Game of Thrones (HBO)

[zmunkz]

Spoiler: S8e4

I wasn’t that impressed tonight. The dying dragon is about the only significant development. I’m surprised by the slow pace and the amount of setup, considering how little time is left for resolutions. I guess they used the first half of the episode as an opportunity to say goodbye to a bunch of characters whose arcs are complete.

So the Hound is after his bro, and Arya is after Cersi. Seems too deus-ex-arya if she gets the NK AND Cersi, so I wonder what she’ll end up doing there.

I wish the characters would use Bran more. He mutters thing like, “it’s your choice,” and Jon can’t stop to ask him to check on the consequences. Well we knew this was going to build into a divide between them, but looks like that divide will come from the outside (Varys) and the inside (he betrayed his queen’s order).

I’m still hanging on to theories around the Night Queen, so I read an awful lot into Tormund’s goodbye. Were all those remarks about seeing Jon again and him belonging in the north just friendly words, or foreshadowing? Odds are getting longer, but I’m holding out.

I’d thought Gray Work had to go after his little speech in ep2, but I guess they handled that the other way around.

I really had a moment at the very end as Dany was walking away where I expected Tyrion to get shot through. That would’ve been a twist!

Still seems like only one episode is needed to end the King’s Landing battle, so what’s the last 80 minutes? Gotta be something with the NK, in some way. Unless that’s when they settle Dany v. Jon. *shrug*

 

[Strider64]

Spoiler: S8e4

I wasn’t that impressed tonight. The dying dragon is about the only significant development. I’m surprised by the slow pace and the amount of setup, considering how little time is left for resolutions. I guess they used the first half of the episode as an opportunity to say goodbye to a bunch of characters whose arcs are complete.

So the Hound is after his bro, and Arya is after Cersi. Seems too deus-ex-arya if she gets the NK AND Cersi, so I wonder what she’ll end up doing there.

I wish the characters would use Bran more. He mutters thing like, “it’s your choice,” and Jon can’t stop to ask him to check on the consequences. Well we knew this was going to build into a divide between them, but looks like that divide will come from the outside (Varys) and the inside (he betrayed his queen’s order).

I’m still hanging on to theories around the Night Queen, so I read an awful lot into Tormund’s goodbye. Were all those remarks about seeing Jon again and him belonging in the north just friendly words, or foreshadowing? Odds are getting longer, but I’m holding out.

I’d thought Gray Work had to go after his little speech in ep2, but I guess they handled that the other way around.

I really had a moment at the very end as Dany was walking away where I expected Tyrion to get shot through. That would’ve been a twist!

Still seems like only one episode is needed to end the King’s Landing battle, so what’s the last 80 minutes? Gotta be something with the NK, in some way. Unless that’s when they settle Dany v. Jon. *shrug*

Spoiler: Hmm?

My take is that they're trying to paint Dany as having a dark side and that she's not really worthy of being queen. It's kind of true about leaders always promising to be different, but in reality they are basically all the same. I'm personally hoping for a surprise ending where someone else takes the throne, but only to denounce it and says that no one person should rule over the whole region. Will it come from the cast of leaders or will it come from someone that is kind of hiding in the background?

 

[yaxomoxay]

I hate Cersei.

 

[Khalanad75]

Why are there still theories involving the night king? He’s dead. He was created by magic and the children of the forest. Have we seen any CotF running around? Nope, so that arc is over. Leave it be.

 

[Krayzkat]

