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Galaxy S7
- Thread starter nviz22
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I'm on board with all this. I wonder what it takes to dig deep like what you're describing to overhaul the legacy files. Is it that simple as "going under the rug" and cleaning it out? And if it is, why hasn't Samsung done it? Are there any online articles about this I can learn more about? Not that I'm not taking your word for it. It's just interesting and I want to find out more about what's going on and exactly why Samsung isn't doing this specific move.
Maybe they are with the rumored Google's help?
Either way, my point remains, Samsung has year to year done near exactly what everyone has been asking them to do both on the hardware front and software front. And as far as I can tell regarding the software, it's working. I disagree they're just throwing hardware at it, but even if that's all they're doing, bring it on. Larger battery, 4GB of RAM, better SoC, etc. is all going to at the end of the day make the user experience better. So what's wrong with this exactly?
If they can do that AND couple that with continued focus on software, which is something they've been saying they'll focus on in 2016, it's as if they're solving the issue on both ends of the platform.
Isn't it inten that intentional? If their advances in hardware/software is enough to make the S6 and Note 5 run the way they do, I still don't believe they necessarily need to turn the entire software ship around and "build from the ground up" as you say. How many people exactly are that dramatically affected by the way TW runs apps or memory management? And why does it only afflict few S6/Note 5 users and not everyone across the board? Who is switching between 8-9 plus apps at a given time (that was about the number where the RAM started closing apps, right? 8 or 9 or more)? It just feels to me this whole RAM management thing is overblown and/or afflicting only a subset of extreme power users.
Again, I would never argue for anything getting better, and if indeed when/if Samsung builds the software back from the ground up and it leads to an excuse-less experience of TW, then I'm all for it.
I'm simply saying, until then, they've been doing the right things. And if the rumors pan out that they're doubling down on software improvements even more this year, then the potential is there.
Touchwiz runs amazingly well for me on a day to day driver. It hiccups here and there on rare occasions, but all OS-es do. This is not exclusive to TW (I know two people with Nexus 5X's -- heck, I bought it for them. And even online, there have been stories of lag. Ditto iPhone users and my own iPhone experience. I use to have the iPh6). But is it lagging and having issues that require Samsung to completely turn their ship around? I don't know. I don't think so. Is the RAM issue so bad that they can't solve it any other way than to obliterate their current OS structure and rebuild from the ground up (again, what does that entail? What resources? What are the costs?). I don't know. I don't think so again. Why isn't it as simple as changing the software's RAM management? Is building from the ground up the only way to solve the RAM issue?
TL;DR:
I'm all for it. I upvoted your post and agree it'd be great if that happens one day. But I'm also okay if it doesn't happen given what they're already doing and promising with their hardware/software. It's been going in nothing but the right direction, even if it's not all the way there yet.
[doublepost=1454175574][/doublepost]Did the RAM management not get any better at all (I'm saying literally unchanged from TW of S6) in the S6 Edge Plus and the Note 5? I didn't follow Edge Plus or Note 5 rumors/stories very closely cause I decided those devices weren't for me, but I thought there were stories of better RAM management?
Is the RAM management thing fixed or improved in any early preview Marshmallow builds of TW?
Everything I'm reading about it says it's a mystery why Samsung manages RAM this way but it sounds intentional. Does this really have to do with legacy files, and is the only fix to rebuild from scratch their software? Shouldn't it be as simple as changing the way RAM is managed in the software? It really needs an overhaul to achieve this?
It really is weird, and I'd love to see Samsung fix this. But in my day to day use of switching between a few apps, I don't feel the affects so dramatically. It's literally a split second before apps are ready to go when switching on my S6.
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Interesting Samsung chose MicroUSB over USB-Type C.
http://www.androidcentral.com/lets-...53bb&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter
http://www.androidcentral.com/lets-...53bb&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter
It isn't fixed in the Edge + or Note 5 but is at least alleviated with the help of the extra 1gb. But if you still did a side by side comparison with any other 3gb flagship, the Samsung's are still not able to keep as many apps open in the background by quite a good margin despite that 1gb disparity.
