dell released their newest ultrasharp model ,U2723QE, U3223QE ultrasharp monitor

[Quu]

Went into the advanced settings and turns out I'm running at 1440 on my ASUS display. Seems just fine to me at that resolution. I assume running a native 1440 display would not look as good as a 4K display scaled to 1440? Maybe I don't need a 4K display at all!

When you use the scaled resolutions with a higher PPI display in macOS it initiates what we would call resolution independence.

And what occurs is, everything drawn on the screen will be done so by 4 virtual pixels. This makes text sharper, small icons in the UI much sharper and more detailed. It also allows for images and videos to be rendered with more detail.

Certain things in the UI will just quadruple without detail improvement to maintain the same physical size on the display like straight non-gradient lines. But for other things like text it has a very noticeable improvement in clarity. And it's also very noticeable on anything drawn that has curves for a boundary. For instance black text on a white background, any letter with a curve looks much sharper.

If you have a 4K display and you want a 2560x1440 desktop in physicality then it will render at 5120x2880 which is exactly 4 x 2560x1440. (2x horizontal, 2x vertical). And then it will downscale that to 4K (3840x2160) and it will look really really good. I have both 1440p and 2160p displays and for sure the 4K looks a lot better when running at a imitation 1440p size than the real 1440p does and I'm just talking about details like fonts, images, videos, small icons in the UI etc not colour or brightness type differences.

 

[vddobrev]

wow

Can you double check your calibration equipment against another display?

 

[greenbreadmmm]

Hate to ask such a dumb question, but someone earlier in here claimed Dell said not to plug into USB C with a Mac Studio cause it'll try to charge it.

Well I'm plugged in through USB C and reckon both devices are smart enough to know not to send/receive power to my studio, am I correct t in this understanding?

 

[torontotim]

When you use the scaled resolutions with a higher PPI display in macOS it initiates what we would call resolution independence.

And what occurs is, everything drawn on the screen will be done so by 4 virtual pixels. This makes text sharper, small icons in the UI much sharper and more detailed. It also allows for images and videos to be rendered with more detail.

Certain things in the UI will just quadruple without detail improvement to maintain the same physical size on the display like straight non-gradient lines. But for other things like text it has a very noticeable improvement in clarity. And it's also very noticeable on anything drawn that has curves for a boundary. For instance black text on a white background, any letter with a curve looks much sharper.

If you have a 4K display and you want a 2560x1440 desktop in physicality then it will render at 5120x2880 which is exactly 4 x 2560x1440. (2x horizontal, 2x vertical). And then it will downscale that to 4K (3840x2160) and it will look really really good. I have both 1440p and 2160p displays and for sure the 4K looks a lot better when running at a imitation 1440p size than the real 1440p does and I'm just talking about details like fonts, images, videos, small icons in the UI etc not colour or brightness type differences.

My brain was telling me that of course the 4K running in '1440' mode would have to be much better than native 1440 - it's just been so long since I've looked at anything other than very high res displays, I started to second guess myself.

Had the Huawei Matebook X with a 13.9" 3000x2000 display on it which was incredible. Got rid of it when Apple finally redesigned the MacBook Pro line.

 

[Quu]

Hate to ask such a dumb question, but someone earlier in here claimed Dell said not to plug into USB C with a Mac Studio cause it'll try to charge it.

Well I'm plugged in through USB C and reckon both devices are smart enough to know not to send/receive power to my studio, am I correct t in this understanding?

You are correct in your understanding. The device that wants power will request it, the charger doesn't simply try to send power without first being asked to do so. This is also the case with Magsafe, the middle pin is a data pin that tells the charger when to send power and how much.

 

[Degrader]

I just received my unit, and my calibration results are very different than yours.

These are the results of my unit (Rev A01) in Custom mode (R:100,G:93,B:96), brightness set at 82%:

 

[Clonetrooper]

So is there much speed difference if I connect my Mac mini via USB c or via HDMI and then use the other cable to connect the Mac mini to get the usb hub options?

If I don't connect the Mac mini via USB C (as I'd like to use that port for a laptop) do I connect USB C on the Mac mini to USB C upstream port to get the quickest hub speeds or can I use the USB A to C cable supplied?

Is the only way to get the fastest speed to carry on using the USB C to the 90w USB C port?

