Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Devonthink is an overkill, its more of a research project tool that simple notes app. Its more on the MS OneNote side of things. I was looking for something closer to Apple Notes. I think Joplin is the answer for me.
It's overkill for you. I don't think I'd consider Evernote a simple notes app, either. It's an everything bucket, and it's amazing what people will throw at Evernote in terms of sheer volume and size of the notes. KeepIt is a wonderful simple notes app, but I'm looking for a tool that can handle synchronizing a larger notes set to my phone.
 
I have not seen anything about Apple Notes not handling large numbers of notes. I have around 1200 notes (some just text; many with .pdf or photos) and the only slowness I have observed is during initial sync. I read (different forum) of one person who imported 22,000 Evernote notes. I too frequently change my mind between these two apps and then waste a day switching. ?. And, while I share your sense that Evernote is more robust, I can't point at data confirming that (if you can, maybe I will switch one more time and be done with it!).

And, now I have to check out UpNote...
Boy, you're like me, and I can sympathize. I've tried everything to solve my problem, and it's costing me. I have to stop running. I don't have any data other than my own observations on how the apps I've tested sync.
 
Devonthink is an overkill, its more of a research project tool that simple notes app. Its more on the MS OneNote side of things. I was looking for something closer to Apple Notes. I think Joplin is the answer for me.
I see DevonThink as almost an alternative Finder. I've been playing with Craft and like it so far.
 
  • Like
Reactions: sgtaylor5
It's overkill for you. I don't think I'd consider Evernote a simple notes app, either. It's an everything bucket, and it's amazing what people will throw at Evernote in terms of sheer volume and size of the notes. KeepIt is a wonderful simple notes app, but I'm looking for a tool that can handle synchronizing a larger notes set to my phone.

Oh yes, I meant for me. I was looking for something simple like Apple Notes to jot things down. If I am researching something with images and pdfs yes something like Evernote, Devonthink, and OneNote is a better solution.

Whats wrong with OneNote? A lot of people seem to like it, personally I found it a bit slow in loading data

I see DevonThink as almost an alternative Finder.

how please explain?
 
As a way to get familiar with UpNote, I decided to start porting over my notes from OneNote. So far the process is going very smoothly and I'm really appreciating the clean and clear UI of UpNote.

The ease of creating internal hyperlinks from one note to another is very reminiscent of Obsidian, and allows UpNote to be a great wiki tool.

I have a multi-tiered approach to notes...
Google Keep - for short, quick notes, easy access. Longer notes later get migrated to the next level.
Joplin / SimpleNote - for longer notes where basic formatting helps readability.
OneNote - More extensive notes.

After a few short hours spent with UpNote, I can see that this is going to replace Joplin, SimpleNote, AND OneNote!
(I've transferred a few of my Joplin and SimpleNote notes as well)

I'm very excited about that. I've installed UpNote on my iMac, Windows notebooks, vintage ThinkPad, iPhone, iPad Mini, Samsung Galaxy Tab S6... super easy to set up and notes look terrific on all of those platforms.

I installed the Android version on my Lenovo Chromebook 3 and it looks and works great there too.

Was it mentioned that it is $19.99 for a perpetual license that covers all platforms!? ?

View attachment 2006860
 
Agree with you and downloaded the perpetual license version. I don’t have the volume of notes that you do, but it’s a really clean piece of software that’s worth exploring.
Thanks for the thoughtful look and recommendation.
 
Oh yes, I meant for me. I was looking for something simple like Apple Notes to jot things down. If I am researching something with images and pdfs yes something like Evernote, Devonthink, and OneNote is a better solution.

Whats wrong with OneNote? A lot of people seem to like it, personally I found it a bit slow in loading data



how please explain?
OneNote uses a form of OneDrive for sync, and in the beginning it was good. Now, it isn't good, especially on a Mac (file name requirements are looser on the Mac, and you'd have to rename some Mac documents to work with OneDrive).

Also, OneNote is far better for students who need to take class notes on a touchscreen and a pen, or creatives who think looser than structured types like myself. I prefer one type of information per note, and with OneNote, you can put many different types of media (text, audio, video) in the same note.

If I clip something off the web, I want it minimal, and just the text; with OneNote, they grab a photo of the site and then you can instantly OCR the text and copy it somewhere else. Too much work for me.

