Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Status
The first post of this thread is a WikiPost and can be edited by anyone with the appropiate permissions. Your edits will be public.

Are you experiencing this issue?


  • Total voters
    1,963
So far I’m able to mix up my use between my S22 Ultra, iPad Mini 6 and 14 Pro Max if I keep it to around 2 hours or less screen time a day.
 
  • Like
Reactions: The.Glorious.Son
Well I caved in today and ordered a standard iPhone 11 128GB which will hopefully cover me for a while, combined with the 8 Plus if required. Will be exploring Samsung offerings, see how the S22 looks.
S23 is coming out in February, and that should push the price of the S22 down.
 
  • Like
Reactions: techtechtech
S23 is coming out in February, and that should push the price of the S22 down.
Sounds good, I may have to switch to the dark side for a while :eek: :D and see how I get on. Next few days I will trial the 11 Pro for short periods and then see how it compares to the 11 once that arrives.

Every time I type something about this it reads like total madness, remembering when you just bought a new phone and used it without any issues like this. Guess it is a bump in the road which we will all hopefully get past at some point.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 5105973
Especially since OLED displays didn’t solve any significant problem (deeper blacks BFD) and introduced a slew of new ones.
That's the thing. I feel like we were all sold the OLED crap just like we were sold the 5G stuff. Marketing hype.

In lots of areas 4G or LTE is just as fast and the 5G hype is nowhere near what was promised. Marques did a good video on that lately.

 
I (perhaps idiotically) have a 14 (non-pro) coming today. Anyone out there who found success with the 14 have some settings tips to share?

Hearing some of the success stories re: S22 Ultra tempts me to send the 14 right back and try android for a bit. Not sure what’s worse — headaches or being ostracized for green bubble texts.
 
Especially since OLED displays didn’t solve any significant problem (deeper blacks BFD) and introduced a slew of new ones.
This is the crazy part, it was in many ways designed to solve a problem that didn't exist. I have a superb Sony LED TV from around 2017 which produces incredible blacks, close enough to OLED for my money. Power saving or efficiency is of course most welcome but without burning my retinas if possible 🤪
 
some settings tips to share?
On all iPhones, even the older LCD models, setting Reduce White Point to somewhere around 60% really helps cut back the obscene ultra vivid brightness & colors. I can’t imagine using any iPhone without it enabled.
I also have Night Shift permanently enabled 24/7 (night & day shift ha!) to a warmer tone that suits me.
When I turn both of those things off / holy crap the display looks very harsh & hellish to me. Definite eye cranker.
 
I know that many impacted negatively by OLED displays feel that Apple and other companies are being negligent, question if OLED even has advantages, question why this isn’t being addressed, push for increased feedback to Apple, etc. Believe me I get it.

But at the same time, I think we must not lose sight of the fact that we are an incredibly small subset affected. In July 2018, there were over a billion phones with OLED screens. Imagine what that number is now. And despite that, I have not once encountered a friend, Apple associate, Verizon associate, eye doctor, etc. who has even heard of PWM. Heck, I think Zollotech is the only ‘major’ tech blogger who has even touched on the subject.

It sucks for those of us impacted, but reality is an overwhelmingly high percentage of people pick up an OLED phone and have zero issues. It is the industry standard, certainly isn't going anywhere from what I have read, and I fear the only way the SE4 doesn’t move to OLED is if Apple feels LCD to be a key differentiator from the flagship lineup as OLED is generally perceived to be superior to LCD due to it’s saturated colors, pure blacks, reduced power consumption, etc.

tl:dr - the reality of not owning a flagship phone again makes my head hurt. Pun intended.
 
I know that many impacted negatively by OLED displays feel that Apple and other companies are being negligent, question if OLED even has advantages, question why this isn’t being addressed, push for increased feedback to Apple, etc. Believe me I get it.

But at the same time, I think we must not lose sight of the fact that we are an incredibly small subset affected. In July 2018, there were over a billion phones with OLED screens. Imagine what that number is now. And despite that, I have not once encountered a friend, Apple associate, Verizon associate, eye doctor, etc. who has even heard of PWM. Heck, I think Zollotech is the only ‘major’ tech blogger who has even touched on the subject.

