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joevt

macrumors 604
Jun 21, 2012
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Is there a way to see if DSC is enabled?
On an Intel Mac, use AGDCDiagnose or AllRez.
I have a newer version of AllRez which may be able to get the DisplayPort DPCD registers from both the MST hub and the sink device (if there's an MST hub involved). The next thing I'll add is getting EDID and DDC/CI info across the MST hub.
 
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Dentifrice

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Aug 27, 2008
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On an Intel Mac, use AGDCDiagnose or AllRez.
I have a newer version of AllRez which may be able to get the DisplayPort DPCD registers from both the MST hub and the sink device (if there's an MST hub involved). The next thing I'll add is getting EDID and DDC/CI info across the MST hub.
Thanks!
 

Dentifrice

macrumors 6502
Aug 27, 2008
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On an Intel Mac, use AGDCDiagnose or AllRez.
I have a newer version of AllRez which may be able to get the DisplayPort DPCD registers from both the MST hub and the sink device (if there's an MST hub involved). The next thing I'll add is getting EDID and DDC/CI info across the MST hub.
Do you see something wrong with this? I only have my Dell U2723QE connected via USB-C. Lid of my MBP is closed so I supposed everything should be about the Dell. I also configured resolution priority over usb data speed.


It’s really a shame that macos doesn’t support MST… My setup would be much simpler…
 

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tmoney468

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Mar 13, 2007
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Just got my 27" a couple days ago, pretty happy with it overall. It replaced a 4k Dell I had from 2015. Nicest thing is the smaller bezels on the newer one vs my old one. Did a quick test for dead pixels and full screen color backgrounds and everything looks good. Really wanted the Apple monitor but can't justify spending 2.5x the price on it
 
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joevt

macrumors 604
Jun 21, 2012
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Do you see something wrong with this? I only have my Dell U2723QE connected via USB-C. Lid of my MBP is closed so I supposed everything should be about the Dell. I also configured resolution priority over usb data speed.

It’s really a shame that macos doesn’t support MST… My setup would be much simpler…
I don't see DSC support.
It appears that AGDCDiagnose could not read the EDID from one of your displays (something connected to port 1 - maybe it's an HDMI adapter? - actually, I think it's the built-in display). Maybe AllRez can show info for that.

Since you configured resolution priority over usb data speed, the connection to the MST hub is HBR3 x4. Need output from AllRez to see the connection link rate/width between the MST hub and the sink device (the display).

You're using an Intel GPU, but it supports HBR3, so that means you have an Ice Lake CPU/GPU? Your signature says yes, Intel 10th gen CPU. It should be able to support DSC but your MST hub doesn't support DSC. The OUI of the MST hub is zero, so it's probably not a Synaptics MST hub - unless it is and Dell is using a firmware with a zero OUI. But wait, the product page says it's supposed to support DSC... Do you need a firmware update? Or is there a setting to disable/enable DSC? Or do you need to connect a second display to get DSC feature to appear? Or maybe DSC appears if you don't prioritize resolution? There's a note that says "Based on Dell analysis of publicly available data, August 2021; applicable only to Dell 4K monitors that feature Display Stream Compression technology." which is very vague and not useful.

AGDCDiagnose doesn't show pixel info for Intel GPUs. The mode list from AllRez will indicate the output pixel information depth/format for your modern GPU. For older GPUs that use legacy display mode info, the color depth and color mode are hidden as attributes - separate from the timing mode info - I have a version of Lilu/WhateverGreen that can get and set that info (so you could switch at will between 6,8,10bpc or RGB/4:2:2) but it's still a work in progress. Apple decided to only allow the WindowServer to get/set those attributes so I have to use Lilu/WhateverGreen to get around that. I haven't checked if those attributes work with modern GPUs (the legacy GPU I'm using is Nvidia Kepler based).
 