I don't like to think "better:worse", that's for higher powers to determine. It's safer for me to think "like:different". In other words, pick what works best for you.
 
wow... thanks! I've been looking all week for something beyond SimpleNote. I needed support for Windows, Mac, Android, and iOS, one-time fee, inter-note linking, and markdown. Boom! This was an immediate lifetime ($19.99 USD) purchase for me.

I currently use Craft and just tried out UpNote. I paid the $.99 to upgrade to premium so I could try out the import feature, which kind of annoyed me. Alas, it worked OK. But is it just me or can you not drag & drop notes from one folder to another? You have to right-click and move? Seems like a super basic feature that it should be able to do.

Also, when trying to create an account/login, it never pulled up KeyChain or Bitwarden which seems small but makes me question some other things. Perhaps once this app is flushed out a bit more I will take another look but I'll continue with Craft for the time being.
 
Last edited:
I currently use Craft and just tried out UpNote. I paid the $.99 to upgrade to premium so I could try out the import feature, which kind of annoyed me. Alas, it worked OK. But is it just me or can you not drag & drop notes from one folder to another? You have to right-click and move? Seems like a super basic feature that it should be able to do.

Also, when trying to create an account/login, it never pulled up KeyChain or Bitwarden which seems small but makes me question some other things. Perhaps once this app is flushed out a bit more I will take another look but I'll continue with Craft for the time being.
Glad to hear that you've found that Craft works for you. I gave it a try and it's a non-starter for me on various levels. And that's why I'm encouraged that there are so many alternatives out there with companies taking different approaches. Note taking/keeping is highly personal and having options that cater to particular needs is great.
 
OneNote uses a form of OneDrive for sync, and in the beginning it was good. Now, it isn't good, especially on a Mac (file name requirements are looser on the Mac, and you'd have to rename some Mac documents to work with OneDrive).

Also, OneNote is far better for students who need to take class notes on a touchscreen and a pen, or creatives who think looser than structured types like myself. I prefer one type of information per note, and with OneNote, you can put many different types of media (text, audio, video) in the same note.

If I clip something off the web, I want it minimal, and just the text; with OneNote, they grab a photo of the site and then you can instantly OCR the text and copy it somewhere else. Too much work for me.

I don't like to think "better:worse", that's for higher powers to determine. It's safer for me to think "like:different". In other words, pick what works best for you.
That is why I use OneNote at work. It can hold just about anything. It’s easy to send email and calender events from outlook and then take notes during meetings. I send webpage to OneNote using a Firefox plugin that has options to send a link, just the article, or a full copy of the webpage.

At home, my needs are simpler and I mainly use Apple Notes. works well on mobile, too. I have one writing project that I want to keep separate and use Bear for those notes.
 
So many people are promoting Obsidian but I just do not see the big deal, is it just because you can create links in one document to take you to the next? I appreciate its foss

OneNote uses a form of OneDrive for sync, and in the beginning it was good. Now, it isn't good, especially on a Mac (file name requirements are looser on the Mac, and you'd have to rename some Mac documents to work with OneDrive).

Also, OneNote is far better for students who need to take class notes on a touchscreen and a pen, or creatives who think looser than structured types like myself. I prefer one type of information per note, and with OneNote, you can put many different types of media (text, audio, video) in the same note.

If I clip something off the web, I want it minimal, and just the text; with OneNote, they grab a photo of the site and then you can instantly OCR the text and copy it somewhere else. Too much work for me.

I don't like to think "better:worse", that's for higher powers to determine. It's safer for me to think "like:different". In other words, pick what works best for you.

What do you like about DevonThink?
 
So many people are promoting Obsidian but I just do not see the big deal, is it just because you can create links in one document to take you to the next? I appreciate its foss



What do you like about DevonThink?
I own it! :)

I can sync to my phone and you can't really with EagleFiler. I don't have to sync everything to my phone; one can make multiple databases per subject and pick which ones to sync. Right now, I'm only syncing one database. I have a choice of sync services to use: Dropbox, CloudKit, legacy iCloud, WebDAV, CloudMe.

I can pick a document, pick the See Also and Classify Inspector and find other documents like it. Searching is more efficient than Spotlight, because it isn't in a temporary window and it includes more documents. Of course, that really means you need to include more documents in DEVONthink.

