Just get a refurbished iPhone 8 Plus and be done with this madness. Zero eye strain from that LCD display
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Other Eye-strain while using iPhone X and up
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With Android OLED Smartphones i had recently no different experience. S21 Ultra, OnePlus 8 Pro with DC Dimming, OnePlus 8T with 480 PWM Frequenzy and Pixel 4 XL all cause me same eye strain and headache. With the 13 pro max i had compared to this devices less eye strain. The last device that i had could good use was the S10+. Not perfect but useable for me that has not very high SoT on working days.
Sounds great that you were able to adjust and get over it. Would love that. I didn’t give it enough time to find out if I could.
Thanks for the follow up - it talked me off the ledge of ordering a 13 after reading about it having the highest PWM rate. I will pass.
Onwards to Pixel 6 release 🤞
Ok, Im done with this… would really like to buy some great camera device.. but i wont. I am not even gonna try if i can live with any owm enabled iohone, pwm aint good for anybody’s health… so, why bother. Will wait for any new technology that will be flicker free, hopefully, one day…
Our only hope is microLED. Although the technology still uses PWM, I believe it operates at far higher frequencies (10,000+Hz, I think?) and so should in theory be a lot less problematic.
Or at the very least, I hope Apple retains some sort of LCD option going forward, whether that be an ‘SE Plus’ or future SE based on the 11 design.
Or maybe a DC dimming OLED? Anything, please!
I actually would love a mini size with LCD.Would love next iphone se to have ip11 form factor and camera from regular iphone 13, would gladly pay a lot for it… but wont happen probably… whatever, there far more important things in our life than iphones, right?
The thing that seems curious is why does the regular 13 appear to have more visible flicker than the 13 Pro which supposedly has lower PWM frequency?
I have tested this myself by recording slo-mo 240fps of these devices, at different brightness levels, and the regulars do seem to show flicker more regardless of the brightness. According to Notebookcheck, the 13 has PWM frequency of 609.8 Hz while 13 Pro is at 510.2 Hz. If you compare these to most OLED phones that are around 200-300 Hz, the ones with lower Hz will show even more flicker to the camera.
It makes you wonder, is there something that Notebookcheck missed when they did their test on the PWM of these phones? For instance, the regular 13 appears to have more flicker the lower the brightness you go, yet the test only gives a fixed number of 609.8 Hz. Could this be due to Apple using different panel manufacturers?
I have to give credit to Notebookcheck for being one of the only websites to even report on this, but I wish there was a more comprehensive study/resources to find more about the issue of PWM flicker.
Now to give my own experiences and opinions, my eyes are sensitive to low frequency flicker. This PWM issue is not just some made up ********. I used to use CRT monitors and they seriously hurt my eyes and gave me headaches, in fact I believe it may have affected my eyesight to the extent of developing myopia and having to get prescription glasses at a relatively young age (around 15). On the other hand flicker-free LCD IPS monitors don't strain my eyes at all.
I also have a Sony X950G TV that has a VA-panel with PWM frequency of 720 Hz according to Rtings. The flicker of this TV is less noticeable to the camera than the 13/13 Pro and that makes sense, since typically the higher the Hz the less visible flicker. This Sony TV does not seem to bother my eyes (at a distance of ~4m at 65").
I have tested this myself by recording slo-mo 240fps of these devices, at different brightness levels, and the regulars do seem to show flicker more regardless of the brightness. According to Notebookcheck, the 13 has PWM frequency of 609.8 Hz while 13 Pro is at 510.2 Hz. If you compare these to most OLED phones that are around 200-300 Hz, the ones with lower Hz will show even more flicker to the camera.
It makes you wonder, is there something that Notebookcheck missed when they did their test on the PWM of these phones? For instance, the regular 13 appears to have more flicker the lower the brightness you go, yet the test only gives a fixed number of 609.8 Hz. Could this be due to Apple using different panel manufacturers?
I have to give credit to Notebookcheck for being one of the only websites to even report on this, but I wish there was a more comprehensive study/resources to find more about the issue of PWM flicker.
Now to give my own experiences and opinions, my eyes are sensitive to low frequency flicker. This PWM issue is not just some made up ********. I used to use CRT monitors and they seriously hurt my eyes and gave me headaches, in fact I believe it may have affected my eyesight to the extent of developing myopia and having to get prescription glasses at a relatively young age (around 15). On the other hand flicker-free LCD IPS monitors don't strain my eyes at all.