Dentifrice

macrumors 6502
Aug 27, 2008
448
85
I don't see DSC support.
It appears that AGDCDiagnose could not read the EDID from one of your displays (something connected to port 1 - maybe it's an HDMI adapter? - actually, I think it's the built-in display). Maybe AllRez can show info for that.

Since you configured resolution priority over usb data speed, the connection to the MST hub is HBR3 x4. Need output from AllRez to see the connection link rate/width between the MST hub and the sink device (the display).

You're using an Intel GPU, but it supports HBR3, so that means you have an Ice Lake CPU/GPU? Your signature says yes, Intel 10th gen CPU. It should be able to support DSC but your MST hub doesn't support DSC. The OUI of the MST hub is zero, so it's probably not a Synaptics MST hub - unless it is and Dell is using a firmware with a zero OUI. But wait, the product page says it's supposed to support DSC... Do you need a firmware update? Or is there a setting to disable/enable DSC? Or do you need to connect a second display to get DSC feature to appear? Or maybe DSC appears if you don't prioritize resolution? There's a note that says "Based on Dell analysis of publicly available data, August 2021; applicable only to Dell 4K monitors that feature Display Stream Compression technology." which is very vague and not useful.

AGDCDiagnose doesn't show pixel info for Intel GPUs. The mode list from AllRez will indicate the output pixel information depth/format for your modern GPU. For older GPUs that use legacy display mode info, the color depth and color mode are hidden as attributes - separate from the timing mode info - I have a version of Lilu/WhateverGreen that can get and set that info (so you could switch at will between 6,8,10bpc or RGB/4:2:2) but it's still a work in progress. Apple decided to only allow the WindowServer to get/set those attributes so I have to use Lilu/WhateverGreen to get around that. I haven't checked if those attributes work with modern GPUs (the legacy GPU I'm using is Nvidia Kepler based).
OK, so I did Allrez and AGDCDiagnose with Resolution and USB priority. Maybe you can see something.

BTW, every time I run allrez, my Dell display goes blank and I need to unplug and replug my usc-c cable to get the picture back.

I'm indeed using an Intel Ice lake. I also check to see if they were firmware uptates for my display, it doesn't seem so.
 

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  • allrez-usb.txt
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joevt

macrumors 604
Jun 21, 2012
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OK, so I did Allrez and AGDCDiagnose with Resolution and USB priority. Maybe you can see something.

BTW, every time I run allrez, my Dell display goes blank and I need to unplug and replug my usc-c cable to get the picture back.

I'm indeed using an Intel Ice lake. I also check to see if they were firmware uptates for my display, it doesn't seem so.
The screen going blank means AllRez is testing an attribute or DDC command that the display doesn't like. I'll need to test with different GPUs. You can try the old version (from the git releases) to see if it's a problem only with the new version.

All the files have the same EDID (13 occurrences) which is expected.
AGDCDiagnose_resolution.txt is similar to AGDCDiagnose_a.txt - both connect at HBR3 x4.
AGDCDiagnose_usb.txt shows a connection at HBR3 x2.

The allrez files show the same link rate/link width differences.

For some strange reason, allrez-usb.txt says the startup-timing is 10bpc while allrez-resolution.txt says 8bpc. I guess this doesn't matter.

AllRez was able to read the DPCD of both the MST hub and the sink device.

The sink device has support for DSC. I don't know how this works if the MST hub doesn't also have support for DSC? The DisplayPort 1.4 spec is not available for download, and the Linux code is hard to follow (I suspect the DisplayPort 1.4 spec is also hard to follow, but might be more informative). Can an MST hub that doesn't understand DSC just pass a DSC stream to a sink device that does support DSC?

I don't know what kind of MST device this is or exactly how MST works - for some reason, the sink device has the same link width as the MST hub's upstream connection. Maybe it's a really simple MST hub that doesn't know how to convert link width from 2 to 4 - but this doesn't matter as long as the sink device supports the same link rate (meaning that the connection between the sink device and the MST hub is not a bottleneck - in this case, the only bottleneck is the connection between the MST hub and the GPU).

