Other Eye-strain while using iPhone X and up

[now i see it]

Anyone else thinking of trying the 15 Plus after seeing these results?

I am

 

[john g.]

Yes I do agree but allow me to speak on why we have to do so.

The reason why we have to rely on measurements and numbers is because screen technology is becoming more complex than ever. The concept of a flickering screen verse a flicker free screen no longer exist in today's context.

Instead,they are now on a spectrum where all of them flickers. The question is on how badly it flickers, and whether is that flickering percivable at the said range. Thus the only way we can determine the range of the flicker is to quantify it.

Some may be more affected by it, while some aren't. It is like our weather temperature. To someone living in the far east 26 degrees (or 78 F) is a cool weather but to someone living in the northern europe it is perhaps very hot. We wouldn't know whats really hot or cold unless we quantify in terms of numbers.

Panel variant could be a possibility since it is a well known fact in China. Large companies like Honor or Xiaomi relies on two or more suppliers. When the experience delivered by different screen suppliers distinctly varies, it is called "screen lottery". This was how the term first originated from.

Apple could well be using from different screen suppliers and we wouldn't know if there is a lottery unless we quantify them through measurement

I like your post and I agree with it. The trouble I see is trying to standardize some testing. It seems like the measurements have been all over the place. Particularly from notebook check and other random sources. Also, it seems like PWM isn't everything with these OLED screens. Dithering, and even promotion for some folks. So while I agree with everything you said; I still feel like numbers are great, but I'm still not gonna know what works for me until I try it out for a week.

I know that sounds like common sense, but I have not known which measurements to trust.

 

[now i see it]

Also another factor to mix everything up, Joz during his presentation of the 15PM, spent quite a while extolling the virtues of the new GPU in the Pro iPhones. Mentioning something like it was the biggest redesign of iPhone GPU in the history of iPhone.
I know from experience on a computer that upgrading a graphics card (GPU) can make the display look different - usually better.
So its not correct to say that the 14 and 15 iPhone screens are essentially the same because the GPU driving those two phones is radically different.

 

[john g.]

Also another factor to mix everything up, Joz during his presentation of the 15PM, spent quite a while extolling the virtues of the new GPU in the Pro iPhones. Mentioning something like it was the biggest redesign of iPhone GPU in the history of iPhone.
I know from experience on a computer that upgrading a graphics card (GPU) can make the display look different - usually better.
So its not correct to say that the 14 and 15 iPhone screens are essentially the same because the GPU driving those two phones is radically different.

Yes, but doesn't that just apply to the pro models? I wasn't aware that the regular 15 and 15+ got any GPU improvements

 

[from reddit the_top_g]

I like your post and I agree with it. The trouble I see is trying to standardize some testing. It seems like the measurements have been all over the place. Particularly from notebook check and other random sources. Also, it seems like PWM isn't everything with these OLED screens. Dithering, and even promotion for some folks. So while I agree with everything you said; I still feel like numbers are great, but I'm still not gonna know what works for me until I try it out for a week.

I do agree that when the sources are becoming saturated, especially from the likes of trusted sources like notebookcheck where they reported good news and we're still getting symptoms from it.

It would be great if return policy is available in every country though!

As right now I am looking at 8 different phones in front of me with a usage time of less than 5 hours each. It's not even more than a day per se and I can't use them anymore because of severe headaches.

 

[The.Glorious.Son]

I hour in on the 15 PM and zero issues. None. Now that could and probably will change. But I can also tell you this is an absolute first for me. Not even eye fatigue.

 

[johnscully]

Is iOS 17 better regarding eye strain than iOS 16? I am still on iOS 15 with my iPhone SE (2020) as iPadOS 16 made my iPad practically unusable.

 

[john g.]

I do agree that when the sources are becoming saturated, especially from the likes of trusted sources like notebookcheck where they reported good news and we're still getting symptoms from it.

It would be great if return policy is available in every country though!

As right now I am looking at 8 different phones in front of me with a usage time of less than 5 hours each. It's not even more than a day per se and I can't use them anymore because of severe headaches.

I appreciate your hard work at testing these things. I'm sorry it comes at the cost of physical discomfort!

 

[Artvandelay1212]

I am

I wish us both luck!

 

[MICHAELSD]

I’m 99% sure looking at the data posted here that staring at an iPhone 15 Pro later today will just result in the same 24/7 throbbing headaches.

Yet there’s still a temptation pulling me towards wanting to try it. My iPhone SE has a cracked screen, and I’d rather trade it than repair it.

If there was a major change or difference, like amplitudes below 1% and/or a higher PWM rate, it could be worth a try. For now there’s really no data indicating a major upgrade or Accessibility workaround.

