Ahhh you capture my feelings so well.
I'm so frustrated with apple. So good. So much potential. If only.
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Could Todays Mac Pro Announcement Be a Sign of Whats to Come for the MacBook Pro
- Thread starter Mr. Dee
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Ahhh you capture my feelings so well.
I'm so frustrated with apple. So good. So much potential. If only.
Exactly; potential is vast, yet for some of us the offerings are laughable. Pretty much given up on Apple, tired of the disappointment's. Apple now comes across to me as a company that has one, and only one consideration of it's customer's that being to extract as much margin as possible.
The Mac once represented tremendous value, despite the premium pricing, and I have to say I never resented the pricing as I always got that value and then some. Today that reflection has drastically changed. Apple seems incapable of focusing on more than one product line at the same time, they have shifted from an industry leader to a reactionary organisation sending mixed messages, in many respects completely misjudging a significant number of it's professional customers needs.
For over two decades I have unreservedly recommended the Mac, today Apple is simply not a consideration. So yes Apple is loosing the "halo" effect from some of it's core users, nor am I in isolation with such considerations. I have little doubt Apple will finally release a more sensible MP, equally you can guarantee it's modular concept will be firmly locked to Apple and it's ridiculous in house upgrade pricing strategy which is clearly focused on scalping it's customer's.
I sincerely hope Apple proves me wrong, however the current trend speaks volume and actions are far louder than words. As of late Apple is just a company that talks, once it delivered and stunned us all, now replaced by a far more dynamic team in Microsoft, had someone 10 year ago told me I would state this I would have laughed, today a fact...
Q-6
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You may be right, but improvements and positive developments can only be achieved when one has the "courage" to admit mistakes. If a company (or a person for that matter) refuses to accept its own fallibility, it's ultimately doomed to stagnation.
That's exactly what's happened the nMP was a "face palm" from day one, desktop solutions with zero upgrade paths. Notebooks with a singular focus of being ever thinner, not performance or usability, everything tacked on as an additional cost, all with the most amusing pricing; welcome to Apple 2017.
On the flip side Apple is selling them it would seem. Been moving in a set direction for some time, equally that cost may prove to be high one in time.
Q-6
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But yet, its going to take them another year to roll out a new and improved Mac Pro? This revelation isn't new, and they should have been doing this 2 years ago. I suspect as Mac Pro sales cratered they didn't do anything but as other models were stagnating sales wise, they started to panic
In answer to the opening tagline.
No, this is apples fastest selling laptop line ever, its just about the best compromise of portability and performance anyone has ever managed on a laptop, with the best screen gamut and brightness and the fastest I/O, and all reports show that the cooling is fantastic in every scenario on every spec.
No, this is apples fastest selling laptop line ever, its just about the best compromise of portability and performance anyone has ever managed on a laptop, with the best screen gamut and brightness and the fastest I/O, and all reports show that the cooling is fantastic in every scenario on every spec.
The thread title asks:
"Could Todays Mac Pro Announcement Be a Sign of Whats to Come for the MacBook Pro?"
Apple -- in late October 2016 -- has already shown to us "what's to come" with their updated MacBook Pro designs.
We'll see a "revsion B" release toward the end up this year.
I sense that next year will bring another revision to the internals with 32gb RAM support and better graphics, but that the basic design will otherwise remain the same.
Next question?
"Could Todays Mac Pro Announcement Be a Sign of Whats to Come for the MacBook Pro?"
Apple -- in late October 2016 -- has already shown to us "what's to come" with their updated MacBook Pro designs.
We'll see a "revsion B" release toward the end up this year.
I sense that next year will bring another revision to the internals with 32gb RAM support and better graphics, but that the basic design will otherwise remain the same.
Next question?
It's especially easy to believe this if one ignores all contrary facts, which is what easily happens when something doesn't go as one wishes. The clear fact remains that the new MBP represents the most significant upgrade since the retina screen came out. Most pros like it, based on polling and comments here and elsewhere. The minority who don't are acting as though their desires should drive Apple instead of the desires of the majority of Apple users. The creator of this thread believes Apple needs instruction from people like him, a member of the unhappy minority, as though they don't have a whole department of market researchers.
Of course, but that doesn't require publicly admitting anything, which is what this is about. Public admissions are about marketing, not design. Still a good thing in this case.
Panic? What evidence is there of that?
given the journalistic heavyweights that were invited, I agree, it was more marketing then anything.
Apple's unprecedented admittance they screwed up. Tim Cook's attempt to re-assure professionals that Macs are still a focus at apple. Seems like they badly misread their customer base these past few years.
Yeah, they seriously thought post PC was it so there was no need to invest so much. For company with their resources, what they should have been doing is not leave any category untouched. What Tim doesn't realize, once there is a crack in one product line, the rest of it becomes vulnerable.
The problem with the post pc thinking, is their iPad sales have been shrinking, so they're not capturing people's attention and desire on the iPad front and angering people on the Mac front. That sets up a bad dynamic imo
Can't see any indication of panic in that. I don't think it implies they misread the customer base either. They admitted a problem with heat management, which is a technical issue. Had they gotten the technical side right, they might well have had more popular Mac Pros in the interim.
