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It's pretty easy, if you need a high end workstation, go to Windows 10.

Good luck with Windows.

[x] All of Adobe product line on Win 10

[x] Various movie/vid editing applications such as Avid + internal/external cards on Win 10

[x] Audio editing tools apps + internal/external cards all usable with Win 10

[x] CADD, 3D framing, and more Applications available on Win 10

Hmmm seems the list goes on and on with respect to applications and added hardware

[x] may reside on custom built computers that provide for internal expansion

[x] large option of ready made computers by companies that may have negotiated service levels attached to warranties

[x] option to use computers with large level of swap out and upgrade

[x] various computers capable of using bonded or higher throughput network connectivity


LUCK HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IT

Mac holds the OS hostage while Windows OS holds the PC computer hostage.
 
Some might say "GOODBYE" and bash this brand and that brand. But guess what? You will still be using products from them. You really think most people will stop using anything Apple-related? I tried for three years and I was still being pulled back to use iOS. Will everyone stop using Microsoft because people hate them so much? Will people stop using Google services if they hate Android so much? Will people stop buying Samsung TVs, memory cards, and appliances because they hate Galaxy phones or what happened to the Note7? Goodbye seems only temporary. Brand allegiance and brand bashing is a general waste of time.
 
Apple = Loser - Windows = Winner. It really is weird, but Tim Cook is foisting upon us what HE wants us to have, not what Mr. Jobs did which was tap in to our collective brains and somehow figure out what WE wanted to have.

There are just too many in this forum (which I became a proud member of the minute I got my mac mini 4 ish years ago) who cannot get out quickly enough. It has just been way way way too long between basic updates if nothing else. I probably also spent 6 months here researching the purchase, as I am wont to do :)

And right now there appears to be an exodus, mainly to Windows, some Linux, but all away from Apple because they are behind.

Win 8 sucked so bad I thought MS might go out of business. But 10 is enough better, very fast, and quite reliable enough so that I felt OK going back to it. Truth is, I like the UI better. Those damn little three colored dots on Apple windows were just so damn small they made me crazy. And yeah, I know about keyboard shortcuts, I just do not use them. That got me thinking that the basic UI for OSX/MacOS had not changed in an insanely long time.

I am gonna swap out my SSD and add Ram and not even give it a second thought, much less block out a weekend to take apart a mini or God forbid MacBook Pro. I may even remove the video card to get rid of that fan noise too. It is nice to have options.

I like my Dell, but am for sure gonna check out this at some point: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01LYD33G...TF8&colid=2GQ0409L89MH5&coliid=I1YV81OMHO3FOR
 
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What is actually more amusing is that if they just added one key on the keyboard that would operate a template bar on the screen, one could pop up the template bar with "buttons" on it or tabs and navigate.
i understand your dislike of the touch bar if you think the above is a better solution (or even a solution to anything at all).

they were considering how to incorporate touch into osx.. the first method is obviously touch screen.. i don't doubt at all r&d has a hobbled together touch screen mac/macOS.. they also considered making the trackpad more like an iPhone screen down there (which would also be pretty cool imo but at the same time, probably not very usable ;) ).. their solution to adding touch was via replacing the function keys with a dedicated touch screen.

what's it a solution to? it can essentially increase the size of your laptop screen.. application canvases can grow because the icons won't have to be on the main screen anymore.. instead of a row of icons at the top of the display, they'll now be at the bottom of the (essentially extended) screen.. further, the advantages of being able to touch icons (which is the main advantage of touch in the first place) has been enhanced by placing those icons where your fingers already are..on the keyboard.

touching icons instead of clicking them is beneficial because your mouse doesn't have to leave the workspace.. if youre in the middle of a command which can accept further commands, you'll no longer have to move your mouse away from the point, click something else, return the mouse to where you want it.. you can just touch the other command.
it basically allows all you people who prefer to work through menus/icons instead of keystrokes to now work in a more beneficial way as you'll still get the visual recognition you're accustomed to at the speed of a shortcut user.. as well as gives keystroke & command line users more&faster options as certain things will become one touch calls instead of X_amt of key presses.

but your idea fails imo because it doesn't eliminate mouse clicks or keystrokes* and instead, potentially adds to the amount.. also, not only do you still have to move the cursor away from your work, you're risking the canvas gets visually shielded by this 'template bar' with buttons and tabs.. cursor isn't where you want it and you can't see where you want it anyway.

idk, the thing is most certainly innovative.. whether or not you understand the design or like the design or will make use of the implementation is one thing.. if you don't like it then cool.. there's pretty much nothing that everyone likes.. but don't make the mistake of you not liking/understanding something as the determining factor as to if something is or isn't innovative..
the thing will most certainly change the way people work with laptops in a positive fashion.