The Marshmallow beta for S6 has improved the very excessive ram closures on the S6 - however being able to open 6-7 apps before reloading compared to 3-5 is only a marginal improvement compared to the likes of the LG G4 which can open 12 or so and all have 3gb ram and the G4 hasn't even got marshmallow improvements yet.
I honestly don't think it would take too much work to clean out those old stuff from TW, after all its mostly that legacy / redundancy that Custom Rom makers target to get improvements. When a rom maker can remove a 100 files/services or more, and still have a device that functions in the same manner (doesn't lose any features) then it does display a somewhat lapsidasical approach from Samsung.
Hopefully the improvements Google are helping with 'if true' are to that detritus. Bringing down TW's demands on system ram would only have a beneficial affect to ALL users.
The launcher itself I think is very good myself too (albeit please give us the ability to move that damn apps icon to the middle of the dock), so I would hope this is finally something they will do, but we shall see.
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i would have liked USB C myself....
[doublepost=1454200715][/doublepost]
Great points MRU. I don't know why Samsung struggles so much to streamline TW in a way that it uses less resources.
They have made progress recently but still need to reduce the footprint TW uses.
Hopefully....fingers crossed......the rumors were true and Google helped them with their software problems.
Considering the new head of mobile is a software guy, I think the rumors of a new focus on software isn't a surprise. This is the guy behind Tizen. Look how fluid Tizen is on the Z3 and Z1 with such inferior hardware. Look how fluid Tizen is on wearables, cameras, and TVs. But I think we'll really feel the impact come the GS8 for Android. In the meantime, the biggest winner of this executive shuffle will be Tizen. I'm guessing he puts more resources into getting Tizen to 3.0 with a bigger app store, and then out to more countries for primetime. Tizen is one of the most efficient OS out there. I'm still baffled how the Note and GS line get better battery life than the Nexus with a bigger battery running stock Android. Maybe it's Google that needs Samsung's help with software optimisation.
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With regards to optimization on nexus devices, since Google provides full images and driver binaries their driver support isn't as good as say Samsung with their closed (closed source with special sauce) driver blobs. I wager it has very little to do with the actual android software and moreso with the hardware drivers and what Google is allowed to release from their hardware vendors . That's why you always see these optimized nexus roms that try to add superior drivers pulled from other closed phones with similar hardware.
Imo tizen is a waste of time. Just clean up touch wiz (behind the scenes as MRU so eloquently put in that previous epic post, I couldn't care less about aesthetics) and get better at updates. Don't leave previous gen phones on old touch wiz while upgrading the android version either. Do it right
In other words if Google released closed source phones like Samsung the performance disparity would surely be lower or perhaps even nonexistent. The only real comparison we have is the gs4 ge vs the gs4 because both phones are closed source and the gs 4 ge wiped the floor vs touchwiz but that is old news.
This is also why the fall of Motorola is so sad, now we have basically no stock Android phones with full special sauce driver support. Sony is it now I believe and we all know they have best battery life
Imo tizen is a waste of time. Just clean up touch wiz (behind the scenes as MRU so eloquently put in that previous epic post, I couldn't care less about aesthetics) and get better at updates. Don't leave previous gen phones on old touch wiz while upgrading the android version either. Do it right
In other words if Google released closed source phones like Samsung the performance disparity would surely be lower or perhaps even nonexistent. The only real comparison we have is the gs4 ge vs the gs4 because both phones are closed source and the gs 4 ge wiped the floor vs touchwiz but that is old news.
This is also why the fall of Motorola is so sad, now we have basically no stock Android phones with full special sauce driver support. Sony is it now I believe and we all know they have best battery life
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With regards to optimization on nexus devices, since Google provides full images and driver binaries their driver support isn't as good as say Samsung with their closed (closed source with special sauce) driver blobs. I wager it has very little to do with the actual android software and moreso with the hardware drivers and what Google is allowed to release from their hardware vendors . That's why you always see these optimized nexus roms that try to add superior drivers pulled from other closed phones with similar hardware.
