From Apple Support: sorry, Its not Push..no fix comings

[mostman]

Folks - its pretty obvious why the the sync FROM the desktop can only happen in 15 minute intervals.

Apple has very little control (currently) over input into iCal, Address Book, etc. If all changes in these applications were 'pushed' - think about what could happen to their servers.

Imagine if I wrote a script to add a calendar entry to iCal every 5 seconds and let it run for a week. If my desktop was pushing how seriously bad would that be? Exactly.

Apple can control entry on the cloud - they can also control entry on the iPhone/Touch platforms (no easy way to do mass entry). Give them time - they will figure out how to control the desktop as well.

This is, of course, only my speculation. But this is what I do for a living - and if it was my system to design - I probably would have taken the same course of action given a 1 year development deadline.

-Mike

 

[CrazEtooN]

Don't worry SlapMonkey, you aren't alone. I see what you are saying and I agree with you 100%. Here is what I posted on it that most everyone has ignored...

There was no false advertising. Go watch the WWDC unveiling and then go watch the walk through video. Watch them closely.

I want you to come back and tell me a time point during either video where they say that data is pushed from a desktop/laptop computer to the Cloud. If you actually listen to it all, you won't be able to find such a time because it was never said.

The only true push that was spoken about was FROM the CLOUD down to the desktop, and between the iPhone and the Cloud. They never actually said there is push from a desktop UP to the Cloud.

Even when they talk about making changes on the desktop, they simply say that the changes will also be "sent" to the cloud and pushed to other devices. They didn't say it would be pushed to the cloud, they said it would be pushed FROM the cloud. See the difference?

Now, reference what was said in the video to your real usage...

-Make a change on the iPhone and it pushes within seconds to the Cloud.
-Make a change on the Cloud and it pushes within seconds to the iPhone and to your desktop/laptop. (This is still sporadic with desktop/laptops, but I attribute that to it being so new. I have changed calendar entries and had them instantly show up on my desktop, but I have also changed them and had them show up 10 minutes later. Because it has shown up instantly, my better sense tells me that once the kinks are worked out over the next few weeks, this will be the norm)
-Make a change to a contact or calendar on your desktop, and it will go up to the Cloud on a schedule, however, once it hits the cloud, it instantly pushes to your iPhone, or OTHER desktop/laptop.

Aside from a few minor interface bugs that are most likely going to be worked out, everything I have experienced has been the same as what was demoed and advertised.

I think some of you are really making mountains out of molehills.

 

[marco114]

Synch is more overhead

Some people think that "push" would be too much overhead but actually, sync looks for changes every 15 minutes is way more overhead. Just like Jobs said, sync is extra overhead for the iPhone and it's better to just "push" events to the phone. Just like when you get a chat in iChat, your iChat doesn't constantly "pull" from the server for new messages, it is in receive mode and when a chat comes it, it's instantly shown. If you don't change anything for several days, there is no communications with push technology.

My guess is that something didn't go as planned and they will fix it. There's got to be a cron job setup for 15 minutes somewhere, just change it to 1 minute for now if you can find it.

On another note: Has Apple never heard of a blog before? How about keeping us informed. I was going to buy an iPhone 3G and MMe today until I saw this thread. I'm gonna wait til everything is working perfect before I purchase. Tell us what's happening so we just don't sit here and get p/o'ed! Geesh, Web 2.0 Apple!

 

[themightyspitz]

Exactly what I've been saying:

"When you make a change on one device THE CLOUD updates the others. Push happens automatically, instantly and continuously."

Why is that so difficult for people to understand? Why are they reading it as "If I make a change on my Mac, it should push to the Cloud instantly." It doesn't say that AT ALL! The Cloud does the Pushing to the devices instantly.

Let me spell it out one more time since there is obviously a major comprehension problem on this forum:

"When you make a change on one device THE CLOUD, NOT THE MAC, updates the other devices VIA PUSH, FROM THE CLOUD!" "Push happens automatically, instantly and continuously FROM THE CLOUD!!! NOT THE MAC!"

Whoa, easy there, buddy. I see where you're coming from on this, but you're missing something else in there that caused a lot of confusion.

"When you make a change on one device the cloud updates the others. Push happens automatically, instantly and continuously."

