iPhone 11 feels so heavy and bulky. iPhone 15 feels like a perfect size and weight. Such a shame.
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Other Eye-strain while using iPhone X and up
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Speaking of Android, I've been pleased with the Razr + foldable. I use it a couple of hours a day with just minimal discomfort after extended use. One Plus 12 expected in January with PWM dimming features.
Do you use Flicker Prevention?
The Razr+ was better than any iPhone, but still caused sensitivity. I’m thinking about trying the standard Razr as well in case it’s any different.
The standard Razr is supposed to be even better. Yes there is sensitivity but much better than other phones. I can't even look at the Samsung foldable it is so bad. In any case I'm not using phones as much as I used to. But we all need one. And this is the best option for me. Yes I use the flicker free setting but I can't say I've done an A>>>B test of it.
I think we need an eloquently-written document that explains exactly what this eye-strain situation is so that we can copy and paste it when needed. The doc should include a brief high-level summary, history and full explanation of the issue, measurements/test data, a list of common responses from morons who deny this is a real issue, etc. I just think we need to formalize this better if we want to seriously change anything. I might take a stab at it. I just returned my iPhone 15 to the Apple Store and explained to the person it gave me headaches and she looked and reacted so confused. And she didn’t want to hear ANYTHING about the issue. So frustrating.
iPhone SE — no PWM, no TLM, and no issues
OLED iPhones — PWM and TLM, and they give eyestrain headaches nausea etc.
We know what the root cause is but they won’t acknowledge it as an issue.
iPhone SE — no PWM, no TLM, and no issues
OLED iPhones — PWM and TLM, and they give eyestrain headaches nausea etc.
We know what the root cause is but they won’t acknowledge it as an issue.
Let me know how you get on with the Pixel 8 Pro. I tried the Pixel 7 pro but got eye strain. Is this better?
I think it’s similar to the candy bar issue.
If 2% of the population is allergic to peanuts, does that mean Mars Corp is going to change the recipe for Snickers candy bars and remove the peanuts from their 3 billion dollar business?
Of course not.
“If you’re allergic to the ingredients in Snickers candy bars, don’t eat them”.
If 2% of the population is allergic to peanuts, does that mean Mars Corp is going to change the recipe for Snickers candy bars and remove the peanuts from their 3 billion dollar business?
Of course not.
“If you’re allergic to the ingredients in Snickers candy bars, don’t eat them”.
It’s a good example, but not totally apples-to-apples. In our case, 2% were not allergic to Snickers candy bars, but then they changed something to make 2% of us allergic. OLED/PWM/TLM is not an essential, irreplaceable ingredient in the product.
And I somehow doubt Mars would move forward with changing even more products if 2% of their customers couldn’t consume them when there is an arguably better alternative.
I just imagine some Apple engineering leader making this conscious decision to use PWM in products just to add a few minutes to battery life and it pisses me off.
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At this point --many years, over 10,000 posts and a bustling Reddit community later-- has there really not been one single major news outlet who has interviewed some engineers or eye health experts to weigh in? With the way the Apple news community functions, it doesn't even make sense. Totally unfounded rumor posted on obscure social media network? Run it! PWM? Stay away!
Definitely much nicer than the Google Pixel 7 Pro.
Now on the second day I have mild signs that I feel.
However, the bigger problem is still Android, I don't like it.
I know what you mean. I’ve been using an s23 ultra for a few months now. It’s a great phone but it’s android. Plus though it’s more comfortable than any oled iPhone I’ve used, I do still get mild headaches. Trying an Honor Magic 5 pro tomorrow and if that’s no good, I’ll probably go back to 2014 and get an SE 3 😀
I’ve been trying to pinpoint exactly why we’re sensitive to PWM.
I’ve heard theories that it’s genetic, but I firmly don’t believe that to be true. My sister uses an iPhone 13 mini with no issues, and my father has a Galaxy Fold.
Then there’s the situational aspect. I purchased the very first iPhone at age 12 within two weeks of its release, after watching the Steve Jobs keynote probably about twenty times.