There are more ways to include documents in DEVONthink; you can import them and they stay in their original formats or you can index your documents and they stay where they are on the file system. I usually import my documents but I don't have too many. If you had hundreds of thousands of documents and needed to keep them on an external drive then indexing would be better.

If you like markdown and it's limitations can fit within the way you work with documents (and the kinds of documents you have to create), DEVONthink would work really really well. Some of my documents are too complicated for markdown, so I've figured out that Pages is a good alternative. I simply open the Pages documents in Pages instead of DEVONthink. I can do this on the phone. DEVONthink will display very nicely the first page of the document. I also use Numbers for small encrypted phone documents that need tables.

It's a better Finder alternative for me because if I look at things in icon view I can't see all of the names. If I look at things in list view I'm limited to what I'm seeing in one folder. I can move things from one folder to another easier because everything's in one place.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: rhett7660
So many people are promoting Obsidian but I just do not see the big deal, is it just because you can create links in one document to take you to the next? I appreciate its foss
I get why Obsidian is so popular among the "2nd brain" people. Of all the currently supported note-taking apps that support inter-note linking, Obsidian supports it as seamlessly as possible (UpNote is a close 2nd). This wiki-like functionality takes things to another level.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Token
After trying ALL (well, almost all) note apps in existence, and I have resigned and just use Apple Notes. Of course it can be improved – for me a more intuitive inter-linking of notes, hightlighter formatting and an evernote-like web clipper which saves the page in simplified note format would be top priorities – but it really is painless in most regards.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Whigu and GerritV
I get why Obsidian is so popular among the "2nd brain" people. Of all the currently supported note-taking apps that support inter-note linking, Obsidian supports it as seamlessly as possible (UpNote is a close 2nd). This wiki-like functionality takes things to another level.

I do not understand this wiki word linking thing. I mean if I making a guide for others its perfect, but for me, I do not see a use case for it. I can simply search the notes for what I am looking for me instead of browsing it like a website.
 
I do not understand this wiki word linking thing. I mean if I making a guide for others its perfect, but for me, I do not see a use case for it. I can simply search the notes for what I am looking for me instead of browsing it like a website.
It's a matter of how one uses their notes, and the content of their notes.

Notes/knowledgebase can range from a disconnected pile of notes (Google Keep without labels) on one side, or a tightly organized hierarchical structure (rigid outline) on the other... with a mix of both in between.

Physical hierarchal structure, simple searches, (hash)tags, and wiki-links are ways to access the information. Each has their own set of advantages and deficiencies that make any one of them insufficient as the only way to interact with the data.

Some like tagging notes so that searching for a particular tag can display notes that might not appear in the same hierarchy of information. That's helpful if one knows in advance what they're going to want to refer to in the future.

But what typically happens; a person will create a bunch of notes and tag them, for example: #recipe. But as their notes database grows, they decide that they want to additionally tag notes with the type of recipe. So they have to go back into the individual notes that are tagged with #recipe and add the new tag, #dessert, #entree, #maindish, etc.

The person also needs to know what tags exist and what they represent. That requires maintaining a "tag" index/glossary that lists the tags and an explanation for when each tag should be used.

A hierarchal structure, like an outline, helps organize information into clear categories and order... the higher up the outline structure a term appears, the more general it is. The lower in the outline tree, the more specific.

The greatest limitation of the structure is that each "atomic" element/note can only appear in one place in the outline tree... even if it is relevant in other areas of the outline.

Searching, when simple, works fine for most situations. But issues arise when more complex searches are needed. That's when support for something like RegEx is needed. That isn't something that most notes/knowledge systems support.

Even with simple searches, searching can be incomplete. One needs to know what word(s) appear in a note that they're interested in.

All of these approaches to accessing data requires some amount of premeditation when adding a new piece of information to the knowledgebase.

I have a personal knowledgebase that spans 40 years. This information spans all topics.... personal, work, technical, ministry, projects, etc. It started out as a strict hierarchical structure, but as data was added, the hierarchy no longer made sense and connections between seemingly disconnected pieces of information grew.

I make use of the hierarchical structure that most notes apps support, in addition to tags/labels, and now hyperlinks.

With hyperlinks, the connections aren't just 1 level deep as they are with searches and tags. These links can form chains that allow for greater insights/access.