The current mode in both cases is RGB 10bpc framebuffer and 8bpc output, 5K scaled down to 4K for 2560x1440 HiDPI mode, not HDR.

If the display has 4 lanes of HBR3 when prioritizing resolution, why is macOS creating 4K60 display modes only at 8bpc? Did you disconnect the display when you switched from prioritizing USB?

The following script calculates the Gbps from the timing info (only works for modern macOS GPU drivers that include bpc in the timing info) and sorts them by Gbps. The code assumes you have only one display connected (otherwise I would have to add code to the script to separate the modes of each display).
Code:
thefile="allrez-resolution.txt"
perl -nE '
	if (/{ DetailedTimingInformation = { V2 .* (\d+.\d+)MHz.*active:(\d+x\d+).*encodings\((\w+),\) bpc\((\d+),\) colorimetry\((\w+),\) dynamicrange\((\w+),\) dsc\(\d+x\d+ (\d+)bpp\)/) {
		print "Gbps:" . $1 * ($7 ? $7 : $4 * 3) / 1000.0 . " MHz:" . $1 . " active:" . $2 . " encoding:" . $3 . " bpc:" . $4 . " colorimetry" . $5 . " dynamicrange:" . $6 . " dsc:" . $7 . "\n";
	}
' "$thefile" | sort -V

You see in the results that macOS doesn't create modes greater than 12.798 Gbps.
HBR3 x2 is 12.96 Gbps
HBR2 x4 is 17.28 Gbps
HBR3 x4 is 25.92 Gbps

So in your case, you are being limited, even though you have "prioritize for resolution" selected. Try disconnecting and reconnecting the monitor to see if you can get 4K60 10bpc RGB instead of just 8bpc.
 
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sikosis

macrumors newbie
Sep 22, 2010
7
2
The default setting for usb-c prioritization is “high resolution”, that means the data transfer protocol limited in usb2. When you plugin the C cable you will be noticed by the screen popup message. Switch to “high data speed”, you will get usb 3.1 10gpbs speed for all USB-A/RJ45 Eth ports.
Actually there is ... Dell have a replacement Realtek driver on their web site for the monitor saying it's Recommended.

The Mac seems to be using driver 8153 rather than 8156. I've even seen other external devices such as the StayGo adapters having this same network failure when you use power pass-thru.

We're still investigating on how we can get the proper kernel extension installed.
 

Dentifrice

macrumors 6502
Aug 27, 2008
448
85
The screen going blank means AllRez is testing an attribute or DDC command that the display doesn't like. I'll need to test with different GPUs. You can try the old version (from the git releases) to see if it's a problem only with the new version.

All the files have the same EDID (13 occurrences) which is expected.
AGDCDiagnose_resolution.txt is similar to AGDCDiagnose_a.txt - both connect at HBR3 x4.
AGDCDiagnose_usb.txt shows a connection at HBR3 x2.

The allrez files show the same link rate/link width differences.

For some strange reason, allrez-usb.txt says the startup-timing is 10bpc while allrez-resolution.txt says 8bpc. I guess this doesn't matter.

AllRez was able to read the DPCD of both the MST hub and the sink device.

The sink device has support for DSC. I don't know how this works if the MST hub doesn't also have support for DSC? The DisplayPort 1.4 spec is not available for download, and the Linux code is hard to follow (I suspect the DisplayPort 1.4 spec is also hard to follow, but might be more informative). Can an MST hub that doesn't understand DSC just pass a DSC stream to a sink device that does support DSC?

I don't know what kind of MST device this is or exactly how MST works - for some reason, the sink device has the same link width as the MST hub's upstream connection. Maybe it's a really simple MST hub that doesn't know how to convert link width from 2 to 4 - but this doesn't matter as long as the sink device supports the same link rate (meaning that the connection between the sink device and the MST hub is not a bottleneck - in this case, the only bottleneck is the connection between the MST hub and the GPU).