Spoiler: Spoiler

So, Gendry became Lord Baratheon which wasn’t too much of a surprise although the minute or two runnning up to it, it seemed maybe Daenerys might have a ‘mad king’ episode.
I was surprised when Gendry declared his love for Arya and asked her to be his Lady/wife. I’m glad Arya turned him down because I just have never seen their relationship as any way romantic.
He dragon getting shot down was a bit out of the blue. The ships that have the giant crossbows on them, only appear to have them at he front end, so potentially a dragon attack from behind would be able to destroy the fleet. But we have seen in the previous episode that the writers do t really care about non-stupid military tactics
This season we had another character pop her cherry. Must be Bran’s turn next?
Tormid and the Wildings are heading back up north beyond the wall. If this is the last we see of him then it wasn’t really that great a farewell scene. If the Night King can rejuvenate or is reborn in some way, far up north, in the future, it will be these Wildings that will become his new army in generations to come. If this is the case then really the Wall should be rebuilt to stop people going north, rather than stop those coming south. But I suspect that maybe the NK is dead and properly dead and unable to be recreated etc for ever more.
When Daenerys etc where outside Kings Landing and the gates were shut, I was half expecting a catapult barrage or something. That would have easily killed Daenerys and given Cersei a little victory. I was surprised she never killed Tyrion either. She had a great opportunity. It wasn’t like the meeting of Queens wasn’t going to end on a sour note was it?
Daenerys is going to be pissed when she finds out Jon told Sansa and Arya about his heritage. She will be even more pissed when she finds out Sansa told Tyrion who then told Varys. Now that Melisandre is dead, Daenerys only really has Jon Snow and Greyworm who are truly loyal to her.
When Bran told Jon it was his choice if he told Sansa and Arya, maybe Jon was subconsciously making his claim to the throne, by telling them. Maybe he subconsciously suspected Sansa would tell someone, and they would tell someone else etc? It’s his style of leadership, getting others to declare him Lord Commander of Nights Watch and King of the North, rather than boldly declare it he ‘humbly’ accepts it.
It does look like Daenerys is finding herself more and more isolated within the group. Will her ‘dark side’ continue to grow and grow until she becomes the tyrant she wanted to destroy?
Now that we know winter fell at Winterfell, will we see Daenerys Stormborn end at Stormsend, and Jon Snow flying the remaining dragon and landing at Kings Landing?

I was really surprised with Bronn’s behaviour tbh. I thought he might have become more than just a cut throat over the years. But I guess not.


Now that Jamie is heading south, I guess Brienne was just a one Knight stand. Tbh I can understand why she chose Jamie over Tormid - he offered her a hand of gold

 

[Strider64]

Spoiler

Not really a spoiler, but I was thinking last night. I know this is going to sound weird, but I think Jamie Lannister is going to win the throne on Game of Thrones. Think about it for a second, the character is hated by some and is also loved by some.

 

[Roller]

I enjoyed the episode, though it's getting harder to watch as characters die and the finale quickly approaches. Comments on yesterday:

Spoiler

1. The setup was a bit longer than I would have liked. It's as if the writers thought they had to tie up some storylines (Arya and Gendry, Brienne and Jaime) before moving on.
2. It's hard to believe that Bronn was bought off so easily. I expect we'll see more of him,
3. Is that really it for Tormund? I know the Night King/White Walkers arc is over, but I wonder if there are other surprises in store near or north of the wall.
4. The politics are getting more interesting as Dany is made out to be unworthy of the throne and tensions between her and the Starks rise, with Jon in the middle. It seems increasingly clear that she won't end up on the Iron Throne.
5. Isn't there a lot of wildfire beneath King's Landing? I can see Cersei adopting a scorched earth policy by torching the place if she doesn't get what she wants. That would fit with Dany's throne room vision in season 2.
6. It looks like Jaime and Arya have the same mission now — kill Cersei. I hope they're successful.
7. With The Hound on his way south, Clegane Bowl looks more likely than ever.
8. I agree with criticism that it was foolish for Dany and Drogon to approach Euron's ships from the front. But it also didn't make sense for Euron not to go after the survivors after he destroyed their ships.
9. I thought Tyrion was going to be killed, but it looks like he'll be around until the end.
10. Is Bran's story over? That would be a disappointment.

 

[zmunkz]

Why are there still theories involving the night king? He’s dead. He was created by magic and the children of the forest. Have we seen any CotF running around? Nope, so that arc is over. Leave it be.

Almost certainly true at this point, but you ask why? Because it’s a massive disappointment to see how the writers took such a mysterious and ominous character arc, built it so carefully over time with symbology and detail, and decided to just flop it against the ground. I’m holding out for something to make sense of that. Most likely, yes, just bad writing, and the lasting flavor of the show will suffer for it.

 

[AlliFlowers]

Enough with spoiler tags. If you haven't watched the most recent episode - skip this thread.

I really had a moment at the very end as Dany was walking away where I expected Tyrion to get shot through. That would’ve been a twist!

I was positive that was it for Tyrion. Surprised Cersei let him walk away.

When Daenerys etc where outside Kings Landing and the gates were shut, I was half expecting a catapult barrage or something. That would have easily killed Daenerys and given Cersei a little victory. I was surprised she never killed Tyrion either. She had a great opportunity. It wasn’t like the meeting of Queens wasn’t going to end on a sour note was it?

Surprised she let any of them walk away. Why didn't she use this perfect opportunity? Kill the opposition at the head. Or is John the only one she's really worried about at this point? And if so, why?

