Firmware Tool for 4,1 to 5,1 upgrade

[h9826790]

I've always been told the non-ECC ram will not work on Mac Pros. I have a 3,1 and a 5,1. I bought non-ECC ram for my 3,1 (they were cheaper than proprietary Mac ram), and my system wouldn't boot properly. That's when I was told Mac Pros won't work with non-ECC ram. Plus I use my systems for Graphics and editing work. So ECC is a must for me.

3,1 is another story, 4,1 (and 5,1) is not that picky about RAM. Anyway, I did the test few months ago. The result is here.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/can-i-mix-memory-size.1903411/#post-21638766

I mix ECC with non ECC, 1333 with 1066, 2G with 8G sticks, in the non optimum configuration (everything at the same time). The system (4,1 flashed 5,1) can still boot and work properly.

I am not recommending this to anyone, but it just can be done. My system run with 4x8G non ECC RAM for more than a years already, zero trouble. Sure ECC RAM is better than non ECC RAM, but for video editing, it may be not that "bullet proof" because our VRAM is not ECC, which plays an important parts for video editing.

 

[gslrider]

3,1 is another story, 4,1 (and 5,1) is not that picky about RAM. Anyway, I did the test few months ago. The result is here.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/can-i-mix-memory-size.1903411/#post-21638766

I mix ECC with non ECC, 1333 with 1066, 2G with 8G sticks, in the non optimum configuration (everything at the same time). The system (4,1 flashed 5,1) can still boot and work properly.

I am not recommending this to anyone, but it just can be done. My system run with 4x8G non ECC RAM for more than a years already, zero trouble. Sure ECC RAM is better than non ECC RAM, but for video editing, it may be not that "bullet proof" because our VRAM is not ECC, which plays an important parts for video editing.

Very interesting. Thanks! I may just have to give non-ECC ram a go on my 5,1. I currently have 32GB of ram (all slots filled). Most I can get for ECC is 8GB sticks. But I've seen 16GB sticks for non-ECC ram DDR3 1066 or 1333, and affordable. Would love to swap the 4x8GB to 4x16GB. Unless I'm wrong that the 4,1 and 5,1 can be maxed at 64GB of ram.

 

[h9826790]

Very interesting. Thanks! I may just have to give non-ECC ram a go on my 5,1. I currently have 32GB of ram (all slots filled). Most I can get for ECC is 8GB sticks. But I've seen 16GB sticks for non-ECC ram DDR3 1066 or 1333, and affordable. Would love to swap the 4x8GB to 4x16GB. Unless I'm wrong that the 4,1 and 5,1 can be maxed at 64GB of ram.

Check your CPU before you do that, only the X56xx support 4x16G RAM. The W36xx CPU can only support up to 3x16+8=56G RAM.

Also, you can't mix UDIMM with RDIMM, I am quite sure the 16G is RDIMM, and if your 8G is UDIMM, you can't mix them together. Otherwise, no boot.

I am roughly in the same situation as yours. I am planing to upgrade my RAM now. I went for the 4x8G non ECC because it was cheap. I was not that familiar with memory spec / restriction 2 years ago. Lucky I didn't go for 4x16G at that moment (my CPU is the W3690). And now I am trying to get some cheap RAM from china. Cost about $155 for 3x16G new 1333MHz CL9 1.5V 2Rx4 PC3-10600R ECC RDIMM. I think this is a pretty good deal, upgrade from 32G to 48G, from non ECC back to ECC, and from non optimum to optimum (3 channel) configuration. Those RAM are server memory, not specifically made for Mac Pro, but should be fine.

 

[ActionableMango]

@h9826790, back when you mixed all those different RAM types, was there noticeably very high fan speed?

 

[h9826790]

@h9826790, back when you mixed all those different RAM types, was there noticeably very high fan speed?

Have to test that again later. I was using some fan control software, that may suppressed the abnormal fan speed (if any).

From memory, my fan speed was normal. That's with the fan control software which will raise the minimum fan speed when the CPU is warm. PCIe fan and PSU fan setting was native by that time. And the CPU target fan speed is also untouched.

