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m1maverick

macrumors 65816
Nov 22, 2020
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EDIT: Realized this is in the PowerPC thread - even so, rebuttals to points 1, 2, and 4 all stand. And the more important point is that people buying PowerPC Macs are either doing so for very niche use cases, in which case these old Macs are better than anything new, or they are doing them as hobbyists or collectors, in which case none of this matters.
However, the original posting wasn't to this web site, let alone forum, and I suspect the target audience of the authors of this list aren't the participants (or those like them) of this forum (PPC or Early Intel).
 
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rampancy

macrumors 6502a
Jul 22, 2002
741
999
Sidebar: the 2002–2009 BSG canon is absolutely brilliant script and story writing, with a truly legendary cast of both past and future.

I‘ve watched the entire series, in order (yes, this means watching Caprica first!) thrice. I may do so again when autumn returns.

BSG was an absolute triumph of SFF long-form narrative storytelling; in my humble opinion it belongs right up there in that rareified space occupied by Space: Above and Beyond and Babylon 5.

It's a shame the franchise fizzled out with Blood and Chrome. I never got the chance to try out Caprica; I think at the time I thought of it as quite odd, but having enjoyed Westworld (yes, especially Season 3 and 4, which everyone seemed to hate), I think I'd actually like Caprica a lot.
 
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theorist9

macrumors 68040
May 28, 2015
3,845
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Others have probably made this point, but the article is overly simplistic, since it doesn't apply to late-model Macs. After having 4 new Macs, I bought a used one for the first time earlier this year, and it's been great. It's a 27" 2019 i9 iMac. It was in mint condition, is still fully supported by Apple (can run Ventura, though I'm still using Monterey), and even came with AppleCare+.

Plus the article ignores use cases that require an older Mac. I've kept my 2014 MBP in part because it's the only way I can load Audible audiobooks onto my iPod Nano. I can't do that with my 2019 machine.
 

m1maverick

macrumors 65816
Nov 22, 2020
1,368
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BSG was an absolute triumph of SFF long-form narrative storytelling; in my humble opinion it belongs right up there in that rareified space occupied by Space: Above and Beyond and Babylon 5.

It's a shame the franchise fizzled out with Blood and Chrome. I never got the chance to try out Caprica; I think at the time I thought of it as quite odd, but having enjoyed Westworld (yes, especially Season 3 and 4, which everyone seemed to hate), I think I'd actually like Caprica a lot.
What is BSG?
 

Dismayed

macrumors member
Apr 30, 2022
35
40
I bought my mid-2010 Mac Pro used about 10 years ago, and it is still running. I did convert it to a Win 10 machine, though, once Apple dropped OS support. I'll retire it when the M3 Mac Studio launches.
 

TheShortTimer

macrumors 68040
Mar 27, 2017
3,249
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London, UK
BSG was an absolute triumph of SFF long-form narrative storytelling; in my humble opinion it belongs right up there in that rareified space occupied by Space: Above and Beyond and Babylon 5.

Ronald D. Moore was one of the leading lights who made Trek under Rick Berman's helm so great - particularly what I regard as the magnum opus of the Berman era: DS9, which I continue to rewatch and probably always will. Of the epic Voyager two-part episode Year of Hell, Moore said that the series should've adopted that darker, gritty style from the very start and it's evident that he basically took that concept to Universal and they green-lit it.

Someone in the P2P community was generous enough to torrent to me the entire Babylon 5 run in its original 4:3 aspect ratio (not the recent HBO Max remasters, these were standard def versions). For those who are not aware of why this is significant, have a read of this fan page which discusses the problematic history of Babylon 5's DVD masters.

It's a shame the franchise fizzled out with Blood and Chrome.

Yeah, I really enjoyed Blood and Chrome and it's a shame that the brass at Universal didn't pick it up for a series. It would've served as a great companion piece chronicling Adama's earlier years that illustrates the path which made him the consummate military figure that we know.

I never got the chance to try out Caprica; I think at the time I thought of it as quite odd, but having enjoyed Westworld (yes, especially Season 3 and 4, which everyone seemed to hate), I think I'd actually like Caprica a lot.

Likewise. I've not watched Caprica and I probably should. All this of these posts about BSG:R have triggered my desire to watch it anew. I think I'll treat myself to the Blu-rays. :D

Battlestar Galactica

Or BSG:R (reimagined) to differentiate it from the earlier Glen A. Larson incarnation. :)
 
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What did he steal? :D

It’s Harlan Ellison’s coining, not my own, but this passage ought to summarize it.