*-which as i've attempted to outline around here time and time again are the single biggest slowdowns of anyone's (creative) workflow.. not ghz or mbs.. it's the freaking slow ass mouse and keyboard.
(ie-- dec'13 , apr'14 , jan'14 , jan'16)
 
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Dell and HP laptops support 64 GiB of RAM - what is Tim thinking to come out with only 16 GiB.
XPS doesn't? The only laptops from either that go that high are the workstation variety. Which are heavier, though they have a variety of processors to choose from including Xeons, PCIe SSDs, dedicated mainstream or pro cards, and other goodies. But they also command a higher price than the XPS lineup.
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You're giving Tim too much credit. Tim is Steve Ballmer 2.0
Sure, but thank god we're not seeing sweat drip from his sweater.
 
i understand your dislike of the touch bar if you think the above is a better solution (or even a solution to anything at all).

they were considering how to incorporate touch into osx.. the first method is obviously touch screen.. i don't doubt at all r&d has a hobbled together touch screen mac/macOS.. they also considered making the trackpad more like an iPhone screen down there (which would also be pretty cool imo but at the same time, probably not very usable ;) ).. their solution to adding touch was via replacing the function keys with a dedicated touch screen.

what's it a solution to? it can essentially increase the size of your laptop screen.. application canvases can grow because the icons won't have to be on the main screen anymore.. instead of a row of icons at the top of the display, they'll now be at the bottom of the (essentially extended) screen.. further, the advantages of being able to touch icons (which is the main advantage of touch in the first place) has been enhanced by placing those icons where your fingers already are..on the keyboard.

touching icons instead of clicking them is beneficial because your mouse doesn't have to leave the workspace.. if youre in the middle of a command which can accept further commands, you'll no longer have to move your mouse away from the point, click something else, return the mouse to where you want it.. you can just touch the other command.
it basically allows all you people who prefer to work through menus/icons instead of keystrokes to now work in a more beneficial way as you'll still get the visual recognition you're accustomed to at the speed of a shortcut user.. as well as gives keystroke & command line users more&faster options as certain things will become one touch calls instead of X_amt of key presses.

but your idea fails imo because it doesn't eliminate mouse clicks or keystrokes* and instead, potentially adds to the amount.. also, not only do you still have to move the cursor away from your work, you're risking the canvas gets visually shielded by this 'template bar' with buttons and tabs.. cursor isn't where you want it and you can't see where you want it anyway.

idk, the thing is most certainly innovative.. whether or not you understand the design or like the design or will make use of the implementation is one thing.. if you don't like it then cool.. there's pretty much nothing that everyone likes.. but don't make the mistake of you not liking/understanding something as the determining factor as to if something is or isn't innovative..
the thing will most certainly change the way people work with laptops in a positive fashion.


*-which as i've attempted to outline around here time and time again are the single biggest slowdowns of anyone's (creative) workflow.. not ghz or mbs.. it's the freaking slow ass mouse and keyboard.
(ie-- dec'13 , apr'14 , jan'14 , jan'16)

I didn't say I disliked the touch bar but I don't consider it revolutionary since assigning tasks, short cuts, macros is old news so this then is evolutionary.
As for a touch pad style laptop from Mac, if anyone is familiar with OWC, they used to front for a company or group that converted Mac laptops to touch screen. Again, this is nothing new.

While using my rMBP, I keep m dock hidden to help maximize screen real estate. There is zero reason why another bar couldn't as well pop up and have a one to one correspondence with a key on the keyboard and each, per a given app that is in the fore front. Again - nothing new here as this notion has been done with Apple when "folders" are used to hold Apps on the dock. Instead of folders with apps, one could call up a macro or routine that is oriented towards a given application. Then again, there have been mice, trackballs and more with additional buttons that correspond to functions, controls and more for certain apps (such as Photoshop which worked with my trackball). OR if you are like me and and are left handed, you can use a trackball/mouse or touch pad with your right hand and use your left hand with a stylus to gain more control of both the art and palettes...and all of this is not revolutionary but another way to skin the proverbial cat. Using modern tech is merely evolutionary.
 
It's obvious you have too much hate for Microsoft in order to be able to have an objective conversation about this so i won't bother to try to have one any longer.

Heh. First it was about dates, but that was too easily debunked. So then it was about reading their minds, and now it's just about reading my mind. Yeah, the problem is my hate, not your lack of evidence.