"On one device" right there is ambiguous. I, like many people, were led to believe that "on one device" meant "On your Mac, PC, or iPhone" (this conjures the thought of a native app, like iCal or Address Book). So when it turned it really means "On the Me.com site on your device", then it made us feel hoodwinked. You're right, it wasn't explicitly stated native app, but it didn't explicitly state Me.com site only.

It's a small difference, but kinda important. It's like me saying "I can use Skype on my iPhone." Your first thought would be that I jailbroke my iPhone and installed a native app on it that is compatible with Skype. But for all you know, I could be using the web app "IM+ for Skype" strictly from the iPhone Safari browser. So when I said "I can use Skype on my iPhone", I wouldn't be lying, but the implication of a native app is still there.

 

[marco114]

wrong

Don't worry SlapMonkey, you aren't alone. I see what you are saying and I agree with you 100%. Here is what I posted on it that most everyone has ignored...

No, it clearly says on Apple's Website!

Push email. Push contacts. Push calendar.
MobileMe stores all your email, contacts, and calendars in the cloud and pushes them down to your iPhone, iPod touch, Mac, and PC. When you make a change on one device, the cloud updates the others. Push happens automatically, instantly, and continuously. You don’t have to wait for it or remember to do anything — such as docking your iPhone and syncing manually — to stay up to date."​

 

[Roller]

Folks - its pretty obvious why the the sync FROM the desktop can only happen in 15 minute intervals.

Apple has very little control (currently) over input into iCal, Address Book, etc. If all changes in these applications were 'pushed' - think about what could happen to their servers.

Imagine if I wrote a script to add a calendar entry to iCal every 5 seconds and let it run for a week. If my desktop was pushing how seriously bad would that be? Exactly.

Apple can control entry on the cloud - they can also control entry on the iPhone/Touch platforms (no easy way to do mass entry). Give them time - they will figure out how to control the desktop as well.

This is, of course, only my speculation. But this is what I do for a living - and if it was my system to design - I probably would have taken the same course of action given a 1 year development deadline.

-Mike

I suspect you're right in suggesting that Apple was afraid that push from the desktop apps would overload their servers. But since changes made using the Web apps are pushed, it implies that Apple thought that people would make fewer and less frequent changes using the Web than on their computers.

But Apple should be smart enough to figure out some algorithm that would ensure that changes on the desktop are sent to the cloud more often than every 15 minutes, and when the desktop apps quit or the computer is put to sleep.

 

[marco114]

Nope that's incorrect!

I suspect you're right in suggesting that Apple was afraid that push from the desktop apps would overload their servers. But since changes made using the Web apps are pushed, it implies that Apple thought that people would make fewer and less frequent changes using the Web than on their computers.

But Apple should be smart enough to figure out some algorithm that would ensure that changes on the desktop are sent to the cloud more often than every 15 minutes, and when the desktop apps quit or the computer is put to sleep.

Imagine 10,000,000 people "syncing" with Apple every 15 minutes. That's 150,000,000 hits every 15 minutes.

With "push".. events are only synced when they happen. It's likely that only 2-3% of those people even change an event ever 15 minutes. Maybe even once a day. That's MUCH less overhead.

 

[themightyspitz]

Not sure if anyone's attempted this, but...

Is there some sort of Automator script that could be written to sync more often than every 15 minutes? I haven't played with Automator enough to say for sure, but theoretically you could set up a workflow that does just that. Just curious.

 

[CrazEtooN]

No, it clearly says on Apple's Website!

Push email. Push contacts. Push calendar.
MobileMe stores all your email, contacts, and calendars in the cloud and pushes them down to your iPhone, iPod touch, Mac, and PC. When you make a change on one device, the cloud updates the others. Push happens automatically, instantly, and continuously. You don’t have to wait for it or remember to do anything — such as docking your iPhone and syncing manually — to stay up to date."​

Read the very passage you quoted. Read it slowly and carefully.

"MobileMe stores all your email, contacts, and calendars in the CLOUD and pushes them DOWN..."

MobileMe DOWN to iPhone = Push
MobileMe DOWN to desktop/laptop = Push
Desktop UP to MobileMe = Sync

The iPhone is a special class and MobileMe was in part designed to give it push services to help compete with RIM and the BlackBerry. That is the most common sense reason I can think of for why the iPhone info pushes up and the doesn't anyway... Aside from iCal and Address Book not containing the coding required for upwards push that is.