AFAIK, OSX will raise the target fan speed when the system believe it's required. That's why I only raise the minimum fan speed in my own setting, but leave the target fan speed untouched. So that both my setting or the system can spin up the fan. The higher fan speed always win.

I am quite sensitive to the fan noise. And I didn't notice any higher fan noise when I was mixing the RAM. Therefore, I believe that didn't affect the fan speed.

 

[ActionableMango]

The reason why I ask is that someone mentioned using non-ECC (and therefore non-server) RAM which resulted in having the fan speed increase to max. Speculation was that the non-server RAM didn't have the temperature sensor, which made the Mac default to max fan speed for safety since it didn't know the temperature.

I don't know if fan control software would affect that or not. If it sees a higher temperature I would expect it to increase RPM, but if it sees no temperature at all?

 

[h9826790]

Okay, the reason why I ask is that someone mentioned using non-ECC (and therefore non-server) RAM which resulted in having the fan speed increase to max. Speculation was that the non-server RAM didn't have the temperature sensor, which made the Mac default to max fan speed for safety since it didn't know the temperature.

I don't know if fan control software would affect that or not. If it sees a higher temperature I would expect it to increase RPM, but if it sees no temperature at all?

I see, then I don't think the 4,1 will react to that. My 4,1 almost never run with ECC / server only memory since 2009.

Initially, it came with 3x2G Apple ECC RAM, but only few days later, I add the extra non ECC 2G stick to the 4th slot. And overall I'd try

1) 3x2G ECC
2) 3x2G ECC + 2G non ECC
3) 4x4G non ECC
4) 3x4G non ECC + 2G ECC
5) 2x4G non ECC + 2x2G ECC
6) 4x8G non ECC
7) 3x8G non ECC
8) 3x8G non ECC + 2G ECC

and none of them have max fan speed problem regardless if I use any fan control software or not. Some of those non ECC RAM are the really cheap PC RAM, I don't think they have any temperature sensor.

 

[gslrider]

Check your CPU before you do that, only the X56xx support 4x16G RAM. The W36xx CPU can only support up to 3x16+8=56G RAM.

Also, you can't mix UDIMM with RDIMM, I am quite sure the 16G is RDIMM, and if your 8G is UDIMM, you can't mix them together. Otherwise, no boot.

I am roughly in the same situation as yours. I am planing to upgrade my RAM now. I went for the 4x8G non ECC because it was cheap. I was not that familiar with memory spec / restriction 2 years ago. Lucky I didn't go for 4x16G at that moment (my CPU is the W3690). And now I am trying to get some cheap RAM from china. Cost about $155 for 3x16G new 1333MHz CL9 1.5V 2Rx4 PC3-10600R ECC RDIMM. I think this is a pretty good deal, upgrade from 32G to 48G, from non ECC back to ECC, and from non optimum to optimum (3 channel) configuration. Those RAM are server memory, not specifically made for Mac Pro, but should be fine.

Good to know. Thanks!

Btw, can you forward me a link to that Chinese vendor for the ram your getting? That's a very good deal. I'd like to check it out myself. Much appreciated.

 

[h9826790]

https://world.taobao.com/item/43781...&spm=a312a.7700824.w4002-8712884745.30.I5ebkL

Sure, here is the link. The price may go up and down a bit every few days, but should not be too extreme. I have no idea if the seller can speak English or not. But international shipping should not be a problem.

 

[gslrider]

https://world.taobao.com/item/43781...&spm=a312a.7700824.w4002-8712884745.30.I5ebkL

Sure, here is the link. The price may go up and down a bit every few days, but should not be too extreme. I have no idea if the seller can speak English or not. But international shipping should not be a problem.

