GOODBYE, APPLE.

[ITguy2016]

ITguy: Per my last sentence, all I will say is thank you and have a nice day.

You're welcome. And the same to you.
[doublepost=1477780100][/doublepost]

How far back does one need to go? Microsoft did that from early on. Other types of companies did that before we had home computers. Crushing competition has taken on many forms and is not really all that "new."

It has yet to be demonstrated that, in the example given, Microsoft bought a company to kill off their competition. In fact it hasn't even been established the product in question was even a competitor.
[doublepost=1477780164][/doublepost]

I did look at some of the promos for this Microsoft product and while I wish it had a couple of more items within, it certainly does compete with the iMac, Cintiq, and more and in some areas completely leap frogs the iMac. When we talk form and function, the Studio has it over the iMac in terms of real function first and then reasonable form. If this Microsoft offering allowed for more than 32gigs RAM the jump from Apple might have been faster for some pros in the photo/graphic/vid-movie industry.

I'm not convinced the two are competing for the same audience.

 

[mijail]

I'm not denying they did it. I'm asking you to support your assertion they bought they company merely to kill off the product. So far I have not seen the requested support.

"Merely"? Who said "merely", and who cares anyway? Are we playing strawman now?

Let me remind you the original discussion. Someone talked about Microsoft "embracing" standards, I reminded him about Microsoft's noted history of "embracing", and you jumped in to say that Microsoft hadn't done that in the last decade. When shown that Microsoft was last seen playing their favourite game 6 months ago, you seemingly want me to turn to mind-reading or something - and certified mind-reading at that, to show what exactly was in their heads.

Well, sorry, I can't read minds. Just the same that no-one could read Microsoft's minds the 30 years earlier. And yet they were found guilty enough to be fined a number of times. Right? (Google is your friend. Or Bing, if that floats your boat)

And the point is that they didn't just finish doing it 10 years ago. I already mentioned examples for 2015 and 2014 in the first search results page, looks like you preferred to just get to the mind reading instead of looking at the low-hanging fruit of evidence.

... why are we even discusing this? Are you just trying to argue that Microsoft doesn't Microsoft?

 

[ITguy2016]

"Merely"? Who said "merely", and who cares anyway? Are we playing strawman now?

Let me remind you the original discussion. Someone talked about Microsoft "embracing" standards, I reminded him about Microsoft's noted history of "embracing", and you jumped in to say that Microsoft hadn't done that in the last decade. When shown that Microsoft was last seen playing their favourite game 6 months ago, you seemingly want me to turn to mind-reading or something - and certified mind-reading at that, to show what exactly was in their heads.

Well, sorry, I can't read minds. Just the same that no-one could read Microsoft's minds the 30 years earlier. And yet they were found guilty enough to be fined a number of times. Right? (Google is your friend. Or Bing, if that floats your boat)

And the point is that they didn't just finish doing it 10 years ago. I already mentioned examples for 2015 and 2014 in the first search results page, looks like you preferred to just get to the mind reading instead of looking at the low-hanging fruit of evidence.

... why are we even discusing this? Are you just trying to argue that Microsoft doesn't Microsoft?

It's obvious you have too much hate for Microsoft in order to be able to have an objective conversation about this so i won't bother to try to have one any longer.

 

[mathpunk]

I thing I can seem to understand is why so many Microsoft fanboys hang out here just to seemingly troll Mac users.

 

[phrehdd]

You're welcome. And the same to you.
[doublepost=1477780100][/doublepost]
It has yet to be demonstrated that, in the example given, Microsoft bought a company to kill off their competition. In fact it hasn't even been established the product in question was even a competitor.
[doublepost=1477780164][/doublepost]
I'm not convinced the two are competing for the same audience.

Microsoft ate up Foxpro. In turn they took the best part of Foxpro and put it into another application of their own. Foxpro was relegated to a very niche position that in turn killed off some of the 3rd party additions for Foxpro. This was a typical Microsoft move as it rammed Access to the front. In fact Access was touted as being fully VB compatible which, as DR DOBBS pointed out, was a complete lie. Sadly, Access was promoted so highly and shoved in with MS Office garbage that businesses grabbed it and abandoned more tried and true db tools and db's that were based upon dbase itself. Executive Software was pressured into creating that crippled version of Diskeeper as the "in house" de-frag tool for Windows. There are many stories of Gate's nasty behaviors and how they diminished or destroyed companies in the earlier days of Microsoft (most pre NT 3.5). I am sure Phillipe Khan and several others of his caliber can provide a long list of Microsoft's questionable business exploits of the time.

