MP 7,1 CPU upgrade in 2019 Mac Pro

[SurfNorway]

Potential 7,1 buyer pre-purchase question:

Will all 7,1 MoBo's support all (both) memory speeds? I see that the stock base model 8 core runs @ 2666MHz while all others (12 core and up) are at 2933MHz.

Back in the day (i.e. until it was stolen 6 months ago) I ran a MP 4,1 that was flashed to 5,1 and upgraded to 12 Core 3.46GHz Xeons with an AMD R9 Fury graphics card, 1TB SSD and 4TB internal RAID. It screamed! When I bought it, I recognized that there was a difference in memory speeds between the two basic motherboard versions (iirc it was 2 core vs 4 or 6 at the time), so I made sure to buy the one that would support the faster RAM and CPU's, thinking at some later point it would be upgradable. That turned out to be true, and the machine served me well for many years.

I'm not sure if that's still the case with the 7,1 (different MoBo's supporting different RAM speeds), as it seems from some of what I've read that the CPU itself sets the bus speed in these modern machines, providing the motherboard supports it. Perhaps Apple makes the MoBo able to run RAM at up to 3000MHz or similar, and it's up to the CPU to define the exact value? Do Northbridge/Southbridge chipsets exist anymore, or is it all integrated into the CPU now?

If my assumption is correct (there is only one 7,1 mother board version and it supports all RAM speeds and CPU configurations), that would mean that the base model can be upgraded by a simple (!) CPU swap all the way up to the maximum spec of 28 cores, with all the additional RAM speed and capacity support that goes with it.

Yes?

 

[itdk92]

Potential 7,1 buyer pre-purchase question:

Will all 7,1 MoBo's support all (both) memory speeds? I see that the stock base model 8 core runs @ 2666MHz while all others (12 core and up) are at 2933MHz.

Back in the day (i.e. until it was stolen 6 months ago) I ran a MP 4,1 that was flashed to 5,1 and upgraded to 12 Core 3.46GHz Xeons with an AMD R9 Fury graphics card, 1TB SSD and 4TB internal RAID. It screamed! When I bought it, I recognized that there was a difference in memory speeds between the two basic motherboard versions (iirc it was 2 core vs 4 or 6 at the time), so I made sure to buy the one that would support the faster RAM and CPU's, thinking at some later point it would be upgradable. That turned out to be true, and the machine served me well for many years.

I'm not sure if that's still the case with the 7,1 (different MoBo's supporting different RAM speeds), as it seems from some of what I've read that the CPU itself sets the bus speed in these modern machines, providing the motherboard supports it. Perhaps Apple makes the MoBo able to run RAM at up to 3000MHz or similar, and it's up to the CPU to define the exact value? Do Northbridge/Southbridge chipsets exist anymore, or is it all integrated into the CPU now?

If my assumption is correct (there is only one 7,1 mother board version and it supports all RAM speeds and CPU configurations), that would mean that the base model can be upgraded by a simple (!) CPU swap all the way up to the maximum spec of 28 cores, with all the additional RAM speed and capacity support that goes with it.

Yes?

All Mac Pro 4.1 (2009), Mac Pro 5.1 (2010) and Mac Pro 5.1 (2012) are and have been equally upgradable.

Same goes for the 7.1.

It's (and was) just a matter of what CPU supports which specific memory.

 

[tsialex]

Potential 7,1 buyer pre-purchase question:

Will all 7,1 MoBo's support all (both) memory speeds? I see that the stock base model 8 core runs @ 2666MHz while all others (12 core and up) are at 2933MHz.

Back in the day (i.e. until it was stolen 6 months ago) I ran a MP 4,1 that was flashed to 5,1 and upgraded to 12 Core 3.46GHz Xeons with an AMD R9 Fury graphics card, 1TB SSD and 4TB internal RAID. It screamed! When I bought it, I recognized that there was a difference in memory speeds between the two basic motherboard versions (iirc it was 2 core vs 4 or 6 at the time), so I made sure to buy the one that would support the faster RAM and CPU's, thinking at some later point it would be upgradable. That turned out to be true, and the machine served me well for many years.

