Goodbye

[iluvmacs99]

I can emphatize somewhat with the OP, because when Steve Jobs promised that he won't abandon PowerPC users when Apple transitioned to Intel, I trusted him. A few OS updates later, they dropped support on Rosetta and I was angry. I was angry at Steve for breaking that promise, but truly I was angry at myself for being naive as an Apple loyal fan, because I thought they would have cared about us who had paid so much in owning those legacy software and hardware. The thought that I have to "re-purchase" by paying those upgrade fees and throwing away perfectly working scanners, printers and other accessories is the game these companies want me to play so as to continue making profits year over year.

I did switch to Windows for my transition from PowerPC to Intel for a while, before I added the Macs back a few years later because of the work I was doing then demand me to use them with the emerging digital media market. Today, I own all 3; Apple, Windows and Linux and I am totally agnostic. I agree with the OP somewhat that Windows 10 had kept compatibility with legacy software and hardware much longer than what PowerPC had done for me in the past. I still own a professional video enhancing software that was written in 2010 that was designed to enhance 1080p digital video for broadcast quality and at the time, you need at least a $6000 machine with the latest GPU to do any meaningful work. Fast forward to 2020, which is 10 years afterwards, the software still works perfectly on my current Windows 10 gaming machine with a current Nvidia GPU and now I could enhance 1080p video and stabilize the video just like if you are shooting with a Stead Cam in just a matter of minutes!! While the company that made that software is now defunct, I could still use it today in 2021 without needing to upgrade the software in Windows 10. It works perfectly as it was made 11 years ago today, but much faster with faster modern hardware.

Nothing on my Apple collection can do this. I'm limited to using Mojave and below to keep 32bit compatibility with my older software. I still have 2 PowerBooks which I still use today to run the older software I had paid for. Why upgrade those software to their modern equivalents when I can still use them on older machines today? With FTP, I can upload my finish work from those PowerBooks into my iPhone and then sync them directly with Google Drive. And if I want to print what I had created with my PowerBooks, I simply print them to a PDF file, sync the files to my iPhone and AirPrint them to my color inkjet or older laser.

 

[iluvmacs99]

Apple doesn't force updates just uncheck the box that says auto update

Well, Apple does force us to upgrade to keep up with security updates the same way Windows 10 and 11 does to Windows users. I stayed with Mojave by choice to keep 32bit compatibility, but I no longer receive security updates from Apple. So in a way, Apple is passively forcing us to keep up with the security updates by forcing us to upgrade to the newer OS. Apple does not release extended security updates like what Linux and Windows 10 are doing. For example, I run both Ubuntu 18 and 20, with Ubuntu 18 having security updates till 2028 and Ubuntu 20 till 2030. Windows 10 will have security updates till 2025 and my Windows 8.1 updates till 2023. I am not "forced" to upgrade to a new OS with both Windows and Linux to continue receiving the latest security updates. I do with OSX, because they only support an OS for 3 years, as opposed to 10 years with Windows 10 and more than 10 years with Ubuntu!

Incidentally, Windows 10 had kept its framework pretty much the same when it was introduced in 2015. The software I paid in 2010 still works today in 2021 in Windows 10. The Mac software I paid in 2010 that is 32bit compatible will not work pass Mojave. So in a way, Apple "does" force us to update our software in order to be compatible with Monterey and recently the M1 if you don't want to run under Rosetta 2.

 

[AZhappyjack]

I can emphatize somewhat with the OP, because when Steve Jobs promised that he won't abandon PowerPC users when Apple transitioned to Intel, I trusted him. A few OS updates later, they dropped support on Rosetta and I was angry. I was angry at Steve for breaking that promise, but truly I was angry at myself for being naive as an Apple loyal fan, because I thought they would have cared about us who had paid so much in owning those legacy software and hardware. The thought that I have to "re-purchase" by paying those upgrade fees and throwing away perfectly working scanners, printers and other accessories is the game these companies want me to play so as to continue making profits year over year.