The newest MS STUDIO hardware set up is certainly in line to compare with iMacs for pro work or advanced power users and in particular, those that have applications that will exploit Open GL / Nvidia etc. Its a pretty each contrast and compare. A secondary or bonus is it is certainly a better computer for those that do gaming on the side.

 

[ITguy2016]

Microsoft ate up Foxpro. In turn they took the best part of Foxpro and put it into another application of their own. Foxpro was relegated to a very niche position that in turn killed off some of the 3rd party additions for Foxpro. This was a typical Microsoft move as it rammed Access to the front. In fact Access was touted as being fully VB compatible which, as DR DOBBS pointed out, was a complete lie. Sadly, Access was promoted so highly and shoved in with MS Office garbage that businesses grabbed it and abandoned more tried and true db tools and db's that were based upon dbase itself. Executive Software was pressured into creating that crippled version of Diskeeper as the "in house" de-frag tool for Windows. There are many stories of Gate's nasty behaviors and how they diminished or destroyed companies in the earlier days of Microsoft (most pre NT 3.5). I am sure Phillipe Khan and several others of his caliber can provide a long list of Microsoft's questionable business exploits of the time

Um, how about discussing the current Microsoft? Not denying Microsoft had questionable business practices in the past.

The newest MS STUDIO hardware set up is certainly in line to compare with iMacs for pro work or advanced power users and in particular, those that have applications that will exploit Open GL / Nvidia etc. Its a pretty each contrast and compare. A secondary or bonus is it is certainly a better computer for those that do gaming on the side.

Perhaps...I'm not convinced.

 

[JimGoshorn]

Hey, Jim. I think studio is in your area, right?

The event was in NY city and I'm upstate. I do have a Microsoft store about 1.5 hour drive from me. I'm tempted...
[doublepost=1477782950][/doublepost]

No one in the professional creative industry in graphic design will ever use a Windows machine.

You are kidding right? I worked with artists who used Windows. Why do you think that Adobe added Windows software?

 

[macuserlongtime]

I have a real fury about the past few days, weeks and couple of years events - I feel like I can express myself here without being slammed down by the weird trolls and shills that are posting elsewhere here.

I am not a pro who depends on Apple for my livelihood, but I understand that there are many people who are / were - and the reason we all got here was that they provided what we wanted and needed in a way that every other company did not.

Now everything seems the inverse - every other company is providing what we want, and Apple have totally changed character - and having supported them and put our eggs in their basket - it feels like a real kick in the nuts.

There are some things that have happened the past couple of days that have confirmed my feelings from the past couple of years - charging for an extension to the power cable, getting rid of the audio jack on the phone, not being upfront about the capability of the ports on one of the new mbps, ...

Over the years I really loved Apple, but I always kept an open mind and tried out other companies' stuff. I really enjoyed my Note 3 - it even had a little notification at the top to let me know if my phone was in silent. This has been one of my biggest bugbears of the 'apple universe' - how they always think they know better than me what I need. Like when my iphone goes off but I don't hear it - it's my fault. I never had that issue with the Note 3 - coz I could see with a glance if it was on silent.

And this brings me to the strange phenomenon of apple apologists on this forum. I raised this point once- and I got universally trounced- I was such a stupid idiot to not remember the position I'd put the switch on the side of the phone, and if I really wanted to know, I could just touch it - like that is an easier solution than glancing at the phone and seeing a tiny icon. Anyway, that's just my beef with appple. Apart from the fact that I've owned pretty much every product they've produced in the past twenty years - because they were good.

I now have an iphone 6plus, first iwatch, 2015 macbook pro and ipad air - they will all be my last.

I don't even have any difficulty, any reservations in saying I will not buy another Apple product until this 'regime' changes - there's not even an ounce of regret. I have had a Surface Pro 3 for a while and the thing about this machine is that, while it was not so great to start with, it gets better over time. They released a new pen - and made it compatible with this machine - even though it was a year old. they just released this puck thing - and it's compatible too. I just had a look at the microsoft website - have you seen the crazy new ergonomic keyboard? they keep trying to make things better.

As far as I can see from Apple, they keep trying to find ways to say to their customers - you don't know what is good for you, we know. And for that privelege, we will charge you more and more.