 

[mikepro]

I love this monitor with my 16" M1 Macbook pro, and also using it for my work laptop when working from home. Only dislike is the included USB-C cable is too short. Can anyone recommend a USB C cable 4-6 feet or 1.5-2m long? I tried one I had laying around for charging my iPad Pro, I get power delivery and USB keyboard and mouse on the M1 work, but no picture/display detected. So I'm guessing that cable is not up to spec for 4k/60Hz. The cable situation is pretty confusing with all the USB-C, thunderbolt, cables. Not sure what I even search for, do I need just 10Gb/s, 20Gb/s to get 4K60Hz and the prioritized speed for USB? Completely happy with how included cable works, just need 1 foot longer cable, so if anyone has a specific cable rec, much appreciated!

So I ordered this 6' cable from Amazon and can confirm it works for video, charging, and data.

Fasgear USB C to USB C Cable, 6ft 10Gbps USB 3.1 Gen 2 Type C 100W Fast Charge 5A Power Delivery, 4K@60Hz Video Output, Compatible for Oculus Quest,MacBook,Matebook,SSD and Other USB-C Device (Black)​

Fasgear USB C to USB C Cable, 6ft 10Gbps USB 3.1 Gen 2 Type C 100W Fast Charge 5A Power Delivery, 4K@60Hz Video Output, Compatible for Quest,MacBook,Matebook,SSD and Other USB-C Device (Black)

Fasgear USB C to USB C Cable, 6ft 10Gbps USB 3.1 Gen 2 Type C 100W Fast Charge 5A Power Delivery, 4K@60Hz Video Output, Compatible for Quest,MacBook,Matebook,SSD and Other USB-C Device (Black)

www.amazon.com

 

[vddobrev]

So is there much speed difference if I connect my Mac mini via USB c or via HDMI and then use the other cable to connect the Mac mini to get the usb hub options?

If I don't connect the Mac mini via USB C (as I'd like to use that port for a laptop) do I connect USB C on the Mac mini to USB C upstream port to get the quickest hub speeds or can I use the USB A to C cable supplied?

Is the only way to get the fastest speed to carry on using the USB C to the 90w USB C port?

When you use USB C to the 90w USB C, then the whole bandwidth is shared between video signal and USB on this one connection. There is setting in the monitor to prioritise either "High Resolution" or "High USB Speed".

I recommend using a high-speed USB-C to DP cable (DP Alt Mode) connected to the DP port of the monitor, and then another high-speed USB-C to USB-C for the USB up-stream to the monitor hub. Also the provided USB-A to USB-C cable works fine.

Leave the 90w USB C input for a laptop or a non-primary computer.

 

[Clonetrooper]

When you use USB C to the 90w USB C, then the whole bandwidth is shared between video signal and USB on this one connection. There is setting in the monitor to prioritise either "High Resolution" or "High USB Speed".

I recommend using a high-speed USB-C to DP cable (DP Alt Mode) connected to the DP port of the monitor, and then another high-speed USB-C to USB-C for the USB up-stream to the monitor hub. Also the provided USB-A to USB-C cable works fine.

Leave the 90w USB C input for a laptop or a non-primary computer.

Thank you, is there a reason you say USB C to DP and not HDMI? Or even HDMI to HDMI?

So I looked and mine is set to high speed data. Does that impact the picture then?

Thanks for the reply

 

[greenbreadmmm]

When you use USB C to the 90w USB C, then the whole bandwidth is shared between video signal and USB on this one connection. There is setting in the monitor to prioritise either "High Resolution" or "High USB Speed".

I recommend using a high-speed USB-C to DP cable (DP Alt Mode) connected to the DP port of the monitor, and then another high-speed USB-C to USB-C for the USB up-stream to the monitor hub. Also the provided USB-A to USB-C cable works fine.

Leave the 90w USB C input for a laptop or a non-primary computer.

Hmm I’m a bit confused on all this:

**Figured it out !

*also how is there not a delete post option?

 

[vddobrev]

Thank you, is there a reason you say USB C to DP and not HDMI? Or even HDMI to HDMI?

So I looked and mine is set to high speed data. Does that impact the picture then?

Thanks for the reply

Yes, reason is with HDMI you may not get RGB output, or it may be 8bit only per channel. With USB C to DP you will get RGB and full 10bit per channel.

