Other Eye-strain while using iPhone X and up

[nicklear]

I got the 11 because of the LCD screen, but it seems to be making me cross eyed and unable to focus at distance. I don't have this on my old phone (Honor 10). I had already turned off Face ID to rule that out.

I have seen a few people not able to handle the 11, but not many. Are there any theories around that?

 

[The.Glorious.Son]

I got the 11 because of the LCD screen, but it seems to be making me cross eyed and unable to focus at distance. I don't have this on my old phone (Honor 10). I had already turned off Face ID to rule that out.

I have seen a few people not able to handle the 11, but not many. Are there any theories around that?

The two major theories I’ve seen are temporal dithering (used on post iPhone 8 LCD screens) and if you’re coming from a higher ppi screen to the 326 ppi of the 11. Some can notice less sharpness, have to squint, etc.

I’m fortunately not bothered by the 11. But some other members are.

 

[jrajpaul]

Bought the iPhone 12 Pro last year and couldn’t use it for more than 5 minutes without feeling nausea and headache. Gave it to my wife and used the 11 for a year. I bought the 13 pro this year, thinking that the higher refresh rate will help. It gives me the exact same feeling as the 12 pro so I think the display is very similar (both are samsung). I am going to return the 13 pro as it is only 1 day old. I hope that Apple release a microled iPhone in the near future. OLED is bad for anyone who suffers with light sensitivity, photophobia, migraines etc. Back to the iphone 11 for me. New battery and new case so that it can last for another year.

 

[RRC]

Bought the iPhone 12 Pro last year and couldn’t use it for more than 5 minutes without feeling nausea and headache. Gave it to my wife and used the 11 for a year. I bought the 13 pro this year, thinking that the higher refresh rate will help. It gives me the exact same feeling as the 12 pro so I think the display is very similar (both are samsung). I am going to return the 13 pro as it is only 1 day old. I hope that Apple release a microled iPhone in the near future. OLED is bad for anyone who suffers with light sensitivity, photophobia, migraines etc. Back to the iphone 11 for me. New battery and new case so that it can last for another year.

It’s not the OLED causing the issue. It’s PWM.

Managing PWM on OLED iPhone & iPad Displays

Some iPhone and iPad users are sensitive to PWM flickering on the latest devices OLED displays. PWM, which stands for Pulse Width Modulation, can cause some users to have eye strain, feel nauseous …

osxdaily.com

 

[jrajpaul]

It’s not the OLED causing the issue. It’s PWM.

Managing PWM on OLED iPhone & iPad Displays

Some iPhone and iPad users are sensitive to PWM flickering on the latest devices OLED displays. PWM, which stands for Pulse Width Modulation, can cause some users to have eye strain, feel nauseous …

osxdaily.com

There is enough information on this thread which explains why Apples implementation of OLED caused serious health concerns for people. The accessibility reduce white point setting does not adjust the PWM. LCD screens are perfect for my eyes and many others. I have an iPad Pro 120hz, MacBook Air, and iphone 11 and don’t experience any problems with those devices. I have used OLED from other manufacturers without any issues either so its definitely the implementation of the display combined with the display driver.

 

[Crystal21]

I knew nothing about this issue before posting here yesterday about how bad the screen on my new iPhone 12 mini is. Clearly this PWM causes problems for quite a few people and I must be one of them. I’m going to return the 12 mini and stick with my old iPhone SE. I’m quite sensitive to light in general (fluorescent lights give me a migraine) but my bf certainly isn’t and he’s been having problems since buying an iPad Pro last month. The doctor thought maybe it was a sinus infection but the treatment made no difference. He sent him to an optician who couldn’t find any eye problems. I’m now starting to think it may be his iPad. He’s never been prone to headaches before.

 

[esaelias187]

Well... I'm gonna be a bit of a hypocrite and I'm also going to try out the 13 again. I didn't really give it a proper go previously and sent it back along with the 13 Pro Max, the one that was definitely destroying my eyes.

I previously had no noticeable issues with the 12 Pro (and 11 Pro Max), so I'm hoping the standard 13 with its (supposed) 610Hz PWM and fixed refresh rate will be okay for me. One came up as available at Covent Garden, 256GB, so I went for it on an impulse.

I just love that pink and I would like to enjoy the OLED (without pain), cameras and battery life. It's also a bit smaller and lighter than the 11, too.

I intend to give it a good go and will certainly report back on my experience with the display!

I think one thing that's been muddying my personal experience with these phones is that I've been fighting a super persistent cold for weeks. My eyes feel a lot more sensitive and sore when I'm sick, so it might be exaggerating my symptoms somewhat. Only the 13 Pro Max for sure has quickly and noticeably caused eye trouble for me.

well let me know please i got it too testing today

 

[now i see it]

I knew nothing about this issue before posting here yesterday about how bad the screen on my new iPhone 12 mini is. Clearly this PWM causes problems for quite a few people and I must be one of them. I’m going to return the 12 mini and stick with my old iPhone SE. I’m quite sensitive to light in general (fluorescent lights give me a migraine) but my bf certainly isn’t and he’s been having problems since buying an iPad Pro last month. The doctor thought maybe it was a sinus infection but the treatment made no difference. He sent him to an optician who couldn’t find any eye problems. I’m now starting to think it may be his iPad. He’s never been prone to headaches before.