I'm not sure if that's still the case with the 7,1 (different MoBo's supporting different RAM speeds), as it seems from some of what I've read that the CPU itself sets the bus speed in these modern machines, providing the motherboard supports it. Perhaps Apple makes the MoBo able to run RAM at up to 3000MHz or similar, and it's up to the CPU to define the exact value? Do Northbridge/Southbridge chipsets exist anymore, or is it all integrated into the CPU now?

If my assumption is correct (there is only one 7,1 mother board version and it supports all RAM speeds and CPU configurations), that would mean that the base model can be upgraded by a simple (!) CPU swap all the way up to the maximum spec of 28 cores, with all the additional RAM speed and capacity support that goes with it.

Yes?

Same base logic board for all versions, even the rack and tower versions use the same logic board.

Memory controller is on the CPU and memory speed support is linked to the CPU you have.

 

[Snow Tiger]

Potential 7,1 buyer pre-purchase question:

Will all 7,1 MoBo's support all (both) memory speeds? I see that the stock base model 8 core runs @ 2666MHz while all others (12 core and up) are at 2933MHz.

Back in the day (i.e. until it was stolen 6 months ago) I ran a MP 4,1 that was flashed to 5,1 and upgraded to 12 Core 3.46GHz Xeons with an AMD R9 Fury graphics card, 1TB SSD and 4TB internal RAID. It screamed! When I bought it, I recognized that there was a difference in memory speeds between the two basic motherboard versions (iirc it was 2 core vs 4 or 6 at the time), so I made sure to buy the one that would support the faster RAM and CPU's, thinking at some later point it would be upgradable. That turned out to be true, and the machine served me well for many years.

I'm not sure if that's still the case with the 7,1 (different MoBo's supporting different RAM speeds), as it seems from some of what I've read that the CPU itself sets the bus speed in these modern machines, providing the motherboard supports it. Perhaps Apple makes the MoBo able to run RAM at up to 3000MHz or similar, and it's up to the CPU to define the exact value? Do Northbridge/Southbridge chipsets exist anymore, or is it all integrated into the CPU now?

If my assumption is correct (there is only one 7,1 mother board version and it supports all RAM speeds and CPU configurations), that would mean that the base model can be upgraded by a simple (!) CPU swap all the way up to the maximum spec of 28 cores, with all the additional RAM speed and capacity support that goes with it.

Yes?

The memory controllers are in-silicon ( CPU ) and all Mac Pro 7,1 logic boards will support 2933 MHz memory modules .

So have no fear , with the appropriate processor your Mac will support 2933 MHz DDR4 ECC modules .

My stock 8 Core 3.5 GHz Mac Pro 7,1 came with 32 GB of 2666 MHz memory . That's the fastest any memory module would run with this CPU .

I upgraded her to a 28 Core 2.5 GHz with 2933 MHz memory .
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Same base logic board for all versions, even the rack and tower versions use the same logic board.

Memory controller is on the CPU and memory speed support is linked to the CPU you have.

Technically , that's memory controllers , as there are two in-silicon on all W-series Xeons .

 

[SurfNorway]

Thanks guys. Guess I'll be putting in my order soon for the base model, might up the SSD just to have a bit more room, pick up some 3rd party RAM and keep an eye on retailers for potential CPU upgrades as the chips become supplanted by new and improved versions in the coming years.

 

[tsialex]

as the chips become supplanted by new and improved versions in the coming years.

We probably won't see a new processor available for this socket, LGA3467, since the next generation of Xeons processors soon to be released, Ice Lake, will be on another socket, LGA4189, and not compatible with 2019 Mac Pro.
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Ice Lake (server) - Microarchitectures - Intel - WikiChip

Ice Lake (ICL, ICX) Server Configuration is Intel's successor to Cascade Lake, a 10 nm microarchitecture for enthusiasts and servers.

en.wikichip.org

 

[OkiRun]

Thanks guys. Guess I'll be putting in my order soon for the base model, might up the SSD just to have a bit more room, pick up some 3rd party RAM and keep an eye on retailers for potential CPU upgrades as the chips become supplanted by new and improved versions in the coming years.