The current mode in both cases is RGB 10bpc framebuffer and 8bpc output, 5K scaled down to 4K for 2560x1440 HiDPI mode, not HDR.

If the display has 4 lanes of HBR3 when prioritizing resolution, why is macOS creating 4K60 display modes only at 8bpc? Did you disconnect the display when you switched from prioritizing USB?

The following script calculates the Gbps from the timing info (only works for modern macOS GPU drivers that include bpc in the timing info) and sorts them by Gbps. The code assumes you have only one display connected (otherwise I would have to add code to the script to separate the modes of each display).
Code:
thefile="allrez-resolution.txt"
perl -nE '
    if (/{ DetailedTimingInformation = { V2 .* (\d+.\d+)MHz.*active:(\d+x\d+).*encodings\((\w+),\) bpc\((\d+),\) colorimetry\((\w+),\) dynamicrange\((\w+),\) dsc\(\d+x\d+ (\d+)bpp\)/) {
        print "Gbps:" . $1 * ($7 ? $7 : $4 * 3) / 1000.0 . " MHz:" . $1 . " active:" . $2 . " encoding:" . $3 . " bpc:" . $4 . " colorimetry" . $5 . " dynamicrange:" . $6 . " dsc:" . $7 . "\n";
    }
' "$thefile" | sort -V

You see in the results that macOS doesn't create modes greater than 12.798 Gbps.
HBR3 x2 is 12.96 Gbps
HBR2 x4 is 17.28 Gbps
HBR3 x4 is 25.92 Gbps

So in your case, you are being limited, even though you have "prioritize for resolution" selected. Try disconnecting and reconnecting the monitor to see if you can get 4K60 10bpc RGB instead of just 8bpc.
I tried running your script. I'm unable to get more than 12.798 Gbps. I disconnted the cable, tried rebooting, switch from resolution priority to usb and back to res.

I just can't get more. A lot of stuff has been installed/removed on this mac. Can a fresh install of macos help?


edit : I just tried with my PC. WIndows 10, Geforce 1080. Using the nvidia control panel, I was able to set it to 10bit
 
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joevt

macrumors 604
Jun 21, 2012
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Can a fresh install of macos help?
Probably not if it's the same version of macOS.

One interesting thing in the DPCD is that in either case, the LANE2_3_STATUS info is not set, meaning only 2 lanes are working even though max lane count is 4 in the prioritize resolution case. I don't know what having LANE2_3_STATUS as zero means with MAX_LANE_COUNT set to 4....

Actually, I didn't notice before that the LANE_COUNT_SET is 2 in both cases (I was looking for differences), so it means both cases were limited to 2 lanes of HBR3 which gives the 12.96 Gbps limit without DSC. Maybe Catalina will use DSC to allow 10bpc?

Maybe there's a problem with the cable between the GPU and the display?

Did you try disconnecting the display power cable?

Another thing: the AGDCDiagnose for the prioritize resolution case does have LANE_COUNT_SET set to 4, so something different happened between then and the time AllRez produced it's output. Maybe it's related to your screen going black? I would try with the older version of AllRez at https://github.com/joevt/AllRez/releases/tag/v1.0
 

Dentifrice

macrumors 6502
Aug 27, 2008
448
85
Probably not if it's the same version of macOS.

One interesting thing in the DPCD is that in either case, the LANE2_3_STATUS info is not set, meaning only 2 lanes are working even though max lane count is 4 in the prioritize resolution case. I don't know what having LANE2_3_STATUS as zero means with MAX_LANE_COUNT set to 4....

Actually, I didn't notice before that the LANE_COUNT_SET is 2 in both cases (I was looking for differences), so it means both cases were limited to 2 lanes of HBR3 which gives the 12.96 Gbps limit without DSC. Maybe Catalina will use DSC to allow 10bpc?

Maybe there's a problem with the cable between the GPU and the display?

Did you try disconnecting the display power cable?

