Game of Thrones (HBO)

[QCassidy352]

So who's going to rule Winterfell, Jon or Sansa? I would love to see Jon legitimised, but Tommen would need convincing. I guess Sansa could make peace with Tommen, I mean he's not Joffrey...

Amazing episode, maybe the best ever.

I have a feeling Jon doesn't really want to sit as lord of winterfell. I think he's done holding titles of command. Bran would be the heir at this point, assuming he ever makes it back, but he's probably even less likely to want the job than Jon, now that he's the one eyed raven. So my bet is on Sansa, both because the others don't want the job, and because it would fit her character arc.

The question of what will happen with the Lannisters is an interesting one. The Boltons were in Winterfell by royal decree, and House Stark is still in revolt against the crown; it's just that for a while there, nobody realized there was any House Stark left.

So it's conceivable that Tommen could send the Lannister army north again. If it were Cersei's decision, she probably would, both because she blames Sansa for Joffrey's death and because littlefinger has now betrayed the Lannisters. But Tommen, crazy as he is, isn't his brother, or his grandfather, or his mother, and i doubt he has the stomach for re-launching the war. And, it's not the way the plot is going.

Plus, you'd have to figure that the other northern houses would again back the Starks, now that the Boltons are dead and the Vale has sided with the Starks. So would the Lannisters (or the producers) really want to reprise the season 3 conflict but without Rob/Joffrey/Tywin? I think they'll go in other directions-it's time for white walkers in the north and Denarys in the south.

 

[stridemat]

Epic! Battle scene right up there with Saving Private Ryan.

The behind the scenes episode is also very worth the 10 mins of your time.

 

[Mac'nCheese]

True. However he could've zigzagged a little bit at least...

That's so funny you mention that. As soon as he started running I was yelling at the TV, "zig zag, you moron!"

I have one question. I just binged watched the entire 6 seasons in the last 2 and half weeks so I'm a little mixed up on some things. In this past episode, cersei was talking to her adviser and he said something about I checked on that rumor and its more than a rumor. Did I forget what he was talking about or is this something we aren't supposed to know about yet. I can't remember an episode when she asked him to look into something for her but like I said, I'm a little mixed up from watching so many so quickly. Thank you

 

[Khalanad75]

I have one question. I just binged watched the entire 6 seasons in the last 2 and half weeks so I'm a little mixed up on some things. In this past episode, cersei was talking to her adviser and he said something about I checked on that rumor and its more than a rumor. Did I forget what he was talking about or is this something we aren't supposed to know about yet. I can't remember an episode when she asked him to look into something for her but like I said, I'm a little mixed up from watching so many so quickly. Thank you

It's not something we are supposed to know quite yet. The supposition is that she was asking about the "dragonfire" Tyrion used in the battle of the Blackwater. And then in this last episode Tyrion explains to Dany, that her father had stashed caches of it all over the city.

Most people feel that Cersei is going to use it to blow up the High Sparrow and his underlings.

 

[Mac'nCheese]

It's not something we are supposed to know quite yet. The supposition is that she was asking about the "dragonfire" Tyrion used in the battle of the Blackwater. And then in this last episode Tyrion explains to Dany, that her father had stashed caches of it all over the city.

Most people feel that Cersei is going to use it to blow up the High Sparrow and his underlings.

That would be great! TU.

 

[ActionableMango]

Sansa: We don't have enough soliders!

Jon Snow: We have to go with what we have! Because there's nobody else to turn to, right? There's definitely nothing else I need to know? Anything? Anything at all? Like, I dunno, just to pick a random house, maybe the Knights of the Vale, long time allies of the Starks might be coming?

Sansa: Noooooooooooooooope, I can't think of anything.....

 

[zmunkz]

I don't think Jon has any interest in sitting at Winterfell... For him this battle was to clear the way for the real fight to come.

When Jon ran ahead like an idiot and the cavalry was charging I really had a moment where I thought I'd guessed wrong and Jon was about to die.