The thing that was the tipping point for me was this - I used to have the Galaxy Note 3 - and I never had any bad feeling about this phone whatsoever. I then decided I wanted to get into development, and that I should have an ios device, so I bought the iphone 6plus - the new one at the time. And when I wanted to charge that thing - it was always falling off - the table, the bed, in the car - because they only gave about 1m of cable. So I bought some 2m cables from Amazon - they were 'certified' - but they never worked after an ios update - the phone gave me some kind of message saying 'Not approved' - after an update (after they had worked for about 6 months just fine) - so my only option was to buy cables from the Apple store. They wanted £20 for a 2m cable - just to charge the phone! That was the tipping point for me.


And everything that has happened since has just got worse and worse and worse.

Hopefully, maybe, people will say - enough is enough. Another team will take charge, orient themselves about all the really great things Apple offered the world and start again.

But right now - all I can say and feel - is a giant great big - FU Apple

 

[phrehdd]

To the OP, I surely get what you are saying. I find it strange that it is now Microsoft that is putting out hardware that is much more in line with how Apple use to do things - put the user first in mind and give him the tool to succeed. I can talk for a long while about all that is right with Apple but in the same breath, i can talk with equal duration all that is wrong. That is not a good show.

It appears that Apple wants us to buy a completely new device every 3-5 years and not provide a traditional path of simply upgrading the purchased device we have already. It is starting to seem like the philosophy is also working on Apple's customer base as people after 3-5 years become disgusted with Apple's mentality and forced "you want it" product line. Hmmm all peculiar to be sure.

 

[AidenShaw]

No one in the professional creative industry in graphic design will ever use a Windows machine.

Oh, how we sometimes miss the "thumbs down" button.

 

[SDAVE]

You are kidding right? I worked with artists who used Windows. Why do you think that Adobe added Windows software?

Maybe in the 3D industry, but not the graphic design industry.

Good luck with Windows.
[doublepost=1477789329][/doublepost]

Oh, how we sometimes miss the "thumbs down" button.

Here' I'll give you a thumbs up to even out the hate you're throwing at me for being honest.

 

[macuserlongtime]

editing issue I guess- post got substituted with a big quote from a previous quote. never mind - sorry about that

 

[AidenShaw]

Here' I'll give you a thumbs up to even out the hate you're throwing at me for being honest.

If you honestly believe that "No one in the professional creative industry in graphic design will ever use a Windows machine" you should look at the people buying Z-series workstations.

Apart from the people locked into FCPX workflows, the people using multi-platform tools are moving to where the power and support is. And that's not rose-gold toys from Cupertino.

 

[macuserlongtime]

The peculiar thing for me is that I cannot fathom what they are thinking.
I would imagine a company might think : "What does the customer want?" and we will provide that.
I can also remember Apple, somewhat arrogantly, but we all loved them for it, thinking:"We will make something so amazing, that people didn't even know they wanted it, and then they won't be able to help themselves but buy it, because it will be so great."

But now? WTF are they thinking? It really is baffling. They are alienating goodness knows how many of their smartphone customers with the headphone jack decision, and now a very large percentage of their mac customers with their latest release, combined with lack of updates for the rest of the mac line. I really can't imagine what they are thinking - what is the gain for them?

 

[MacStu09]

No one in the professional creative industry in graphic design will ever use a Windows machine.

There's always a few dumb things in these threads, and I'm hoping this was supposed to be sarcastic. Because, if serious, we have a winner for silliest post of the month, lol.

Some people here have must have been so glued to Apple that they have no idea what all has taken place in the past 10 years. It's 2016, more and more creative professionals are switching to PC's again, because Apple's hardware (largely GFX) just isn't cutting it. Stop having loyalty to brands, just go with the better product. It used to be PC, then it was Mac, now we're back to PC's on top. It's just a fact...there is no single Mac that can keep up with the HP Z line right now. That's not an opinion, it's simply a fact.

 

[flat five]

where are the function keys - how can I use Emacs?

the F keys on macs are more hardware controls (brightness/volume/pause-play).. they've been that for a decade+.

like, people writing software for osx aren't making the function keys of any importance.. mac/osx has an extra modifier key (control) when additional keystrokes are required/desired.

idk, pretty much anyone lamenting the loss of Fkeys on the macs are full of it.. especially because-> even if they really need the fkeys, they can still use them because that strip will still work like them.. and further, if windows is being used on the machine, the touch strip will only show F keys (as the software isn't programmed to show something else)

 

[SDAVE]

If you honestly believe that "No one in the professional creative industry in graphic design will ever use a Windows machine" you should look at the people buying Z-series workstations.

Apart from the people locked into FCPX workflows, the people using multi-platform tools are moving to where the power and support is. And that's not rose-gold toys from Cupertino.