 

[joevt]

There is setting in the monitor to prioritise either "High Resolution" or "High USB Speed".

High USB Speed = 10 Gbps which is what you want for storage devices.
Low USB speed = 480 Mb/s which is good enough for mouse/keyboard.

With High USB Speed, you only get 2 out of 4 DisplayPort lanes.

Does the DisplayPort 1.4 support include HBR3 link rate? Probably. Need AGDCDiagnose or AllRez output from an Intel Mac to be sure. The display has a MST hub to support two 4K 60 displays.

Assuming CVT-RB2 timing of 523 MHz for 4K60 and 258 MHz for 4K30 (516 for two displays)

4K30 = 258MHz
4K30x2 = 516MHz
4K60 = 523MHz
4K60+4K30 = 781MHz
4K60x2 = 1046MHz

HBR2 x2 10bpc 288MHz = 4K30
HBR2 x2 8bpc 360MHz = 4K30
HBR3 x2 10bpc 432MHz = 4K30
HBR3 x2 8bpc 540 MHz = 4K30x2, 4K60
HBR2 x4 10bpc 576 MHz = 4K30x2, 4K60
HBR2 x4 8bpc 720 MHz = 4K30x2, 4K60
HBR2 x2 DSC 720 MHz
HBR3 x4 10bpc 864Mhz = 4K60+4K30
HBR3 x4 8bpc 1080MHz = 4K60x2
HBR3 x2 DSC 1080MHz
HBR2 x4 DSC 1440MHz
HBR3 x4 DSC 2160MHz

- Ignoring mixing 8bpc and 10bpc displays. macOS doesn't support multiple displays so it doesn't matter.
- Assuming DSC@12bpp which is the default for macOS (at least on Intel Macs - I can't tell what M1 Macs are doing for DSC).

So even if you only have two lanes of HBR2, if the Mac supports DSC through an MST hub then you can still get 4K60 10bpc to the display. However, macOS on my Mac mini 2018 with W5700 and CalDigit SOHO MST hub doesn't enable DSC. I had to create the CVT-RB2 timing for 4K60 since the default CVT-RB timing of 533MHz used by my display's EDID (an Acer XV273K) is too close to the 540MHz limit of the MST hub's HBR3x2 input (MST hub adds some overhead?).

I think macOS at least supports DSC for DSC displays and its DSC adapter (USB-C Digital AV Multiport Adapter) but I'm not sure about MST hubs. Need to check Catalina since Apple had less DSC restrictions then.

Also the provided USB-A to USB-C cable works fine.

USB-A of Mac mini is only 5 Gbps. The Dell displays support 10 Gbps which you can get only from Thunderbolt of Mac mini.

 

[RabidMacFan]

High USB Speed = 10 Gbps which is what you want for storage devices.
Low USB speed = 480 Mb/s which is good enough for mouse/keyboard.

With High USB Speed, you only get 2 out of 4 DisplayPort lanes.

Does the DisplayPort 1.4 support include HBR3 link rate? Probably. Need AGDCDiagnose or AllRez output from an Intel Mac to be sure. The display has a MST hub to support two 4K 60 displays.
can get only from Thunderbolt of Mac

You’ll get HBR3 (with DSC) on m1 macs and many others. I do know for sure that the 2019 MacBook Pro can only get HBR2, and you have to switch to low speed usb to get 4k 60.

but with the m1 Macs using HBR3, doesn’t that mean you can get 4k 60 using just two lanes of the USB, leaving 2 other lanes (5Gbps ea) for full bandwidth high speed usb? That was my understanding

 

[zacheryjensen]

Really what I would want is that, but 120Hz and glossy. Why is apple the only one to make glossy screens really?
I'd love a 120Hz alternative to my UP2715K 5k glossy screen.

Because Apple makes what they believe is good and other companies just pander to whatever they think they can sell to offices. Admittedly, there are plenty of offices where glossy screens are a problem due to reflections.

 

[joevt]

You’ll get HBR3 (with DSC) on m1 macs and many others. I do know for sure that the 2019 MacBook Pro can only get HBR2, and you have to switch to low speed usb to get 4k 60.

but with the m1 Macs using HBR3, doesn’t that mean you can get 4k 60 using just two lanes of the USB, leaving 2 other lanes (5Gbps ea) for full bandwidth high speed usb? That was my understanding

The 2019 MacBook Pro has a Radeon Pro 555X or 560X so it should be able to support HBR3.