I thought this was a great episode. People don't seem to get that the killings early on were not just for shock or for the sake of being unexpected, they were part of advancing an epic story. We are coming to the final scenes, so any decent story would converge on the few main protagonists and close off the plots. GRRM is a very good storyteller, I have no doubt he's done this in his arcs. If you think that is some kind of betrayal to "main steam" then I think you missed the point of the earlier twists. They were never just to be anti-mainstream.

 

[Huntn]

Mereen and Daenerys was the best. Got some chills from the display of DRAGON POWER six seasons in the making!!

At the same time I'm annoyed at the nature of the compressed story telling. Ideally these events would be shown in multiple episodes, although it could be said, they are doing as best they can with the time given them.

And I was really annoyed by Jon Snow being sucked into forgetting the plan and acting emotionally. I thought the staging of the battle was excellent, they would have been toast without the second instance when an external force makes a surprise entrance into the fray to save the good guys, victory not because of some serious genius battle strategy against the odds.

I'm wondering at this point what surprise the author/producers have for us. It appears Daenerys has amassed an unstoppable force. Is it going to be as simple as her rolling Westeros or will the rug be pulled out from under us? I have my fingers crossed that whatever happens it will be a worthy satisfying ending.

As was already mentioned SERPINTINE! It's not that hard to avoid an arrow shot from a far distance by zigging and zagging.

 

[iLog.Genius]

Sansa: We don't have enough soliders!

Jon Snow: We have to go with what we have! Because there's nobody else to turn to, right? There's definitely nothing else I need to know? Anything? Anything at all? Like, I dunno, just to pick a random house, maybe the Knights of the Vale, long time allies of the Starks might be coming?

Sansa: Noooooooooooooooope, I can't think of anything.....

If only it were that simple. What Sansa did makes sense when you look at it from her perspective and when put into context with her conversation with Jon. You're likely thinking, well if Sansa told Jon, Jon would have at least held back. Well no, because Sansa told Jon that Ramsay would likely do something to provoke him even though Jon assured Sansa that no such thing would happen. What happened? Jon did exactly what Sansa told him Ramsay would do.

"You think he's going to fall into your trap? He won't. He's the one who lays traps."​

You could rewrite their conversation but at the end, the element of surprise was needed. To me, the only way Sansa's actions wouldn't make sense is if the military strength of the Vale overwhelms Ramsay's army, they would win by numbers alone. Otherwise, it's equal military strength with the advantage going to Ramsay by having Winterfell.

 

[cdcastillo]

... It's nice to see some closure in a show where it seems like closure is always beyond reach.

The good guys finally won one tonight. That hasn't happened in a looooooong time... You know, typical plots... :/

For a moment there when Jon was being trampled I sincerely believed the producers were going to kill him right there and I was pissed as he'll because of it. What a sense of desperation that scene transmitted!

...I'm wondering at this point what surprise the author/producers have for us... Is it going to be as simple as her rolling Westeros or will the rug be pulled out from under us?

I'm guessing rug pulling one way or another

 

[zmunkz]

These behind the scenes things are cool... They've done them for the whole season.

http://io9.gizmodo.com/go-behind-the-scenes-of-last-nights-astonishing-game-of-1782299096

 

[Roller]

These behind the scenes things are cool... They've done them for the whole season.

http://io9.gizmodo.com/go-behind-the-scenes-of-last-nights-astonishing-game-of-1782299096

Thanks for the link. I also liked this interview with the director, Miguel Sapochnik. Regardless of what one thinks about the storytelling (I understand but don't necessarily agree with the complaints), the battle was a technical tour-de-force that rivals anything I've seen on television or even in the movies.
[doublepost=1466502509][/doublepost]

If only it were that simple. What Sansa did makes sense when you look at it from her perspective and when put into context with her conversation with Jon. You're likely thinking, well if Sansa told Jon, Jon would have at least held back. Well no, because Sansa told Jon that Ramsay would likely do something to provoke him even though Jon assured Sansa that no such thing would happen. What happened? Jon did exactly what Sansa told him Ramsay would do.

