Goodbye

[bradl]

Here's my $.02 - first the OP joined and posted this thread in the Mac forum - he didn't seem too interested in discussing alternatives.

My sentiment is the same, why join an apple fan site just to complain. The thread was moved to the alternatives, but the fact remains he seemed more interested in not discussing alternatives to Macs and rather just bashing Apple. I think its fair to have a dialog on Apple's short comings but it seems he just came here to say goodbye even though he wasn't a member here.

With that, doesn't this thread meet the criteria to be wastelanded?

BL.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Had the OP signed up said he was moving to Mac after 15 years on Windows you would all be applauding and lauding him over his decision.

Apple won't miss him, none of you will miss him. But I suspect he has given some of you the opportunity to feel good about yourselves with some of those comments.

Exactly right

 

[ericwn]

To be fair it seems that his recent experiences left him very disappointed, he was with the Mac 15 years. He stated he is a basic user. Moved to Windows and it all 'just works' where do I hear that comment all of the time? Disappointed enough he signed up to vent. Happens a lot on this forum but the responses are very much dependent on how triggered you all are. Leaving the Mac for Windows is a good trigger for Apple faithful.

Had the OP signed up said he was moving to Mac after 15 years on Windows you would all be applauding and lauding him over his decision.

Apple won't miss him, none of you will miss him. But I suspect he has given some of you the opportunity to feel good about yourselves with some of those comments.

Yes yes 15 years and incapable of reverting back to his backup. Then pointing fingers at others.

Nuff said.

 

[TiggrToo]

When someone is single and non-committed in any relationship, having a one night stand and walking away from that relationship to go for someone newer is easy, because there is so much flexibility and freedom on the person's part. They say, there's no string attached, no obligation to answer to.

When someone is committed and married into any relationship and then they have kids, walking away from that relationship isn't easy, because there isn't so much of the flexibility and freedom compared to being single. You have an obligation to the marriage and to your kids that you don't have being single. You can go for someone newer, fresher, but there are consequences in doing that.

Owning a computer is the same way. Hardware accessories and software are your wife and kids. Some people can easily move on to something newer, because they have no single commitment to their hardware and software. It's like being single. I can meet someone new, have a fling, got bored and then just simply move on to something fresher. Many people see their relationship with their computers this way and prefer to have this type of relationship.

But there are people who see their relationship with computers like a marriage with kids. People buy a computer to invest in the software and data they will keep using, not just for 1 year or less, but for a long period of time. I had worked with some clients in the past on contract for BIG CORPORATIONS and even some government agencies that are still using Windows XP and Mac OS 9 and Tiger/Leopard to run their database and accounting software. They are still using floppies and Zip drives, and a few are still using tape drives! Their usage is similar like marriage, because it is "data" that kept them tied to old hardware. It is work I had created with legacy software and hardware that are difficult to convert to the newer system that kept me tied to using older hardware.

People do not realize that many of us don't just buy a computer to have a fling, because it is new. When you play games on the computer, your obligation to the computer and its data is little. You can afford to lose that data, because you are not obligated to keep that data for someone else, but you. But if you buy a computer for work related and the database and its data are worth something, then there is that obligation to keep and maintain that data on behalf of someone. Same like having kids; you can't just easily walk away and leave your kids homeless and hungry and cold as you would with having no kids at all.

Some of us had invested time, training and data that we put into using the software. It's a marriage and it's not like you can just stand up, move on and leave that behind in a flash. A few can, but I know that even big corporations can not upgrade all their computers to the latest. Some don't for the very reasons like what happens to a marriage ending in a divorce. It's expensive and it's messy.
A lot of companies that I worked with to maintain their legacy system all told me that it's much cheaper to maintain these systems so they can retrieve the data they have on their clients and not force their workers to switch to newer systems and be retrained to use newer software and convert the legacy data.

Like a marriage with kids; sooner or later the kids will leave and your obligation to them ends then. When my clients need end with what I can offer, then I'll move on to something newer. Same with the corporations that I had worked for in the past. When their obligations to the clients end, when they die, will their obligation to maintain their legacy systems end.

This is nothing like marriage with, or without kids.

You even thinking that there's any sort of similarities to be made is utterly preposterous.

 

[AZhappyjack]

To be fair it seems that his recent experiences left him very disappointed, he was with the Mac 15 years. He stated he is a basic user. Moved to Windows and it all 'just works' where do I hear that comment all of the time? Disappointed enough he signed up to vent. Happens a lot on this forum but the responses are very much dependent on how triggered you all are. Leaving the Mac for Windows is a good trigger for Apple faithful.