I also have a Sony X950G TV that has a VA-panel with PWM frequency of 720 Hz according to Rtings. The flicker of this TV is less noticeable to the camera than the 13/13 Pro and that makes sense, since typically the higher the Hz the less visible flicker. This Sony TV does not seem to bother my eyes (at a distance of ~4m at 65").
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Even a new iPhone SE is a surprisingly great alternative to consider. Smaller than iPhone 8 Plus but you get a chip that’s two generations newer, what I feel is a better display, and the same camera sensor that at least uses the neural net processing from iPhone 11. Plus a lot of the best modern technologies, such as wireless charging and TrueTone, are on both of these phones.
Confusingly Notebookcheck does state that Apple has incorporated DC dimming into iPhone 13 Pro, assumedly what they’re attributing to the higher-frequency dimming.
From their English review:
“Unfortunately, the OLED panel suffers from PWM flickering (flickering frequency at 10% brightness and below: 240 Hz; at above 10% brightness: 446.4-510.2 Hz). However, Apple has integrated a DC dimming mode into the iPhone 13 Pro. All in all, the iPhone’s screen does quite a bit to ameliorate the OLED flickering.”
From their English review:
“Unfortunately, the OLED panel suffers from PWM flickering (flickering frequency at 10% brightness and below: 240 Hz; at above 10% brightness: 446.4-510.2 Hz). However, Apple has integrated a DC dimming mode into the iPhone 13 Pro. All in all, the iPhone’s screen does quite a bit to ameliorate the OLED flickering.”
The fact that they’re putting in a tiny bit of effort the reduce the strobing of their OLED panels shows that at the very least, they’re aware of the problem — which is progress I guess. (Not enough but some).
It’s better than what competitors are offering at least. DC dimming modes still flicker, usually at 60Hz.
I feel like I'm going a bit nuts here, but I'm considering a 12 Pro Max now. I previously used the 12 Pro Max without issues for about 9 months. To be honest, I wish I'd kept the damn thing, but I got caught up in the 13 Pro Max pre-order hype and traded it in with Music Magpie.
Looking into the data from NotebookCheck, it has roughly 240Hz PWM vs 610Hz (iPhone 13) and 480Hz* (iPhone 13 Pro Max).
*As reported here.
For whatever reason, it seems to be the 13 series with its higher PWM frequencies (and more intense modulation?) that is causing me issues. The 13 gave me a headache and made me feel nauseous, the 13 Pro Max gave me horrendous eye strain within a few days.
I previously used the X, XS Max, 11 Pro Max and 12 Pro Max and they're all in the region of 240Hz. And I might be wrong here, but I think I read that the 12 Pro and Pro Max have DC dimming (or at least less modulation) above 25% or something?
Although I get on well with the 11, it feels frustrating to be stuck on an older model that lacks 5G and the telephoto camera. And I miss the huge display of the Max! I'm not fussed about 120Hz in a phone, especially when the display makes my eyes want to pop out. My 165Hz (flicker-free) PC monitor gives me all the high-refresh joy I need.
Sky Mobile have the 256GB Pacific Blue in stock and I've already been approved for monthly payments. I've not signed the contract yet... what do you guys think? I'll have another 14 days to return it, I guess.
I previously used the 12 Pro Max without issues for about 9 months. To be honest, I wish I'd kept the damn thing, but I got caught up in the 13 Pro Max pre-order hype and traded it in with Music Magpie.Looking into the data from NotebookCheck, it has roughly 240Hz PWM vs 610Hz (iPhone 13) and 480Hz* (iPhone 13 Pro Max).
*As reported here.
For whatever reason, it seems to be the 13 series with its higher PWM frequencies (and more intense modulation?) that is causing me issues. The 13 gave me a headache and made me feel nauseous, the 13 Pro Max gave me horrendous eye strain within a few days.
I previously used the X, XS Max, 11 Pro Max and 12 Pro Max and they're all in the region of 240Hz. And I might be wrong here, but I think I read that the 12 Pro and Pro Max have DC dimming (or at least less modulation) above 25% or something?
Although I get on well with the 11, it feels frustrating to be stuck on an older model that lacks 5G and the telephoto camera. And I miss the huge display of the Max! I'm not fussed about 120Hz in a phone, especially when the display makes my eyes want to pop out. My 165Hz (flicker-free) PC monitor gives me all the high-refresh joy I need.