I’m instead becoming more convinced that this may not be fixed, and we might still have another 4-5 years of flickering iPhones we can’t use. I’m optimistic about MicroLED, but there’s also the off chance that PWM will be nearly as intrusive as modern OLED.

A flagship OLED iPhone with some sort of flicker-free setting I would hold on to for years… I’m still surprised there’s not even a Cydia mod, but that comes down to whether users can modify the brightness controller via software—probably not.

It’s doubly frustrating since it’s not even that I’m PWM-sensitive in everyday life: flickering displays, projectors, etc. are perfectly fine to me otherwise. How many users are sensitive to PWM-based transit schedules? Probably not many.

Only these flickering iPhones, and even Mini-LED Mac’s to a lesser extent, cause me any sort of sensitivity.

My brain is remembering that constant PWM throbbing and we have a potential hurricane brewing so I’m not too sure about iPhone 15 Pro: it feels more like wasted time and another device I’ll love that I can’t keep. Sighs in iPhone 15.

 

[MICHAELSD]

I do agree that when the sources are becoming saturated, especially from the likes of trusted sources like notebookcheck where they reported good news and we're still getting symptoms from it.

It would be great if return policy is available in every country though!

As right now I am looking at 8 different phones in front of me with a usage time of less than 5 hours each. It's not even more than a day per se and I can't use them anymore because of severe headaches.

Thank you so much for being the first source with PWM measurements. We look forward to future insights and unique perspectives.

Would you be able to test an iPhone 13 mini out of curiosity as well as newer smartphones like the Motorola Razr+ with/without the Flicker Reduction as well as the Galaxy Fold/Flip?

Before the line/suggestion inbox gets too large.

 

[now i see it]

My brain is remembering that constant PWM throbbing

At some point some of us have to draw the line and say no.
For some of us, an OLED display on any device is a no-go.

Gotta remember that if iPhones didn't have cameras, most people wouldn't upgrade as often as they do. Nothing much changes except the camera and SOC.

Pro Tip:
Buy a real camera that's only a camera. It will take superior pictures to an iPhone probably for 20 years... then you'll discover that there's suddenly little reason to upgrade an iPhone.

 

[fzJNotIBOxgnbqejSeVCvJScL]

Finally got some time to drop by a store for a short test with the Radex Lupin. They had the 15, 15 Pro, and 15 Pro Max on display; the 15 Plus was missing (this was an electronics store, not an Apple Store).

Here are the test results; all measurements were taken with auto brightness off; RWP measurements were taken at 100% brightness.

Model	100%	75%	50%	25%	RWP 25%	RWP 50%	RWP 75%	RWP 90%
iPhone 15	5.2	6.5	10	12	5	5	5.2	7
iPhone 15 Pro	12.3	13.5	16.2	19	12.7	13.5	14.9	17.3

My previous measurements of the 14 range are here: iPhone 14 measurements

The 15 Pro Max was essentially the same as the 15 Pro.

Note: The brightness settings are a rough estimation (i.e. what brightness it is, since the slider doesn't show any percentage; so it is possible that there is a bit of +/- movement regarding what exact brightness the phone was at).

Note 2: Interestingly, just measuring a 14 that I have at home, here are its values (here, I use a shortcut to set the brightness directly, so the brightness setting can be assumed to be accurate):

Model	100%	75%	50%	25%	RWP 25%	RWP 50%	RWP 75%	RWP 90%
iPhone 14	4	6.8	9.9	12	3.9	4.2	4.8	6.8

These are slightly different to the measurements I've taken in my previous link above, but I think that is probably explained by the brightness slider inaccuracy.

Note 3: RWP 95% on the iPhone 14 measures ~8.4.

Preliminary conclusion: It seems that the 14 and 15 are aligned, as well as the 14 Pro and the 15 Pro. Minor differences in values, I would suggest are explained by the difference between in store measurement with a brightness slider, and using a shortcut for the 14 that I have at home.

I think if one was to give a model a go, then the 15/15 Plus would be the ones, and run it at 100% brightness, with a RWP setting that isn't too bright. The Radex Lupin manual says that measurement for office monitors should not exceed 5%, and light flickering for visually focused tasks should not exceed 10%. Light flickering up to 20% for all other tasks is acceptable, according to the manual.

So, potentially 100% brightness, with an RWP between 75% and 90%, and use Night Shift/Colour Filters to adjust intensity/colours, may be the best bet to try, at least based on these measurements, and not accounting for people's different reactions.

@from reddit the_top_g
@melliflu

Can you confirm that the iPhone 15 and iPhone 15 Plus displays each operate at 480 Hz PWM?

Then both would be "PWM safe" as long as the modulation depth does not exceed 7.68 Hz, right?

In any case: Thanks for your work!

