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tsialex

Contributor
Jun 13, 2016
13,454
13,601
I haven't heard anyone in this forum mention the Xeon W-3175X as an option. Looking at the Intel website it looks like it's just a less-certified "desktop" version of the W-3275 "workstation" CPU).

Thoughts?

Here's Intel's side-by-side comparison:
Not supported, don't buy it, W-3175X have just 48 PCIe lanes.
 
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Snow Tiger

macrumors 6502a
Dec 18, 2019
854
634
I haven't heard anyone in this forum mention the Xeon W-3175X as an option. Looking at the Intel website it looks like it's just a less-certified "desktop" version of the W-3275 "workstation" CPU).

Thoughts?

Here's Intel's side-by-side comparison:

In addition to not having the necessary number of PCIe lanes for our MP7,1 , as Alex pointed out , the W-3175X should have a CPUID of 50654 ( Skylake W ) .

The MP7,1 supports only processors with a CPUID of : 50655 , 50656 and 50657 .
 
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awkward_eagle

macrumors member
Feb 5, 2020
84
36
With factory SMC she got around 85 - 90 C , which I think is dangerous and unacceptable . For those of you with factory 28 Cores , you might want to verify your Mac is cool under load with factory fan control .

A know someone who upgraded their stock 8c with the non M variant of the 24c W-3265 and was seeing similar default temperatures. They talked to Apple support who was messaging with an engineer while on the call and they confirmed that anything below 95c is within the operational tolerance for sustained load. Above that there seems to be a small window before the machine powers itself down. They even told the support rep about the CPU upgrade and they didn't seem to mind. Not sure what implications that has on warranty.

Changing the fan speed threshold solved the "problem" but if Apple says it's fine, it probably is.
 

Snow Tiger

macrumors 6502a
Dec 18, 2019
854
634
Changing the fan speed threshold solved the "problem" but if Apple says it's fine, it probably is.

If Apple is really claiming this , it really isn't fine . But the user won't find this out right away .

Raising the operational temps of a component beyond the component manufacturer's recommendation does precisely one thing : it will cause a premature failure of that component .

With a component like a central processing unit , that means two things : thermal fatigue of the component itself and the premature denaturing of its associative TIM .

Once the TIM denatures ( dries , evaporates , breaks apart , loses uniformity , etc ) it will fail to do its job ( helping to cool things ) and the affected component's safeties will kick in . In this case , the CPU will simply independently shut down to preserve its existence . Which will also shut down the System , of course .

It's something that will be noticed only over a period of years . A properly cooled System will last X number of years . An improperly cooled System will last only some fraction of X . This difference could be one , two or three years in reality .

If what you say about Apple is correct , then they are back to their old games of preferring a quiet System over one which has greater durability .

Which is a shame , since the cooling system of the MP7,1 is really quite admirable .
 

jasonmvp

macrumors 6502
Jun 15, 2015
422
345
Northern VA
Raising the operational temps of a component beyond the component's manufacturer's recommendation does precisely one thing : it will cause a premature failure of that component .

Do we know what the Tjunction maximum temp is for those Xeons? I've not seen anything official from Intel on it. IMHO, before we start calling out one manufacturer or another, let's make sure we have all of our stats and specs, eh? :)
 

Snow Tiger

macrumors 6502a
Dec 18, 2019
854
634
Do we know what the Tjunction maximum temp is for those Xeons? I've not seen anything official from Intel on it. IMHO, before we start calling out one manufacturer or another, let's make sure we have all of our stats and specs, eh? :)

The temperature we are talking about is the Tcase of this precise processor , which is both publicly announced by Intel and reported by sensor utilities with our MP7,1s . So , yes , we can easily verify there is a processor over temp situation occurring . It's just not immediately serious enough to trigger an automatic shut down event .

But it will definitely effect System durability and have eventual financial and convenience consequences for the user .

In as far as Apple's statements on this issue , I have no idea as I haven't talked to , or found anything in writing by , them .
 

ZombiePhysicist

Suspended
May 22, 2014
2,884
2,794
The temperature we are talking about is the Tcase of this precise processor , which is both publicly announced by Intel and reported by sensor utilities with our MP7,1s . So , yes , we can easily verify there is a processor over temp situation occurring . It's just not immediately serious enough to trigger an automatic shut down event .

