handoff, siri, etc.

3. Its a minimum requirements needed to run the program. Doesn't mean that the program couldn't/wouldn't utilize extra resources if available.

 

[animalx]

I'm fully understand of what you're saying and I've tried what you've just said. I still think it doesn't work by JUST copying files (even bootable installer file) to USB Drive. You still need some kind of utilities, at least using terminal or command prompt to the boot sector area. Probably you can show some tutorial to backup what you're saying.

I don't need a tutorial, I actually do this for a living. But hey, the next time the Federal GSA department gives me a pre-made image on a thumb drive, I'll be sure to tell them it has to be an ISO, and I need a utility to use it... :-/

In the meantime, getting back to the point.... In the example I gave, I could not accomplish that with an iPhone.

PS
Just so you know, those utilities aren't magic. For all intents and purposes, all those utilities do is arrange the files on the USB drive in what would be a bootable arrangement (along with a couple things like boot files, etc). You don't need a special utility to accomplish that if that's already done.

 

[ravipiero]

Compared to the rest of the market, the iPhone isn't a top 10 smartphone.

I don't need a tutorial, I actually do this for a living. But hey, the next time the Federal GSA department gives me an pre-made image on a thumb drive, I'll be sure to tell them it has to be an ISO, and I need a utility to use it... :-/

I never said that image can only be in ISO format and you need utility to use it. What I said was you can't just copy files into usb drive like copying regular files and it'll automatically become bootable. In your case, Windows bootable USB.

In the meantime, getting back to the point.... In the example I gave, I could not accomplish that with an iPhone.

I already told you how to accomplish those things. See few post back.

PS

Just so you know, those utilities aren't magic. For all intents and purposes, all those utilities do is arrange the files on the USB drive in what would be a bootable arrangement (along with a couple things like boot files, etc). You don't need a special utility to accomplish that if that's already done.

Like I told you few post back. I have a working windows USB installer, and I copied the whole installer to a new USB drive. By your logic it should work since its already in bootable arrangement when I copied it. But it doesn't.