I used the first-generation iPhone for about 4-6 hours per day, then upgraded to iPhone 3G on launch day. Ah, the lines. The excitement.
Repeat that process every year. New iPhone. Easily getting 4-6 hours of usage per day, which probably increased gradually with each new iPhone. That’s a larger narrative and issue with smartphones taking up our time, which nonetheless isn’t the topic at hand.
My usage probably got out of hand with iPhone 7 Plus, as I started using it for about a full hour upon waking up then for several hours throughout the day, partially as a distraction mechanism.
However, if we were to analyze average smartphone usage I don’t think any of that is that out of the ordinary. Perhaps my own lifestyle habits like going to bed at early morning hours after being on electronics all-night and periods of inadequate sunlight also contributed, but it’s difficult to say with certainty.
I still don’t believe that there’s any fault or flaw with us. We’re not deficient, or handicapped to use a more specific word, in any way. A display doesn’t have to flicker. We are incredibly perceptible, picking up on flicker that is absolutely there thrashing our nervous systems at a certain multiple and flicker depth per second.
So it’s probably a combination of a ton of factors. But, and I don’t mention this often nor have I ever gone into detail in this thread, I think that Apple was correct: I got used to the display not flickering, and now that it does I experience severe issues. Unfortunately, they haven’t prioritized a concrete solution to date, despite becoming slightly more cognizant in my opinion, but I am still optimistic even after several years and honestly hold no animosity over this. It’s going to be quite a feeling owning a modern flagship iPhone that doesn’t cause headaches again, even if that’s iPhone 20.
I’ve heard theories that it’s genetic, but I firmly don’t believe that to be true. My sister uses an iPhone 13 mini with no issues, and my father has a Galaxy Fold.
Then there’s the situational aspect. I purchased the very first iPhone at age 12 within two weeks of its release, after watching the Steve Jobs keynote probably about twenty times.
I used the first-generation iPhone for about 4-6 hours per day, then upgraded to iPhone 3G on launch day. Ah, the lines. The excitement.
Repeat that process every year. New iPhone. Easily getting 4-6 hours of usage per day, which probably increased gradually with each new iPhone. That’s a larger narrative and issue with smartphones taking up our time, which nonetheless isn’t the topic at hand.
My usage probably got out of hand with iPhone 7 Plus, as I started using it for about a full hour upon waking up then for several hours throughout the day, partially as a distraction mechanism.
However, if we were to analyze average smartphone usage I don’t think any of that is that out of the ordinary. Perhaps my own lifestyle habits like going to bed at early morning hours after being on electronics all-night and periods of inadequate sunlight also contributed, but it’s difficult to say with certainty.
I still don’t believe that there’s any fault or flaw with us. We’re not deficient, or handicapped to use a more specific word, in any way. A display doesn’t have to flicker. We are incredibly perceptible, picking up on flicker that is absolutely there thrashing our nervous systems at a certain multiple and flicker depth per second.
So it’s probably a combination of a ton of factors. But, and I don’t mention this often nor have I ever gone into detail in this thread, I think that Apple was correct: I got used to the display not flickering, and now that it does I experience severe issues. Unfortunately, they haven’t prioritized a concrete solution to date, despite becoming slightly more cognizant in my opinion, but I am still optimistic even after several years and honestly hold no animosity over this. It’s going to be quite a feeling owning a modern flagship iPhone that doesn’t cause headaches again, even if that’s iPhone 20.
Of course, if you spend hours on your iPhone you will always run into problems at some point.
I'm someone who makes sure that I don't spend hours on my iPhone pointlessly.
However, I didn't grow up with smartphones either. I had my first cell phone (Siemens C25) when I was 25.
I only got a smartphone when everyone else had had a smartphone for years.
You should only pick up an iPhone when you need it, and not pointlessly at every opportunity.
Long story short, I love my iPhone 15 Pro Max, which still doesn't give me any problems.
With the battery I always get 4-5 days of normal use. So I'm not on it for hours a day.
I'm someone who makes sure that I don't spend hours on my iPhone pointlessly.
However, I didn't grow up with smartphones either. I had my first cell phone (Siemens C25) when I was 25.