But it will definitely effect System durability and have eventual financial and convenience consequences for the user .

In as far as Apple's statements on this issue , I have no idea as I haven't talked to , or found anything in writing by , them .

@Snow Tiger, you should post a link to where you got your 28core. Now that you tested the waters, let the floodgates open for others! :D
 

Snow Tiger

macrumors 6502a
Dec 18, 2019
854
634
@Snow Tiger, you should post a link to where you got your 28core. Now that you tested the waters, let the floodgates open for others! :D

eBay from China . User zhpenn got his from taobao .

But there is a lot of risk in making a purchase like this :

The seller also sells ES / QS versions of this chip , so the buyer might wind up receiving something they didn't order and might not catch the mistake in time . So , at the very least , verify that the chip's serial number and other chip markings match via the method detailed in a previous post in this thread .

And while my seller appears honest , a dishonest seller could easily swap IHSs turning an ES / QS chip into a production chip , visually .

And , the seller categorically refused to send actual pictures of the item being purchased . A red flag .

And , if the processor doesn't work properly , sending the item back to China expedited and insured will be expensive from the American continent .

And Intel will not warranty this item , as it is a Tray version . So if it dies , you're out of luck . It's unlikely , but an expensive situation all the same . There's a reason why I burned my chip in for a week ...

And because this silicon is heavy and large , the buyer will have to carefully inspect the SMC and lands before installation . Its common to see damaged silicon offered for sale on eBay , being sold "as is " . So , use the posted pictures here of an undamaged chip when performing a visual inspection to verify all the tiny SMCs are still intact - it's easy for them to get knocked off . The lands ( the 3,647 little gold contacts on the reverse of the chip ) also can come loose , which would make the chip worthless until repaired .

And the chip needs to be cleaned properly , before installation . The installer needs to be immaculate about this .
 
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Macsonic

macrumors 68000
Sep 6, 2009
1,709
100
eBay from China . User zhpenn got his from taobao .

But there is a lot of risk in making a purchase like this :

The seller also sells ES / QS versions of this chip , so the buyer might wind up receiving something they didn't order and might not catch the mistake in time . So , at the very least , verify that the chip's serial number and other chip markings match via the method detailed in a previous post in this thread .

Just to clarify, the 28 core cpu you purchased from the Chinese seller, was it made in Malaysia? Malaysian cpus works just as good as the Costa Rica CPUs? Unless I’m wrong, most of the sellers from China sell Malaysian cpu versions. Thanks
 

Snow Tiger

macrumors 6502a
Dec 18, 2019
854
634
Just to clarify, the 28 core cpu you purchased from the Chinese seller, was it made in Malaysia? Malaysian cpus works just as good as the Costa Rica CPUs? Unless I’m wrong, most of the sellers from China sell Malaysian cpu versions. Thanks

There are no country of origin markings on the chip I received , unless they are in some indecipherable code :

P1235904.jpg
 

Softco

macrumors newbie
Jan 12, 2020
19
8
I know a lot of us have read posts from people busting our stones with claims about the Threadrippers. This video just went up with a pretty exhaustive Mac Pro vs 3790X comparison. It’s a very Mac-friendly take, so if you want to give your stones a break, check it out.

 
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Coyote2006

macrumors 6502a
Apr 16, 2006
512
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I know a lot of us have read posts from people busting our stones with claims about the Threadrippers. This video just went up with a pretty exhaustive Mac Pro vs 3790X comparison. It’s a very Mac-friendly take, so if you want to give your stones a break, check it out.


Thats a great video/review.

Even if the PC has some speed advantages (maybe because of bad supported Metal/Software; gaming, but I have no time for gaming, I need a workstation) the MacPro is still years ahead regarding overall built, handling and design. If I see all these cables inside the PC ... omg ... :eek:?

It takes at least 3 days to build such a PC. If you're fair you have to add this worktime to the costs of the PC and also that it should be using a comparable GPU which costs $6000 (well mentioned in the video).