I did switch to Windows for my transition from PowerPC to Intel for a while, before I added the Macs back a few years later because of the work I was doing then demand me to use them with the emerging digital media market. Today, I own all 3; Apple, Windows and Linux and I am totally agnostic. I agree with the OP somewhat that Windows 10 had kept compatibility with legacy software and hardware much longer than what PowerPC had done for me in the past. I still own a professional video enhancing software that was written in 2010 that was designed to enhance 1080p digital video for broadcast quality and at the time, you need at least a $6000 machine with the latest GPU to do any meaningful work. Fast forward to 2020, which is 10 years afterwards, the software still works perfectly on my current Windows 10 gaming machine with a current Nvidia GPU and now I could enhance 1080p video and stabilize the video just like if you are shooting with a Stead Cam in just a matter of minutes!! While the company that made that software is now defunct, I could still use it today in 2021 without needing to upgrade the software in Windows 10. It works perfectly as it was made 11 years ago today, but much faster with faster modern hardware.

Nothing on my Apple collection can do this. I'm limited to using Mojave and below to keep 32bit compatibility with my older software. I still have 2 PowerBooks which I still use today to run the older software I had paid for. Why upgrade those software to their modern equivalents when I can still use them on older machines today? With FTP, I can upload my finish work from those PowerBooks into my iPhone and then sync them directly with Google Drive. And if I want to print what I had created with my PowerBooks, I simply print them to a PDF file, sync the files to my iPhone and AirPrint them to my color inkjet or older laser.

I'd love to see a quote from Jobs saying that Apple would never abandon PowerPC... technology changes... and part fo the blame goes to the developers who created the 32-bit apps but refuse to keep up with the modern world...

Tell me, who's still using magnetic tape for data storage? what about the 8" floppy discs? C'mon, man.

It's great that you can still be productive with older technology - there's too much "planned obsolescence" these days, but it is what it is. Was there this much clamor when 8-bit computing gave way to 16-bit? Now the world has abandoned 32-bit computing for the most part, but it's all an evolutionary process.

And as you have chosen NOT to upgrade to the latest and greatest, the OP chose a different route... and rather than ask for help getting back, he simply stopped his little feet and left. His choice to make, and his choice to live with.

 

[AZhappyjack]

Well, Apple does force us to upgrade to keep up with security updates the same way Windows 10 and 11 does to Windows users. I stayed with Mojave by choice to keep 32bit compatibility, but I no longer receive security updates from Apple. So in a way, Apple is passively forcing us to keep up with the security updates by forcing us to upgrade to the newer OS. Apple does not release extended security updates like what Linux and Windows 10 are doing. For example, I run both Ubuntu 18 and 20, with Ubuntu 18 having security updates till 2028 and Ubuntu 20 till 2030. Windows 10 will have security updates till 2025 and my Windows 8.1 updates till 2023. I am not "forced" to upgrade to a new OS with both Windows and Linux. I do with OSX, because they only support an OS for 3 years, as opposed to 10 years with Windows 10 and more than 10 years with Linux!

Incidentally, Windows 10 had kept its framework pretty much the same when it was introduced in 2015. The software I paid in 2010 still works today in 2021 in Windows 10. The Mac software I paid in 2010 that is 32bit compatible will not work pass Mojave. So in a way, Apple "does" force us to update our software in order to be compatible with Monterey and recently the M1 if you don't want to run under Rosetta 2.

No one is forcing anything. If you want to upgrade, do so... otherwise, keep running what you have and be as productive as you can be. I'm thankful that I can push a button to start my car and not have to get out and turn a crank like great-granddaddy did.

 

[turbineseaplane]

I still have 2 PowerBooks which I still use today to run the older software I had paid for. Why upgrade those software to their modern equivalents when I can still use them on older machines today?

There is no good reason at all and you're smart to keep this up.

Unfortunately too much of society has just moved to a "dispose whatever isn't brand new and buy all in on new" mentality. That can have upsides, but so much is lost and so much keeps needing to be recreated.

Along the way, it does enrich the companies who just crank out the new hotness with little regard for anything before. I will admit that.

 

[millerj123]

Totally agree.
Everyone trying to micro analyze the intentions of the poster - just don't.
Simply move along and don't worry about the topic if it's not your cup of tea.

The pile on nature of some threads is really off putting

Nah, totally valid to wonder what the OP thinks they are going to get out of this. Really, why join a fan site to announce that you are leaving? Makes no sense. And since we can all have an opinion, I think it's a wasteland worthy thread.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Really, why join a fan site to announce that you are leaving? Makes no sense.

To share an opinion.

I've been told many times by moderators not to get into worrying about intentions in this way or when someone joined and how it may relate to the validity of a post.