:D
 
I did look at some of the promos for this Microsoft product and while I wish it had a couple of more items within, it certainly does compete with the iMac, Cintiq, and more and in some areas completely leap frogs the iMac. When we talk form and function, the Studio has it over the iMac in terms of real function first and then reasonable form. If this Microsoft offering allowed for more than 32gigs RAM the jump from Apple might have been faster for some pros in the photo/graphic/vid-movie industry.

As a professional artist I think the Microsoft studio seem like an absolute brilliant product. I've owned 3 maxed out bto iMacs over the last 6 years but what Microsoft presented is a whole new re-invention for professional artists and all-in-one computers. But since I do more than painting, I had enough of all-in-one computers depicting what hardware I can get. But if anyone's choice stands between a surface studio or an iMac it should be a no brainer decision today. Personally I hope Microsoft will release a studio tablet monitor only without the pc, which I can attach to a custom built machine. Then I get a great monitor, tablet and a powerful computer at the same time. This would make Wacom go bankrupt in an instant. Cintiq's looks completely outdated compared to this screen.
 
No one in the professional creative industry in graphic design will ever use a Windows machine.

You have obviously been drinking way too much apple coolaid. Time to wake up! Pretty much everyone doing heavy 3D work, realtime 3D such as game development, 3D sculpting or similar choose windows over Mac. If you go to sites such as artstation.com I'm pretty sure 90% of their users use windows.
I'm a professional artist myself and I just switched back to pc. And after seeing the underpowered and overpriced MacBook Pro with the stupid and generally useless touch strip bar I'm boycotting Apple Mac computers completely in the future. They simple don't make proper products anymore, the only thing apple seem to innovate these days is the price vs. product ratio.
 

I'm a creative director in a games company with 45 people. I also do 3D, illustration and concept art for commercials, movies and games industry in general. And been doing so for more than 20 years. Apple was THE computer used in commercial companies for many years... never for the games industry or movie industry vfx. Today most commercial companies use pc as well for advanced vfx, they just have the macs for laptops to bring in meetings or for the receptionist and the simpler 2d print stuff which has reached its peak in what you actually need in a computer.
 
i understand your dislike of the touch bar if you think the above is a better solution (or even a solution to anything at all).

they were considering how to incorporate touch into osx.. the first method is obviously touch screen.. i don't doubt at all r&d has a hobbled together touch screen mac/macOS.. they also considered making the trackpad more like an iPhone screen down there (which would also be pretty cool imo but at the same time, probably not very usable ;) ).. their solution to adding touch was via replacing the function keys with a dedicated touch screen.

Thing is, Macs with touchscreens have been available for a long time, either dedicated or otherwise. Some companies fit touchscreens to macs, personally I use both VM OS X and remote desktop OS X with touchscreens and pen in much the same way as a Wacom Cintiq or companion. It works fine. Apples arguments are pure nonsense. I can remote my macs directly to my Surface and operate it in touch mode just as easily as I do Windows 10. Not everyone wants or needs touch but it's pretty arrogant for Apple to not even give you the option, especially as once you use touch in a well designed device, it is useful.

I specifically wanted to try OS X with touch to see if Apple was right, they are wrong. I can use touch with OS X any time I choose on my Windows PC. You can do the same with the bigger iPads. It works just dandy. I know this because I've been remoting my Macs onto touch devices since 2010. Their argument is pure bs.
 
To steal away Windows users.

It came around the time of the "I'm a Mac, and I'm a PC" era and when they switched to Intel.
I doubt it is as simple as that. Microsoft def did some kind of rescue act for the mac ( I think that's the reason Office was ported to the mac as part of the deal ) and maybe allowing bootcamp allowed apple to sell workstation class towers for people who needed both mac and windows. All this was at a time when the oMPs could compete with the dells, the Hps in workstation performance.

Many people just forget how good the oMPs were for people who used 3D DCC apps.

The nMP was a blunder proper, designing themselves into a corner.
 
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It's pretty easy, if you need a high end workstation, go to Windows 10.

Good luck with Windows.
What concerns do you have with Windows?
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XPS doesn't? The only laptops from either that go that high are the workstation variety. Which are heavier, though they have a variety of processors to choose from including Xeons, PCIe SSDs, dedicated mainstream or pro cards, and other goodies. But they also command a higher price than the XPS lineup.
I'm not sure what you're attempting to say with this post because, as Aiden said, both vendors produce laptops which accommodate 64GB of memory. However if you want to step back from 64GB you'll find plenty more support 32GB of memory...twice that of the MacBook Pro.
 