It sucks for those of us impacted, but reality is an overwhelmingly high percentage of people pick up an OLED phone and have zero issues. It is the industry standard, certainly isn't going anywhere from what I have read, and I fear the only way the SE4 doesn’t move to OLED is if Apple feels LCD to be a key differentiator from the flagship lineup as OLED is generally perceived to be superior to LCD due to it’s saturated colors, pure blacks, reduced power consumption, etc.

tl:dr - the reality of not owning a flagship phone again makes my head hurt. Pun intended.
That said, I do read more and more posts on reddit, youtube, Samsung forums etc, this year especially, where people are feeling a negative effect and slowly realising their devices might be the source. They are seeking answers and because threads like this exist it's being discussed in many more places across the Internet. People are finding the answers to something they've never experienced before or even heard of.

While I agree the sensitive folks like myself and all of us sharing this thread are the minority, I feel this problem is likely a bigger issue than most are aware of because some will never conclude it's their phone/tablet/laptop that's the problem. Instead they will self medicate, see a doctor or eye specialist or simply plod on never joining the dots.

The very fact that some tech sites and reviewers mention PWM and dithering is a sign of traction. China and Russia are far more aware of the negative effects from screens and lighting while America and Europe have watered down rules and regulations around these things. I remember when the UK had very strict lighting rules on vehicles and properties, now your car and house can be lit like the Blackpool illuminations! Forget about being able to see the road ahead as you are dazzled with an array of modern LED lighting!

9072E363-A2D8-4480-BA40-75AC393AD55E.gif
 
Last edited:
That said, I do read more and more posts on reddit, youtube, Samsung forums etc, this year especially, where people are feeling a negative effect and slowly realising their devices might be the source. They are seeking answers and because threads like this exist it's being discussed in many more places across the Internet. People are finding the answers to something they've never experienced before or even heard of.

While I agree the sensitive folks like myself are the minority, I feel this problem is likely a bigger issue than most are aware of because some will never conclude it's their phone/tablet/laptop that's the problem. Instead they will self medicate, see a doctor or eye specialist or simply plod on never joining the dots.

The very fact that some tech sites and reviewers mention PWM and dithering is a sign of traction.
I have to agree with both these points, yes it looks like OLED is here to stay, so lets hope they can tune out the PWM issues. But, as mentioned by @jimmy_uk, many people will be suffering with PWM and will be unaware of this, certainly not making the link to their phone or laptop. My PWM sensitivity was high enough that I made that link, but only after initially thinking it was heatstroke, and then trying to eliminate the possible cause, the penny finally dropped that my new OLED phone over the course of 3 days had caused it.

My thought is that the minority who suffer this will eventually turn out to be much larger than initial speculation.
 
Isn't there something called DC Dimming that manufacturers could use to eliminate pwm? I remember an Android phone using something like that years ago when I first became aware that this existed.
 
I know that many impacted negatively by OLED displays feel that Apple and other companies are being negligent, question if OLED even has advantages, question why this isn’t being addressed, push for increased feedback to Apple, etc. Believe me I get it.

But at the same time, I think we must not lose sight of the fact that we are an incredibly small subset affected. In July 2018, there were over a billion phones with OLED screens. Imagine what that number is now. And despite that, I have not once encountered a friend, Apple associate, Verizon associate, eye doctor, etc. who has even heard of PWM. Heck, I think Zollotech is the only ‘major’ tech blogger who has even touched on the subject.

It sucks for those of us impacted, but reality is an overwhelmingly high percentage of people pick up an OLED phone and have zero issues. It is the industry standard, certainly isn't going anywhere from what I have read, and I fear the only way the SE4 doesn’t move to OLED is if Apple feels LCD to be a key differentiator from the flagship lineup as OLED is generally perceived to be superior to LCD due to it’s saturated colors, pure blacks, reduced power consumption, etc.

tl:dr - the reality of not owning a flagship phone again makes my head hurt. Pun intended.
Pretty much agree with everything you mentioned. I guess I was just saying that personally, I just don't agree with some of the tech reviewers that OLED on phone screens is the ****. I feel like a good quality LCD panel looks just as good and some ways and better in other ways. Now with TVs, that's probably a different story with OLED, especially the good ones.