Regarding wiki-linkin in Obsidian:
The wiki-linking in Obsidian is a visual way to display those connections (based on inline words/phrases, not a consciously defined tag)... it's not simply a list of results that match a search criteria but a visual map that shows the relationships between those notes. It displays the link chain so the relationship between two pieces of information can be displayed even when they are not directly connected to each other.
 
It's a matter of how one uses their notes, and the content of their notes.

Notes/knowledgebase can range from a disconnected pile of notes (Google Keep without labels) on one side, or a tightly organized hierarchical structure (rigid outline) on the other... with a mix of both in between.

Physical hierarchal structure, simple searches, (hash)tags, and wiki-links are ways to access the information. Each has their own set of advantages and deficiencies that make any one of them insufficient as the only way to interact with the data.

Some like tagging notes so that searching for a particular tag can display notes that might not appear in the same hierarchy of information. That's helpful if one knows in advance what they're going to want to refer to in the future.

But what typically happens; a person will create a bunch of notes and tag them, for example: #recipe. But as their notes database grows, they decide that they want to additionally tag notes with the type of recipe. So they have to go back into the individual notes that are tagged with #recipe and add the new tag, #dessert, #entree, #maindish, etc.

The person also needs to know what tags exist and what they represent. That requires maintaining a "tag" index/glossary that lists the tags and an explanation for when each tag should be used.

A hierarchal structure, like an outline, helps organize information into clear categories and order... the higher up the outline structure a term appears, the more general it is. The lower in the outline tree, the more specific.

The greatest limitation of the structure is that each "atomic" element/note can only appear in one place in the outline tree... even if it is relevant in other areas of the outline.

Searching, when simple, works fine for most situations. But issues arise when more complex searches are needed. That's when support for something like RegEx is needed. That isn't something that most notes/knowledge systems support.

Even with simple searches, searching can be incomplete. One needs to know what word(s) appear in a note that they're interested in.

All of these approaches to accessing data requires some amount of premeditation when adding a new piece of information to the knowledgebase.

I have a personal knowledgebase that spans 40 years. This information spans all topics.... personal, work, technical, ministry, projects, etc. It started out as a strict hierarchical structure, but as data was added, the hierarchy no longer made sense and connections between seemingly disconnected pieces of information grew.

I make use of the hierarchical structure that most notes apps support, in addition to tags/labels, and now hyperlinks.

With hyperlinks, the connections aren't just 1 level deep as they are with searches and tags. These links can form chains that allow for greater insights/access.

Regarding wiki-linkin in Obsidian:
The wiki-linking in Obsidian is a visual way to display those connections (based on inline words/phrases, not a consciously defined tag)... it's not simply a list of results that match a search criteria but a visual map that shows the relationships between those notes. It displays the link chain so the relationship between two pieces of information can be displayed even when they are not directly connected to each other.
This post is an instant DEVONthink capture!! Thanks for the wonderful explanation. You've obviously put much thought into the process.
 
This post is an instant DEVONthink capture!! Thanks for the wonderful explanation. You've obviously put much thought into the process.
Thank you for the kind words. I think that there is great value in discussing methods of capturing, storing, and accessing information from our personal knowledgebases. Even after all of these years, I'm constantly learning about new methods and new tools... like just hearing about UpNote from an MR member in this thread just a few days ago. :D

I have been blessed with a terrific memory, but with age comes the natural deterioration of memories... so I take time periodically to capture memories to remind myself should there come a time when I am not able to remember, and to pass them on to the next generation.

But I have to admit that some knowledge probably SHOULD be forgotten... how many people are going to need to know how to tweak a USB setting under Windows XP to get a Microsoft Zune to be recognized. o_O?
 
Thank you for the kind words. I think that there is great value in discussing methods of capturing, storing, and accessing information from our personal knowledgebases. Even after all of these years, I'm constantly learning about new methods and new tools... like just hearing about UpNote from an MR member in this thread just a few days ago. :D

I have been blessed with a terrific memory, but with age comes the natural deterioration of memories... so I take time periodically to capture memories to remind myself should there come a time when I am not able to remember, and to pass them on to the next generation.

But I have to admit that some knowledge probably SHOULD be forgotten... how many people are going to need to know how to tweak a USB setting under Windows XP to get a Microsoft Zune to be recognized. o_O?