Another thing: the AGDCDiagnose for the prioritize resolution case does have LANE_COUNT_SET set to 4, so something different happened between then and the time AllRez produced it's output. Maybe it's related to your screen going black? I would try with the older version of AllRez at https://github.com/joevt/AllRez/releases/tag/v1.0
It's the original cable from Dell. IDK if there is a problem. One thing to note is that I love the picture quality of this display so much, I ordered the 32 inches version too (U3223QE) which I should receive next week. We'll be able to campare.

I just disconnected the power cable of the monitor. I then ran the older version of AllRez (no blank screen this time). I also did AGDCDiagnose.

Both commands were run with resolution priority. Also, while doing the commands, I had another monitor connected. I can do it again without it connected if you want.
 

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joevt

macrumors 604
Jun 21, 2012
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It's the original cable from Dell. IDK if there is a problem. One thing to note is that I love the picture quality of this display so much, I ordered the 32 inches version too (U3223QE) which I should receive next week. We'll be able to campare.

I just disconnected the power cable of the monitor. I then ran the older version of AllRez (no blank screen this time). I also did AGDCDiagnose.

Both commands were run with resolution priority. Also, while doing the commands, I had another monitor connected. I can do it again without it connected if you want.
The new AGDCDiagnose doesn't show an MST hub for the display anymore (DWN_STRM_PORT_PRESENT and MSTM_CAP are now zero). Did you do something to disable MST?
The new AGDCDiagnose shows DSC support but it's not being used. The link rate is HBR2 x4 which is better than HBR3 x2 and should allow 4K60 10bpc without DSC.
AllRez shows you are now using 4K60 10bpc (2560x1440 HiDPI mode scaled down to 4K) which is a 15.9975 Gbps mode.
I guess it might be interesting to see if the new AllRez shows the same info (it should - except the new AllRez is setup to report a lower range of DPCD registers for speeding up testing).
 

Dentifrice

macrumors 6502
Aug 27, 2008
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The new AGDCDiagnose doesn't show an MST hub for the display anymore (DWN_STRM_PORT_PRESENT and MSTM_CAP are now zero). Did you do something to disable MST?
The new AGDCDiagnose shows DSC support but it's not being used. The link rate is HBR2 x4 which is better than HBR3 x2 and should allow 4K60 10bpc without DSC.
AllRez shows you are now using 4K60 10bpc (2560x1440 HiDPI mode scaled down to 4K) which is a 15.9975 Gbps mode.
I guess it might be interesting to see if the new AllRez shows the same info (it should - except the new AllRez is setup to report a lower range of DPCD registers for speeding up testing).
yes! I disabled MST in the settings, sorry I totally forgot with all the things I tested.

So enabling MST affects somehow. I'll try the new Allrez later today

edit : added new allrez
 

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Dentifrice

macrumors 6502
Aug 27, 2008
448
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Can anyone explains me how to use HDR?

You can enable HDR on the monitor. Then you can enable it in MacOS display settings. How all this works? Do I need to enable both? When enabled in macos, does it means the image is always HDR? Not just with HDR content?

When I enable it in macOS, the colors are a little washed out. The blacks are more grey. Shouldn't it be the opposite?

I edit photos in Lightroom so I need color accuracy. In that case I don't think using HDR would be a good idea, right?

Is there a way to keep everything SDR except when playing HDR content?
 

joevt

macrumors 604
Jun 21, 2012
6,974
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yes! I disabled MST in the settings, sorry I totally forgot with all the things I tested.

So enabling MST affects somehow. I'll try the new Allrez later today

edit : added new allrez
Well, ok then. I guess disabling MST is the way to go for macOS in this case to avoid an HBR3 x2 limit (though there was that first AGDCDiagnose that said you were having a proper HBR3 x4 connection with MST that we haven't reproduced).
The new AllRez matches the info from the previous one. Did the screen go black again?
The info from DDC/CI of your VA32AQ display says it's been in use for 4672 hours (one hour since the last AllRez output you posted). The U2723QE doesn't have a Display Usage Time. My Apple 30" Cinema Display from 2005 says it's been in use for 62211 hours - I wonder if the time will wrap around to zero when it gets to 65536?
 

joevt

macrumors 604
Jun 21, 2012
6,974
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Can anyone explains me how to use HDR?