Hilarious.
You have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[phrehdd]

SDAVE - You kind of painted yourself into a corner with your comment that was absolute in nature. What I will say is that many folks in the graphic (and some photog biz) gravitate to the Apple side because they want simple true plug and play. Turn on your machine and get to work and no real hassles. That was once the case for people to remain with Apple after more graphic and photog apps started to appear on the Windows side. Today, I see all Mac shops, shops all Windows and mostly mixed shops.

Back in my IT/IS days at one company, it was Apple that inspired me to set up all desktops with the most minimalist screens possible so that people could immediately get to their needed apps and not have to jump through hoops. This was set for over 4000 Windows desktops. Similar was done with "short cuts," stripped of access and rights to various parts of the OS and sub menus...and more ... all inspired by the Mac. This was part of an OS upgrade project and was extremely well received by upper management - simplicity with purpose in a business venue. - After all the goal is to have the end user turn on the machine and be able to get immediately to work (use their applications).

 

[jeff7117]

Hilarious.
You have no idea what you're talking about.

The days of Apple controlling the design industry are gonna end really quick if they keep up the terrible hardware updates. 16 Gigs of RAM, max, in a pro laptop. Yet another example of putting form before function.

Apple is making products that THEY want you to have. They're not making products that most users actually want. I'd gladly give up that crappy touch bar for more ram.

I think a lot of people will start switching when it comes time to buy new hardware. Apple even admitted that they aren't interested in turning out new products on a regular schedule to keep up with changing hardware. The switchover has already begun in Post Production and that used to be a serious market for Apple. The designers will be next.

 

[AidenShaw]

The days of Apple controlling the design industry are gonna end really quick if they keep up the terrible hardware updates. 16 Gigs of RAM, max, in a pro laptop. Yet another example of putting form before function.

Apple is making products that THEY want you to have. They're not making products that most users actually want. I'd gladly give up that crappy touch bar for more ram.

I think a lot of people will start switching when it comes time to buy new hardware. Apple even admitted that they aren't interested in turning out new products on a regular schedule to keep up with changing hardware. The switchover has already begun in Post Production and that used to be a serious market for Apple. The designers will be next.

But it's thinner....

 

[phrehdd]

The days of Apple controlling the design industry are gonna end really quick if they keep up the terrible hardware updates. 16 Gigs of RAM, max, in a pro laptop. Yet another example of putting form before function.

Apple is making products that THEY want you to have. They're not making products that most users actually want. I'd gladly give up that crappy touch bar for more ram.

I think a lot of people will start switching when it comes time to buy new hardware. Apple even admitted that they aren't interested in turning out new products on a regular schedule to keep up with changing hardware. The switchover has already begun in Post Production and that used to be a serious market for Apple. The designers will be next.

I have to agree with you. What is actually more amusing is that if they just added one key on the keyboard that would operate a template bar on the screen, one could pop up the template bar with "buttons" on it or tabs and navigate. There would be no hit on the battery. Then again, if Cook and the rest of his must be thin(ner) at all costs cronies would stop for a minute and realize that they are thin enough and should concentrate on USING the device, they might be able to start being really innovative or at least meet the needs of the user.

Your comment on the 16 gigs of RAM is right on. The truth is not just the battery may be a problem but heat dissipation (really a problem due to getting thinner and thinner).

 

[jeff7117]

Your comment on the 16 gigs of RAM is right on. The truth is not just the batter may be a problem but heat dissipation (really a problem due to getting thinner and thinner).

Lots of swapping to disk with only 16 gigs of ram...

 

[SDAVE]

It's pretty easy, if you need a high end workstation, go to Windows 10.

Good luck with Windows.

 

[AidenShaw]

Lots of swapping to disk with only 16 gigs of ram...

I really find the 16 GiB limit to be absurd.

Dell and HP laptops support 64 GiB of RAM - what is Tim thinking to come out with only 16 GiB.

 

[jeff7117]

It's pretty easy, if you need a high end workstation, go to Windows 10.

Good luck with Windows.

That's just it, I actually use Windows 10, and it's not bad. Yeah, it's UGLY, but really, it doesn't keep me from getting work done. Once you are inside the app, and unless you are using a native OS X app, you really won't know the difference.

I may have 20 years invested in Apple and OS X (since os8 through today) but that doesn't mean I can't learn to use another OS or refuse to see the benefits of another OS besides the one Apple uses. Don't get me wrong, I used to be the biggest Windows hater. However, Apple has made it clear that they don't see a future in PC's. They want you to buy a iPad Pro.