Sky Mobile have the 256GB Pacific Blue in stock and I've already been approved for monthly payments. I've not signed the contract yet... what do you guys think? I'll have another 14 days to return it, I guess.
The 12 Pro and Pro Max are no longer available from Apple, but everywhere legally has to provide 14-day returns (even opened) when ordered online in the UK.
I'm now debating between the 12 Pro Max and 12 Pro. It's so hard to choose!
Me. I have no issues with Samsung oleds. The most recent Samsungs I've tried are the S10e and S20 FE and I didn't have any problems with either. But the oled screen on the XS definitely gives me some problems...though not as much as most people in this thread.
I'd have no issue switching back to Android. Though I'd just really like if Apple offered more LCD options going forward but it looks like the 11 is the last one with the modern design. The next SE is rumored to have LCD again but it's not a design I'd be interested in anyway.
@RobinYerbank
Only the iPhone 12 Pro has DC-Dimming. According to Notebookcheck, the iPhone 12 Pro Max has no DC-Dimming.
Only the iPhone 12 Pro has DC-Dimming. According to Notebookcheck, the iPhone 12 Pro Max has no DC-Dimming.
I feel your frustration: I would love to have the newest phones, too. I’ve had several thoughts in the last two weeks that went something like: “well some people aren’t having issues, maybe I won’t either! Maybe I should give a mini a shot again!”I feel like I'm going a bit nuts here, but I'm considering a 12 Pro Max now.
Looking into the data from NotebookCheck, it has roughly 240Hz PWM vs 610Hz (iPhone 13) and 480Hz* (iPhone 13 Pro Max).
*As reported here.
For whatever reason, it seems to be the 13 series with its higher PWM frequencies (and more intense modulation?) that is causing me issues. The 13 gave me a headache and made me feel nauseous, the 13 Pro Max gave me horrendous eye strain within a few days.
I previously used the X, XS Max, 11 Pro Max and 12 Pro Max and they're all in the region of 240Hz. And I might be wrong here, but I think I read that the 12 Pro and Pro Max have DC dimming (or at least less modulation) above 25% or something?
Although I get on well with the 11, it feels frustrating to be stuck on an older model that lacks 5G and the telephoto camera. And I miss the huge display of the Max! I'm not fussed about 120Hz in a phone, especially when the display makes my eyes want to pop out. My 165Hz (flicker-free) PC monitor gives me all the high-refresh joy I need.
Sky Mobile have the 256GB Pacific Blue in stock and I've already been approved for monthly payments. I've not signed the contract yet... what do you guys think? I'll have another 14 days to return it, I guess.
(Two things that I don’t like about the 11, is the lack of telephoto…. And the heft. I’ve gotten used to both, though, but sometimes wish I had a smaller phone again.)
I think people that can’t handle these flicker bomb phones should just get over the idea of a smartphone with a camera. Buy a dedicated camera (which wilt be way better than any iPhone could ever be, and always will be, and buy a LCD iPhone.
Problem solved, and the annual “best camera ever hype” we’re subjected to every year will be meaningless
Problem solved, and the annual “best camera ever hype” we’re subjected to every year will be meaningless
iPhone SE is still an excellent choice for anyone who is concerned about this topic. That is what I am using. Love how lightweight it is.
No way. I’m never going back to lugging around an extra weight.
“The straps get all tangled, your shoulder gets tired. Who wants that? YUCK!” - Steve Jobs (or something)
Doubt you’d fare much better. The 12 mini is the only PWM display I’ve gotten along with. This extends to cheap LCD monitors that use PWM dimming (which is where I first discovered I was sensitive to it). Also hilariously, the Galaxy S2 was my first OLED screen, but it was DC-dimmed.
One great thing about Android is that you have the flexibility of using an app like ‘OLED Saver’ to give you an approximation of DC dimming.
It essentially pins your brightness at 100%, and draws a grey overlay over your display. Because OLED is OLED, a grey overlay effectively reduces the brightness. I’d recommend this solution for those who want a modern phone and aren’t stuck to the iPhone. It’s much friendlier than reduce white point. It gives you a brightness slider in the notification shade, and it even supports auto brightness curves.
The problems:
* Your screenshots come out unreadable
* It blocks out some security-related buttons (can’t approve app permissions when the filter is enabled)
* Colours are not accurate - you get a lot of banding and some off artefacts like splotching
* This may increase the rate that the OLED pixels wear (earlier burn in)
This is definitely one of the areas where Android has its advantages. You can’t make this sort of app on iOS.