So at the end this PC costs about $13000 but has less RAM, is loud as an air condition providing 17°C in the heart of Nevada's desert, runs WIN 10 and looks ugly AF. But hey, having blinking LEDs on the GPU coolers improves daily work as high gaming framerates does. *irony off*

As a professional, I'd never use such a PC (anymore), no matter what benchmark it delivers. But of course that's just my opinion and if others get happy with it, go for it. I just feel better and more motivated to work with such a great MacPro than a PC with highest benchmarks that aren't top anymore already in a few months. I'm pretty sure I don't have to open my MacPro (when it finally delivers) for the next 5 years. It will run 24/7 flawlessly. That's worth $6500 (in my case).
 

AidenShaw

macrumors P6
Feb 8, 2003
18,667
4,677
The Peninsula

Coyote2006

macrumors 6502a
Apr 16, 2006
512
233
Keep repeating this until you believe it. There are some very quiet Windows/Linux workstations, both factory and DIY.

Some gamers build them loud, but I wonder if those are some of the same people who replace the stock mufflers on their cars with ones that are much louder. ( https://www.ramforum.com/threads/loudest-exhaust-system.63551/ )

I was referring to the video and THAT PC is said to be very noisy. Watch the video and believe it or not.
 
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blackadde

macrumors regular
Dec 11, 2019
165
242
Thats a great video/review.

Even if the PC has some speed advantages (maybe because of bad supported Metal/Software; gaming, but I have no time for gaming, I need a workstation) the MacPro is still years ahead regarding overall built, handling and design. If I see all these cables inside the PC ... omg ... :eek:?

..

As a professional, I'd never use such a PC (anymore), no matter what benchmark it delivers. But of course that's just my opinion and if others get happy with it, go for it. I just feel better and more motivated to work with such a great MacPro than a PC with highest benchmarks that aren't top anymore already in a few months. I'm pretty sure I don't have to open my MacPro (when it finally delivers) for the next 5 years. It will run 24/7 flawlessly. That's worth $6500 (in my case).

If you aren’t going to open your case (since as a *professional* you say you don’t have the time), then who cares what the cabling situation is like? You aren’t gonna look at it anyways. It sits obediently under your desk, same as any other x86 computer from any other vendor.

And nobody - I repeat, nobody - is going to need three days to slap together a modern PC build. The whole thing can be done by an amateur in an afternoon, and a professional in half that.

If you can snap together an IKEA bed frame by reading the instructions, you can screw in motherboard standoffs and mount a CPU. And if people on this forum can figure out how to trick Apple into letting them upgrade their 5,1’s to unsupported Apple OSs, you can probably figure out how to click ‘next’ 7 times to install Windows/Linux.

I don’t take issue with preference for this or that OS for a given task, even at a performance deficit, but these statements are clear contradictions/inaccuracies and deserve to be called out.
 
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Softco

macrumors newbie
Jan 12, 2020
19
8
If you aren’t going to open your case (since as a *professional* you say you don’t have the time), then who cares what the cabling situation is like? You aren’t gonna look at it anyways. It sits obediently under your desk, same as any other x86 computer from any other vendor.

And nobody - I repeat, nobody - is going to need three days to slap together a modern PC build. The whole thing can be done by an amateur in an afternoon, and a professional in half that.

If you can snap together an IKEA bed frame by reading the instructions, you can screw in motherboard standoffs and mount a CPU. And if people on this forum can figure out how to trick Apple into letting them upgrade their 5,1’s to unsupported Apple OSs, you can probably figure out how to click ‘next’ 7 times to install Windows/Linux.

I don’t take issue with preference for this or that OS for a given task, even at a performance deficit, but these statements are clear contradictions/inaccuracies and deserve to be called out.

I agree with most, if not all of this. I was PC system builder for years, and they do slap together pretty easily, and enjoyably. It can make you feel smart and powerful to connect everything together and have it work.

I’m still more than proficient with Windows and I can move between MacOS and Windows like they were one and the same. Unfortunately, they’ve never really behaved the same. Like the video shows, to use Windows is to just accept regular visits from ghosts in the machine. Most are pretty manageable, and are something like ringing in the ears. You don’t notice it until it’s gone. But once it’s gone you’d rather not go back. Of course if going back to Windows also meant getting your work done in less than half the time, maybe you would.

From what I can see, Windows and Threadripper means dealing with the ringing and fan whining too.