Use a different model of iPad. They don’t all use PWM flickering which gives some people headaches. And some use a much higher frequency which is easier on the nervous system.

Below is a list of the iPads that DO flicker due to PWM. Although the strobing is at much higher frequencies than iPhones, some people are still sensitive to it anyway:

iPad Pro 12.9 2021 (19190 hz)
iPad 2021 (40000 hz)
iPad Pro 12.9 2020 (58820 hz)
iPad Mini 5 (5556 hz)
iPad mini 6 (178600 hz)
iPad Pro 11 2020 (1316 hz (bad))

 

[TDDM]

iPad 2021 (40000 hz)
iPad mini 6 (178600 hz)

Where did you get these numbers from? I was hoping that the iPad 2021 and mini 6 didn't have flicker at all. That's disappointing to hear

 

[LostAggie]

Where did you get these numbers from? I was hoping that the iPad 2021 and mini 6 didn't have flicker at all. That's disappointing to hear

The 2021 iPad Pro 11 does NOT have PWM.

 

[now i see it]

Where did you get these numbers from? I was hoping that the iPad 2021 and mini 6 didn't have flicker at all. That's disappointing to hear

At Notebook Check.
Use the search function in your browser (I searched “iPad) to find what you’re looking for. It’s one longass list.
Many LCD devices use PWM flickering too - but at much higher frequencies

https://www.notebookcheck.net/PWM-Ranking-Notebooks-Smartphones-and-Tablets-with-PWM.163979.0.html

 

[esaelias187]

Getting slight headache with iphone 13 guess iphone 11 back to it is will try a fee more days

 

[esaelias187]

Funny thing i noticed

when you record in slow mo on the iphone 13 you can see diagonal lines and when the slow mo kicks in the light flicker

iphone 13 pro you can see the lines going up but when slow moe kicks in there is actually no flicker

i might try iphone 13 pro after this

 

[Taz Mangus]

Well... I'm gonna be a bit of a hypocrite and I'm also going to try out the 13 again. I didn't really give it a proper go previously and sent it back along with the 13 Pro Max, the one that was definitely destroying my eyes.

I previously had no noticeable issues with the 12 Pro (and 11 Pro Max), so I'm hoping the standard 13 with its (supposed) 610Hz PWM and fixed refresh rate will be okay for me. One came up as available at Covent Garden, 256GB, so I went for it on an impulse.

I just love that pink and I would like to enjoy the OLED (without pain), cameras and battery life. It's also a bit smaller and lighter than the 11, too.

I intend to give it a good go and will certainly report back on my experience with the display!

I think one thing that's been muddying my personal experience with these phones is that I've been fighting a super persistent cold for weeks. My eyes feel a lot more sensitive and sore when I'm sick, so it might be exaggerating my symptoms somewhat. Only the 13 Pro Max for sure has quickly and noticeably caused eye trouble for me.

The PWM for all the iPhone 13 models is 510.2 Hz, not 610 Hz. The only difference is that the 13 Pro/Pro Max have a 120Hz display. Maybe the dynamic refresh rate is what is causing the issue for you.

 

[esaelias187]

The PWM for all the iPhone 13 models is 510.2 Hz, not 610 Hz. The only difference is that the 13 Pro/Pro Max have a 120Hz display. Maybe the dynamic refresh rate is what is causing the issue for you.

Does the refresh rate have any link to pwm?

 

[esaelias187]

Does the refresh rate have any link to pwm?

Isnt iphone 13 pro around 400hz

 

[Taz Mangus]

Does the refresh rate have any link to pwm?

PWM has to do with how the display illumination is controlled, brightness. This is different then how the a imagine is refreshed on the display.

A display that refreshes at 60 Hz or 120 Hz (ProMotion) describes how fast the imagine is refreshed on the screen. With ProMotion a static image will be refreshed on the screen at 10 Hz or 10 times a second. A scrolling imaging can be refreshed at up to 120 Hz or 120 times a second. So what is not clear is how the ProMotion seems to affect your eyes. Maybe you want to look at a 13 Pro and non-Pro after you get over your cold.

Isnt iphone 13 pro around 400hz

All iPhone 13 models have 510.2 Hz PWM.

EDIT: According to Notebook Check, the iPhone 13 PWM is 609.8 Hz not 510.2 Hz. The other 13 models are all 510.2 Hz. Curious why the regular 13 has a higher PWM rate then the other models.

 

[JM]

Btw, iphone 13 canera, is it same as one used in 12 pro max? And sensor? I mean, would iphone 13 camera noticeable better than iphone 11 one? Only thing that i want to upgrade from trusty 11 is better camera, i do make ton of pictures if children, so camera is priority hear.. second to health safety

I started with 12 mini last year upgrading from a 7 and it was obviously SOOO much better.

then I returned because of eye pain and got the 11. The pictures of the 11 were noticeably (to me) worse, but still good of course.

so I would imagine the 13 is even better!