Over the years, Larson was accused repeatedly of rushing out superficially imagined knock-offs (many being their own exhibits) of what was already big at that moment. For example, unfortunately, the original Battlestar Galactica was Larson kifing off the popularity of Star Wars. Or, he’d altogether plagiarize scripts (as with The Rockford Files). Or, say Automan indisputably cribbing Tron released just a year before.

Here’s another good summary:

Writer Harlan Ellison, in a 1996 book about his Star Trek teleplay for the famous episode “City on the Edge of Forever,” infamously called him “Glen Larceny,” accusing him of using movie concepts for his TV shows.

It often has been noted that Battlestar premiered soon after Star Wars, that Alias Smith & Jones arrived shortly after Butch Cassidy & the Sundance Kid and that the setups for McCloud and B.J. and The Bear bore similarities to the Clint Eastwood films Coogan’s Bluff and Every Which Way But Loose, respectively.

“Larson is undeniably a controversial figure in TV history because of his reputation for producing video facsimiles of popular films, but scholars, fans and critics should also consider that ‘similarity’ is the name of the game in the fast world of TV productions,” John Kenneth Muir wrote in his 2005 book, An Analytical Guide to Television’s Battlestar Galactica. “Shows are frequently purchased, produced and promoted by networks not for their differences from popular productions, but because of their similarities.”

That said, I’m glad BSG exists, but I’m much more glad Ronald D. Moore breathed a soul into the body-shell which the original desperately needed to make it what it deserved to be. So much so, I’d almost want to see whether Moore could have done his magic with, say, Knight Rider, or better yet, something more deserving of Automan than the half-hearted, 2013 production of Almost Human by J.J. Abrams.
 

Dronecatcher

macrumors 603
Jun 17, 2014
5,244
7,880
Lincolnshire, UK
That said, I’m glad BSG exists, but I’m much more glad Ronald D. Moore breathed a soul into the body-shell which the original desperately needed to make it what it deserved to be.
I'd love the same treatment to be applied to Blake's 7 - which when you stripped back the flimsy FX and hammy acting, had a soul crushing, bleak depiction of our future (which already is becoming manifest.)

I guess it must've been a 70s thing but whilst the US offered hope and deliverance with Star Wars/Trek, the UK offered "if you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever" with Blake's 7.

Then of course, there was the last episode, delivered in late December, where all our heroes were gunned down - happy Xmas!
 

PowerPC Punk

macrumors member
Original poster
May 22, 2020
57
44
The computing industry is getting like the 'Arms Race'..there's always someone coming out with something better.

Don't buy a second hand Mac,
Steal a new one instead!!!
Fanx, that´s the solution !
But be careful, you may not get the AppleCare+ Steal plan
or an AppleCare Protection Steal Plan.

PowerPC Punk
 

TheShortTimer

macrumors 68040
Mar 27, 2017
3,249
5,639
London, UK
It’s Harlan Ellison’s coining, not my own, but this passage ought to summarize it.

I've long known that plagiarism is commonplace within the entertainment industry but wow.

Over the years, Larson was accused repeatedly of rushing out superficially imagined knock-offs (many being their own exhibits) of what was already big at that moment. For example, unfortunately, the original Battlestar Galactica was Larson kifing off the popularity of Star Wars. Or, he’d altogether plagiarize scripts (as with The Rockford Files). Or, say Automan indisputably cribbing Tron released just a year before.

Here’s another good summary:

Come to think of it, Knight Rider essentially repackaged James Bond for U.S. network TV. A new - and fleeting love interest is routinely introduced whenever Michael meets an attractive (and predictably available) woman. Devon Miles serves as a version of 'M' - as does Bonnie/April in a variation of the 'Q' role combined with elements of Moneypenny.

Buck Rogers bears almost no resemblance to the source material beyond the time travel aspect - and as with the original BSG, was an attempt by Larson to cash in on the Sci-fi bandwagon that had emerged in the wake of Star Wars breaking box office records. The characters of Theo and Twiki are embarrassing pastiches of R2D2 and C-3PO.

That said, I’m glad BSG exists, but I’m much more glad Ronald D. Moore breathed a soul into the body-shell which the original desperately needed to make it what it deserved to be.

As a child, I owned a pirate VHS copy of BSG: the Movie and watched it till the tape wore out and snapped. I'm still partial to watching that, along with Saga of a Star World and that sole, reasonably decent episode of Galactica 1980 but so much of the Larson incarnation is cringe worthy - in particular the representation of female characters. There's a noticeable shift in the writing on that front but it feels like an afterthought of "Oh, we forgot to give them non-passive roles!"