Those things need to be separated.

Disagree with a poster on the merits of what they say, not inferences or speculation on intentions.

No rules are being violated here.
Not everyone must conform to x,y,z to make their opinions worthy of sharing or discussing

 

[egodspeed]

Good riddance. I like these posts. Maybe the wait times for iPhones and MacBooks will start dropping now. 🤪

 

[turbineseaplane]

If if the OP were a 10 year member and active participant, you guys would all be bashing him/her and Windows the decision anyways.

It's hilarious to see people pretending the age of the posters account means anything.

We've all been on this forum long enough to know how it goes here.

Anything too far towards knocking Apple gets strongly derided, whether coming from a 12 year member or a 12 day member.

I've encountered this -- personally -- several times, and I've been here since 2003 on my first account (lost access way back when) and my current account since 2008.

 

[millerj123]

To share an opinion.

I've been told many times by moderators not to get into worrying about intentions in this way or when someone joined and how it may relate to the validity of a post.

Those things need to be separated.

Disagree with a poster on the merits of what they say, not inferences or speculation on intentions.

No rules are being violated here.
Not everyone must conform to x,y,z to make their opinions worthy of sharing or discussing

And, I'm going to stand firmly on the other side, questioning motive and the point of the thread. "forcing updates" is a &$( reason to leave, but more power to the OP.

 

[turbineseaplane]

but more power to the OP.

That's the proper response, thank you

 

[millerj123]

That's the proper response, thank you

No, the entirety of my response is my proper response, but thank _you_

I could add "...don't let the door hit ya!"

 

[turbineseaplane]

I could add "...don't let the door hit ya!"

But that would be childish, so I'm glad you didn't

Have a nice weekend

 

[millerj123]

But that would be childish, so I'm glad you didn't

Have a nice weekend

For someone stuck on being nice, this seems not nice.

 

[iluvmacs99]

I'd love to see a quote from Jobs saying that Apple would never abandon PowerPC... technology changes... and part fo the blame goes to the developers who created the 32-bit apps but refuse to keep up with the modern world...

Tell me, who's still using magnetic tape for data storage? what about the 8" floppy discs? C'mon, man.

It's great that you can still be productive with older technology - there's too much "planned obsolescence" these days, but it is what it is. Was there this much clamor when 8-bit computing gave way to 16-bit? Now the world has abandoned 32-bit computing for the most part, but it's all an evolutionary process.

And as you have chosen NOT to upgrade to the latest and greatest, the OP chose a different route... and rather than ask for help getting back, he simply stopped his little feet and left. His choice to make, and his choice to live with.

When someone is single and non-committed in any relationship, having a one night stand and walking away from that relationship to go for someone newer is easy, because there is so much flexibility and freedom on the person's part. They say, there's no string attached, no obligation to answer to.

When someone is committed and married into any relationship and then they have kids, walking away from that relationship isn't easy, because there isn't so much of the flexibility and freedom compared to being single. You have an obligation to the marriage and to your kids that you don't have being single. You can go for someone newer, fresher, but there are consequences in doing that.

Owning a computer is the same way. Hardware accessories and software are your wife and kids. Some people can easily move on to something newer, because they have no single commitment to their hardware and software. It's like being single. I can meet someone new, have a fling, got bored and then just simply move on to something fresher. Many people see their relationship with their computers this way and prefer to have this type of relationship.

But there are people who see their relationship with computers like a marriage with kids. People buy a computer to invest in the software and data they will keep using, not just for 1 year or less, but for a long period of time. I had worked with some clients in the past on contract for BIG CORPORATIONS and even some government agencies that are still using Windows XP and Mac OS 9 and Tiger/Leopard to run their database and accounting software. They are still using floppies and Zip drives, and a few are still using tape drives! Their usage is similar like marriage, because it is "data" that kept them tied to old hardware. It is work I had created with legacy software and hardware that are difficult to convert to the newer system that kept me tied to using older hardware.

People do not realize that many of us don't just buy a computer to have a fling, because it is new. When you play games on the computer, your obligation to the computer and its data is little. You can afford to lose that data, because you are not obligated to keep that data for someone else, but you. But if you buy a computer for work related and the database and its data are worth something, then there is that obligation to keep and maintain that data on behalf of someone. Same like having kids; you can't just easily walk away and leave your kids homeless and hungry and cold as you would with having no kids at all.