Imo tizen is a waste of time. Just clean up touch wiz (behind the scenes as MRU so eloquently put in that previous epic post, I couldn't care less about aesthetics) and get better at updates. Don't leave previous gen phones on old touch wiz while upgrading the android version either. Do it right
In other words if Google released closed source phones like Samsung the performance disparity would surely be lower or perhaps even nonexistent. The only real comparison we have is the gs4 ge vs the gs4 because both phones are closed source and the gs 4 ge wiped the floor vs touchwiz but that is old news.
This is also why the fall of Motorola is so sad, now we have basically no stock Android phones with full special sauce driver support. Sony is it now I believe and we all know they have best battery life
Say what? So the Nexus phones are half assed attempts from Google? Are you saying their not capable to give the best Android experience possible? And that it requires a bunch of amateur devs on XDA to optimize a nexus? Sorry, I don't think Google would release a phone to be considered "Their Phone" on "Their OS," and have it not optimized with their best efforts.
It is their best efforts. hardware partners give Google different drivers because Google releases full images plus driver binaries. Nobody else releases full images and driver binaries. And Google doesn't write hardware drivers either I believe.
The principle is similar to how Sony phones wipe their proprietary stuff from the phone when you unlock the bootloader, so camera quality decreases, bravia stuff gone. They are trying to keep it from prying eyes
It is a side effect of freedom and giving the complete ability to write your own software for said device. That's why nexus is probably the only phone with truly stable custom roms. (Samsung has stable bloat trimming roms, but will never see a perfect stock Android custom rom or anything other than something with a touchwiz base)
See i kinda think you are letting Google and their OEm partners that make the Nexus phones off a little easy.With regards to optimization on nexus devices, since Google provides full images and driver binaries their driver support isn't as good as say Samsung with their closed (closed source with special sauce) driver blobs. I wager it has very little to do with the actual android software and moreso with the hardware drivers and what Google is allowed to release from their hardware vendors . That's why you always see these optimized nexus roms that try to add superior drivers pulled from other closed phones with similar hardware.
Imo tizen is a waste of time. Just clean up touch wiz (behind the scenes as MRU so eloquently put in that previous epic post, I couldn't care less about aesthetics) and get better at updates. Don't leave previous gen phones on old touch wiz while upgrading the android version either. Do it right
In other words if Google released closed source phones like Samsung the performance disparity would surely be lower or perhaps even nonexistent. The only real comparison we have is the gs4 ge vs the gs4 because both phones are closed source and the gs 4 ge wiped the floor vs touchwiz but that is old news.
This is also why the fall of Motorola is so sad, now we have basically no stock Android phones with full special sauce driver support. Sony is it now I believe and we all know they have best battery life
I mean it is their OS on a phone that they partnered with an OEM like Huawei to make. I mean i am sure they were in on the testing and optimisations and driver development. I mean it has their name on it.
I have said this many times. My N6P with a larger battery got less battery life than my N5 with a smaller battery.
I don't think Samsung gets all the credit they should. They do optimise their phones. But their issue is TW. It is resource hungry and kills background programs because of that. And I'm not taking anything sway from the 6P it is a great phone.
I would blame the soc / gpu provider more than the oem assembling the parts, but I do want to throw shade at Google and the oem too!. I know there were threads for installing different qualcomm drivers for the sd800 nexus 5. I want to say Motorola had different qualcomm drivers that people put on the nexus 4. I'm not saying these mods were perfect, just that nexus seems to get treated differently by qualcomm at least, which is the most impotant hardware partner as far as device performance.
The n5 vs 6p is exynos vs qualcomm so we really can't have a conversation about drivers with those two phones. In the past though nexus has suffered from battery issues versus phones with the same soc, which I think illustrates this driver problem. I do agree that Samsung has techniques that save on battery and they are really essentially great at everything except a few things. System ram usage and updating old phones with new touchwiz are my big two, along with needing a carrier free us model. My windows 10 pcs run more lean than touchwiz on the s6 which blows my mind a bit.