You must be an Apple insider, with your first-name relations with the higher-ups. I suspect, though, that Cook knows more about these things than you do.
Sure it does. Point in case apple admitting the Mac Pro in its trash can form, is not sufficient and they're thinking of a more upgradable desktop. From day 1 of the release people complained about its lack up upgradeability and lack of drive bays. 3 years later they admit that mistake. Why it took 3 years is anyone's guess but at least they're now admitting it.
Completely agree, Apple just want to be seen in a certain "light" is obvious to many Apple is very much "detached" from a spectrum of it's Mac customers. Currently I know of no one who is considering anything in the current Mac line up encompassing; engineers, designers, artists, teachers across multiple disciplines. All are looking to extend their current Apple based hardware or opt out completely, not one...
The fact that Apple had do this speaks volumes, people are angry, justifiably so. Apple needs to stop talking and deliver to it professional audence, no more "Pipeline" BS. What I like about the current Microsoft team is they are not afraid to innovate, create, explore different realms, they don't talk, they realise & deliver. The hardware may or may not succeed, equally they have the determination and balls to try. Succeed or fail they will learn volumes, which can only bring better products to market & the end user - Apple well we got the "Noob Bar" battery capacities slashed for the sake of an 1/8" and a port situation that is laughable for those on the go...
Q-6
Developing every product line at the same time requires a lot of resources. You shouldn't be disappointed if one or two lines lag at any given moment, especially while they were concentrating on building a new campus.
The market capital of the company has also slowed and to keep growing they will now cover all the bases. But first they have to get settled in the new campus.
The market capital of the company has also slowed and to keep growing they will now cover all the bases. But first they have to get settled in the new campus.
I think we're talking about two groups of professionals when looking at the MacBook Pro and Mac Pro. The Mac Pro is for your professional users that require masses of computing power - high end video, animation and VR, etc. That's the audience Apple has acknowledged it's failing with the current Mac Pro.
The professionals that are more likely working in the MacBook Pro range are going to be photographers, web designers and developers and video editors. Still very much professionals, but ones who's technical requirements are closer to those of consumers. Connectivity issues withstanding because of the port changes - the latest MacBook Pro's serve those professionals pretty well.
I can't see Apple u-turning on the MacBook Pro design. I can see them adding a larger battery along side the expected speed and performance bumps later this year though. I'd love to see a price drop too - but that's because I live in the UK and the latest MacBooks came with a £800 price hike which was far harder to stomach than any of the technical changes.
The professionals that are more likely working in the MacBook Pro range are going to be photographers, web designers and developers and video editors. Still very much professionals, but ones who's technical requirements are closer to those of consumers. Connectivity issues withstanding because of the port changes - the latest MacBook Pro's serve those professionals pretty well.
I can't see Apple u-turning on the MacBook Pro design. I can see them adding a larger battery along side the expected speed and performance bumps later this year though. I'd love to see a price drop too - but that's because I live in the UK and the latest MacBooks came with a £800 price hike which was far harder to stomach than any of the technical changes.
Definitely, Apple being so secrative, having such a pow-wow (with admittedly a friendly audience) is telling. Unlike other year, I see a lot of die hard apple folk jumping ship because of their decisions over the past few years.
No question, but most other companies handle this by having an organization that allows one product line to have team (or teams) of dedicated employees to work, where as apple pulls people from the Mac or OS X teams to work on the iPhone/iPad/iOS. This worked for a while, but as they've gown, one has to wonder if that business organization is the best for their current size and needs.
I agree with a lot of what has been said in the posts above mine about Apple.
Remember the iPad Pro? 12.9"?
Then of course the MacBook and so on.
It seems like portable and thin but not so much for heavy use is the theme maybe given they haven't updated Mac Pro.
Remember the iPad Pro? 12.9"?
Then of course the MacBook and so on.
It seems like portable and thin but not so much for heavy use is the theme maybe given they haven't updated Mac Pro.
I imagine that many decisions involving Mac are usually made based on how those implications of such decisions impact iPhone. It seems at least possible that Apple did not think the Mac would have tremendous impact on iPhone (and iPad) sales, but have found that even lower volume niche Mac machines can have disproportionately negative impacts on the bottom line by pushing people out of the ecosystem involving less expensive products that are upgraded more frequently.
I transitioned back to Windows with a tablet hybrid, because there was no Apple tablet with OS X (and iOS does not meet my needs as a "PC replacement") - I'm now more open to an Android device than I once was, even though I still prefer iPhone. This effect might be cascading, as I'm now considering a Windows 10 workstation. If I buy the Win 10 workstation, will I be more likely to buy an Android next upgrade cycle? Further, will this decrease my incentive to go with other Apple hardware in the future?