"You think he's going to fall into your trap? He won't. He's the one who lays traps."​

You could rewrite their conversation but at the end, the element of surprise was needed. To me, the only way Sansa's actions wouldn't make sense is if the military strength of the Vale overwhelms Ramsay's army, they would win by numbers alone. Otherwise, it's equal military strength with the advantage going to Ramsay by having Winterfell.

What do you think was Ramsay's strategy in baiting Jon with Rickon? Was it to put Jon into a much more vulnerable position where he could be killed before the battle began, demoralizing his army, or was it just another opportunity for sadism? Or maybe both?
[doublepost=1466502869][/doublepost]

Jon Snow: We have to go with what we have!

I suspect that I wasn't the only one who thought about Donald Rumsfeld's infamous quote about the invasion of Iraq in 2004: "You go to war with the army you have, not the army you might want or wish to have at a later time."

 

[Huntn]

You know what I want to see, maybe next season? Walder Frey get his just deserts.

If only it were that simple. What Sansa did makes sense when you look at it from her perspective and when put into context with her conversation with Jon. You're likely thinking, well if Sansa told Jon, Jon would have at least held back. Well no, because Sansa told Jon that Ramsay would likely do something to provoke him even though Jon assured Sansa that no such thing would happen. What happened? Jon did exactly what Sansa told him Ramsay would do.

"You think he's going to fall into your trap? He won't. He's the one who lays traps."​

You could rewrite their conversation but at the end, the element of surprise was needed. To me, the only way Sansa's actions wouldn't make sense is if the military strength of the Vale overwhelms Ramsay's army, they would win by numbers alone. Otherwise, it's equal military strength with the advantage going to Ramsay by having Winterfell.

Your points sound valid. In my thinking, in hindsight part of the key to taking Winterfell quickly was to get Ramsay to expose his forces away from the castle. Unfortunately it meant sacrificing many of Jon Snow's forces, not that Jon had a clue (regarding Sansa's recruitment effort), and the originally plan was not that assured of success, hoping that Ramsey forces would charge into the middle of them, to be enveloped. With time pressure, it can be argued that it was now or never with Winter coming, and the plan might have worked if... he had stuck to the plan, but maybe not.

Sansa said it herself, she was no tactician, but she was smart enough to realize they were badly outnumbered and she stated her concern about Ramsay as you quoted. The rest is conjecture. Would it have been better to tell Jon and wait for Little Finger and let Ramsay stay holed up in Winterfell if and when he realized he was now facing a superior force or better to draw Ramsay out? Did Sansa know the forces from the Vale were coming and would arrive in a timely fashion? This would be controversial, if she knew and failed to inform Jon. I could see him being pissed.

Interesting that Ramsay had no compunction about sacrificing his calvery after fighting had degraded to hand combat. Oh, and Ramsay's specific fate was the exact one I, and I think a multitude of fans had hoped for.
[doublepost=1466516267][/doublepost]

Thanks for the link. I also liked this interview with the director, Miguel Sapochnik. Regardless of what one thinks about the storytelling (I understand but don't necessarily agree with the complaints), the battle was a technical tour-de-force that rivals anything I've seen on television or even in the movies.
[doublepost=1466502509][/doublepost]

What do you think was Ramsay's strategy in baiting Jon with Rickon? Was it to put Jon into a much more vulnerable position where he could be killed before the battle began, demoralizing his army, or was it just another opportunity for sadism? Or maybe both?
[doublepost=1466502869][/doublepost]

I suspect that I wasn't the only one who thought about Donald Rumsfeld's infamous quote about the invasion of Iraq in 2004: "You go to war with the army you have, not the army you might want or wish to have at a later time."