Just like I said a few posts ago... Go watch the unveiling at WWDC and the walkthrough videos again. When you are done, I want you to come back and give me a specific point in EITHER video where they show the data being transfered UP from a desktop to the Cloud as a push. I want you to quote me one time where the expressly state that it pushes UP from a desktop/laptop.

I've got $5 that says you can't....

 

[haunebu]

...between your mac and the redicolous cloud.

I believe you misspelled ridonkulous.

 

[marco114]

Ummm

I don't have to read anything but this..

When you make a change on one device, the cloud updates the others. Push happens automatically, instantly, and continuously. You don’t have to wait for it ...

That's a misleading statement... It implies I can do it anywhere and it will do it automatically and I don't have to wait.

Why are you defending Apple on this? Is it written to be misleading and in theri favor or not? It's more bandwidth for them to handle all the 15 minute checks. And I'm gonna hack mine to check every 30 seconds.. so they can suck it really. I'm not gonna defend Apple on this one. It's wrong.

 

[themightyspitz]

I don't have to read anything but this..



That's a misleading statement... It implies I can do it anywhere and it will do it automatically and I don't have to wait.

Why are you defending Apple on this? Is it written to be misleading and in theri favor or not? It's more bandwidth for them to handle all the 15 minute checks. And I'm gonna hack mine to check every 30 seconds.. so they can suck it really. I'm not gonna defend Apple on this one. It's wrong.

Not misleading, but ambiguous. Look to my earlier post on this page.

"On one device" was never specified. To say that meant "On web apps on one device" is completely true. But also to say that meant "On native apps on one device" is completely true. Absent of specification, we all jumped to the one we all would honestly prefer: native apps.

Takes two to tango.

 

[SlapMonkey]

Whoa, easy there, buddy. I see where you're coming from on this, but you're missing something else in there that caused a lot of confusion.

"When you make a change on one device the cloud updates the others. Push happens automatically, instantly and continuously."

"On one device" right there is ambiguous. I, like many people, were led to believe that "on one device" meant "On your Mac, PC, or iPhone" (this conjures the thought of a native app, like iCal or Address Book). So when it turned it really means "On the Me.com site on your device", then it made us feel hoodwinked. You're right, it wasn't explicitly stated native app, but it didn't explicitly state Me.com site only.

It's a small difference, but kinda important. It's like me saying "I can use Skype on my iPhone." Your first thought would be that I jailbroke my iPhone and installed a native app on it that is compatible with Skype. But for all you know, I could be using the web app "IM+ for Skype" strictly from the iPhone Safari browser. So when I said "I can use Skype on my iPhone", I wouldn't be lying, but the implication of a native app is still there.

hmmm, I was almost going to say fair enough and concede to you, but I still think there is a slight comprehension problem with how you and some others are reading things, so let me see if I can break it down (and honestly, I am really only trying to help here so please don't take anything personally, what you have stated has been the most reasonable response so far and I appreciate that!)

When Apple states "When you make a change on one device the cloud updates the others. Push happens automatically, instantly and continuously." yes that one device is your Mac, PC or iPhone, the Cloud however is the actual MobileMe server. So talking native app vs. me.com doesn't really matter for this argument, the whole point is, if you make a change on a device, whatever it is, it must sync to the MobileMe server, but once that happens, then the MobileMe server (a.k.a. The Cloud) will instantly and automatically push to all other devices.

You can also make changes to the MoblieMe server [Cloud] via it's frontend interface (me.com) and since you are directly affecting this Cloud server, it will still push everything instantly to all devices.

I don't think it's ambiguous at all; Me.com is the Cloud. The Cloud is a server. It is what pushes to all of your devices. Your devices are your devices, make a change on them (and once you sync to the Cloud) and MobileMe will push it to your other device. And I never read it differently or any way other than that.

Maybe Apple needed to really spell it out more, but it's sad that in today's day and age, people need to be handheld so much. When I was a kid, I used to play with big metal Tonka trucks without issue, now, they are made with "child-safe" rounded plastic with tons of warning labels and companies STILL get sued for peoples own ignorance. (much like the lady who spilled hot coffee on herself and sued McDonalds for making the coffee too hot! Give me a break!)

 

[SlapMonkey]

Read the very passage you quoted. Read it slowly and carefully.

"MobileMe stores all your email, contacts, and calendars in the CLOUD and pushes them DOWN..."

MobileMe DOWN to iPhone = Push
MobileMe DOWN to desktop/laptop = Push
Desktop UP to MobileMe = Sync

It really can't be much more clear than how you've stated it, and yet, I bet someone will come back and say "But apple says my Mac should do it instantly and automatically".