I agree. I am a certified Novell Network (3.6) Engineer. I am quite happy that I have managed to forget almost all of that.
 
  • Haha
  • Like
Reactions: Tagbert and sracer
It's a matter of how one uses their notes, and the content of their notes.

Notes/knowledgebase can range from a disconnected pile of notes (Google Keep without labels) on one side, or a tightly organized hierarchical structure (rigid outline) on the other... with a mix of both in between.

Physical hierarchal structure, simple searches, (hash)tags, and wiki-links are ways to access the information. Each has their own set of advantages and deficiencies that make any one of them insufficient as the only way to interact with the data.

Some like tagging notes so that searching for a particular tag can display notes that might not appear in the same hierarchy of information. That's helpful if one knows in advance what they're going to want to refer to in the future.

But what typically happens; a person will create a bunch of notes and tag them, for example: #recipe. But as their notes database grows, they decide that they want to additionally tag notes with the type of recipe. So they have to go back into the individual notes that are tagged with #recipe and add the new tag, #dessert, #entree, #maindish, etc.

The person also needs to know what tags exist and what they represent. That requires maintaining a "tag" index/glossary that lists the tags and an explanation for when each tag should be used.

A hierarchal structure, like an outline, helps organize information into clear categories and order... the higher up the outline structure a term appears, the more general it is. The lower in the outline tree, the more specific.

The greatest limitation of the structure is that each "atomic" element/note can only appear in one place in the outline tree... even if it is relevant in other areas of the outline.

Searching, when simple, works fine for most situations. But issues arise when more complex searches are needed. That's when support for something like RegEx is needed. That isn't something that most notes/knowledge systems support.

Even with simple searches, searching can be incomplete. One needs to know what word(s) appear in a note that they're interested in.

All of these approaches to accessing data requires some amount of premeditation when adding a new piece of information to the knowledgebase.

I have a personal knowledgebase that spans 40 years. This information spans all topics.... personal, work, technical, ministry, projects, etc. It started out as a strict hierarchical structure, but as data was added, the hierarchy no longer made sense and connections between seemingly disconnected pieces of information grew.

I make use of the hierarchical structure that most notes apps support, in addition to tags/labels, and now hyperlinks.

With hyperlinks, the connections aren't just 1 level deep as they are with searches and tags. These links can form chains that allow for greater insights/access.

Regarding wiki-linkin in Obsidian:
The wiki-linking in Obsidian is a visual way to display those connections (based on inline words/phrases, not a consciously defined tag)... it's not simply a list of results that match a search criteria but a visual map that shows the relationships between those notes. It displays the link chain so the relationship between two pieces of information can be displayed even when they are not directly connected to each other.

I just want to show my appreciation of how much effort went into this post.

I see where you are coming from but to need such features your notes should be significantly large and at this point its nearing a DB level and not notes saving.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tagbert
how many people are going to need to know how to tweak a USB setting under Windows XP to get a Microsoft Zune to be recognized. o_O?

Not many, but sometimes its useful. I did look back into a world of old guides to see how to uninstall Adobe Flash! You will be surprised who in the future will need to pick up such information.
 
UpNote is beautiful and easy to use. I would probably use it exclusively if it didn't have one drawback that it shares with Apple Notes--the inability to reorder numbered and bulleted lists by drag and drop. If the devs would add that and maybe allow two columns it would be absolutely perfect for me.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: sracer
Am trying Obsidian. It has some of the good points of Joplin and Typora.
It's free. It's cross-platform (Mac, Windows & Linux). It can save to MEGA folder. It saves files as plain Markdown. It can have a single Editing/Preview window. It can organise multiple folders/files.
 
UpNote is beautiful and easy to use. I would probably use it exclusively if it didn't have one drawback that it shares with Apple Notes--the inability to reorder numbered and bulleted lists by drag and drop. If the devs would add that and maybe allow two columns it would be absolutely perfect for me.

should be easy feature to implement by the developers, send them an email

Am trying Obsidian. It has some of the good points of Joplin and Typora.
It's free. It's cross-platform (Mac, Windows & Linux). It can save to MEGA folder. It saves files as plain Markdown. It can have a single Editing/Preview window. It can organise multiple folders/files.

But the app is heavy given its electron. If you live within that app then its ok but if you have it as a side running app to call every now and then , it takes a long time to load and everything.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.