I agree with you. Moore's BSG is a brave, bold and adult drama. It succeeds in fulfilling the execution of an excellent premise: the character study of desperate people, struggling to survive and hold onto hope and their humanity amidst insurmountable adversities. It's what the show should've been in the first place but I doubt U.S. network TV brass in the 1970s would've been receptive to something so daring - or that Larson would ever have pulled off that level of writing.

So much so, I’d almost want to see whether Moore could have done his magic with, say, Knight Rider, or better yet, something more deserving of Automan than the half-hearted, 2013 production of Almost Human by J.J. Abrams.

Automan, I remember from the 80s but I never saw Almost Human.

I guess it must've been a 70s thing but whilst the US offered hope and deliverance with Star Wars/Trek, the UK offered "if you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever" with Blake's 7.

The US also offered downbeat narratives - Soylent Green's storyline is grim and its closing reveal, even grimmer. Beneath the Planet of the Apes concludes with the most depressing outcome imaginable. A Boy and His Dog, Silent Running and Rollerball are also really gloomy. There's many, many more! Arguably, a contributor to the success of Star Wars in 1977 was its relatively upbeat tone that broke from this nihilism.

Then of course, there was the last episode, delivered in late December, where all our heroes were gunned down - happy Xmas!

Spoiler alert!

But be careful, you may not get the AppleCare+ Steal plan
or an AppleCare Protection Steal Plan.

Basically an extended warranty plan. I didn't bother with it. How many of you have - and did you find it to be a worthwhile purchase? Just curious.
 
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Dronecatcher

macrumors 603
Jun 17, 2014
5,244
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Lincolnshire, UK
he US also offered downbeat narratives - Soylent Green's storyline is grim and its closing reveal, even grimmer. Beneath the Planet of the Apes concludes with the most depressing outcome imaginable.
Absolutely - some brilliant dystopian films came out in the 70s (don't forget Colossus: The Forbin Project and Andromeda Strain), guess I was drawing a distinction to tv aimed primarily at kids - the first episode of B7 sees the central hero being tortured, brainwashed and eventually framed and incarcerated for being a pedophile....something that luckily went straight over my 8 year old head!
 
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I've long known that plagiarism is commonplace within the entertainment industry but wow.

GLEN LARCENY. :D

Come to think of it, Knight Rider essentially repackaged James Bond for U.S. network TV. A new - and fleeting love interest is routinely introduced whenever Michael meets an attractive (and predictably available) woman. Devon Miles serves as a version of 'M' - as does Bonnie/April in a variation of the 'Q' role combined with elements of Moneypenny.

Wow, I hadn’t drawn that link, but there you go. The only difference is he didn’t work for the government, but for a private interest (how American can you get?).

Buck Rogers bears almost no resemblance to the source material beyond the time travel aspect - and as with the original BSG, was an attempt by Larson to cash in on the Sci-fi bandwagon that had emerged in the wake of Star Wars breaking box office records. The characters of Theo and Twiki are embarrassing pastiches of R2D2 and C-3PO.

BEE-DA-BEE-DA-BEE-DA-BEEP… BUCK… 🤦‍♀️

It was Mel Blanc’s lowest point.

As a child, I owned a pirate VHS copy of BSG: the Movie and watched it till the tape wore out and snapped. I'm still partial to watching that, along with Saga of a Star World and that sole, reasonably decent episode of Galactica 1980 but so much of the Larson incarnation is cringe worthy - in particular the representation of female characters. There's a noticeable shift in the writing on that front but it feels like an afterthought of "Oh, we forgot to give them non-passive roles!"

I agree with you. Moore's BSG is a brave, bold and adult drama. It succeeds in fulfilling the execution of an excellent premise: the character study of desperate people, struggling to survive and hold onto hope and their humanity amidst insurmountable adversities. It's what the show should've been in the first place but I doubt U.S. network TV brass in the 1970s would've been receptive to something so daring - or that Larson would ever have pulled off that level of writing.

As a kid, I never parsed that BSG was about a desperate people so much as people in the future living on a big battleship fighting metal androids. Of course, maybe it wasn’t the future at all! :D


Automan, I remember from the 80s but I never saw Almost Human.

With exception to Lost, I went through all of Abrams’ TV series (which weren’t the silly stuff like that roadies one or that comedy set in NYC), paying especial care to the ones which were cancelled after a single season. Some had real promise. Almost Human was one of them. Others, like Believe, felt like a re-tread. Revolution was a train wreck, but it had Giancarlo Esposito, who raises the bar for everything which he gets cast as villain.