Ultimately, this was a good bit of a reason why I didn't buy nexus and bought a 6S. Because nexus has issues like this which I agree stink. I blame it on the fact that the phone is so open. You just can't have all the nice things while being so open like nexus
That and jailbreaking has less repercussions to deal with versus rooting on Android, which is friggin crazy. For example android pay does not work while rooted, even with systemless root now, and Apple pay works with jailbreak no problem, and is arguably still safe.
I would buy Samsung over nexus right now fwiw, well the n5 and s7 at least
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I really do not know why they can't release the newer version of TW as a download or simply a OTA. It would help with their public image.I would blame the soc / gpu provider more than the oem assembling the parts, but I do want to throw shade at Google and the oem too!. I know there were threads for installing different qualcomm drivers for the sd800 nexus 5. I want to say Motorola had different qualcomm drivers that people put on the nexus 4. I'm not saying these mods were perfect, just that nexus seems to get treated differently by qualcomm at least, which is the most impotant hardware partner as far as device performance.
The n5 vs 6p is exynos vs qualcomm so we really can't have a conversation about drivers with those two phones. In the past though nexus has suffered from battery issues versus phones with the same soc, which I think illustrates this driver problem. I do agree that Samsung has techniques that save on battery and they are really essentially great at everything except a few things. System ram usage and updating old phones with new touchwiz are my big two, along with needing a carrier free us model. My windows 10 pcs run more lean than touchwiz on the s6 which blows my mind a bit.
Ultimately, this was a good bit of a reason why I didn't buy nexus and bought a 6S. Because nexus has issues like this which I agree stink. I blame it on the fact that the phone is so open. You just can't have all the nice things while being so open like nexus
That and jailbreaking has less repercussions to deal with versus rooting on Android, which is friggin crazy. For example android pay does not work while rooted, even with systemless root now, and Apple pay works with jailbreak no problem, and is arguably still safe.
I would buy Samsung over nexus right now fwiw, well the n5 and s7 at least
I used to say I would love to have stock Android on my N4...but after having a few stock phones...i changed my opinion. I like the options TW brings to my user experience. I like the features over stock all day. I like TW on my N5.
But I love the options stock on a Nexus phones brings like roms. Devs can add features stock doesn't have. But you just have to jump through a few hoops to get them.
EDIT: I agree with you on Tizen being a waste of time. I think they only developed that as a bargaining position with Google.
Promo video is VR focused so does that hint at Samsung upping the resolution to 4K?
As for USB type C, I have no need for it since I use WIFI for moving data and prefer wireless charging. Only rare time I use cable is for ODIN and prefer to use my existing micro USB collection rather than having to buy new.
As for USB type C, I have no need for it since I use WIFI for moving data and prefer wireless charging. Only rare time I use cable is for ODIN and prefer to use my existing micro USB collection rather than having to buy new.
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Confirmed! The Galaxy S7 will be cube-shaped
[doublepost=1454314053][/doublepost]
Doubt it. All the rumours are leading to the same QHD. I think the reason they have VR on the promo is because they'll likely be streaming the event in VR.
[doublepost=1454314053][/doublepost]
Doubt it. All the rumours are leading to the same QHD. I think the reason they have VR on the promo is because they'll likely be streaming the event in VR.
Looks like possible backside of the S7. Looks pretty much the same as the current versions.
http://www.androidcentral.com/leaked-renders-samsungs-galaxy-s7-s7-edge-show-back-side-phone
http://www.androidcentral.com/leaked-renders-samsungs-galaxy-s7-s7-edge-show-back-side-phone
Off topic; talking about how a lot of geeks want to see the S7 or Note 6 adopt more of a stock vanilla Android OS. Might point is, will never happen. The Nexus line is for the ultra geek crowd only, which is a very tiny subset of the overall world smartphone market.
I bet the average Joe Blow, doesn't even know WTF "stock vanilla Android" even means. I bet most people think their phones are running Galaxy OS made by Samsung, that has a couple Google apps on it, a lot of people aren't even that familiar with the Android name. The Nexus phone line is super niche, ultra rare compared to the iPhone and Galaxy line.