But for me the straw that breaks Threadripper’s back is the fact that no motherboard I can find for it has more than 4 PCI slots, and experience has shown that’s just not enough. And stringing on Thunderbolt external enclosures just doesn’t cut it.

One last thought about the video. The Mac Pro system he was comparing only had 12 cores vs the AMD’s 32. I realize Intel makes you take a serious single-core-score hit when you move up to their 28 core CPU, but it still would be interesting to see how 28 Intel cores stacked up against the 32 core AMD in real-world applications like Premiere Pro. Maybe Snow Tiger can shed some light on that.
 
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jasonmvp

macrumors 6502
Jun 15, 2015
422
345
Northern VA
From what I can see, Windows and Threadripper means dealing with the ringing and fan whining too.

Preface: I'm a long (lonnng) time water cooling proponent when it comes to PCs. I honestly can not remember the last PC I built that had any air cooling for CPU and/or GPU in it. It's been a while; like before the mainstream YouTubers were even doing it. Where I'm going with that is: Max could have done a significantly better job with that water cooling BUT he would have spent a lot more money AND time to do so. The results of said time and money would have been a nearly impossible PC to hear, even under load.

The over-engineered rig I have in my office has 24(!) fans in it, JUST for water cooling. That's three radiators, each with eight fans a piece, in push/pull setups. And they spin at ~700RPMs, constant. They don't have fan curves, and they never get slower or faster. They just lope along at 700RPMs.

The air moving through the PC makes more noise than the fan blades cutting through the air, if that makes sense. It's basically silent. And it's got a fireball of a processor in it (7900X, which gets toasty) as well as two OC'd 2080Ti cards. All of those are water cooled.

The cooling in my rig cost me about $1500 alone. JUST the cooling. The point being: it can be done on a PC. You just have to spend the money and effort. Max spent neither for his video, because he was trying to replicate what the average Joe Blow would do.

I still prefer the Mac Pro and MacOS though.
 
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Snow Tiger

macrumors 6502a
Dec 18, 2019
854
634
I agree with most, if not all of this. I was PC system builder for years, and they do slap together pretty easily, and enjoyably. It can make you feel smart and powerful to connect everything together and have it work.

hehehehehe .

That only works if your clientele can afford new , expensive , powerful and quick to slap together .

There's always the other ones - certified executive preowned or something like that .

Something happened in 2008 that changed the business model .

I’m still more than proficient with Windows and I can move between MacOS and Windows like they were one and the same.

From what I can see, Windows and Threadripper means dealing with the ringing and fan whining too.

My local clients insist Windows is not as solid for their workflow . They'd rather have cheap beaten up cMPs which I don't have the time to build anymore .

Darn thing is , any MP7,1 is like the cost of a Main Frame in their googly eyes . I won't sell stock units . So , I build them up . Using certified executive preowned processors and large impressive memory kits a little too slow helps to ease the sticker shock . People will drive a long time on the dusty road to save a buck , folks . You meet the demand or die on the vine .


But for me the straw that breaks Threadripper’s back is the fact that no motherboard I can find for it has more than 4 PCI slots, and experience has shown that’s just not enough. And stringing on Thunderbolt external enclosures just doesn’t cut it.

You're right . I actually just looked at NewEgg , SuperMicro and AsRock for an AMD board with more than four 8 or 16 lane PCIe Rev 3 Slots . I found just one and its slim pickin's at that ;

AsRock Rack X399D8A-2T ATX Server Motherboard AMD TR4 4094P AMD X399 Dual 10 GLAN


But the board does nothing to inspire me to get into threadripper with GPGPU . All the action is with Intel .

I am not at all excited about eGPUs . Nothing beats a direct connect to the ol' internal bus .

One last thought about the video. The Mac Pro system he was comparing only had 12 cores vs the AMD’s 32. I realize Intel makes you take a serious single-core-score hit when you move up to their 28 core CPU, but it still would be interesting to see how 28 Intel cores stacked up against the 32 core AMD in real-world applications like Premiere Pro. Maybe Snow Tiger can shed some light on that.

I have access to a 28 Core MP7,1 and can share results with a 12 and a 16 Core MP7,1 from folks I know . Right now someone wants results from my MP7,1 stuffed full of Vegas F.E.s , but I'm up to my neck with work saving grandfathered in cMPs from the landfill . I gave my word to service them and so I shall .
 