I see some people on 7.1 threads who are disappointed in their 'low end' choices and difficulties upgrading. I haven't had a single issue with the system I ordered and am glad I chose a mid-level system. My two cents.

 

[Snow Tiger]

Thanks guys. Guess I'll be putting in my order soon for the base model, might up the SSD just to have a bit more room, pick up some 3rd party RAM and keep an eye on retailers for potential CPU upgrades as the chips become supplanted by new and improved versions in the coming years.

Cascade Lake Xeons are going to be the final LGA3647 Xeons for workstation and server Systems . It's end of the road and no upgrading will be possible .

Some PC boards support both the Cascade Lake and the earlier Skylake Xeons , so it's possible to go backwards in the PC space .

Your best bet is to wait the three to five years from date of first deployment for data centers to muster out the old Systems and wait for used Cascade Lake Xeons to wind up on eBay when liquidators / recyclers part out these Systems . Then , you'll get some affordable silicon .

But only the W-series Cascade Lake Xeons will work properly in our Mac Pro 7,1 machines and those chips are rarer than other Cascade Lakes . Other installed Cascade Lake Xeons will not survive a NVRAM refresh .

The W series chips are so rare I sold the very first one on eBay . It sold at full Intel MSRP for a new processor in four days and was a previously used chip to boot . And , the buyer pleaded with me to sell him some more chips if I had them in inventory . I had only one .

So , these W series chips are going to be in demand for some time now ... which will push up the price higher than normal even for used processors .

 

[SurfNorway]

I worded myself less than clearly.

I don't plan on buying a future CPU and expect it to be compatible. I know it won't be.

Instead of buying a 16 or 28 core today at Apple prices, I can get an 8 core (which should be enough for my current needs), and in 1-3 years find a bargain on a 28 core CPU (today's Cascade Lake Xeon W, but a few years later when interest has waned and there are more on the used market) and do the upgrade then.

Same as I did with my 4,1, then 5,1, from 8 core to 12, higher clock speed, upped the RAM, etc.
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I see some people on 7.1 threads who are disappointed in their 'low end' choices and difficulties upgrading. I haven't had a single issue with the system I ordered and am glad I chose a mid-level system. My two cents.

What system did you get? The 8 core base machine doesn't seem to be a slouch by any measurement, upping the RAM should help significantly I would think.

 

[tsialex]

I worded myself less than clearly.

I don't plan on buying a future CPU and expect it to be compatible. I know it won't be.

Instead of buying a 16 or 28 core today at Apple prices, I can get an 8 core (which should be enough for my current needs), and in 1-3 years find a bargain on a 28 core CPU (today's Cascade Lake Xeon W, but a few years later when interest has waned and there are more on the used market) and do the upgrade then.

Same as I did with my 4,1, then 5,1, from 8 core to 12, higher clock speed, upped the RAM, etc.

Sure, but forget significant price drops like what we had with MP4,1/MP5,1. A lot of servers with uni and dual processors had the same socket as Mac Pros 4,1/5,1 and used processors flooded the market as soon servers started to being decommissioned.

2019 Mac Pro Xeon-W only fits single socket workstations.

 

[flowrider]

My stock 8 Core 3.5 GHz Mac Pro 7,1 came with 32 GB of 2666 MHz memory . That's the fastest any memory module would run with this CPU .

That's odd😙 My 8 core also came with 32GB and I have added 64GB more of stock 8GB Apple modules. Even though the RAM is running at the CPUs clocked speed of 2666Mhz, every stick is marked 2933MHz.

Lou

 

[Snow Tiger]

Yeah , the W series C.L. Xeon processor is only for single processor system configurations . And higher performance single processor servers / workstations , too , due to the larger number of processor generated PCIe lanes ( 64 for the W Xeons vs 48 for all other C.L. Xeons ) .

These chips also won't be found as widely in the computer industry .