Had the OP signed up said he was moving to Mac after 15 years on Windows you would all be applauding and lauding him over his decision.

Apple won't miss him, none of you will miss him. But I suspect he has given some of you the opportunity to feel good about yourselves with some of those comments.

Absolute, unadulterated bull hockey.

I don't care what platform the OP or anyone else uses. What grinds me is that (1) a user with 15 year years of "experience" doesn't know better than to have a fallback for an upgrade to a major release of a computer operating system and that (2) this somehow NOT his fault. Use whatever platform you choose. But own the responsibility for your actions when you outrun your headlights.

And my opinion of myself hasn't changed one bit based on this thread or the OP.

 

[iluvmacs99]

He also announced the transition - which by definition says the current situation is changing... moving from this (PowerPC) to that (Intel)... he didn't say "NEVER", nor did he imply "NEVER"... seems to me that "NEVER" is vastly different from "there will be transition in the next two years. We're getting ready" - sounds pretty imminent to me ... wonder what he was "getting ready" for, if not abandoning PPC in favor of Intel? One cannot pick and choose parts of a statement to fit their argument. Context matters.

If you are to study Apple's history, you will know that Apple went through several transitions.

When Apple did the "transition" from 68k to PowerPC and from Classic Mac OS to Mac OSX, it took roughly 9 years to complete. They abandoned the "Classic" compatibility starting with OSX Leopard (10.5). Tiger was the last that offered Classic compatibility. Also, during the transition period from 68K to PPC, they had a built-in 68K emulator in classic OS starting from 7 much like what we are seeing now with Rosetta 1 (PPC to Intel) and Rosetta 2 (Intel to ARM). That compatibility was offered for a few years, plus when Apple transitioned from their proprietary ports such as ADB to a more standardized USB interface, 3rd party companies such as Griffin Technologies, Rose technologies and so forth produced dongles to ensure that older peripherals were still supported so your older non-USB type printers don't all of a sudden become obsolete.

I remembered this because that was how I transitioned from 68K with the Mac Plus, to Mac IIsi then to PowerMac 7100, 7600, G3, G4 and G5 and all of this was a "gradual" transition. We are offered choices.

9 years transition is reasonable. Windows offers a 10 year window of transition between Windows 8.1 to 10, while getting security updates all at the same time.

In 2005, the speech Steve Jobs gave implied that the transition is similar to 68K to PPC, because he did mention a pipeline of PPC products during the transitional period much like what the old Apple did before Steve came back to run it. Well, how long did the transition last? 2 years exactly, but how long did the PPC products support lasted? 2 years exactly ending with Snow Leopard, as opposed to roughly 9 with Classic OS to Mac OSX.

When Steve gave that speech about the PPC pipeline, he knew we are going to "IMPLY" what he said in the context of the 68k to PPC transition, and that was there would be simultaneous support between 2 platforms as long as the need arises just like the 68k to PPC transition.

And not too long ago when Tim Cook said this..

"New Macs with Intel chips are still "in the pipeline" and the company is planning to support Intel-based MacOS computers for "years," despite announcing Arm-based Apple silicon."

Notice how they love to use the word "Pipeline" again. Tim said it; Steve said it. It's almost like a religion.

When you combined both the words "pipeline" and "transition" and "support", it implies that they are going to support cross compatibility. In Apple's dictionary; it seemed that pipeline word has a support length of just 2 years.

Perhaps 2 years transition is very reasonable to many of you, but it's understandable when Windows 10 offer 10 years of compatibility and when people realize this, is it a shock not to see people get angry when one company offer better legacy support than another? Very understandable.

Apple has a history of getting people "angry" with the battery gate and then the latest with the iPhone 13 screen replacement where only Apple can do it without disabling face ID.

 

[powerslave65]

If you have decent internet access and use Icloud you really don't even have to back much up.

 

[triptolemus]

Fool me "once" shame on me; fool me twice shame on you!

You've got that backwards...