I think Jaime will be the one to finish her. Maybe in some extreme double murder where they manage to strike the killing blow simultaneously and they die in each others' arms.

 

[yaxomoxay]

Almost certainly true at this point, but you ask why? Because it’s a massive disappointment to see how the writers took such a mysterious and ominous character arc, built it so carefully over time with symbology and detail, and decided to just flop it against the ground. I’m holding out for something to make sense of that. Most likely, yes, just bad writing, and the lasting flavor of the show will suffer for it.

To me he just became cocky and paid for it with his life, like any other ruler. In this he ain’t much different than his human counterparts.

 

[Krayzkat]

Almost certainly true at this point, but you ask why? Because it’s a massive disappointment to see how the writers took such a mysterious and ominous character arc, built it so carefully over time with symbology and detail, and decided to just flop it against the ground. I’m holding out for something to make sense of that. Most likely, yes, just bad writing, and the lasting flavor of the show will suffer for it.

Yeah i would like some answers at least. What do the symbols mean? etc Maybe HBO are keeping all the mystery for the prequel shows? I heard GRRM said there would be a show about the long night!

Maybe there won't be anybody sitting on the Iron Throne after episode 6. Maybe whoever 'wins' it will destroy it and form a council/round table of equals for all the kingdoms/areas? Jon the north, Sansa the riverlands, Tyrion or Jaime Casterly Rock area, Gendry in Stormlands, new prince or princess that was mentioned this episode in Dorne, Bronne in Highgarden (although after this episode he doesn't deserve it), whats-her-face-Theon's-sister in the Iron islands, someone in the Vale (although i dunno who could fill that role, Sansa maybe but she would fit better in Riverlands due to her mothers line), and maybe have the Kings Landing area too with Varys (being a eunuch his successors could be elected or something).... this would mean Daenarys dying or being killed

 

[zmunkz]

Oh and what was with Missandei being captured, they really found her, and only her, amidst all they wreckage, and took her prisoner...? Pretty contrived.

 

[Alphazoid]

Not sure about this season. Everything seems so tacky/rushed for quick closure. And sansa reminded me of why i've never been fond of her.

 

[Krayzkat]

Yes i agree. This season (and last tbh) everything has been rushed and plot holes have been all over the place. I think they should have stuck to the 10 episodes per season, and maybe even made more seasons too. Thing is though, that the cast are all getting older, and writers are probably wanting to move on to something else. If they did more seasons, then Arya would start GOT aged 12 and by end of season 10 she would be nearly 30!

 

[martin2345uk]

Sloppy production values with that blatant Starbucks coffee cup on show!

 

[Falhófnir]

One thing I was quite impressed with is how they managed to convey that sense of maddening frustration at being so close yet unable to hit back - after Euron downed Rhaegal and then after Cersei had Missandei executed! I guess kinda playing off that fatigued feeling that we're up against the last hurdle but it's proving really difficult to scale, hopefully this will make whatever pay-off we get worth it?

Other than that I was this week honestly a little disappointed in the direction they've taken post NK. After feeling they played the battle of Winterfell just a fraction too safe, I was surprised they doubled down on plot armour for Tyrion and, well, pretty much everyone who was sailing with Dany when they were ambushed I''m also beginning to feel a bit of regression in characterisation here, Daenerys character (in particular) is like a totally different character to earlier seasons, and I don't feel it's been driven by her experiences, she's tending towards hard-line autocrat with little to drive her in that direction in all honesty. The fractiousness of the Targaryen/Northern alliance seems a bit forced, particularly given Sansa should want Cersei off the throne more than anything else, and if she's meant to have learned from her character arc, it's that you can't completely expect to have everything perfectly your way.

This was always going to be a difficult thing to wrap up - even more for the fact GRRM hasn't gotten around to figuring a lot of this out yet (though in all honesty at this point I think the books and show are distant cousins at best, and we might see quite a lot of differences start to open up once TWoW is published). If they do tend towards a happy(ier) ending I think that might fit what they've set up better here, though it won't be as true to the raw and unforgiving nature of the series as it began, I feel at some point since the start of season 7 we've already subtly crossed that line anyway.

 

[zmunkz]

I''m also beginning to feel a bit of regression in characterisation here, Daenerys character (in particular) is like a totally different character to earlier seasons, and I don't feel it's been driven by her experiences

^this.