For instance , I just looked at the processor configuration list of the HP Z8 G4 workstation - HP's baddest boy . None of them come with W Series Cascade Lake Xeons . Here's the full list of the Skylakes and Cascade lakes in case anyone is interested . None of these chips are compatible with our Mac Pros :

Intel® Xeon® 3206R Processor (1.9 GHz, 11 MB cache, 2133MHz, 8 core, 85W)

Intel® Xeon® Bronze 3106 Processor (1.7 GHz, 11 MB cache, 2133MHz, 8 core)

Intel® Xeon® Silver 4108 Processor (1.8 GHz, up to 3 GHz w/Turbo Boost, 11 MB cache, 2400MHz, 8 core)

Intel® Xeon® Silver 4112 Processor (2.6 GHz, up to 3 GHz w/Turbo Boost, 8.25 MB cache, 2400MHz, 4 core)

Intel® Xeon® Silver 4210 Processor (2.2 GHz, up to 3.2 GHz w/Boost, 14 MB cache, 2400 MHz, 10 core, 85W)

Intel® Xeon® Silver 4210R Processor (2.4 GHz, 2400 MHz, 10 core, 100W)

Intel® Xeon® Silver 4114 Processor (2.2 GHz, up to 3 GHz w/Turbo Boost, 13.75 MB cache, 2400MHz, 10 core)

Intel® Xeon® Silver 4214 Processor (2.2 GHz, up to 3.2 GHz w/Boost; 17 MB cache, 2400MHz, 12 core, 85W)

Intel® Xeon® Silver 4214R Processor (2.4 GHz, 2400MHz, 12 core, 100W)

Intel® Xeon® Silver 4214Y Processor (2.2 GHz, up to 3.2 GHz w/Boost; 17 MB cache, 2400MHz, 12 core, 85W)

Intel® Xeon® Silver 4215 Processor (2.5 GHz, up to 3.5 GHz w/Boost; 11 MB cache, 2400MHz, 8 core, 85W)

Intel® Xeon® Silver 4215R Processor (3.2 GHz, up to 4 GHz w/Boost, 11 MB cache, 2400 MHz, 8 core, 130W)

Intel® Xeon® Silver 4216 Processor (2.1 GHz, up to 3.2 GHz w/Boost; 22 MB cache, 2400MHz, 16 core, 100W)

Intel® Xeon® Gold 5215 Processor (2.5 GHz, up to 3.4 GHz w/Boost, 14 MB cache, 2666MHz, 10 core, 85W)

Intel® Xeon® Gold 5222 Processor (3.8 GHz, up to 3.9 GHz w/Boost, 17 MB cache, 2666MHz, 4 core, 105W)

Intel® Xeon® Gold 5118 Processor (2.3 GHz, up to 3.2 GHz w/Turbo Boost, 16.5 MB cache, 2400MHz, 12 core)

Intel® Xeon® Gold 5218 Processor (2.3 GHz, up to 3.9 GHz w/Boost, 22 MB cache, 2666MHz, 16 core, 125W)

Intel® Xeon® Gold 5218R Processor (2.1 GHz, up to 4 GHz w/Boost, 27.5 MB cache, 2666MHz, 20 core, 125W)

Intel® Xeon® Gold 5220 Processor (2.2 GHz, up to 3.9 GHz w/Boost, 25 MB cache, 2666MHz, 18 core, 125W)

Intel® Xeon® Gold 6128 Processor (3.4 GHz, up to 3.7 GHz w/Turbo Boost, 19.25 MB cache, 2666MHz, 6 core)

Intel® Xeon® Gold 6226 Processor (2.7 GHz, up to 3.7 GHz w/Boost, 19.25 MB cache, 2933MHz, 12 core, 125W)

Intel® Xeon® Gold 6230 Processor (2.1 GHz, up to 3.9 GHz w/Boost, 28 MB cache, 2933MHz, 20 core, 125W)

Intel® Xeon® Gold 6132 Processor (2.6 GHz, up to 3.7 GHz w/Turbo Boost, 19.25 MB cache, 2666MHz, 14 core)

Intel® Xeon® Gold 6240R Processor (2.4 GHz, 2933MHz, 24 core, 165W)

Intel® Xeon® Gold 6234 Processor (3.3 GHz, up to 4 GHz w/Boost, 24.75 MB cache, 2933 MHz, 8 core, 130W)