I only got a smartphone when everyone else had had a smartphone for years.
You should only pick up an iPhone when you need it, and not pointlessly at every opportunity.
Long story short, I love my iPhone 15 Pro Max, which still doesn't give me any problems.
With the battery I always get 4-5 days of normal use. So I'm not on it for hours a day.
It's a complicated and almost philosophical topic. But an important one.
My family all use OLED displays without bitching about it. But the other day I talked with my dad, who just bought an iPhone 15, about PWM and he said he often had burning eyes looking at the screen in bed. Maybe he's sensitive to it too but just didn't make the association. I suspect a lot of people are intolerant to OLED but an intolerance isn't like being allergic to it. So they can successfully use the device, but it's not the best case scenario. A lot of people wear shoes that aren't adapted to their feet because they are too narrow. But guess what? They want to fit in, and since Adidas or Pumas are more fashionable than New Balance, they wear what's fashionable. Even if today my sentiment is that objects had to adapt to humans and not the other way around, I can understand the social pressure to fit in... especially for teenagers. The green and blue bubbles is a big one, so big that over 90% of teenagers prefer iOS to Android.
Unfortunately I am not as optimistic as you are, simply because Apple can be extremely stubborn with their devices and their philosophy...
Butterfly keyboards : Apple came up with those shallow keyboard and thought they reinvented the wheel. They quickly proven to be uncomfortable to type on and very sensitive to dust and real world conditions. People FLOODED Youtube with examples of failure. But they kept making those for about 6-7 years in a row. They litteraly had to have lawsuits to stop fitting those horrible keyboards on their computers.
Lightning cables on iPhones : USB-C is the (not so) new standard for charging and data transfer. Every manufacturer agreed to make their devices using this standard, so it's easier for the consumer to manage cables. Apple make a lot of money on their lightning cables and royalties... Europe had to have laws and regulations to force the switch to USB-C on their phones.
Antennagate : The iPhone 4 faced criticism for its antenna design, which led to dropped calls when users held the phone in a specific way. Apple initially responded by suggesting users hold the phone differently or use a case. Eventually, Apple held a press conference and offered free cases or full refunds.
Macbook Pro USB-C only a.k.a. "Dongle life" : remember when the Macbook only came with USB-C overnight? Pro users complained for years about this. Years! Artists, photographers and vloggers wanted more ports, HDMI and SD card readers. But Apple didn't care at all.
Touch bar : they finally phased it out, but the touch bar was a failure and never been adopted by the public. People complained that it too space on the keyboard, that it increased the price, that it failed. Developers lost their escape keys. Apple didn't care.
Batterygate (iPhone slowdown issue): Apple faced backlash when it was revealed that the company had implemented a feature in iOS updates to slow down the performance of older iPhones with degraded batteries to prevent unexpected shutdowns. Apple's lack of transparency about this practice led to lawsuits and public outcry. As a response, Apple apologized and introduced a discounted battery replacement program...
App Store Policies and Epic Games Lawsuit (2020): Apple's App Store policies, particularly the 30% commission on in-app purchases, came under scrutiny. In 2020, Epic Games, the developer of Fortnite, intentionally violated Apple's policies, leading to the removal of Fortnite from the App Store. This sparked a legal battle between Apple and Epic Games, challenging Apple's control over the App Store and its commission structure.
Right to Repair Movement: Apple has been criticized for its stance on repairability. Their products are often challenging to repair, and they discourages third-party repairs. This has led to debates about the "right to repair," with calls for legislation that would make it easier for consumers to repair their devices and for third-party repair shops to access necessary parts and information.
Those are only a couple of examples to show that Apple has a very precise way of seeing things. The bottom line is, they just aren't as permeable to criticism as other, smaller companies.
So far, PWM stayed under the radar. My guess is, genetic or not, most people don't suffer about it like we do. So Apple will keep using OLED in the foreseeable future because this is a flexible technology, the colours are vibrant and it's getting cheaper because of the mass adoption. With Apple, I just don't see it changing unless there is public outcry.