All of the above, but primarily to hopefully (from his perspective) trigger a response that was tactically advantageous, which it did.
[doublepost=1466516499][/doublepost]

If there's one question I would ask, it would be why Wun Wun isn't/doesn't wield a large ass weapon. While the outlook/outcome would have been the same (from the perspective of Jon and his army), Wun Wun with a large ass club or axe would do some serious damage and at least make it a lot more interesting.

Or at least a big ass shield. Sorry to see him expire.

 

[iLog.Genius]

Your points sound valid. In my thinking, in hindsight part of the key to taking Winterfell quickly was to get Ramsay to expose his forces away from the castle. Unfortunately it meant sacrificing many of Jon Snow's forces, not that Jon had a clue (regarding Sansa's recruitment effort), and the originally plan was not that assured of success, hoping that Ramsey forces would charge into the middle of them, to be enveloped. With time pressure, it can be argued that it was now or never with Winter coming, and the plan might have worked if... he had stuck to the plan, but maybe not.

Sansa said it herself, she was no tactician, but she was smart enough to realize they were badly outnumbered and she stated her concern about Ramsay as you quoted. The rest is conjecture. Would it have been better to tell Jon and wait for Little Finger and let Ramsay stay holed up in Winterfell if and when he realized he was now facing a superior force or better to draw Ramsay out? Did Sansa know the forces from the Vale were coming and would arrive in a timely fashion? This would be controversial, if she knew and failed to inform Jon. I could see him being pissed.

That's the only thing I'm still unsure about. Is it a known fact that the Vale would have given Jon the numbers advantage? Also, we were not given any sort of hint that Sansa knew the Vale would have came and like you said, in a timely fashion. Again, we could continue nitpick each and every little thing but at the end, it made sense why and how everything played out.

 

[Huntn]

That's the only thing I'm still unsure about. Is it a known fact that the Vale would have given Jon the numbers advantage? Also, we were not given any sort of hint that Sansa knew the Vale would have came and like you said, in a timely fashion. Again, we could continue nitpick each and every little thing but at the end, it made sense why and how everything played out.

For the purposes of a satisfying narrative, it worked out for the best. However, not telling Jon IMO was bad and btw, I thought I saw something in the preview that sounds like a reconciliation.

 

[iLog.Genius]

What do you think was Ramsay's strategy in baiting Jon with Rickon? Was it to put Jon into a much more vulnerable position where he could be killed before the battle began, demoralizing his army, or was it just another opportunity for sadism? Or maybe both?

Both. Jon thought he gained a small advantage by getting Ramsay angry but as Sansa predicted, Ramsay countered and hit home hard and the rest is history. The only real advantage that Jon had from an audience standpoint was not rushing into the battlefield, waiting it out was the right thing. But of course Ramsay forced Jon's hand and Jon played directly into Ramsay's trap.

 

[giantfan1224]

The scene with Rickon running to Jon was horrible. Horrible because you knew he wasn't going to survive. Horrible because you knew Jon was going to react emotionally and do exactly what Ramsay wanted him to do. For me it might be the most intense scene in the 6 seasons. I'd put it up there with Ned's beheading but that was a different kind of intense where I still believed the protagonist had a decent shot to survive. That was until GRRM taught me over and over again that this was a very different kind of storytelling.

I have not read the books but I've heard about Lady Stoneheart. It was the scene when Jon looked like he very well might meet his demise in a crush of dead bodies that I started really hoping the show would bring her in soon so we could see a Stark kick some serious ass. I'm not sure how you could write her into the story at this point, and I've heard the actress is not available, but I would love to see it.