 

[richpjr]

It really can't be much more clear than how you've stated it, and yet, I bet someone will come back and say "But apple says my Mac should do it instantly and automatically".

People will come back and say it should because they do not agree that it was stated clearly. In fact, I think most people would not come to the same conclusion as you are. The ad says "when you make a change on one device". It doesn't say "when you make a change on the cloud using a device." You can play semantic games all you want but judging from the number of confused and/or pissed off people, it seems most of them took the inference of making a change on one device to mean the native apps.

 

[themightyspitz]

hmmm, I was almost going to say fair enough and concede to you, but I still think there is a slight comprehension problem with how you and some others are reading things, so let me see if I can break it down (and honestly, I am really only trying to help here so please don't take anything personally, what you have stated has been the most reasonable response so far and I appreciate that!)

When Apple states "When you make a change on one device the cloud updates the others. Push happens automatically, instantly and continuously." yes that one device is your Mac, PC or iPhone, the Cloud however is the actual MobileMe server. So talking native app vs. me.com doesn't really matter for this argument, the whole point is, if you make a change on a device, whatever it is, it must sync to the MobileMe server, but once that happens, then the MobileMe server (a.k.a. The Cloud) will instantly and automatically push to all other devices.

You can also make changes to the MoblieMe server [Cloud] via it's frontend interface (me.com) and since you are directly affecting this Cloud server, it will still push everything instantly to all devices.

I don't think it's ambiguous at all; Me.com is the Cloud. The Cloud is a server. It is what pushes to all of your devices. Your devices are your devices, make a change on them (and once you sync to the Cloud) and MobileMe will push it to your other device. And I never read it differently or any way other than that.

Maybe Apple needed to really spell it out more, but it's sad that in today's day and age, people need to be handheld so much. When I was a kid, I used to play with big metal Tonka trucks without issue, now, they are made with "child-safe" rounded plastic with tons of warning labels and companies STILL get sued for peoples own ignorance. (much like the lady who spilled hot coffee on herself and sued McDonalds for making the coffee too hot! Give me a break!)

Yeah, I completely hear you! We kinda get into a big comfort zone, so when we go out of it, we can't function. I was stuck in NY summer of 03 when that massive blackout it...everyone was like "OK, what do we do now" and spent hours trying their cell phones when they were useless without the towers.

Back to MobileMe, that makes complete sense to me, and I see what you're saying. And I'll admit it, like many people, I jumped to conclusions.

"When you make a change on one device the cloud updates the others. Push happens automatically, instantly and continuously." I already understood that the cloud was the server, and that the server was what was doing the updating, not my Mac. (That's the one thing that wasn't ambiguous about MobileMe or that video). The

But I think I've just pinpointed where all the confusion was from. Remember in the video guide, John showed a new email pop up on his Mac's native Mail app...which was getting mail from his Me.com email. Now while that shouldn't have caused any confusion since it's web-based(I use my Mail.app to get all emails from my Gmail accounts), it got our hopes it. "Look, it popped up on his native Mail app! Maybe it automatically comes up in Address Book and iCal, too!" So yes, we definitely did jump to conclusions. However, Apple's ambiguity on what they specifically meant for "devices" didn't help avoid confusion.

Here's what would have made everything crystal clear:

"When you make a change in the Me.com interface on one devicethe cloud updates the others. Push happens automatically, instantly and continuously."

 

[SlapMonkey]

People will come back and say it should because they do not agree that it was stated clearly. In fact, I think most people would not come to the same conclusion as you are. The ad says "when you make a change on one device". It doesn't say "when you make a change on the cloud using a device." You can play semantic games all you want but judging from the number of confused and/or pissed off people, it seems most of them took the inference of making a change on one device to mean the native apps.

Wow, you are STILL missing the point. It DOES mean making a change on your native apps! But it doesn't say your native apps will push to the Cloud, it says the Cloud will push to your other devices.

When you make a change on the native app on your device and sync it up to the Cloud which is the MobileMe server, it's the Cloud that pushes it to all of the other devices.

How many ***** ways does it have to be spelled out for you people!?! This is getting ridiculous!

CrazEtooN made a nice simple chart to explain this, let me try again the other way:

Your Mac's Native App = Sync UP to the MobileMe Server (a.k.a. The Cloud)
The Cloud = Push DOWN to all of your other devices and their native apps.