Thanks! Looks like they upped the price. 4x16 is about $350 CDN. But still a pretty good deal for 64GB of ram. I'm going to need a translator for the site though. lol

 

[h9826790]

Thanks! Looks like they upped the price. 4x16 is about $350 CDN. But still a pretty good deal for 64GB of ram. I'm going to need a translator for the site though. lol

Yes, it goes up a bit. The cheapest one is out of stock, so no point to share that link. The link above is the one that I actually paid for now. May not be the cheapest, but the seller is easily contactable, and he had confirmed that the RAM spec is correct. So, I shared this one. I don't want to share the cheapest link and end up someone buy the wrong RAM because of me, especailly the page is in Chinese, and the seller may not know English.

Anyway, if you can wait. I should able to get the RAM in about a week, and tell you the result. However, I can only test the 3x16G configuration, but not 4x16G. Even thought 4x16 should work if 3x16 work, but I can't 100% confirm that they can work at 1333 in 4x16 config (For some strange reason, some RAM can only work in 1066 in 4 stick config, but able to run at 1333 in 3 stick config. I still don't know the reason yet, but seems is the RAM ranking related. This 2Rx4 should be the correct ranking, and able to let all RAM run at 1333)

 

[gslrider]

Anyway, if you can wait. I should able to get the RAM in about a week, and tell you the result. However, I can only test the 3x16G configuration, but not 4x16G. Even thought 4x16 should work if 3x16 work, but I can't 100% confirm that they can work at 1333 in 4x16 config (For some strange reason, some RAM can only work in 1066 in 4 stick config, but able to run at 1333 in 3 stick config. I still don't know the reason yet, but seems is the RAM ranking related. This 2Rx4 should be the correct ranking, and able to let all RAM run at 1333)

I'm in no rush, and would really be interested to see how they work for you. Will help in my decision to purchase or not. Post back when you can. Cheers.

In regards to the speed. Are you saying that if I put 4x1333, my system may only see 3 sticks, and run at 1333? Or will it see all 4, but one will be downgraded to 1066?

 

[h9826790]

I'm in no rush, and would really be interested to see how they work for you. Will help in my decision to purchase or not. Post back when you can. Cheers.

In regards to the speed. Are you saying that if I put 4x1333, my system may only see 3 sticks, and run at 1333? Or will it see all 4, but one will be downgraded to 1066?

Depends on your CPU, 4x16 may not even boot.

If able to boot, but some RAM spec is not entirely correct (e.g. the ranking), all 4 sticks may be down clocked to 1066 CL7. Not just one.

 

[h9826790]

The new RAM received. Work as expected. 3x16G 1333MHz ECC server memory, end up cost me $190 (including shipping), a bit more than my initial expectation, but still very good deal IMO. And this memory comes with the temperature sensor which works on the cMP as well. Initial quick test shows reasonable score in GeekBench.

Update 1: just went to Micron website to download the data sheet of this RAM. All parameter well fitted the cMP. Max temperature is 95C (double refresh rate when above 85C), and my RAM component temperature never go above 60C under stress (Ambient up to 34C).

 

[dbarbetto]

This is my first post, so let me say "hello" to everyone.

@h9826790 I followed your answers very carefully, and I am very interested in buying this RAM, so followed your link. But the site is only in Chinese and it is impossible to make an order in a language other than that. I wrote to their help desk, but after a week no response at all. In the end I gave up.
Hope you can suggest a site much easier to use for overseas customers, although less cheaper.
Thanks in advance

 

[h9826790]

This is my first post, so let me say "hello" to everyone.

@h9826790 I followed your answers very carefully, and I am very interested in buying this RAM, so followed your link. But the site is only in Chinese and it is impossible to make an order in a language other than that. I wrote to their help desk, but after a week no response at all. In the end I gave up.
Hope you can suggest a site much easier to use for overseas customers, although less cheaper.
Thanks in advance

The next one I can suggest is this one

http://www.datamemorysystems.com/dm61-765/

This is a very reliable source, and should be easy for overseas customer. However, that's about 50% more expensive then taobao.com

There are lots of seller on Taobao, however, even for us (Chinese), it's still a bit tricky to find a good seller and get the correct stuff. I can hardly recommend you any of those seller if I never really buy the RAM from them (or at least talk to them). The idea of using Taobao is like gambling, the products are much cheaper, but you may get the wrong stuff. Over a long period of time (after some wrong / fake product arrived), we will still pay less and get more.