You can enable HDR on the monitor. Then you can enable it in MacOS display settings. How all this works? Do I need to enable both? When enabled in macos, does it means the image is always HDR? Not just with HDR content?

When I enable it in macOS, the colors are a little washed out. The blacks are more grey. Shouldn't it be the opposite?

I edit photos in Lightroom so I need color accuracy. In that case I don't think using HDR would be a good idea, right?

Is there a way to keep everything SDR except when playing HDR content?
HDR and macOS are a mystery to me. It should not be enabled for doing ordinary macOS stuff. It should work with HDR videos from YouTube and games that support HDR.
For Lightroom and any other apps, I guess you need to know if they've been updated to support HDR.
 
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Dentifrice

macrumors 6502
Aug 27, 2008
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Well, ok then. I guess disabling MST is the way to go for macOS in this case to avoid an HBR3 x2 limit (though there was that first AGDCDiagnose that said you were having a proper HBR3 x4 connection with MST that we haven't reproduced).
The new AllRez matches the info from the previous one. Did the screen go black again?
The info from DDC/CI of your VA32AQ display says it's been in use for 4672 hours (one hour since the last AllRez output you posted). The U2723QE doesn't have a Display Usage Time. My Apple 30" Cinema Display from 2005 says it's been in use for 62211 hours - I wonder if the time will wrap around to zero when it gets to 65536?
I have no idea how I got HBR3 x 4 at first. I may have to try changing settings.

The screen didn’t go black this time with the new allrez

I think your screen, when going over 65536, will tranform into a new creature ?
 

bodhisattva1123

macrumors member
Sep 15, 2019
53
7
everywhere
Resolution too low IMO. The 27" is only 1440p and ~ 106ppi, nowhere close to retina.

The 32 (31.5") is a little better at ~ 140ppi.

Neither close to 180ppi+ of LG 4k/5k models.

For $700, between the low ppi and low brightness these monitors don't make sense at all to me. I'd personally give up 3 inches and get the 24" LG Ultrafine 4k for $700 (maybe $600 on sale)
what lg 27 or 32 4k has a 180 ppi?
 

bodhisattva1123

macrumors member
Sep 15, 2019
53
7
everywhere
I have the 32, has anyone compared it with the 27? Is the 27 noticeably sharper?

Also when I first got this monitor I thought it looked like trash. It was too harsh and too blue. Spent a long time messing with all the settings. Turn the color temp setting all the way down to 500, brightness max, contrast max, sharpness 0. Use the dell color setting on the mac, hdr looks fake so I turned that off also. Ended up with a monitor that looks much closer to my macbook pro 16 than it did out of the box.
 

enricoclaudio

macrumors 6502a
Jun 5, 2017
869
1,344
what lg 27 or 32 4k has a 180 ppi?
None. 27” 4K has 163 PPI and 32” 4K has 138 PPI
did you have a chance to compare the 27 to 32? Would you say there would be a noticeable sharpness difference in the 27?
I have a LG 27UK650 4K and a LG 32UN880-B 4K. Even that the 27” has more PPI than the 32”, the 32” looks sharper to my eyes but not as sharp as the ASD. This is with the LGs scaled at 2560x1440.
 

bodhisattva1123

macrumors member
Sep 15, 2019
53
7
everywhere
None. 27” 4K has 163 PPI and 32” 4K has 138 PPI

I have a LG 27UK650 4K and a LG 32UN880-B 4K. Even that the 27” has more PPI than the 32”, the 32” looks sharper to my eyes but not as sharp as the ASD. This is with the LGs scaled at 2560x1440.
yea that's what I'm thinking would be the case as well
 
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