Need AGDCDiagnose or AllRez output from an Intel Mac to find out what modes are in the EDID (or any utility that can get the EDID on an M1 Mac such as SwitchResX except the MST hub of the display might block that?).
If the 4K60 mode is 533MHz instead of 522MHz then an HBR3x2 link without DSC may not be sufficient.

 

[Lucagfc]

Hello Everyone. I can't decide between going with this Dell or pay extra money to get the LG 5k. Anyone has tried both this two model and can explain me how much difference makes the native 5k resolution of the LG vs the 4k scaled Dell? Thank you!

 

[maxsquared]

Hello Everyone. I can't decide between going with this Dell or pay extra money to get the LG 5k. Anyone has tried both this two model and can explain me how much difference makes the native 5k resolution of the LG vs the 4k scaled Dell? Thank you!

I went from LG 5k to U2720Q (previous gen) and now an Apple Studio Display.

The difference is there, I can 100% see it, but is the difference big enough to justify the price difference? That will all depends?

Let's say 1440p display resolution on a 5k native resolution screen, which is full 2x retina, let's say that's 100% in terms of display resolution, I'd say the Dell is pretty close, around 90% (perceived), would you pay more than twice the price for 10% the difference? Some people will, because they need the extra 10% to do their job, or they can afford the price difference they just don't care; then some people think it's a rip off, because it's only 10% difference and they don't need the extra resolution, and the 10% makes no difference to their life. Also another key point is, 4k display looks really good when scaled, but once you go 5k, you just know the difference, and you wouldn't want to go back again. So if you want to stick with 4k, don't buy a 5k display.

Reason I went from 5k to 4k to 5k; My LG 5k was first gen, and it had developed burn ins, LG wouldn't do anything unless I can proof my purchase, I just couldn't find my receipt anywhere, from that point I told myself I wouldn't buy an LG display ever again. Then got the Dell, it was pretty good, as I mentioned, the difference was there, it took me good few days to get used to it, but once I did, the Dell is a brilliant display (I can only imagine the current gen is even better), though I still miss a 5K display. And now ASD has announced, I ordered pre launch.

 

[Lucagfc]

I went from LG 5k to U2720Q (previous gen) and now an Apple Studio Display.

The difference is there, I can 100% see it, but is the difference big enough to justify the price difference? That will all depends?

Let's say 1440p display resolution on a 5k native resolution screen, which is full 2x retina, let's say that's 100% in terms of display resolution, I'd say the Dell is pretty close, around 90% (perceived), would you pay more than twice the price for 10% the difference? Some people will, because they need the extra 10% to do their job, or they can afford the price difference they just don't care; then some people think it's a rip off, because it's only 10% difference and they don't need the extra resolution, and the 10% makes no difference to their life. Also another key point is, 4k display looks really good when scaled, but once you go 5k, you just know the difference, and you wouldn't want to go back again. So if you want to stick with 4k, don't buy a 5k display.

Reason I went from 5k to 4k to 5k; My LG 5k was first gen, and it had developed burn ins, LG wouldn't do anything unless I can proof my purchase, I just couldn't find my receipt anywhere, from that point I told myself I wouldn't buy an LG display ever again. Then got the Dell, it was pretty good, as I mentioned, the difference was there, it took me good few days to get used to it, but once I did, the Dell is a brilliant display (I can only imagine the current gen is even better), though I still miss a 5K display. And now ASD has announced, I ordered pre launch.

Thanks for the reply! I came from a 5k iMac and now I have a 16" 2021 MBP that are both native retina with a really good display. Based on your experience it seems that I have to go with the LG 5k (Studio display is too expensive for me).

 

[greenbreadmmm]

Hello Everyone. I can't decide between going with this Dell or pay extra money to get the LG 5k. Anyone has tried both this two model and can explain me how much difference makes the native 5k resolution of the LG vs the 4k scaled Dell? Thank you!

I thought for sure I’d go crazy dropping to 4k after 5+ yeas of 5k and it was easy peasy to adjust.

I am graphic designer and clarity and workspace is key to my monitor useage. I freakin love this Dell!

I could be mistaken but I think the dell has better colors and deeper blacks, just less pixel density. So thats another factor.