 

[KeniLF]

Finally, after 15 years of Mac, I have admitted defeat and realised that the reasons that I moved to Apple from Microsoft all those years ago, are no longer true. One of my main reasons was, the almost constant upgrades that Microsoft kept forcing on me, but now I find that Apple are doing the same. The other reason was the buggy nature of the upgrades that microsoft introduced causing frequent and often not easily solved issues. Now I find Apple all too frequently doing the same. The latest lovely little glitch to hit me is after ”upgrading” to Monterey, none of my three printers will work, and none of them have “monterey” drivers available. I have now bitten the bullet and purchased a Windows 10 machine so that I can at least print things out (all three printers are working fine in Windows 10). I am a straightforward user, I have zero interest in geekery or digging into the depths of the OS, I just want a reliable machine that works, day in, day out. I’m not even getting into the 32bit v 64bit thing and how that’s devastated my gaming options. The blunt fact is that the premium that I was happy to pay for my Apple iMac is no longer worth it. So after 15 years, I’m back with Microsoft. Poor Mr Jobs must be revolving at a very high speed. Whoever the current CEO of Apple is, he needs to ask himself some very hard searching questions, and the rest of us had better pray that he never moves into manufacturing aircraft.

Good luck - truly. You will definitely need it if you believe that you won't hit a similar roadblock with Windows at some point. Please do look into backups and how to create boot disks on USB.

I've been [re]building my home theater Windows PC for two decades and Microsoft often drove me to drink until I became solid in creating and executing my full system restore strategy for Windows.

 

[AZhappyjack]

If you are to study Apple's history, you will know that Apple went through several transitions.

When Apple did the "transition" from 68k to PowerPC and from Classic Mac OS to Mac OSX, it took roughly 9 years to complete. They abandoned the "Classic" compatibility starting with OSX Leopard (10.5). Tiger was the last that offered Classic compatibility. Also, during the transition period from 68K to PPC, they had a built-in 68K emulator in classic OS starting from 7 much like what we are seeing now with Rosetta 1 (PPC to Intel) and Rosetta 2 (Intel to ARM). That compatibility was offered for a few years, plus when Apple transitioned from their proprietary ports such as ADB to a more standardized USB interface, 3rd party companies such as Griffin Technologies, Rose technologies and so forth produced dongles to ensure that older peripherals were still supported so your older non-USB type printers don't all of a sudden become obsolete.

I remembered this because that was how I transitioned from 68K with the Mac Plus, to Mac IIsi then to PowerMac 7100, 7600, G3, G4 and G5 and all of this was a "gradual" transition. We are offered choices.

9 years transition is reasonable. Windows offers a 10 year window of transition between Windows 8.1 to 10, while getting security updates at the same time.

In 2005, the speech Steve Jobs gave implied that the transition is similar to 68K to PPC, because he did mention a pipeline of PPC products during the transitional period much like what the old Apple did before Steve came back to run it. Well, how long did the transition last? 2 years exactly, but how long did the PPC products support lasted? 2 years exactly ending with Snow Leopard, as opposed to roughly 9 with Classic OS to Mac OSX.

When Steve gave that speech about the PPC pipeline, he knew we are going to "IMPLY" what he said in the context of the 68k to PPC transition, and that was there would be simultaneous support between 2 platforms as long as the need arises just like the 68k to PPC transition.

And not too long ago when Tim Cook said this..

"New Macs with Intel chips are still "in the pipeline" and the company is planning to support Intel-based MacOS computers for "years," despite announcing Arm-based Apple silicon."

Fool me "once" shame on me; fool me twice shame on you!

One must understand the meaning of "support". It means that Apple will not turn its back on Intel devices still under warranty, and will continue to support Intel-based software for bugs and security fixes. It does NOT mean that they will continue to manufacture Intel-based computers forever.

A nine-year transition to anything is painfully long and slow. Do you expect Apple to continue manufacturing both Intel and Apple silicon-based computers (and creating versions of macOS for both) for NINE years? Absolutely unreasonable. Especially when Jobs stated "transition in the next two years".

And the expression you're trying to quote is:

Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on ME.

Unless you are looking to blame someone else for your choices/actions.

 

[Bandaman]

There's no reason you can't use both. I will eternally forever use Mac laptops from now on. For Windows it will always be a desktop for gaming so I can keep it whisper quiet with liquid cooling. I cannot stand using Dyson vacuum sounding gaming laptops anymore after enjoying this M1 laptop.

 

[bradl]

If you are to study Apple's history, you will know that Apple went through several transitions.

When Apple did the "transition" from 68k to PowerPC and from Classic Mac OS to Mac OSX, it took roughly 9 years to complete. They abandoned the "Classic" compatibility starting with OSX Leopard (10.5). Tiger was the last that offered Classic compatibility. Also, during the transition period from 68K to PPC, they had a built-in 68K emulator in classic OS starting from 7 much like what we are seeing now with Rosetta 1 (PPC to Intel) and Rosetta 2 (Intel to ARM). That compatibility was offered for a few years, plus when Apple transitioned from their proprietary ports such as ADB to a more standardized USB interface, 3rd party companies such as Griffin Technologies, Rose technologies and so forth produced dongles to ensure that older peripherals were still supported so your older non-USB type printers don't all of a sudden become obsolete.