The situation is improving (especially in the last 2 years), however, it still cost me about 4 days to get the right seller that actually responsive (may be he only respond to Chinese message), and able to confirm the spec of RAM (in good manner). The 1st one (and the cheapest one) end up simply reject my order after I ask him few more questions.

China is not a open country, even for us, once the product shipped to Hong Kong, we cannot ship it back to China. Therefore, very hard to get a replacement if anything goes wrong. The only way for us to do it is that we physically carry the wrong product and go back to China (any city except Hong Kong and Macau), then ship it by domestic mail. Very complicated. By considering their product is so cheap, we almost never ask for replacement but simply buy another one.

However, for this RAM, it's not that cheap. So, get a correct seller is very important. And I can only assure you that the shop I use is the good one. If they didn't reply your questions (may be language problem), I can't recommend you any other seller. Sorry about that.

 

[flowrider]

The next one I can suggest is this one

http://www.datamemorysystems.com/dm61-765/

I second this recommendation. I've been buying RAM from DMS since 1986, and have never gotten a bad stick. Excellent Quality.

Lou

 

[dbarbetto]

The next one I can suggest is this one
However, for this RAM, it's not that cheap. So, get a correct seller is very important. And I can only assure you that the shop I use is the good one. If they didn't reply your questions (may be language problem), I can't recommend you any other seller. Sorry about that.

Thanks for your tips.
I'm sure that the vendor you have indicated is more than safe. But the problem is that there are many steps to take before placing an order, and not on all pages written in Chinese you can use a translator.
I arrived to the point where should write the billing information, but here it was virtually impossible to continue.
Anyway thanks again for your valuable advice, and Lou thanks to you for reassurance on the vendor.

 

[MisterKeeks]

The new RAM received. Work as expected. 3x16G 1333MHz ECC server memory, end up cost me $190 (including shipping), a bit more than my initial expectation, but still very good deal IMO. And this memory comes with the temperature sensor which works on the cMP as well. Initial quick test shows reasonable score in GeekBench.

"Product of USA"....

 

[h9826790]

"Product of USA"....

Yeah, I notice that as well. But it's strange to say "product", but not "made in", I guess it's just some product will ship to USA. It's very common the China factory get some product that should only export, and put them on Taobao sell for cheap.

This kind of product usually has better QC. Much more reliable than the average products on Taobao.

 

[Theoprofil]

I have update two Mac Pro 4.1 to 5.1. The updated 5.1 have 12cores with 3,06GHz. My memories are UDIMM. When I push my cpus e.g. final cut pro, the temperature of the cpus rising until 75 Celsius. The both computers shuts down. Unfortunately the fans of both computers never rotates faster the temperature rising.
Because both machines have the same "problem" i hardly believe that is not a problem of me but it is a problem from everyone who updated his Mac Pro 4.1
I did a research at the web but I cannot find someone mention the similar problem.
I believe that the problem is in common with the firmware update and SMC.
I explain why:
When someone update the Mac Pro 4.1 the Boot ROM Version changes to: MP51.007F.B03
BUT the SMC Version (system) stays at: 1.39f5 also the SMC Version (processor tray) stays at: 1.39f5
The SMC Version (system) also the SMC Version (processor tray) of a genuine Mac Pro 5.1 is 1.39f11
The SMC (system management controller) has a duty to control the rpm of the fans.
I tried million NVRAM and SMC resets and nothing works. The computer is overheating .
At the one Mac Pro I have cpus without IHS and at the other I have cpus with IHS. The only difference between both computers is that the one without IHS works some Celsius lower than the other and that the 1st cpu is almost at the same temperature with the second cpu at the one without IHS.
Both computers shut down because the sec cannot control the fans. The fans have the same rpm either the temperature is 38 Celsius at idle or 75 celsius at full 95% cpu load.
Because it happens at 2 Mac pros then it is not mine problem. It is everyones problem. It is impossible to be so unlucky and have the same problem at two different machines. Both machines have the same CPUS (Xenon 5675 3,06 GHz) both are 12 cores.
I kindly ask from everybody at this thread to push his cpu to the limits (85-100% load) (either 6 or 12 cores firmware upgraded 5.1 models) with handbreak and final cut pro and to monitor the rpm of the fans and the temperatures and give feedback. It is very important for all of us to define if there is a problem after the upgrading.
May be the solution is the memory dims. I have UDIMM. Do you believe that RDIMM would wake up SMC?
So please I ask kindly to mention this infos:

1. Number of cores
2. Model of cpus
3. Model of memories
4. Quantity of memories
5. Dual or triple channel memories
6. Temperatures at constant full load of cpus (85-100%) for 5 minutes
7. Max reached temperature
8. If the computer shut down
9. At what temperature shuts down (it depends on cpu model probably... if the sec worked fine)

 

[h9826790]

I have update two Mac Pro 4.1 to 5.1. The updated 5.1 have 12cores with 3,06GHz. My memories are UDIMM. When I push my cpus e.g. final cut pro, the temperature of the cpus rising until 75 Celsius. The both computers shuts down. Unfortunately the fans of both computers never rotates faster the temperature rising.
Because both machines have the same "problem" i hardly believe that is not a problem of me but it is a problem from everyone who updated his Mac Pro 4.1
I did a research at the web but I cannot find someone mention the similar problem.
I believe that the problem is in common with the firmware update and SMC.
I explain why:
When someone update the Mac Pro 4.1 the Boot ROM Version changes to: MP51.007F.B03
BUT the SMC Version (system) stays at: 1.39f5 also the SMC Version (processor tray) stays at: 1.39f5
The SMC Version (system) also the SMC Version (processor tray) of a genuine Mac Pro 5.1 is 1.39f11
The SMC (system management controller) has a duty to control the rpm of the fans.
I tried million NVRAM and SMC resets and nothing works. The computer is overheating .
At the one Mac Pro I have cpus without IHS and at the other I have cpus with IHS. The only difference between both computers is that the one without IHS works some Celsius lower than the other and that the 1st cpu is almost at the same temperature with the second cpu at the one without IHS.
Both computers shut down because the sec cannot control the fans. The fans have the same rpm either the temperature is 38 Celsius at idle or 75 celsius at full 95% cpu load.
Because it happens at 2 Mac pros then it is not mine problem. It is everyones problem. It is impossible to be so unlucky and have the same problem at two different machines. Both machines have the same CPUS (Xenon 5675 3,06 GHz) both are 12 cores.
I kindly ask from everybody at this thread to push his cpu to the limits (85-100% load) (either 6 or 12 cores firmware upgraded 5.1 models) with handbreak and final cut pro and to monitor the rpm of the fans and the temperatures and give feedback. It is very important for all of us to define if there is a problem after the upgrading.
May be the solution is the memory dims. I have UDIMM. Do you believe that RDIMM would wake up SMC?
So please I ask kindly to mention this infos:

1. Number of cores
2. Model of cpus
3. Model of memories
4. Quantity of memories
5. Dual or triple channel memories
6. Temperatures at constant full load of cpus (85-100%) for 5 minutes
7. Max reached temperature
8. If the computer shut down
9. At what temperature shuts down (it depends on cpu model probably... if the sec worked fine)

75C is nothing for Xeon. Of course the fan won't spin up. From my observation, the fans are calibrated to spin up when the CPU temperature reach ~80C and keep it at around 85C.

Anyway, my Mac is a flashed 5,1, upgraded with the W3690. And it something running at 100% load continuously for a week. No shut down issue.

If you believe that's temperature related. All you need to do is install MacsFanControl, manually set the fan to 50%, and run the stress test again. 50% should be more than enough to keep the CPU cool.

 

[0488568]

Can you use 128gb of non ecc with an x5680?

 

[h9826790]

Can you use 128gb of non ecc with an x5680?

Yes, on the dual processor 5,1, but not all OSX support that. From memory, since Mavericks support 128GB RAM, but not 100% sure.

 

[0488568]

4,1 flashed to 5,1?