Some of us had invested time, training and data that we put into using the software. It's a marriage and it's not like you can just stand up, move on and leave that behind in a flash. A few can, but I know that even big corporations can not upgrade all their computers to the latest. Some don't for the very reasons like what happens to a marriage ending in a divorce. It's expensive and it's messy.
A lot of companies that I worked with to maintain their legacy system all told me that it's much cheaper to maintain these systems so they can retrieve the data they have on their clients and not force their workers to switch to newer systems and be retrained to use newer software and convert the legacy data.

Like a marriage with kids; sooner or later the kids will leave and your obligation to them ends then. When my clients need end with what I can offer, then I'll move on to something newer. Same with the corporations that I had worked for in the past. When their obligations to the clients end, when they die, will their obligation to maintain their legacy systems end.

 

[AZhappyjack]

When someone is single and non-committed in any relationship, having a one night stand and walking away from that relationship to go for someone newer is easy, because there is so much flexibility and freedom on the person's part. They say, there's no string attached, no obligation to answer to.

When someone is committed and married into any relationship and then they have kids, walking away from that relationship isn't easy, because there isn't so much of the flexibility and freedom compared to being single. You have an obligation to the marriage and to your kids that you don't have being single. You can go for someone newer, fresher, but there are consequences in doing that.

Owning a computer is the same way. Hardware accessories and software are your wife and kids. Some people can easily move on to something newer, because they have no single commitment to their hardware and software. It's like being single. I can meet someone new, have a fling, got bored and then just simply move on to something fresher. Many people see their relationship with their computers this way and prefer to have this type of relationship.

But there are people who see their relationship with computers like a marriage with kids. People buy a computer to invest in the software and data they will keep using, not just for 1 year or less, but for a long period of time. I had worked with some clients in the past on contract for BIG CORPORATIONS and even some government agencies that are still using Windows XP and Mac OS 9 and Tiger/Leopard to run their database and accounting software. They are still using floppies and Zip drives, and a few are still using tape drives! Their usage is similar like marriage, because it is "data" that kept them tied to old hardware. It is work I had created with legacy software and hardware that are difficult to convert to the newer system that kept me tied to using older hardware.

People do not realize that many of us don't just buy a computer to have a fling, because it is new. When you play games on the computer, your obligation to the computer and its data is little. You can afford to lose that data, because you are not obligated to keep that data for someone else, but you. But if you buy a computer for work related and the database and its data are worth something, then there is that obligation to keep and maintain that data on behalf of someone. Same like having kids; you can't just easily walk away and leave your kids homeless and hungry and cold as you would with having no kids at all.

Some of us had invested time, training and data that we put into using the software. It's a marriage and it's not like you can just stand up, move on and leave that behind in a flash. A few can, but I know that even big corporations can not upgrade all their computers to the latest. Some don't for the very reasons like what happens to a marriage ending in a divorce. It's expensive and it's messy.
A lot of companies that I worked with to maintain their legacy system all told me that it's much cheaper to maintain these systems so they can retrieve the data they have on their clients and not force their workers to switch to newer systems and be retrained to use newer software and convert the legacy data.

Like a marriage with kids; sooner or later the kids will leave and your obligation to them ends then. When my clients need end with what I can offer, then I'll move on to something newer. Same with the corporations that I had worked for in the past. When their obligations to the clients end, when they die, will their obligation to maintain their legacy systems end.

I get it... we live in a disposable society. On way too many levels. But there is good and bad in it all. Blame Apple. Blame intel. Blame software developers. Again, the whole 32-bit argument wouldn't exist if the developers got off their lazy @$$e$ and updated their code, even for the cost of an upgrade. But don't blame Apple because a third party developer didn't come along for the ride.

Now, I'm still waiting for you to provide the source for the comment attributed to Jobs. NOTHING is forever. Period. Situations evolve. Change happens.

 

[djcerla]

I’m still on Mojave on my iMac exactly for sw compatibility reasons. No problem whatsoever… there’s no need to rush to updates.

 

[iluvmacs99]

I get it... we live in a disposable society. On way too many levels. But there is good and bad in it all. Blame Apple. Blame intel. Blame software developers. Again, the whole 32-bit argument wouldn't exist if the developers got off their lazy @$$e$ and updated their code, even for the cost of an upgrade. But don't blame Apple because a third party developer didn't come along for the ride.