Basically an extended warranty plan. I didn't bother with it. How many of you have - and did you find it to be a worthwhile purchase? Just curious.

I bought it twice. It came in useful once, late in the third year. Since 2011, I haven’t bothered.
 
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mortlocli

macrumors 6502a
Feb 23, 2020
729
665
I've long known that plagiarism is commonplace within the entertainment industry but wow.



Come to think of it, Knight Rider essentially repackaged James Bond for U.S. network TV. A new - and fleeting love interest is routinely introduced whenever Michael meets an attractive (and predictably available) woman. Devon Miles serves as a version of 'M' - as does Bonnie/April in a variation of the 'Q' role combined with elements of Moneypenny.

Buck Rogers bears almost no resemblance to the source material beyond the time travel aspect - and as with the original BSG, was an attempt by Larson to cash in on the Sci-fi bandwagon that had emerged in the wake of Star Wars breaking box office records. The characters of Theo and Twiki are embarrassing pastiches of R2D2 and C-3PO.



As a child, I owned a pirate VHS copy of BSG: the Movie and watched it till the tape wore out and snapped. I'm still partial to watching that, along with Saga of a Star World and that sole, reasonably decent episode of Galactica 1980 but so much of the Larson incarnation is cringe worthy - in particular the representation of female characters. There's a noticeable shift in the writing on that front but it feels like an afterthought of "Oh, we forgot to give them non-passive roles!"

I agree with you. Moore's BSG is a brave, bold and adult drama. It succeeds in fulfilling the execution of an excellent premise: the character study of desperate people, struggling to survive and hold onto hope and their humanity amidst insurmountable adversities. It's what the show should've been in the first place but I doubt U.S. network TV brass in the 1970s would've been receptive to something so daring - or that Larson would ever have pulled off that level of writing.



Automan, I remember from the 80s but I never saw Almost Human.



The US also offered downbeat narratives - Soylent Green's storyline is grim and its closing reveal, even grimmer. Beneath the Planet of the Apes concludes with the most depressing outcome imaginable. A Boy and His Dog, Silent Running and Rollerball are also really gloomy. There's many, many more! Arguably, a contributor to the success of Star Wars in 1977 was its relatively upbeat tone that broke from this nihilism.



Spoiler alert!



Basically an extended warranty plan. I didn't bother with it. How many of you have - and did you find it to be a worthwhile purchase? Just curious.
I've always thought it some wot amusing when they offer an 'extended warranty' plan.
Isn't that an indication of how much faith they have in their product..or wot?

Are they saying - you're gonna need this cos we sell crap or are they saying - you really don't need this but we're gonna make more money outta ya.
 

TheShortTimer

macrumors 68040
Mar 27, 2017
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Are they saying - you're gonna need this cos we sell crap or are they saying - you really don't need this but we're gonna make more money outta ya.

No. AppleCare, as with any add-on warranty, is an additional revenue stream.

Yes. It's definitely the latter, going on the personal experience of my horrible time in retail where I was forced to do everything that I could browbeat customers into taking the extended warranty plan when they made a purchase - even on the cheapest personal stereos where the plan would exceed the item's cost.

The plan information would appear on the point-of-sale terminal with an option to select the length of protection: 1 year, 3 years, 5 years and we even had training seminars to instruct us on the best techniques to push this supposed money saving deal onto our victims the public. Not a phase of my life that I'm proud of but it was short-lived and I avoided observing this contractual obligation as much as possible.
 

mortlocli

macrumors 6502a
Feb 23, 2020
729
665
No. AppleCare, as with any add-on warranty, is an additional revenue stream.
Thing is if the sales folks offer an extended warranty, and you respond with: "At that price shouldn't this thing last more than 12 months?" - wonder wot they'd say?

I'm bringing into question the marketing ploy of warranties - no matter the product, if they guarantee something for say 12 months, is that really saying they have faith in their product for only that long..and are they in a way saying, after which you need to buy a new one.?

They're not (of course not), but in a way it can be questioned like that.
Tis a marketing factor of how things are perceived.
 
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mortlocli

macrumors 6502a
Feb 23, 2020
729
665
Yes. It's definitely the latter, going on the personal experience of my horrible time in retail where I was forced to do everything that I could browbeat customers into taking the extended warranty plan when they made a purchase - even on the cheapest personal stereos where the plan would exceed the item's cost.