That doesn't matter to Apple and other manufacturers, though, and, they are also still hyping 5G, even though that's not necessarily better than LTE yet either.

It just turns out that the flavor of the times, OLED, is hurting people. I agree with Jimmy that there's a whole bunch of folks that haven't connected the dots yet.

In summary, my point isn't just to complain about Apple not doing anything it's just that in my subjective opinion, OLED is not better. And I'm really sick of the manufacturers and all the tech reviewers telling me so. I could be "wrong", but I just prefer LCD; gentler on the eyes. And who cares about the blackest of blacks? All the white text sears into the eyeballs. How is that pleasing? Rant, directed at manufacturers and reviewers, not you :)
 
Isn't there something called DC Dimming that manufacturers could use to eliminate pwm? I remember an Android phone using something like that years ago when I first became aware that this existed.
Indeed, DC dimming is a thing but I suspect it reduces panel life, causes more screen burn maybe? it was an option on Oneplus phones at one point. I believe PWM is a cost saving, screen saving and battery saving measure, I would personally rather have an eye saving measure ;)
 
Pretty much agree with everything you mentioned. I guess I was just saying that personally, I just don't agree with some of the tech reviewers that OLED on phone screens is the ****. I feel like a good quality LCD panel looks just as good and some ways and better in other ways. Now with TVs, that's probably a different story with OLED, especially the good ones.

That doesn't matter to Apple and other manufacturers, though, and, they are also still hyping 5G, even though that's not necessarily better than LTE yet either.

It just turns out that the flavor of the times, OLED, is hurting people. I agree with Jimmy that there's a whole bunch of folks that haven't connected the dots yet.

In summary, my point isn't just to complain about Apple not doing anything it's just that in my subjective opinion, OLED is not better. And I'm really sick of the manufacturers and all the tech reviewers telling me so. I could be "wrong", but I just prefer LCD; gentler on the eyes. And who cares about the blackest of blacks? All the white text sears into the eyeballs. How is that pleasing? Rant, directed at manufacturers and reviewers, not you :)
I could not agree more, put simply LCD screens just look natural to me, easy on the eye, more like paper in a way. The LCD screens have more of a natural backlight glow, this of course makes sense because that is how they are illuminated, OLED is a direct light shining toward you.

You are not wrong in any way, simple fact is that LCD will, by design, be easier on the eyes. OLED is more like bright sun shining through a window, in the way it works.

Literally picked up my 11 Pro earlier, just 1 minute is enough for me to feel it. Switch to 8 Plus and it is night and day, to me LCD feels like the advanced screen. I do like the real black on OLED, don't get me wrong, but that is where it ends for me, nothing else is 'better'. Maybe Samsung or LG will come up with a hybrid solution which overcomes these challenges for those sensitive to PWM.
 
Pretty much agree with everything you mentioned. I guess I was just saying that personally, I just don't agree with some of the tech reviewers that OLED on phone screens is the ****. I feel like a good quality LCD panel looks just as good and some ways and better in other ways. Now with TVs, that's probably a different story with OLED, especially the good ones.

That doesn't matter to Apple and other manufacturers, though, and, they are also still hyping 5G, even though that's not necessarily better than LTE yet either.

It just turns out that the flavor of the times, OLED, is hurting people. I agree with Jimmy that there's a whole bunch of folks that haven't connected the dots yet.

In summary, my point isn't just to complain about Apple not doing anything it's just that in my subjective opinion, OLED is not better. And I'm really sick of the manufacturers and all the tech reviewers telling me so. I could be "wrong", but I just prefer LCD; gentler on the eyes. And who cares about the blackest of blacks? All the white text sears into the eyeballs. How is that pleasing? Rant, directed at manufacturers and reviewers, not you :)
Oh gosh John my post wasn’t directed at anything you said, please don’t think it was. I was just making a blanket observation on posts in general in this thread.

I personally prefer LCD to OLED and wish the transition never happened, above and beyond my eyes.