 

[Huntn]

So you think my grousing about GoT short seasons is bad now? Likely, Season 7=7, Season 8=8. I'll definitely read the books if they are ever published.
Game of Thrones’ Creators Mull Shorter Final Seasons (EXCLUSIVE)

The scene with Rickon running to Jon was horrible. Horrible because you knew he wasn't going to survive. Horrible because you knew Jon was going to react emotionally and do exactly what Ramsay wanted him to do. For me it might be the most intense scene in the 6 seasons. I'd put it up there with Ned's beheading but that was a different kind of intense where I still believed the protagonist had a decent shot to survive. That was until GRRM taught me over and over again that this was a very different kind of storytelling.

I have not read the books but I've heard about Lady Stoneheart. It was the scene when Jon looked like he very well might meet his demise in a crush of dead bodies that I started really hoping the show would bring her in soon so we could see a Stark kick some serious ass. I'm not sure how you could write her into the story at this point, and I've heard the actress is not available, but I would love to see it.

Re: Lady Stoneheart, there is nothing that says she could not play a part in the final chapters and in her physical state, anyone could probably play her.

 

[giantfan1224]

If there's one question I would ask, it would be why Wun Wun isn't/doesn't wield a large ass weapon. While the outlook/outcome would have been the same (from the perspective of Jon and his army), Wun Wun with a large ass club or axe would do some serious damage and at least make it a lot more interesting.

This, scaled to his size, would've destroyed that shield and spear tactic pretty easily:

[doublepost=1466518414][/doublepost]

Re: Lady Stoneheart, there is nothing that says she could not play a part in the final chapters and in her physical state, anyone could probably play her.

They could write her in but they'd have to be very careful as it might easily come across as jumping the shark, particularly for those that have not read the books and have no idea about Lady Stoneheart.

 

[Huntn]

This, scaled to his size, would've destroyed that shield and spear tactic pretty easily:

[doublepost=1466518414][/doublepost]
They could but they'd have to be very careful as it could easily come across as jumping the shark, particularly for those that have not read the books and have no idea about Lady Stoneheart.

That is strange he was not so armed.

My recall may be off, but she just made an appearance in the books (published so far). For those who have not read the books, don't research unless you don't mind spoilers. A quick flashback could bring the audience up to speed.

 

[Technarchy]

Phenomenal episode.

Incredible. Easily the best ever for me.

 

[Huntn]

These behind the scenes things are cool... They've done them for the whole season.

http://io9.gizmodo.com/go-behind-the-scenes-of-last-nights-astonishing-game-of-1782299096

Thanks for the link! Outstanding video showing how visual elements are added to the battle making it larger than life. Really well done.

 

[Khalanad75]

Here are my thoughts as to Dany and Westeros.

By the time she reaches the Seven Kingdoms, the Winter King will have pushed down beyond the wall and Jon will have taken the Northerners in a retreat down to Kings landing trying to protect as many civilians as possible, free folk included.

Dany will show up to lay siege to Kings landing only to find it already besieged by the army of undead and that's when you will see her end up saving the world form the wights. Upon seeing her destroy the Winter King, Jon will kneel down to offer fealty and force the whole North to do the same.

Bran will show up and with his truesight prove Jon's legitimacy as a Targaryan and a Stark and Dany wil marry him to reunite the old blood.

 

[Huntn]

Here are my thoughts as to Dany and Westeros.

By the time she reaches the Seven Kingdoms, the Winter King will have pushed down beyond the wall and Jon will have taken the Northerners in a retreat down to Kings landing trying to protect as many civilians as possible, free folk included.

Dany will show up to lay siege to Kings landing only to find it already besieged by the army of undead and that's when you will see her end up saving the world form the wights. Upon seeing her destroy the Winter King, Jon will kneel down to offer fealty and force the whole North to do the same.

Bran will show up and with his truesight prove Jon's legitimacy as a Targaryan and a Stark and Dany wil marry him to reunite the old blood.

Absolutely brilliant. Will it soon be revealed you are GRRM's nephew?

 

[Strider64]

Spoiler

I hate to admit this, but I'm going to miss Ramsay. While he was a despicable character I was always wondering what horrible thing he would do next. [/SPOILER