It's honestly like the writers couldn't work out good conclusions so they're just pushing people in directions that create some short-term conflict. Good epic fantasy uses these long character arcs to place everyone in just the right place for a shocking but inevitable conclusion. This doesn't feel like that convergence at all... it feels like desperate writers shifting people around to try and get in a few more surprises, and maybe to justify the not-so-brilliant landing they've picked out.

 

[Bug-Creator]

Oh and what was with Missandei being captured, they really found her, and only her, amidst all they wreckage, and took her prisoner...?

She was the only capture of any value, rest would have been snuffed right on the beach.

 

[AustinIllini]

At some point, it feels like HBO said "we need to wrap this up" and then they did. It's all rushed and suddenly everyone of any merit is invincible. That being said, I think people are too hard on the producers/writers. They were clearly told they have one and a half seasons left after season 6.

And I don't buy the "they ran out of Martin material" take, either. Season 6 was great and didn't have a book.

 

[yaxomoxay]

Looks like Starbucks was featured on GoT yesterday night:

https://nypost.com/2019/05/06/games-of-thrones-accidentally-leaves-coffee-cup-in-episode/

 

[Shanghaichica]

Is Euron thick? Cersei told him she was pregnant with his child. Then Tyrion shows up and mentions the baby. The last time Tyrion was with Cersei they hadn’t even slept together.

 

[ritmomundo]

Ep 8x04

It definitely feels like they’re rushing a little to the end. With last week’s abrupt end to the NK, and now this again with the fast travel (one scene Dany’s in Winterfell, the next they’re approaching Dragonstone), with only 2 eps left I imagine they’ve got a lot to cram in.

I’m glad they’ve gotten a few of the goodbyes out of the way and closed up some story lines. With so many characters in the show, the last thing I’d want to watch is a 45-minute montage of goodbyes in the last episode (à la LOTR: Return of the King).

Poor Ghost though, he looked so sad. I don’t know why, but it seems so out of character for Jon to ghost Ghost the way he has been.

Brienne, I don’t feel sorry for her. She knew who Jaime was/is. He and Cersei are bonded in so many ways, Cersei will always have his heart.

Speaking of, despite all her hatred for him, I’m surprised she still couldn’t kill Tyrion. But I’m not sure why Cersei wouldn’t just destroy her enemy when they’re just right there. Instead she poked the bear by killing Missandei, almost as if she wants Dany to retaliate. Hm. Cersei is a strategist, there must be a bigger plan in her mind.

The coffee cup, hah! Of course they’d serve Starbucks in Winterfell! 2 years and only 6 episodes, I can’t believe they didn’t catch that.. Maybe it’ll be edited out for the blu-ray release.

 

[smallcoffee]

I think Sansa ends up on the throne. She’s getting Dany and Cersei to wipe each other out. Or somehow she gets Jon on the throne. She’s playing the game for keeps.

 

[zmunkz]

seems so out of character for Jon to ghost Ghost the way he has been.

Well, Jon's not a wolf anymore, he's a dragon now. Too bad for him he turned his back on his wolf just before his dragon died. Seems like a metaphor is in there.

 

[ritmomundo]

I''m also beginning to feel a bit of regression in characterisation here, Daenerys character (in particular) is like a totally different character to earlier seasons, and I don't feel it's been driven by her experiences, she's tending towards hard-line autocrat with little to drive her in that direction in all honesty.

^this.

It's honestly like the writers couldn't work out good conclusions so they're just pushing people in directions that create some short-term conflict. Good epic fantasy uses these long character arcs to place everyone in just the right place for a shocking but inevitable conclusion. This doesn't feel like that convergence at all... it feels like desperate writers shifting people around to try and get in a few more surprises, and maybe to justify the not-so-brilliant landing they've picked out.

I’ve always felt like Dany was a bit of a villain. We’re shown her good side (compassion for her allies, sympathy for slaves, and love for her dragons), so it feels like she’s the heroine of the story, but she’s also had an evil streak in her since the very beginning. She's unashamedly killed anyone who stood in her way on her journey through Essos and to Westeros… She had her reasons, but her rule of thumb has basically been “join me or die.. bend the knee or die.. get in my way and die.” She's butting heads with Sansa because, if it wasn't for her love for Jon, she knows she probably could've taken Winterfell by force.

In that final scene, I think if the positions were flipped and Dany was standing atop the castle wall with Cersei on the ground with an army of 50, I can honestly imagine Dany would 'dracarys' them all. This is partly why I'm surprised Cersei didn't.