 

[from reddit the_top_g]

Thank you so much for being the first source with PWM measurements. We look forward to future insights and unique perspectives.

Would you be able to test an iPhone 13 mini out of curiosity as well as newer smartphones like the Motorola Razr+ with/without the Flicker Reduction as well as the Galaxy Fold/Flip?

Before the line/suggestion inbox gets too large.

Oh you have probably thought too highly of me! I am just as equal as everyone here.

For iphone 13 mini, that might be difficult as it is now obselete here from where I'm here.

With the Motorola Razr+ I have no access either.

With most samsung oled smartphone though, I tend to avoid even looking at them because its flickers often triggers my epileptic like seizures. Thus I've developed a fear of even looking at it, to be honest!

 

[PurpleIsAFruit]

I see some people recommending 100% brightness and a high RWP. Doesn't that absolutely drain the battery?

 

[1369281]

Oh you have probably thought too highly of me! I am just as equal as everyone here.

For iphone 13 mini, that might be difficult as it is now obselete here from where I'm here.

With the Motorola Razr+ I have no access either.

With most samsung oled smartphone though, I tend to avoid even looking at them because its flickers often triggers my epileptic like seizures. Thus I've developed a fear of even looking at it, to be honest!

Welcome to the party!

Thanks so much for joining us.

The current go-to phones for us have been iPhone SE (2022) and iPhone 11. It would be wonderful if you did an analysis of those phones so that we have a baseline (ideal state) to compare to the current and future OLED and MicroLED phones. No worries if that is not possible. It would just be a nice to have. Thank you!

 

[MICHAELSD]

Anyone else thinking of trying the 15 Plus after seeing these results? I had no plans to order anything but I'm thinking of giving it a shot. I had the 14PM last year and returned it. I never tried the 100% brightness and 80-90% RWP setting though, so I want to try it on this phone and see how I tolerate it.

I have an idea about disabling auto-brightness the second that the iPhone is removed from the box, this may even be possible during setup as Apple allows for some Accessibility customization, then using Reduce White Point exclusively. The point on Pro models is to avoid exposure to varying frequencies, as 100% was measured as the most stable sine wave by far.

iPhone 15 Pro allows for the Action button to toggle Accessibility settings, so while this is a boring use of the function it may make a difference in the usability of switching it on and off.

We are doing quite a bit to barely make these iPhones usable, but going a step further would be Shortcuts that automatically change the brightness or possibly even the Reduce White Point settings at different times during the day.

 

[jimmy_uk]

Good luck to all who plan on trying a new device. I apologise if I’ve killed off anyone’s hopes.

I’m pretty down about the whole thing once again as this is the 6th year of no hope for me. Right now the back of my eyes are still throbbing and I have brain fog + tension. After returning the 15PM, my day has been a right off - so please be careful, think of your health. 🙏

 

[MICHAELSD]

I see some people recommending 100% brightness and a high RWP. Doesn't that absolutely drain the battery?

The batteries are so large on these devices that this shouldn’t create a real-world concern. There are people out there that un-ironically run their devices at 100% brightness all the time just because they enjoy a bright display, example: Flossy Carter.

I am slightly curious of the difference, but if this helps reduce PWM I would take any hit to the battery. If it’s a concern, then go for the Plus/Max as they should still last all-day.

 

[MICHAELSD]

Good luck to all who plan on trying a new device. I apologise if I’ve killed off anyone’s hopes.

I’m pretty down about the whole thing once again as this is the 6th year of no hope for me. Right now the back of my eyes are throbbing and I have brain fog + tension. After returning the 15PM, my day has been a right off - so please be careful, think of your health. 🙏

I am worried realistically since there’s not enough that seems to be changed for it to be any different this year.

I’ve already tried every combination of Accessibility/brightness settings and Shortcuts on previous OLED iPhones.

At least my consolation is that the iPad Pro 11” has a lovely Liquid Retina display without PWM, which is quite possibly the nicest LCD that Apple has shipped. The M2 chip should also be able to run standout apps like Resident Evil: Village, although in retrospect maybe I should have gotten more storage—I am curious how developers/Apple will handle this since so many devices have limited storage already.

I still wish for a flicker-free Accessibility setting where there’s zero flicker at all, as I would love to be using these new iPhones and any flicker is absolutely detrimental to our health. But the definition of insanity is doing the same task over and over and expecting a different result, and that applies here: I can’t count how many times I’ve powered off my iPhone and thought that it would be okay to use next time it was powered on at I.e. 100% brightness using Reduce White Point, or purchased an iPhone thinking that it would be better and usable this generation. It’s probably not.