 

[richpjr]

Wow, you are STILL missing the point. It DOES mean making a change on your native apps! But it doesn't say your native apps will push to the Cloud, it says the Cloud will push to your other devices.

When you make a change on the native app on your device and sync it up to the Cloud which is the MobileMe server, it's the Cloud that pushes it to all of the other devices.

How many ***** ways does it have to be spelled out for you people!?! This is getting ridiculous!

CrazEtooN made a nice simple chart to explain this, let me try again the other way:

Your Mac's Native App = Sync UP to the MobileMe Server (a.k.a. The Cloud)
The Cloud = Push DOWN to all of your other devices and their native apps.

I'm not missing your point, I don't agree with it.

How many ***** times do people have to complain before you see that to an awful lot of people, it's not clear? It should be obvious from the number of people complaining. And furthermore, since syncing contacts and calendars isn't working on my Mac and laptop anyway, it's a moot point for me.

 

[Hands0n]

Except the implication from the keynote and marketing was that if you add a calendar event on your mac, it will be instantly pushed to all your devices. The technicality was that this is true only if you add it using the web app at me.com...but then in that case why also advertise the "works with desktop apps you already use" angle? Blatantly there has been a deception here.

Err, you cannot have a "blatant" "implication", it is either one or the other.

That people have "implied" from the keynote that push is available on the Mac is their problem not Apple's. Considering that the presentation was about MobileMe and the fact that MobileMe does "push" there is no blatant deception.

Someone earlier mentioned a Class Action against Apple. It would fail at the first hurdle.

Other, more reasoned, opinion on this thread has covered off quite succinctly what goes on between Mac, Mobile Me and iPhone. That also matches what has been officially published by Apple.

The thing is, push vs sync aside, the ability to replicate Calender, Contacts and Mail across the three platforms is now there, facilitated by MobileMe. Push, within Mobile Me, does in fact work. The Mac's sync, as it did with dotmac, also works as specified. It is all working precisely as designed and intended.

No Class Action here, move along please.

 

[email68]

Snow Leopard

Isn't one of the major announcements of Snow Leopard that it will have exchanged built-in?

That is what is needed for the push from Mac.

 

[Chumkiu]

The fact that we have to dig so deeply into what Apple "really" said or didn't say in their ads and keynote speech means that there was not a clear enough explanation of how it really works.

They didn't mention the word "Sync" or words "15 minute intervals" anywhere and led 8 out of 10 people believing that it was going to be push in all directions.

I have a friend who works as an Apple genius and he told me yesterday that Apple have to do something about this as the level of confusion as to why everything is not push is staggering. He told me that nearly everybody he informed about the 15 minute interval and push in one direction only, said that it was not what Apple had advertised.
Even though he is an Apple genius, he does actually know about Apple products and their workings, he went on to say that he believes Apple will have to comeback with a statement in order to apologize to people who were mislead. Like somebody said here already, there is no way you could sue Apple as they chose their words very carefully, but what you can do is Piss off every single person that comes into an Apple store or forum thinking that Mobileme can do one thing, and then find out it does another... and according to my sources, that mostly everybody.

I guess they shouldn't have tried to be so smart with their advertising campaign by splitting hairs with word play. Although I know this is marketing but it seems to have backfired on them now.

 

[bj3949]

Imagine 10,000,000 people "syncing" with Apple every 15 minutes. That's 150,000,000 hits every 15 minutes.

With "push".. events are only synced when they happen. It's likely that only 2-3% of those people even change an event ever 15 minutes. Maybe even once a day. That's MUCH less overhead.

Look!! Apple knows they're guilty!!! They changed their website advertising since you posted that picture. They can get sued for this. What motherf------

 

[tarasis]

Using the AEBSn with gigabit, the light is green and status is ON.

Thanks for replying.

I am suspecting that is why for some push to desktop is working. I can't yet verify for myself my Router / Modem won't act as just a Modem.

 

[bj3949]

Apple Better Do Something Fast Because They're Screwed!!

I have proof!!! They changed their website just now!!!
Look at my snapshots before and after.
They know they screwed up and they better do something about it FAST!!!!

I typed OLD and NEW on the snapshots so you guys could tell.

 

[Chumkiu]

The have changed the ad as they realize what confusion they stirred up.
This says it all really, why change the text in the advert if you are so wrong and strong Apple???

How lame.