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Softco

macrumors newbie
Jan 12, 2020
19
8
Right now someone wants results from my MP7,1 stuffed full of Vegas F.E.s

Yes please!

Though my plan was to fill my 7,1 with Radeon VIIs. My Googling tells me the VIIs are newer, cheaper and mostly faster. Don’t know what ‘ers that leaves for the FEs, but unless they’re magic-er, it’s VIIs for me.
 

Softco

macrumors newbie
Jan 12, 2020
19
8
I found just one and its slim pickin's at that ;

AsRock Rack X399D8A-2T ATX Server Motherboard AMD TR4 4094P AMD X399 Dual 10 GLAN

Since it’s still ATX the extra slots are a paradoxical trick. ‘Sure you can have an extra slot or two as long as you only use single-width cards. Oh you want a decent GPU too? Well then what you really need is one of these four-slot models.’
 
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Ludacrisvp

macrumors 6502a
May 14, 2008
797
363
You're right . I actually just looked at NewEgg , SuperMicro and AsRock for an AMD board with more than four 8 or 16 lane PCIe Rev 3 Slots . I found just one and its slim pickin's at that ;

AsRock Rack X399D8A-2T ATX Server Motherboard AMD TR4 4094P AMD X399 Dual 10 GLAN

that board also has a complex list of variables as to how many lanes which slot gets when.

4777D2DD-8E1B-47F4-9E4B-8CB0E3458F4A.jpeg

And softco made a great point as well.
 
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Coyote2006

macrumors 6502a
Apr 16, 2006
512
233
If you aren’t going to open your case (since as a *professional* you say you don’t have the time), then who cares what the cabling situation is like? You aren’t gonna look at it anyways. It sits obediently under your desk, same as any other x86 computer from any other vendor.

And nobody - I repeat, nobody - is going to need three days to slap together a modern PC build. The whole thing can be done by an amateur in an afternoon, and a professional in half that.

If you can snap together an IKEA bed frame by reading the instructions, you can screw in motherboard standoffs and mount a CPU. And if people on this forum can figure out how to trick Apple into letting them upgrade their 5,1’s to unsupported Apple OSs, you can probably figure out how to click ‘next’ 7 times to install Windows/Linux.

I don’t take issue with preference for this or that OS for a given task, even at a performance deficit, but these statements are clear contradictions/inaccuracies and deserve to be called out.

Sorry but you see this probably from a pro PC worker point of view, dealing with PC parts all day long. If a normal PC-user with no hardware knowledge starts to build a $5000 PC it surely takes 3 days if not more to find the right parts order them build everthing together. Probbaly you haven't still watched the video, even for the pros this PC built was a challenge.

And the pros are dealing with all the newest parts daily and inform themselves in the Internet or in Magazines. You have also to count this time.

The high price of the MacPro is also demanded to the extremly clever built internals. If this is need? Probably not, but it's cool and almost a peace of art. If you're right with a cabled PC then fine. I prefer the MacPro.
 

Snow Tiger

macrumors 6502a
Dec 18, 2019
854
634
Yes please!

Though my plan was to fill my 7,1 with Radeon VIIs. My Googling tells me the VIIs are newer, cheaper and mostly faster. Don’t know what ‘ers that leaves for the FEs, but unless they’re magic-er, it’s VIIs for me.

Vega F.E.s in theory pack all the punch of the Radeon Pro WX 9100 - AMD's workstation flagship . I think the only major differences between them are ECC memory support , driver support and customer support . Darn thing is they get loud because they thermally throttle if you don't bump up the blower fans of the GPU array . AMD has a special utility to adjust the rotationals of their enterprise class cards and the F.E. is supported .
 

Snow Tiger

macrumors 6502a
Dec 18, 2019
854
634
Since it’s still ATX the extra slots are a paradoxical trick. ‘Sure you can have an extra slot or two as long as you only use single-width cards. Oh you want a decent GPU too? Well then what you really need is one of these four-slot models.’

A clever Builder might find a way around that , to a degree . You'll need a big chassis , though .

Meet my friend : the magical shielded PCIe extension cable :


Screen Shot 2020-02-09 at 8.45.44 AM.png
 

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  • PCI Express Extender and Jumper Sales Sheet.pdf
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