Now, the real question is, how far will we stick with it? How long are we going to act like battered women about it? The iPhone 11 is becoming ancient and the SE4 will be OLED... hell the new iPads and Macbooks are also getting OLED !!!
So there is 2 choices :
- Keep buying Apple products, and Apple has no incentive to change and we end up with products that make us suffer.
- Stop buying Apple products, and Apple don't care either. But... we look around and hopefully find products that respect our anatomy.
That being said, for me, the problem here is attachment. To a brand, to Macs and to our computing memories, to beautiful software and quality hardware, to learned shortcuts and workflows, to our identity as an Apple person and to an ecosystem... Change is uncomfortable and the Stockhold syndrome is very real.
The day we realize there is a world of hardware and software out there, out of Apple products, we can grow out of this problem and start getting comfortable devices again. Until we detach ourselves with the brand, there will be no rest.
With all that said, OLED is becoming the default display for all devices and Samsung, LG and BOE are the main mass manafactuers. PWM has to be used and I don't see these manafactuers making the changes we need. So even if we escape the Apple camp, where do we go? What devices are actually safe to use as I've spent years reading the threads and I just don't see any Android devices that will be good for everyone. This isn't an Apple specific issue, it's the application of the display technologies across the board.
I only want to invest in a brand that can be held to account by USA and European laws - Samsung, Google, Apple, Motorola USA/UK, and they are not making the changes we need. Personally I don't want a Chinese State manufactured phone/tablet/laptop that potentially has back doors built in. Currently it looks like some of these Chinese phones/devices are working on improving display technology regarding eye health, although it doesn't look like they've cracked it yet, but there is a question over our data security.
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I understand your sentiment and it's indeed a ****** position to be in. Like MKBHD says, good phones are getting cheap, and cheap phones are getting good (or something like that).
There is a ton of phones that still use LCD screens and most of them are mid-tier phones or budget phones. But budget phones are getting incredibly good to use these days. Of course there is no comparison with Apple silicon and that would be felt like a downgrade if you benchmark with this... Personnaly I don't feel like I need a phone where I can edit 4K videos on. We're all tech fans here and we all marvel at technology, but let's be realistic here. Phones don't need to be that fast to be fluid. Raw speed is a concession I'm ready to make to keep my eyes comfortable.
As for the future, I don't see LCD screens being discontinued for a long long time, thanks to countries like China or India that will always need cheaper phones.
Quality LCD is quickly becoming niche and thus expensive which is why adoption of OLED is increasing along with the use of poorer quality LCD. Apple clearly cheaped out on the display in the iPad Mini 6 for example and will be going all OLED from next year. And that's a real shame as Apple had a good run with LCD (before DCI-P3 dithering).
I'd take a mid-tier 1080p+ LCD phone (with stereo speakers) if it was made by a "trusted" brand that wasn't Chinese and was better than my iPhone 11. I don't see my options in the UK.
I think clamoring for LCD phones is not the way forward. Demanding options in OLED configurations while accepting the risks should be a consumer CHOICE.
I've seen all kinds of arguments as to why flickering is used (to prevent burn in, save battery, preserve color integrity, etc.), but I would like to choose to accept any negative outcomes if I want to turn it off.
OLED TVs do not use flickering, only a small dip in brightness corresponding with the refresh rate, and the sky doesn't seem to be falling.
I've seen all kinds of arguments as to why flickering is used (to prevent burn in, save battery, preserve color integrity, etc.), but I would like to choose to accept any negative outcomes if I want to turn it off.
OLED TVs do not use flickering, only a small dip in brightness corresponding with the refresh rate, and the sky doesn't seem to be falling.
A friend had a XS Max that I noticed the flickering right off in dim light.
I asked him about it and he couldn’t detect it at all.
So people’s visual perception is different.
Hi everyone. I have been using my iPhone se 2020 for 3 years now with no problems but the battery is getting bad. If I get a new iPhone se 2022 will I have any problems or since I don’t with 2020 I should be fine? I am someone who is does have sensitive eyes. Thanks
You should be fine although some are reporting the iOS 17 may have introduced dithering to the XR, 11 and SE. I’ve not updated my 11 through fear of this.