Tocuhwiz is the most popular Android UI out there, way more so than vanilla. How many S6's and Note 5's, and Edge's were sold in 2015, compared to the Nexus 6P, 5X, and Moto Nexus 6 ? I think the Nexus phones combined maybe sold 3 to 5 million all together, at that absolute best case, whereas all the Galaxy phones combined sold approx. 75 million, maybe 100 million for 2015.
I bet the average Joe Blow, doesn't even know WTF "stock vanilla Android" even means. I bet most people think their phones are running Galaxy OS made by Samsung, that has a couple Google apps on it, a lot of people aren't even that familiar with the Android name. The Nexus phone line is super niche, ultra rare compared to the iPhone and Galaxy line.
Tocuhwiz is the most popular Android UI out there, way more so than vanilla. How many S6's and Note 5's, and Edge's were sold in 2015, compared to the Nexus 6P, 5X, and Moto Nexus 6 ? I think the Nexus phones combined maybe sold 3 to 5 million all together, at that absolute best case, whereas all the Galaxy phones combined sold approx. 75 million, maybe 100 million for 2015.
Great point TB. I think most consumer think whatever Android smartphone they are used to buying is stock Android.
If they only buy LG phones then they might think the LG skin on their phone is stock Android.
same could be said for HTC or Samsung. If one brand is all they know then that is all they know of Android.
I'm a power user but prefer Touchwiz since it has things like multi-window multitasking and smart features like Smart Stay, one-time unknown sources toggle, etc. over stock Android which is more stripped down for the purist and less technical crowd.
Looks like possible backside of the S7. Looks pretty much the same as the current versions.
http://www.androidcentral.com/leaked-renders-samsungs-galaxy-s7-s7-edge-show-back-side-phone
Looks like there's going to be a curved back on the edge version. Wut...?
I would stop you at less technical there.. Stock android is a blank canvas that you create your own experience with. I would argue it is directed at both crowds, those that want simplicity and those that want to create their own experience, versus the debloating approach most technical people take when buying a samsung phone (especially people in the USA that have to deal with carrier bloat)
only tmobile samsung phones have unlockable bootloaders in the usa too. nexus has them across the board, another sign of catering to the technical crowd
I agree. I don't want to see TW go away anytime soon. It's more feature-rich than both iOS (easily) and stock Android.
Samsung just needs to calm down with the aggressive RAM management and continue optimizing TW even more. I wish they'd at least explain why they are so aggressive with the RAM. The best explanation I've read from other forums is that they do it to help with processes that are happening in front of you (aka the app that you're in at the moment) and to help with battery.
: shrug :
I'd even go as far as saying Samsung should add more features. I'd love for a tilt-to-scroll feature for when I'm using the device laying down (and it's hard to scroll with one hand). I remember they had a "eye-scroll" feature where the front camera would scroll according to where you eye was looking or something like that. And people used it to just tilt the phone to automatically scroll.
If they can get that back while optimizing TW, why not? Plus you could turn it off too.
Of course, if it means TW becomes packed and overburdening again, then no. Maybe Samsung will find a way.
Samsung just needs to calm down with the aggressive RAM management and continue optimizing TW even more. I wish they'd at least explain why they are so aggressive with the RAM. The best explanation I've read from other forums is that they do it to help with processes that are happening in front of you (aka the app that you're in at the moment) and to help with battery.
: shrug :
I'd even go as far as saying Samsung should add more features. I'd love for a tilt-to-scroll feature for when I'm using the device laying down (and it's hard to scroll with one hand). I remember they had a "eye-scroll" feature where the front camera would scroll according to where you eye was looking or something like that. And people used it to just tilt the phone to automatically scroll.
If they can get that back while optimizing TW, why not? Plus you could turn it off too.
Of course, if it means TW becomes packed and overburdening again, then no. Maybe Samsung will find a way.
They previously had tilt to scroll, to be honest it's a feature not missed as in practice it wasn't greatly executed.
I just want to see TW optimised underneath to maximise the unarguably great hardware Samsung pack into their devices. But as the launcher goes, I like it myself. Especially now we can add a material design theme I never felt a need to use Nova or GN launcher on the edge, edge+ or Note 5.