Also 2x the price for LG, unsure if worth it.

Tho if you have the money and really want 5k, do it!

 

[Lucagfc]

I thought for sure I’d go crazy dropping to 4k after 5+ yeas of 5k and it was easy peasy to adjust.

I am graphic designer and clarity and workspace is key to my monitor useage. I freakin love this Dell!

I could be mistaken but I think the dell has better colors and deeper blacks, just less pixel density. So thats another factor.

Also 2x the price for LG, unsure if worth it.

Tho if you have the money and really want 5k, do it!

For me the price difference is:
Dell 850€
LG 5k 1250€

 

[greenbreadmmm]

For me the price difference is:
Dell 850€
LG 5k 1250€

Hmm, thats a bit different.

My overarching thought would be - I noticed a pretty big leap in color reproduction from 5k iMac to Dell and if the LG has worse color and contrast than the iMac I came from (due to glass vs matte screen) Then it’s pretty substantial.

Truly comes down to PPI vs color accuracy. What would benefit your workflow more?

 

[Lucagfc]

Hmm, thats a bit different.

My overarching thought would be - I noticed a pretty big leap in color reproduction from 5k iMac to Dell and if the LG has worse color and contrast than the iMac I came from (due to glass vs matte screen) Then it’s pretty substantial.

Truly comes down to PPI vs color accuracy. What would benefit your workflow more?

I’m an app developer. I do a lot of interface but I have to try it on the actual device to be sure of the result. This is true on the iMac and MacBook also.

 

[zacheryjensen]

Hello Everyone. I can't decide between going with this Dell or pay extra money to get the LG 5k. Anyone has tried both this two model and can explain me how much difference makes the native 5k resolution of the LG vs the 4k scaled Dell? Thank you!

I sit here with an LG 21.5" 4k display, very high DPI next to a 27" 4k display. I am very much a fan of retina displays and appreciate the added sharpness as I work with text all day. I tend to follow general ergonomic recommendations and do not push my monitor very far back from where I sit (it's bad for eye strain). I configure the 27" 4k display to "appear like 2560x1440".

So basically what I'm saying is, if the 4k 27" class of display was substantially worse than the 5k 27" class, it would be easily visible to me either due to looking at a much higher res. display and seeing the direct comparison constantly or simple seeing it because it's only about 18" away from me.

I have no issues with this 4k display. If I inspect closely then yes, I can see slightly more jagged edges and such than the higher DPI display next to it. But in practical sitting positions it looks like a retina display.

I can't speak to the quality of the Dell under discussion specifically, but, at least the 27" 4k version should look just fine in the larger context of high resolution displays. It's still a relatively high DPI.

My experience with Dell displays in general has been overwhelmingly positive. They are some of the most reliable displays I've ever used and I've used many brands. The second monitor I mentioned is an LG, amongst several I've owned and a few more I've researched I can find one consistency: they all have stupid functional problems that are inexcusable for their price point. For example, while my 22" LG looks amazing in sharpness terms, its backlight is so intensely blue shifted that accurate color is impossible no matter what I do for calibration. It has a faint but annoying buzz that emits from the back when it's not on. It frequently just doesn't turn on when the computer wakes up, something I was able to reproduce with a Windows machine so it's not just some macOS bug.

Continuing on with LG issues, I also have the infamous LG 5k2k ultrawide (34WK95U-W) and that display... it should've been amazing, but, instead it had random issues waking up on Thunderbolt forcing a fully power cycle and the worst burn-in I've seen on any computer display in 20 years. The LG 5k has similar known issues.

If I was only choosing between the LG 5k and this Dell, it would be no contest. I would choose the Dell. There is more to a display than the panel tech, so despite often using LG panels, the only 27" 5k displays that have ever been good have been those that come straight from Apple (or possibly some of the obscure or expensive 5k displays most people have never heard of or tried and aren't really for sale anymore anyway from Dell and whatnot targeted at the color sensitive "pro office" crowd a few years back).

So bottom line, I couldn't assure you the Dell is great because I haven't seen it, but, I can assure you that it's a mistake to buy the LG monitor. Or any LG monitor for that matter.

 

[vddobrev]

For me the price difference is:
Dell 850€
LG 5k 1250€

850 Euro for the 27" or 32"?