I respect what everyone says here or I wouldn’t hop in periodically to see what others are saying. I’ve seen the same commentary in Reddit, YouTube comments, etc. Still, we are talking about an industry making trillions of dollars off these phones. Unless studies begin to show actual damage to users of OLED devices (personally I’ve not found anything to substantiate long term or permanent affects), I don’t see a compelling reason for companies to change.

Apple is as shady as the next. They’ll promote their environmental measures in keynotes like they are so concerned about their users and the world in general, and in the same breath try to mandate workers return back to the campus despite showing they could be productive working from home. Guess those car emissions don’t matter as much as removing plastic from the boxes (another cost savings to Apple).

I guess I don’t see change on the horizon because these companies are about the bottom dollar. Period. Keep the shareholders happy. Because let’s face it, the Liquid Retina Display was the greatest thing since sliced bread, until it wasn’t. $$$$$$$

I agree there are people who have no clue it is their phone/tablet/etc causing them issues. But even if they draw the correlation, what percentage do y’all think it would take for companies to address it? Honest question.

Apple could absolutely make a flagship LCD phone, but they choose not to. They could mitigate the OLED issues potentially with DC dimming but they choose not to. It’s disheartening and understandable at the same time. $$$
 
Last edited:
Oh gosh John my post wasn’t directed at anything you said, please don’t think it was. I was just making a blanket observation on posts in general in this thread.

I personally prefer LCD to OLED and wish the transition never happened, above and beyond my eyes.

I respect what everyone says here or I wouldn’t hop in periodically to see what others are saying. I’ve seen the same commentary in Reddit, YouTube comments, etc. Still, we are talking about an industry making trillions of dollars off these phones. Unless studies begin to show actual damage to users of OLED devices (personally I’ve not found anything to substantiate long term or permanent affects), I don’t see a compelling reason for companies to change.

Apple is as shady as the next. They’ll promote their environmental measures in keynotes like they are so concerned about their users and the world in general, and in the same breath try to mandate workers return back to the campus despite showing they could be productive working from home. Guess those car emissions don’t matter as much as removing plastic from the boxes (another cost savings to Apple).

I guess I don’t see change on the horizon because these companies are about the bottom dollar. Period. Keep the shareholders happy. Because let’s face it, the Liquid Retina Display was the greatest thing since sliced bread, until it wasn’t. $$$$$$$
No offense taken, I did not feel targeted at all. You made some great and accurate observations!

I'm just particularly agitated about reviewers right now. I'm gonna thin the amount of reviewers I pay attention to next iPhone launch. Everyone's telling me that every iPhone has to have 5G and OLED, and cutting edge this and that. Very few of them address usability or things like that.

Example, I prefer the day in the life usage videos or camera comparisons perhaps. I'm kind of over the cutting edge geek bench stuff
 
No offense taken, I did not feel targeted at all. You made some great and accurate observations!

I'm just particularly agitated about reviewers right now. I'm gonna thin the amount of reviewers I pay attention to next iPhone launch. Everyone's telling me that every iPhone has to have 5G and OLED, and cutting edge this and that. Very few of them address usability or things like that.

Example, I prefer the day in the life usage videos or camera comparisons perhaps. I'm kind of over the cutting edge geek bench stuff
I’m with you. Hell I felt like peasant walking out of the store with a non-pro yesterday. Sometimes it takes me actually speaking of things like this to a few buddies in order to realize that in reality, no one gives a **** what phone I use. But as I spend time in the threads here, read the comment sections of YouTube, etc…..I’ve learned several things from enthusiasts:
- LCD has no place in 2022
- 60hz has no place in 2022
- 5G is a must, even if you don’t live near it
- a phone should charge from dead to 100% in 10 minutes lol

Give me a high resolution LCD screen and the best cameras offered and I’ll pay whatever is asked. *sigh*

I used to really enjoy Marques Brownlee, Flossy Carter, etc. but it’s all about the specs and how phones stand up to the competition.
 