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Maybe in the 3D industry, but not the graphic design industry.
No, I'm talking regular graphics here. Not to mention I know a number of photographers in my area that use Windows. Google it and you will see that articles say that it is a matter of individual preference now. Originally, Macs had a total graphic advantage from fonts to display and printing. Those advantages are gone. Apps run as fast or faster on Windows. So now it's really down to a preference for MacOS or Windows.

Additionally, there was a post by a photographer who is an alpha tester for Adobe which said that color management in Windows is actually becoming better than on the Mac. Why? Because some idiot at Apple decided that all documents should be color managed so consequently you have to go through contortions to print out color profile targets to profile your printing papers. You used to be able to turn off color management and print the targets through Photoshop with no trouble. Then you had to use double profiles to nullify the management issue. Then Eric Chan of Adobe wrote a color printing utility to overcome the issue. Finally Adobe just threw in the towel and didn't try and support workarounds anymore. The management issues happened sometime around 10.5 or 10.6. Apple started getting oblivious to pro requirements back then and it's only getting worse.

I have owned Macs since the original 128k Mac and swore by them. Even talked people into getting Macs instead of Windows. Apple is pushing pros towards Windows and they are not going without trepidation but their options are getting narrower as Apple puts more and more value on consumer needs and glitz. Is Windows perfect, no but if you watched Microsoft's event, you saw more interest in moving forward and in creatives. Watch an Apple event and they always start with how much their products are loved, then they introduce products that are smaller and lighter and full of consumer glitz.

If you did a poll of pros, you would probably find that most of them just want hardware and software that have just enough to help them work efficiently and as quickly as possible. It's the old keep it simple stupid philosophy.

Consumers look for products that are very ooh and aah and have all kinds of doodads and innovations for the sake of innovating and to be the first to come out with "it". Sounds a lot like what Apple is doing, doesn't it? And that's why pros are beginning to leave...
 
No, I'm talking regular graphics here. Not to mention I know a number of photographers in my area that use Windows. Google it and you will see that articles say that it is a matter of individual preference now. Originally, Macs had a total graphic advantage from fonts to display and printing. Those advantages are gone. Apps run as fast or faster on Windows. So now it's really down to a preference for MacOS or Windows.

Additionally, there was a post by a photographer who is an alpha tester for Adobe which said that color management in Windows is actually becoming better than on the Mac. Why? Because some idiot at Apple decided that all documents should be color managed so consequently you have to go through contortions to print out color profile targets to profile your printing papers. You used to be able to turn off color management and print the targets through Photoshop with no trouble. Then you had to use double profiles to nullify the management issue. Then Eric Chan of Adobe wrote a color printing utility to overcome the issue. Finally Adobe just threw in the towel and didn't try and support workarounds anymore. The management issues happened sometime around 10.5 or 10.6. Apple started getting oblivious to pro requirements back then and it's only getting worse.

I have owned Macs since the original 128k Mac and swore by them. Even talked people into getting Macs instead of Windows. Apple is pushing pros towards Windows and they are not going without trepidation but their options are getting narrower as Apple puts more and more value on consumer needs and glitz. Is Windows perfect, no but if you watched Microsoft's event, you saw more interest in moving forward and in creatives. Watch an Apple event and they always start with how much their products are loved, then they introduce products that are smaller and lighter and full of consumer glitz.

If you did a poll of pros, you would probably find that most of them just want hardware and software that have just enough to help them work efficiently and as quickly as possible. It's the old keep it simple stupid philosophy.

Consumers look for products that are very ooh and aah and have all kinds of doodads and innovations for the sake of innovating and to be the first to come out with "it". Sounds a lot like what Apple is doing, doesn't it? And that's why pros are beginning to leave...

After every Apple "event" within the last two years, I've found myself consumed with desire to purchase a new computer – one that runs Windows.

I've gone over why I'm sticking with my MP 5,1 for the time being, so I won't repeat myself here, but I've also encountered plenty of fellow graphic designers who use and prefer Windows. It didn't used to be that way, of course. I've been doing this for 30+ years (from waxers, non-photo blue pens and percentage wheels to Adobe CS6) and in the beginning, there was simply no comparison: To do design work you had to have a Mac.

Today that's far from true. Adobe didn't go to great lengths to make their design applications work on both platforms for nothing. Obviously they saw some value in offering these tools to the Windows side.

Making categorical statements that no designers use Windows today is foolishly naive.
 
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