Intel® Xeon® Gold 6136 Processor (3 GHz, up to 3.7 GHz w/Turbo Boost, 24.75 MB cache, 2666MHz, 12 core)

Intel® Xeon® Gold 6240 Processor (2.6 GHz, up to 3.9 GHz w/Boost, 25 MB cache, 2933MHz, 18 core, 150W)

Intel® Xeon® Gold 6242 Processor (2.8 GHz, up to 3.9 GHz w/Boost, 22 MB, 2933MHz, 16 core, 150W)

Intel® Xeon® Gold 6238 Processor (2.1 GHz, up to 3.7 GHz w/Boost, 30.25 MB cache, 2933 MHz, 22 core, 140W)

Intel® Xeon® Gold 6238R Processor (2.2 GHz, up to 4 GHz w/Boost, 38.5 MB cache, 2933 MHz, 28 core, 165W)

Intel® Xeon® Gold 6240Y Processor (2.6 GHz, up to 3.9 GHz w/Boost, 25 MB cache, 2933MHz, 18 core, 150W)

Intel® Xeon® Gold 6244 Processor (3.6 GHz, up to 4.4 GHz w/Boost, 25 MB, 2933MHz, 8 core, 150W)

Intel® Xeon® Gold 6248 Processor (2.5 GHz, up to 3.9 GHz w/Boost, 28 MB, 2933MHz, 20 core, 150W)

Intel® Xeon® Gold 6246 Processor (3.3 GHz, up to 4.2 GHz w/Turbo Boost, 24.75 MB cache, 2933 MHz, 12 core, 165W)

Intel® Xeon® Gold 6154 Processor (3 GHz, up to 3.7 GHz w/Turbo Boost, 24.75 MB cache, 2666MHz, 18 core)

Intel® Xeon® Gold 6252 Processor (2.1 GHz, up to 3.7 GHz w/Boost, 36 MB, 2933MHz, 24 core, 150W)

Intel® Xeon® Gold 6254 Processor (3.1 GHz, up to 4.0 GHz w/Boost, 25 MB, 2933MHz, 18 core, 200W)

Intel® Xeon® Platinum 8260 Processor (2.4 GHz, up to 3.9 GHz w/Boost, 36 MB, 2933 MHz, 24 core, 165W)

Intel® Xeon® Platinum 8280 Processor (2.7 GHz, up to 4.0 GHz w/Boost, 39 MB, 2933 MHz, 28 core, 205W)

So when these HP Systems are eventually scrapped , their processors are worthless to us .

This is not like things were in the past . For instance , some Z800 ( the baddest boy in its time from HP ) came with X5690 Xeons , which we later used in our Nehalem cMPs when the silicon became affordable .

Sadly , this time around folks , the future upgrades won't quite be as cheap as for Mac Pros in the past . Eventually the prices of these chips will come down as newer Mac Pros are bought to market . But I expect the process to be slow .

It took Apple 7 years to replace the previous , last real workstation ( 2012 Mac Pro ) . That was not an accident . We're a tiny part of Apple's Universe today , folks . Thirty years ago , workstation and HEDT were the prime market .

And Corona virus is not going to help Apple's ability to design future Systems .
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That's odd😙 My 8 core also came with 32GB and I have added 64GB more of stock 8GB Apple modules. Even though the RAM is running at the CPUs clocked speed of 2666Mhz, every stick is marked 2933MHz.

Lou

Well , technically , they are 2933 MHz ... but run at 2666 . If you upgrade the silicon they will run at their rated speed .

 

[Softco]

It took Apple 7 years to replace the previous , last real workstation ( 2012 Mac Pro ) . That was not an accident . We're a tiny part of Apple's Universe today , folks . Thirty years ago , workstation and HEDT were the prime market .

But the 6,1 was the outlier. Maybe because its design made it an un-updateable cul-de-sac.
Frequent Mac Pro updates were typical only 10-15 years ago.
August 2006
April 2007
January 2008
March 2009
July 2010

MacBooks were big sellers then too.

(Dates from Wikipedia and apple-history.com)

 

[AppleTomsk]

@Snow Tiger Could you please provide a how to for the cpu swap?
I read somewhere here that you thought about sharing your method for the cpu swap with others.
Would really appreciate it.