 

[Artvandelay1212]

I have an idea about disabling auto-brightness the second that the iPhone is removed from the box, this may even be possible during setup as Apple allows for some Accessibility customization, then using Reduce White Point exclusively. The point on Pro models is to avoid exposure to varying frequencies, as 100% was measured as the most stable sine wave by far.

iPhone 15 Pro allows for the Action button to toggle Accessibility settings, so while this is a boring use of the function it may make a difference in the usability of switching it on and off.

We are doing quite a bit to barely make these iPhones usable, but going a step further would be Shortcuts that automatically change the brightness or possibly even the Reduce White Point settings at different times during the day.

Going to the Apple Store in a bit and picking up the 15 Plus and immediately setting the brightness at 100% and the RWP between 80 and 90% with the auto brightness off. I'm cautiously optimistic.

 

[MICHAELSD]

At some point some of us have to draw the line and say no.
For some of us, an OLED display on any device is a no-go.

Gotta remember that if iPhones didn't have cameras, most people wouldn't upgrade as often as they do. Nothing much changes except the camera and SOC.

Pro Tip:
Buy a real camera that's only a camera. It will take superior pictures to an iPhone probably for 20 years... then you'll discover that there's suddenly little reason to upgrade an iPhone.

I did buy a Canon M200 on clearance recently, and expect phenomenal quality out of it.

But after reviewing videos of the cameras on iPhone 15 Pro Max, the convenience factor of having that type of quality and surprising stability an Action button away outweighs the larger sensor of the M200 IMHO; frankly, most consumers must agree which is probably why it went on clearance.

That being said, there are ways to live without an OLED iPhone while still having a high-quality camera system as well as the latest Apple silicon. While I am worried about the future of iPhone/Mac/iPad as I still really want an OLED or better display, let’s live in the present moment for now.

If I can figure out what do with my third-generation iPhone SE, which is quite brutally cracked and I don’t feel the desire to repair it—I didn’t even buy AppleCare when I could have as this started early into my ownership experience, then I could probably wait it out for another few years.

The Motorola Razr+ with a flicker reduction setting is tempting, although I do have to say that I have some concerns about longevity and resale value that I wouldn’t have with an iPhone.

 

[Populus]

I am worried realistically since there’s not enough that seems to be changed for it to be any different this year.

I’ve already tried every combination of Accessibility/brightness settings and Shortcuts on previous OLED iPhones.

At least my consolation is that the iPad Pro 11” has a lovely Liquid Retina display without PWM, which is quite possibly the nicest LCD that Apple has shipped. The M2 chip should also be able to run standout apps like Resident Evil: Village, although in retrospect maybe I should have gotten more storage—I am curious how developers/Apple will handle this since so many devices have limited storage already.

I still wish for a flicker-free Accessibility setting where there’s zero flicker at all, as I would love to be using these new iPhones and any flicker is absolutely detrimental to our health. But the definition of insanity is doing the same task over and over and expecting a different result, and that applies here: I can’t count how many times I’ve powered off my iPhone and thought that it would be okay to use next time it was powered on at I.e. 100% brightness using Reduce White Point, or purchased an iPhone thinking that it would be better and usable this generation. It’s probably not.

I do too, but sadly, there’s no clue for this to happen.

Today I’ve been on the Apple Store, and the iPhone 15 didn’t feel quite right. It’s difficult to notice it in just 10 minutes, but I didn’t feel too comfortable with the brightness at 20%.

I tested the screen with a high sensitivity / high framerate video app, and the flicker was the same as past year’s devices, both the Pro and the regular iPhone.

At this point, I’m seriously considering getting a 128GB iPhone SE 3, and sticking with it, because in addition to PWM, the iPhone 15 (which is gorgeous in person, both the green and the black ones) it’s way too big for my hand.

The SE 3, with the same shape and weight of my iPhone 8, feels sooo good and comfortable in one hand, that I’ve decided to stick with that, and forget about new technologies or better cameras.

My only gripe with the SE 3 is that there’s also a screen lottery, where some screens are significantly dimmer than my iPhone 8, and other screens have almost the same brightness as my iPhone 8. So I guess this Christmas is iPhone SE 3 lottery time!

PS: I also have an excellent M2 11” iPad Pro, @MICHAELSD, with a gorgeous screen that, as you said, could be the best LCD Apple has ever shipped. Let’s hope it has a long, long support time!

 

[now i see it]

Samsung has sunk billions and billions of Won into its OLED manufacturing. They are fully committed to it and dependent on it. Samsung makes the OLED displays for apple and google and others - hundred of millions per year. Apple's hands may be tied as to what they can accomplish with OLED since the displays are made by Samsung.

 

[DJTaurus]

Going to the Apple Store in a bit and picking up the 15 Plus and immediately setting the brightness at 100% and the RWP between 80 and 90% with the auto brightness off. I'm cautiously optimistic.

We are all waiting your tomorrow findings