I remembered this because that was how I transitioned from 68K with the Mac Plus, to Mac IIsi then to PowerMac 7100, 7600, G3, G4 and G5 and all of this was a "gradual" transition. We are offered choices.

9 years transition is reasonable. Windows offers a 10 year window of transition between Windows 8.1 to 10, while getting security updates all at the same time.

In 2005, the speech Steve Jobs gave implied that the transition is similar to 68K to PPC, because he did mention a pipeline of PPC products during the transitional period much like what the old Apple did before Steve came back to run it. Well, how long did the transition last? 2 years exactly, but how long did the PPC products support lasted? 2 years exactly ending with Snow Leopard, as opposed to roughly 9 with Classic OS to Mac OSX.

When Steve gave that speech about the PPC pipeline, he knew we are going to "IMPLY" what he said in the context of the 68k to PPC transition, and that was there would be simultaneous support between 2 platforms as long as the need arises just like the 68k to PPC transition.

And not too long ago when Tim Cook said this..

"New Macs with Intel chips are still "in the pipeline" and the company is planning to support Intel-based MacOS computers for "years," despite announcing Arm-based Apple silicon."

Notice how they love to use the word "Pipeline" again. Tim said it; Steve said it. It's almost like a religion.

When you combined both the words "pipeline" and "transition" and "support", it implies that they are going to support cross compatibility. In Apple's dictionary; it seemed that pipeline word has a support length of just 2 years.

Perhaps 2 years transition is very reasonable to many of you, but it's understandable when Windows 10 offer 10 years of compatibility and when people realize this, is it a shock not to see people get angry when one company offer better legacy support than another? Very understandable.

Apple has a history of getting people "angry" with the battery gate and then the latest with the iPhone 13 screen replacement where only Apple can do it without disabling face ID.

Not for nothing...

... but there was absolutely no transition at all from Apple DOS and ProDOS to 68k. There was effectively no transition period after the Apple II line ceased with the IIgs.

BL.

 

[iluvmacs99]

Not for nothing...

... but there was absolutely no transition at all from Apple DOS and ProDOS to 68k. There was effectively no transition period after the Apple II line ceased with the IIgs.

BL.

There was no obligation to, but that's half of it.

Apple DOS and ProDOS, Amiga, Atari, Commodore 64, Ti 99, Tandy and Sinclair machines all do not offer any transitional services, because they were not necessary. The market then offered no clear winners, so it was accepted that when you transition from Apple to Amiga or Apple to Atari or Apple II to Mac, you start from scratch with software. However, Apple did offer a transitional service for Apple II to Mac for their educational program. They have a built-in Apple II SOC on an expansion card where you can run Apple software on a 68K MAC. The Apple IIGS also has this built-in Apple II SOC that offers full Apple II compatibility. So then, you're somewhat incorrect in your assertion that Apple did not offer Apple II to Mac transition or Apple II to IIGS transition.

Apple IIe Card: Using an Apple IIe Emulator Card in your 68k Macintosh – David and Steve's Blog

But by early 90s, we start to see clear winners which are the PC and Mac. It was clear that IBM PC offered legacy support, because they stuck with the x86 chip. So Apple had to offer some kind of transition service, because it's Apple that's transitioning from 68k to PPC and not the PC and it is Apple that's starting from scratch with PPC if they didn't offer a 68k emulator. So it would be more disadvantageous for Apple not to offer transitional services than it would be during the 8/16bit era.

 

[44267547]

One must understand the meaning of "support". It means that Apple will not turn their back on Intel devices still under warranty, and will continue to support Intel-based software for bugs and security fixes. It does NOT mean that they will continue to manufacture Intel-based computers forever.

A nine-year transition to anything is painfully long and slow. Do you expect Apple to continue manufacturing both Intel and Apple silicon-based computers (and creating versions of macOS for both) for NINE years? Absolutely unreasonable. Especially when Jobs stated "transition in the next two years".

And the expression you're trying to quote is:

Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on ME.

Unless you are looking to blame someone else for your choices/actions.

I suspect your first sentence of your post fairly summarizes the OP’s misunderstanding overall of longevity. (As well others.)

Also, I didn’t understand the whole ‘Fool me once part of your post…’, until I realized ‘iluvmacs99’ edited their post and removed his mis-quote/error altogether from the original posting. Which, made it generally confusing not knowing what that meant.