Now, I'm still waiting for you to provide the source for the comment attributed to Jobs. NOTHING is forever. Period. Situations evolve. Change happens.

His Quote from the 2005 WWDC keynote live..

"And we’ll continue to be bold and begin a third transition today … to make the best machines we know how to make in the future. This transition isn’t going to happen overnight. We’re making awesome machines now, we’ve got a lot of great PowerPC products in the pipeline, but we are also working to design some Intel-based Macs, and when we’re here next year we will have them in the marketplace. And there will be a transition in the next two years. We’re getting ready."

Really Steve? As I recall, there was nothing else in the so called a lot of great PPC products in the pipeline other than the Intel machines after the announcement and the transition did happen almost overnight. They dropped Rosetta after Snow Leopard. He was a great showman btw.

 

[Flight Plan]

But that would be childish, so I'm glad you didn't

No it wouldn't! Especially not if the door tends to hit people in the @ss on their way out, maybe making them stumble or fall. It's just good advice as far as I'm concerned!

 

[AZhappyjack]

His Quote from the 2005 WWDC keynote live..

"And we’ll continue to be bold and begin a third transition today … to make the best machines we know how to make in the future. This transition isn’t going to happen overnight. We’re making awesome machines now, we’ve got a lot of great PowerPC products in the pipeline, but we are also working to design some Intel-based Macs, and when we’re here next year we will have them in the marketplace. And there will be a transition in the next two years. We’re getting ready."

Really Steve? As I recall, there was nothing else in the so called a lot of great PPC products in the pipeline other than the Intel machines after the announcement and the transition did happen almost overnight. They dropped Rosetta after Snow Leopard. He was a great showman btw.

So, he never said said that he would not ever abandon PowerPC... it's called evolution...

 

[ericwn]

I obviously need to apologise to all. I stupidly assumed that a quality manufacturer of any product who offered upgrades would have made suffiencent checks so that the customer could proceed with expectations of success. Obviously not true. My fault entirely should have checked the printers, keyboards, electrical supply, wiring, power sockets etc. Still no worries, I’ll just bash on with windows (which seem strangely enough to “just work”) Ah well, lesson learnt!

Never too late to learn your responsibilities as a user, it might save you from disappointment when the next upgrade on whatever platform causes some of your accessories to stop working.

 

[Flight Plan]

.... We’re making awesome machines now, we’ve got a lot of great PowerPC products in the pipeline, but we are also working to design some Intel-based Macs, and when we’re here next year we will have them in the marketplace. And there will be a transition in the next two years. We’re getting ready."

I've highlighted and underscored the key part in red.

Slightly rephrased: "Next year we'll be selling them (Intel-based Macs), and then transitioning to them in two years".

You can't read the first part all by itself and ignore the second part.

Or like when two companies merge, and they assure the employees, "We're not planning on any layoffs". Well, not "right now", that is. To take these kinds of comments at their face value is just setting one's self up for disappointment down the line.

Take my example, hehe, for example:

They may not be planning on layoffs NOW, but whenever you merge two companies, you ALWAYS end up with duplication. Duplication MUST be eliminated by having some employees do other things (or leave), because if you don't do that, it won't make you more competitive. And for that matter, why even bother with a merger if you're not going to streamline the new/bigger company?

 

[iluvmacs99]

So, he never said said that he would not ever abandon PowerPC... it's called evolution...

He did..

Here's a business meaning of "pipeline"

In business, a "pipeline" is a source where products and services flow into a said business or company out to an eventual customer. What's in the "pipeline" could simply be anything from information, to processes, to services, or actual products.

He was communicating to the business community, to us. That's why he added the pipeline wording, so dealers and Apple wouldn't be stuck with existing PPC machines and products if he would not appease us.

 

[powerslave65]

I have been using Macs since 1993 and trust you missed all the glory days of how bad Macs could be. Today's Mac is magic compared to the 90's.

 

[ericwn]

After 15 years I would’ve thought you’d learned your lesson never to install a brand new OS. What you’re experiencing is typical launch day bugs.
On the Mac especially, it’s best to stay one year behind the upgrade curve.

I wish there was a place where one could interact with others prior to installing things, or at least a place where I could look up the compatibility of my devices or otherwise educate myself on how to use my tools!