 

[JM]

I got the 11 because of the LCD screen, but it seems to be making me cross eyed and unable to focus at distance. I don't have this on my old phone (Honor 10). I had already turned off Face ID to rule that out.

I have seen a few people not able to handle the 11, but not many. Are there any theories around that?

Yes. One theory that resonates with me is temporal dithering. (To achieve greater color range, or something, the pixels are flashed back and forth to create illusion of different colors.) this creates a different kind of flashing other than PWM.

I Had right eye fatigue (it felt like I would go blind at any moment if that makes sense) with 11 and had head warmth when I first got it.

When I wear my glasses that makes my left eye see not blurry, then I don’t get any eye fatigue (I suspect that when my one good eye is working all the time to process the temporal dithering, it makes the retina tired, or something).

 

[elephantnut]

Hoping we get more experiences with the 13/Pro as more people get their hands on them.

Anecdotally, I struggled a lot with the X and Xs. I tried the 12 mini shortly after release and I’ve now been using it for close to a year now.

It took about a week to adjust initially, but I eventually got over the hump. This is without any mitigations (no reduce white point), and using whatever brightness is comfortable (often below ~15% in a dark room for long periods).

I’d prefer not to have to think about this at all though. I’d love to upgrade if it’s ‘fixed’ on the 13 line, but the reports so far don’t sound too promising.

 

[jimmy_uk]

So any word from those that are now testing the standard 13 after failed attempts with the 13 Pro/Pro Max?

 

[Crystal21]

I looked this up on notebookcheck. The 13 mini seems to have double the PWN of the 12 mini. Does anyone know what this means in practice? Does more PWM mean more headaches/dizziness or less?

 

[RobinYerbank]

Well... I'm gonna be a bit of a hypocrite and I'm also going to try out the 13 again. I didn't really give it a proper go previously and sent it back along with the 13 Pro Max, the one that was definitely destroying my eyes.

I previously had no noticeable issues with the 12 Pro (and 11 Pro Max), so I'm hoping the standard 13 with its (supposed) 610Hz PWM and fixed refresh rate will be okay for me. One came up as available at Covent Garden, 256GB, so I went for it on an impulse.

I just love that pink and I would like to enjoy the OLED (without pain), cameras and battery life. It's also a bit smaller and lighter than the 11, too.

I intend to give it a good go and will certainly report back on my experience with the display!

I think one thing that's been muddying my personal experience with these phones is that I've been fighting a super persistent cold for weeks. My eyes feel a lot more sensitive and sore when I'm sick, so it might be exaggerating my symptoms somewhat. Only the 13 Pro Max for sure has quickly and noticeably caused eye trouble for me.

Hope that works out for you! i am going to do the exact same, have already ordered the 13 128 in black but have to wait until 28/10

well let me know please i got it too testing today

Unhappy ending to this story, sadly! The 13 felt okay at first when I was using it a bit here and there last night, but it's been a disaster today.

I tried using the phone for a few hours doing various stuff. Browsing the Web, Instagram, my favourite game (Tuscany Villa) and I started feeling gradually more and more nauseous and a bit dizzy.

Symptoms started subsiding again after I stopped using it, and started increasing in intensity again as soon as I went back to it.

So disappointing! Yet another return to Apple set up...

My 2021 iPhone saga is over. I'm stuck with the 11 for the foreseeable future! But I'm honestly okay with that, because it's still an amazing phone and handles my needs perfectly. I prefer the LCD and not just because it doesn't cause me discomfort. I really do prefer how it looks, and how the 11 shows the 'Max' interface instead of the non-Max one (fits more on the screen).

I did also do a camera comparison, by the way. I genuinely prefer the 11's camera! It looks significantly sharper due to the smaller aperture (f/1.8 vs f/1.6 in the 13). Only downside is that the ultra-wide isn't as good and the low light performance requires longer Night Mode exposure time.

At least I get to hang out with you lovely lot of fellow sufferers! It's nice to know I'm far from alone in this.

 

[1369281]

I looked this up on notebookcheck. The 13 mini seems to have double the PWN of the 12 mini. Does anyone know what this means in practice? Does more PWM mean more headaches/dizziness or less?
View attachment 1868412

PWM, at any frequency, means that flickering occurs. Higher frequency means it flickers more quickly than lower frequency, which should be less noticeable. While 600 Hz is 60% more than 240 Hz, it's still unacceptable, in my opinion.

I'm hoping that iPhone displays with miniLED and microLED have frequencies above 15000 Hz or--ideally--do not use PWM at all.

 

[Rollomat93]

It would be interesting to know if those of us who have problems with Apple oled screens also have problems with android oled screens.
It's strange that you can find so many reports on the internet about Apple oled iPhones and even those with lcd screens. For android phones there are also a few reports but not nearly as many.
I've reached the point where I would switch to android immediately if I didn't get eye pain from these screens, but I haven't been able to test one yet.

My question: does anyone here have no problems with android phones, but with Apple you do?