 

[iluvmacs99]

One must understand the meaning of "support". It means that Apple will not turn its back on Intel devices still under warranty, and will continue to support Intel-based software for bugs and security fixes. It does NOT mean that they will continue to manufacture Intel-based computers forever.

A nine-year transition to anything is painfully long and slow. Do you expect Apple to continue manufacturing both Intel and Apple silicon-based computers (and creating versions of macOS for both) for NINE years? Absolutely unreasonable. Especially when Jobs stated "transition in the next two years".

And the expression you're trying to quote is:

Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on ME.

Unless you are looking to blame someone else for your choices/actions.

Last I checked, the current Mac Pro is based on an "Intel Platform". That's not a cheap machine by any metrics, but can become obsolete in just 2 years. Oh wait; it's already obsolete!

 

[AZhappyjack]

Last I checked, the current Mac Pro is based on an "Intel Platform". That's not a cheap machine by any metrics, but can become obsolete in just 2 years. Oh wait; it's already obsolete!

Obsolete? Says who?

obsolete (adjective)
• no longer in general use; fallen into disuse
• of a discarded or outmoded type; out of date

There is no newer Mac Pro... and it will continue to run for years... and it may well get new versions of macOS for a couple more years... it will definitely continue to get bug fixes and security updates longer than that...

 

[TiggrToo]

Last I checked, the current Mac Pro is based on an "Intel Platform". That's not a cheap machine by any metrics, but can become obsolete in just 2 years. Oh wait; it's already obsolete!

The Mac Pro is far far far from Obselete. Apple still support it in both hardware and software.

You’ve a twisted definition of the word there…

 

[Wanted797]

mojave seems to like our aged laptops
High Sierra hated my MacBook air while Mojave is more fluid.

I can’t get Mojave.

 

[AZhappyjack]

The Mac Pro is far far far from Obselete. Apple still support it in both hardware and software.

You’ve a twisted definition of the word there…

If you've followed his posts, he keep moving the goalposts...

 

[Wanted797]

When your fan goes crazy open the activity monitor app. Look at the CPU tab. Most likely there's a badly coded electron app such as Skype causing it. Skype makes my Mac go ballistic on every Skype upgrade. On the About Skype you can make the upgrade succeed.

Anyhow it's not your Mac. It's an app. Force quit it and watch your fan go down.

I know I don’t use skyp but I’ll check.

It’s seems random. I can be watching YouTube with Temps around 70c fan barely auditable.

Next minute it’s pushing 90c and sounds like a jet.

 

[iluvmacs99]

The Mac Pro is far far far from Obselete. Apple still support it in both hardware and software.

You’ve a twisted definition of the word there…

All Monterey features that are M1 based are not available on Intel machines. Mac Pro is Intel based. Perhaps I may be wrong here, but are you suggesting that only the Mac Pro gets the same features as on the M1 but not all other Intel machine even if you bought it today on the Mac refurb store with Monterey?

 

[TiggrToo]

All Monterey features that are M1 based are not available on Intel machines. Mac Pro is Intel based. Perhaps I may be wrong here, but are you suggesting that only the Mac Pro gets the same features as on the M1 but not all other Intel machine even if you bought it today on the Mac refurb store with Monterey?

My iPhone 7plus doesn’t get all the features that the new iPhone 13 does.

My iPhone 7 is not obselete either. It’s still supported by Apple.

Your argument doesn’t hold water.

 

[MBAir2010]

I can’t get Mojave.

your MacBook should be able to.
if not there is a patch and can install on a unsupportive MacBook.
if not for that patch, i would not be typing here on this thread.
the process is easy, kinda time consuming, BUT well worth the efforts!
just the screensaver is worth the OSX!

 

[iluvmacs99]

My iPhone 7plus doesn’t get all the features that the new iPhone 13 does.

My iPhone 7 is not obselete either. It’s still supported by Apple.

Your argument doesn’t hold water.

Now we’re moving the goal post into iPhones, when someone said I’m moving.

 

[TiggrToo]

Now we’re moving the goal post into iPhones, when someone said I’m moving.

No, I responded to your post where you claimed the Mac Pro’s could be classed as obsolete because they don’t get features that the M1 Macs do.

I simply gave an example of how wrong you were.

OK, I’ll give you another one: my work Mac Book Pro 2019 doesn’t have some features my 2020 M1 MacBook Air has.

Is my 2019 Pro (which will be upgraded to Montery before the end of the year) now “obsolete”?

OK - Kept it to computers. Happy now?