People like to read into things whatever they like, of course, but that isn't implied in what Apple said, nor in their announced plans. People also complain about lack of upgradability in the other Macs, and have for just as long, but that doesn't mean Apple has misread the customer base. That they return to a more upgradable model only means they decide that some combination of technical feasibility, demand, and a maintenance scheme that factors in how much damage people do to their own machines mesh *now* to make that worthwhile.
Again, if we accept what Apple says, one reason it took three years to drop the current design is that they made a technical error that made upgrades to the existing model impractical. That suggests they decided it was better to just let it remain as was until it became obsolete (which still hasn't happened for the vast majority of MP users), and then redo the whole thing, which is of course an expensive enterprise.
As several people have pointed out to you, there isn't the slightest evidence that this is happening more now than in the past, rather the evidence appears to show otherwise.
Again, all this shows is how detached you are from the professional community that has a different view than yours, including right in front of you in these forums, where such pros post daily about how much they like their Macs. I'm pretty sure Apple is well aware of what pros think about these things, as they have an entire department dedicated to market research.
The newest macbook pros have several regressions compared to the old ones. But even then, they are still better than Windows laptops if one is at all discerning/picky/anal, etc. So until windows laptops better apple, I wouldn't be too worried about apple. I just think that unless microsoft heavy-handedly controls windows, in other words becomes like apple with regards to hardware and software control, then they can't compete. Your only hope for as seamless an experience is with the surface book laptop line. I haven't seen a touchpad become as responsive as a mac. If you go from a mac to a windows laptop, you'll be annoyed. It really is worse, and in my opinion, considerably worse. Intrusive windows updates, driver installs, viruses, loud fans, lower screen brightness, hissy audio out ports, inferior webcams, battery life on light loads, speaker quality with no crackling at loud volumes, speak clarity, rigid builds, no seamless imessage/facetime support, etc. These are non-significant problems for windows laptops to solve. No one but a large company could solve this, and there is exactly one candidate to solve the hardware and software: microsoft. That's it. I would say that apple still has a ten year lead on the windows laptop. I would LOVE to be wrong as I'm not enthused about spending so much for apple stuff, but I've just made the decision that I want what works the best and in my opinion, has a lower total cost of ownership over the long run. So I'm basically an unhappy customer who can't find anything else worth switching to.
This is an interesting idea, but it does seem a stretch to think their decision about the Mac Pro is driven by a connection to the iPhone. Your own case is about other machines, more closely related to the iPhone.
This decision comes down to Apple's belief in minimalism and efficiency. By having smaller teams that can be shuttled around they have been able to port technologies from macOS to iOS and vice versa. It's a tight ship that tries to keep things consistent otherwise the OS experience becomes fragmented like Windows is often derided for.
But what I meant was hardware design and development. In that case it's harder to focus on every product line. I personally think Apple has too many lines (shocker). They should get rid of the Air. Get rid of i5 processors because they are crap. Get rid of the iPod Touch. Get rid of the Watch. Make a Thunderbolt 3 tower case with storage and graphics slot that can be used with any of their Macs, in which case they won't need to bring back the Mac Pro.
https://www.macrumors.com/2017/04/06/mac-pro-may-not-ship-until-2019/
This is also interesting...
According to this, one of the main reason for the MacPro u-turn was the barrage of criticism they receved when they released the 2016 rMBP...
People bought the 2015 one in quantity.
EDIT: Citation from the original article.
"What made Apple do a 180? Well, after the announcement of the new MacBook Pro with Touch Bar, orders for refurbished "old" MacBook Pros supposedly went through the roof, and after the initial batch of reviews came out, they shot up even higher. This response to the new MacBook Pro with Touch Bar took Apple completely by surprise. Combined with the problems surrounding the LG UltraFine 5K display and the constant negativity from professional Apple users, the company decided to double down on professional users. As Apple announced, we'll be getting a new Mac Pro and an iMac Pro as a result. In addition, Apple is said to be exploring additional Retina MacBook Pro models without the Touch Bar, and other pro-oriented features, such as hooking an iPad Pro up to a Mac to use it as a Cintiq-like device."
If true, I see a fast u-turn also on the MBPs
This is also interesting...
According to this, one of the main reason for the MacPro u-turn was the barrage of criticism they receved when they released the 2016 rMBP...
People bought the 2015 one in quantity.
EDIT: Citation from the original article.
"What made Apple do a 180? Well, after the announcement of the new MacBook Pro with Touch Bar, orders for refurbished "old" MacBook Pros supposedly went through the roof, and after the initial batch of reviews came out, they shot up even higher. This response to the new MacBook Pro with Touch Bar took Apple completely by surprise. Combined with the problems surrounding the LG UltraFine 5K display and the constant negativity from professional Apple users, the company decided to double down on professional users. As Apple announced, we'll be getting a new Mac Pro and an iMac Pro as a result. In addition, Apple is said to be exploring additional Retina MacBook Pro models without the Touch Bar, and other pro-oriented features, such as hooking an iPad Pro up to a Mac to use it as a Cintiq-like device."
If true, I see a fast u-turn also on the MBPs
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