The plan information would appear on the point-of-sale terminal with an option to select the length of protection: 1 year, 3 years, 5 years and we even had training seminars to instruct us on the best techniques to push this supposed money saving deal onto our victims the public. Not a phase of my life that I'm proud of but it was short-lived and I avoided observing this contractual obligation as much as possible.
Jeepers...it's even worse than I thought
 
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m1maverick

macrumors 65816
Nov 22, 2020
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Thing is if the sales folks offer an extended warranty, and you respond with: "At that price shouldn't this thing last more than 12 months?" - wonder wot they'd say?
I recall this happening when my dad was purchasing a VCR. The salesman made a big deal about how it was a quality device and worth the extra money. When my dad decided to purchase it the warranty came up. To which my dad responded with something to the effect: You just got done telling me how this was a quality, reliable device and now you're telling me it's a piece of junk by offering me an extended warranty?
 

TheShortTimer

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Mar 27, 2017
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London, UK
Jeepers...it's even worse than I thought

I only summarised. :D

Thing is if the sales folks offer an extended warranty, and you respond with: "At that price shouldn't this thing last more than 12 months?" - wonder wot they'd say?

The average layperson wouldn't ask that question because they seldom possessed that level of awareness and we were encouraged to keep everything as simple as possible. For example, I remember being gently warned by a colleague after they witnessed me explaining the benefits of microswitches in a gaming controller. Instead, I should just tell the customer that they were "better because they cost more" and leave it there.

In the rare event that someone did pose that question, I suppose the comeback would've been to highlight that the policy includes protection against accidental damage and break it down that the cost equates to paying x amount of pennies every day. We were instructed not to even refer to it as an extended warranty "because that will just confuse things."

I'm bringing into question the marketing ploy of warranties - no matter the product, if they guarantee something for say 12 months, is that really saying they have faith in their product for only that long..and are they in a way saying, after which you need to buy a new one.?

When I've bought (truly) professional products, there was no mention of any extended warranty policy by the retailer or the manufacturer - which I think is very revealing about whom these ploys are targeted to - and why.

They're not (of course not), but in a way it can be questioned like that.
Tis a marketing factor of how things are perceived.

A family friend summed this up by contending that the entire premise of extended warranties can be easily unravelled by highlighting that any item worth its salt wouldn't die on you after the standard 12 months warranty has elapsed and if it cannot last at least five years then it's not worth buying in the first place because that's indicative of poor quality manufacturing.

Obviously, anyone who displayed that level of articulation and awareness was politely hurried along with their transaction without any effort at the sales spiel so that the more easily persuaded could be concentrated on.
 
This article here goes with the brainworms hack writing of the German article in the original post:

1682823937036.png

1682823989380.png


Lordt,
 
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Smartuser

macrumors regular
Oct 18, 2022
223
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I only summarised. :D

The average layperson wouldn't ask that question because they seldom possessed that level of awareness and we were encouraged to keep everything as simple as possible. For example, I remember being gently warned by a colleague after they witnessed me explaining the benefits of microswitches in a gaming controller. Instead, I should just tell the customer that they were "better because they cost more" and leave it there.

In the rare event that someone did pose that question, I suppose the comeback would've been to highlight that the policy includes protection against accidental damage and break it down that the cost equates to paying x amount of pennies every day. We were instructed not to even refer to it as an extended warranty "because that will just confuse things."

When I've bought (truly) professional products, there was no mention of any extended warranty policy by the retailer or the manufacturer - which I think is very revealing about whom these ploys are targeted to - and why.

A family friend summed this up by contending that the entire premise of extended warranties can be easily unravelled by highlighting that any item worth its salt wouldn't die on you after the standard 12 months warranty has elapsed and if it cannot last at least five years then it's not worth buying in the first place because that's indicative of poor quality manufacturing.

Obviously, anyone who displayed that level of articulation and awareness was politely hurried along with their transaction without any effort at the sales spiel so that the more easily persuaded could be concentrated on.
Your retail work experience is interesting, but different companies with different standards exist.

About "truly professional products" not having extended warranties: Last time I checked, server manufactures like HP and Oracle absolutely sold long-term support contracts. If the industry doesn't do that anymore, please let me know.

I would like to also mention that AppleCare is not just an extended warranty, but also offers support. I have received replacement batteries, instant replacements of iPads, two MBP upgrades and many more things out of it.

If someone doesn't see the value, that's absolutely fine with me. It's a personal preference and depends on many factors, such as what level of risk someone is willing to accept. Many people I respect never get AppleCare, and many others do. Personally, I always do, and for many CTO Apple products I buy it's more of a rounding error.

I've visited stores like Best Buy and others that work like what you describe many times. Apple Stores are not run like that, which is why I feel comfortable visiting them.
 
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