I bought an retail Intel Xeon W-3265M for 2000 Euro.

 

[cobra521]

What AppleTomsk said: I'd like to know the procedure too, please!

 

[AppleTomsk]

I have an issue... Ordered an 3265M and as soon as it is build in the MacPro7,1 I only get the white led but no picture.

Thought maybe the cpu is death but I also have a C621 System and the cpu works without issues with windows.... Any idea what I could try?

Chip seems to be a tray chip.

 

[cobra521]

2019 Mac Pro Xeon-W only fits single socket workstations.

@tsialex,

I'm confused (as always!) as I'm seeing server motherboards where it seems this series of socket 3647 CPU chips are used as dual CPUs. An example is the Supermicro x11dpi-nt.

Did you intend your statement to apply only to the Mac Pro, or is there something else I've missed?

Tom

 

[tsialex]

@tsialex,

I'm confused (as always!) as I'm seeing server motherboards where it seems this series of socket 3647 CPU chips are used as dual CPUs. An example is the Supermicro x11dpi-nt.

Did you intend your statement to apply only to the Mac Pro, or is there something else I've missed?

Tom

You are confounding the socket with the Xeon model. While Xeon-W is single socket only, socket LGA3647 has other Xeon models that support dual-socket motherboards.

It's the same as Xeons W35xx and W36xx, both can't be used on the dual socket 2009/2010/2012 Mac Pros. Only E55xx/E56xx, L55xx/L56xx, X55xx/X56xx support dual socket.

 

[AppleTomsk]

It looks like Apple is putting a stop to all those who do a CPU upgrade themselves...
With the boot ROM version: 1517.0.0.115.1 (iBridge: 18.16.10310.5.15,0) a Tray Intel Xeon W-3265M does not work.

I have checked the CPU on a normal server board for LGA3647 and the CPU works absolutely fine and is really a tray chip and not an ES or QS Chip.

 

[Gatewayy]

I have a question, I want to buy a mac pro with the base 8 core and put a used w-3275m in the machine. My question is, will this work, because I have seen users who are getting supported chips and they are apparently not working.

 

[assisterah]

It looks like Apple is putting a stop to all those who do a CPU upgrade themselves...
With the boot ROM version: 1517.0.0.115.1 (iBridge: 18.16.10310.5.15,0) a Tray Intel Xeon W-3265M does not work.

I have checked the CPU on a normal server board for LGA3647 and the CPU works absolutely fine and is really a tray chip and not an ES or QS Chip.

I tried to upgrade from a stock 3223 to 3235 last night. The machine won’t boot, just orange light constantly flashing. Put the stock 3223 back and it won’t boot as well.

Thought I might bend the pins but after seeing this I suspect it’s the boot ROM. My machine was on the latest OS release.

 

[AppleTomsk]

Take a good look at that socket... It sounds to me like you bent a pin.
It must work with the Original CPU. @assisterah

 

[DSM2.Hackintosh]

@AppleTomsk @assisterah

If you don't bend any pins, try to loose the CPU cooler screws a little bit.
If you still can't boot the machine try to restore the Mac via Apple Configurator 2 with another Mac Computer and a thunderbolt cable which connects the MacPro with a working machine.

 

[zhpenn]

It looks like Apple is putting a stop to all those who do a CPU upgrade themselves...
With the boot ROM version: 1517.0.0.115.1 (iBridge: 18.16.10310.5.15,0) a Tray Intel Xeon W-3265M does not work.

I have checked the CPU on a normal server board for LGA3647 and the CPU works absolutely fine and is really a tray chip and not an ES or QS Chip.


View attachment 932792 View attachment 932793 View attachment 932791

View attachment 932790 View attachment 932789

View attachment 932794

Which OS version are you using? I'm running 10.15.6 Beta, but still have an older boot room.
mine is Boot ROM Version: 1037.140.39.0.0 (iBridge: 17.16.16045.5.1,0)


I swap 3275M 6 months ago.

 

[AppleTomsk]

I did the mistake and performed an install of Big Sur on a second nvme drive I have.

After that I had a new Bootrom... @zhpenn