I’m with you. Hell I felt like peasant walking out of the store with a non-pro yesterday. Sometimes it takes me actually speaking of things like this to a few buddies in order to realize that in reality, no one gives a **** what phone I use. But as I spend time in the threads here, read the comment sections of YouTube, etc…..I’ve learned several things from enthusiasts:
- LCD has no place in 2022
- 60hz has no place in 2022
- 5G is a must, even if you don’t live near it
- a phone should charge from dead to 100% in 10 minutes lol

Give me a high resolution LCD screen and the best cameras offered and I’ll pay whatever is asked. *sigh*

I used to really enjoy Marques Brownlee, Flossy Carter, etc. but it’s all about the specs and how phones stand up to the competition.
Yep. If I recall correctly, a few reviewers were complaining that Apple didn't include 8K video recording this year. WTF? Is that really what we all need? How are you supposed to do anything with files that big on a phone? Even if it had USB-C?

I guess if you're spending well over $1000 on a phone you are taught to expect that stuff.

However, I just wish Apple would give us a utilitarian and modern phone. A modern equivalent to the 11.

Edit: LOL, I realize I probably sound way more upset than I actually am.
Nevertheless, I am going to meditate now. :)
 
Last edited:
I had not had a new iPad since the first 10.5 pro. So wanted the new iPad Pro 12.9 and ordered it. By the time it was set up had that stabbing pain behind my eyes and headache coming on. By day 4 I had to box it up and returned it. Immediately ordered the 11" and it has been great and love it. I sure wanted that big one though, it was fabulous!!!
Which 11" did you get? M2?

When my earlier 12.9s kick the bucket, I'm hoping I can use the M2 11". I want the bigger size, too, but at this point, I'm just hoping for the 11" can do.
 
Yeah the miniLED on the pro 12.9 or MacBook Pro 14/16inch is a no go if you sensitive to OLED. you will get a headache and it will not away. LED backlit screens are just much better for our eyes overall. The worst part about South Africa Apple is that there is a 20 percent penalty when you return a device. I have lost a lot of money due to these display issues.
That's messed up. The product physically hurts you and you have to pay a penalty? I mean, I sorta get it if you've changed your mind or want a different color, but that the device hurts you and you literally have to pay for it?!
 
  • Like
Reactions: 5105973
On all iPhones, even the older LCD models, setting Reduce White Point to somewhere around 60% really helps cut back the obscene ultra vivid brightness & colors. I can’t imagine using any iPhone without it enabled.
I also have Night Shift permanently enabled 24/7 (night & day shift ha!) to a warmer tone that suits me.
When I turn both of those things off / holy crap the display looks very harsh & hellish to me. Definite eye cranker.
I agree on the RWP. Use on that every device I have.
 
Just as a side note, I don't have any issues with the LTPO OLED screens in the Apple watch, I did with the non LTPO versions. So, I guess this could explain why the 14 is better for some, having the LTPO technology baked in.
 
Oh gosh John my post wasn’t directed at anything you said, please don’t think it was. I was just making a blanket observation on posts in general in this thread.

I personally prefer LCD to OLED and wish the transition never happened, above and beyond my eyes.

I respect what everyone says here or I wouldn’t hop in periodically to see what others are saying. I’ve seen the same commentary in Reddit, YouTube comments, etc. Still, we are talking about an industry making trillions of dollars off these phones. Unless studies begin to show actual damage to users of OLED devices (personally I’ve not found anything to substantiate long term or permanent affects), I don’t see a compelling reason for companies to change.

Apple is as shady as the next. They’ll promote their environmental measures in keynotes like they are so concerned about their users and the world in general, and in the same breath try to mandate workers return back to the campus despite showing they could be productive working from home. Guess those car emissions don’t matter as much as removing plastic from the boxes (another cost savings to Apple).

I guess I don’t see change on the horizon because these companies are about the bottom dollar. Period. Keep the shareholders happy. Because let’s face it, the Liquid Retina Display was the greatest thing since sliced bread, until it wasn’t. $$$$$$$

I agree there are people who have no clue it is their phone/tablet/etc causing them issues. But even if they draw the correlation, what percentage do y’all think it would take for companies to address it? Honest question.

Apple could absolutely make a flagship LCD phone, but they choose not to. They could mitigate the OLED issues potentially with DC dimming but they choose not to. It’s disheartening and understandable at the same time. $$$
💯
I cannot disagree with anything you said.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.