Goodbye

[grandM]

For what ever reason, I've had really good luck with windows regarding my printers and scanners - a lot better then I've had with macOS. I have an old Epson scanner, and I don't think I have much of anything in support for macos but it works well in windows. I have an old mp490 canon printer that I still works. I was tempted to replace it, since its quite old but since I rarely print, why bother ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Wasn't Epson once a preferred apple peripheral company?

 

[maflynn]

Wasn't Epson once a preferred apple peripheral company?

I'm not sure, but I got my canon from Apple and I was surprised at how quickly I ran into issues trying to get drivers.

 

[AZhappyjack]

8 pages of people being mad that someone decided to use a forum the way it was intended: to talk about their experiences and let others respond with their on topic experiences too. At least the OP had the foresight to place this thread in the "Alternatives to Mac" sub forum.

We don't need 100 replies letting him know you still like macOS, we know, there are threads to post your positive experiences and love for the OS but this is not one of them. If you think the OP post was pointless then I'm sorry to tell you that your snarky responses are just as pointless if not baffling given you bothered to reply in the first place -- not to mention off topic in essence IMO. Can someone explain why we never see an equal number of "You didn't have to tell us" posts in threads from raving new macOS converts? You don't have to take it personally when someone doesn't like the same OS as you or has problems with it.

The OP post wasn't even asking for advice on fixing the issue, he's talking about the poor quality of software Apple are publishing these days and the methods they use to force you to upgrade OS version. I happen to agree with him on that. "You don't have to upgrade OS" is such a flippant statement because it's another way of saying "You don't have to get new security upgrades or the latest features of the device you paid for." After a while the option to not upgrade becomes very difficult when the software you paid for (in particular the stuff on the Mac App Store) is no longer compatible with your version of OS, this is especially the case with software subscriptions that drop support for older versions (just look at what 1Password is doing).

The mods moved this to the "alternatives" forum. The OP had no "foresight". He just came here to vent.

In your opinion, the post was pointless, the responses were pointless, but you had to post to make us all aware of that. Thanks. I feel better now.

And the real issue is that after 15 years of using Mac OS, OS X and macOS, he still didn't bother to do any investigation before pushing the UPGRADE button. He didn't bother to create a backup of his valuable data ... and then created an account, started a new thread and posted a total of 6 times about how Apple screwed him over, then he disappeared.

Apple is not perfect. It's done some pretty stupid things in its history. But this was a self-inflicted problem for which there are still several remedies... but all the OP was after was an opportunity to complain and blame Apple for HIS mistake. I have NOT upgraded to Monterey - still on Big Sur... and I've gotten several security updates for my version of macOS AFTER the release of Monterey... so yeah, the OP did NOT have to upgrade. And since the macOS updates are free, what exactly are the "latest features ... [he] paid for"?

Any app issues are in the purview of the app developer. If he had app XYZ running on his pre-update version of macOS, he got exactly what he paid for. Even if the developer added new features and made the update only compatible with Monterey, the OP had all of the bells, whistles and functionality that he paid for when he bought the app. I don't get your point here. Again, his action of pushing the upgrade button would have created all of these problems that you are imagining on his behalf.

Glad you have the courage to take up his fight... but this one was totally on him.

 

[ericwn]

"why did you have to tell us!?!??!"

"wow you're a fool!"

"why did you upgrade OS version?"

"you should have just made a backup, idiot!"

8 pages of people being mad that someone decided to use a forum the way it was intended: to talk about their experiences and let others respond with their on topic experiences too. At least the OP had the foresight to place this thread in the "Alternatives to Mac" sub forum.

We don't need 100 replies letting him know you still like macOS, we know, there are threads to post your positive experiences and love for the OS but this is not one of them. If you think the OP post was pointless then I'm sorry to tell you that your snarky responses are just as pointless if not baffling given you bothered to reply in the first place -- not to mention off topic in essence IMO. Can someone explain why we never see an equal number of "You didn't have to tell us" posts in threads from raving new macOS converts? You don't have to take it personally when someone doesn't like the same OS as you or has problems with it.

The OP post wasn't even asking for advice on fixing the issue, he's talking about the poor quality of software Apple are publishing these days and the methods they use to force you to upgrade OS version. I happen to agree with him on that. "You don't have to upgrade OS" is such a flippant statement because it's another way of saying "You don't have to get new security upgrades or the latest features of the device you paid for." After a while the option to not upgrade becomes very difficult when the software you paid for (in particular the stuff on the Mac App Store) is no longer compatible with your version of OS, this is especially the case with software subscriptions that drop support for older versions (just look at what 1Password is doing).

The OP puts the blame for their own actions elsewhere. And as already pointed out by the mods, the thread was moved to the alternative forum section.
Reading the feedback and comments rather than misrepresenting them in the hyperbole of your entry sentences would have helped.

 

[millerj123]

macOS is basically a linux version. Linux supported printers ought to run. As the most common consumer's linux desktop system since ages Apple has agreements with particular manufacturers for some model. In the past Apple had its own printer line. In the nineties these printers came at a higher price tag than Microsoft compatible devices but were part of Apple's ecosystem. The switch for a Microsoft user can be dazzling in this regard. Working peripherals are no longer recognized. You must understand you're thinking as a IBM open architecture customer now. Every device or component must be compatible. After the Apple II that was not the way Apple did business. I agree this is a nuisance. What brand is your printer? Reach out to the manufacturer or even the linux community.

To be clear in time you'll notice that macOS tends to keep working while MS Windows well...

Sorry, no. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macintosh_operating_systems#Mac_OS_X_/_OS_X_/_macOS
BSD, NextStep and XNU. macOS is certified UNIX, so not a version of Linux.

 

[AZhappyjack]

I think the amusing thing is that he's jumping to Windows on the basis of Software quality and forced upgrades.

If this had been a "I'm headed to Linux" post I could understand, but (and I say this as an enterprise Microsoft / network administrator) - A lot of Microsoft's software is far, far worse in terms of bugs, security and reliability. They also force you to upgrade if you want to maintain security update support.

Really he should be making the step to Linux if those things are a concern. Printing set up on linux these days is pretty easy. like, automatically finds network printers.

One could argue that if the OP was incapable of backing up his valuable data, or ignoring the UPGRADE button, the Linux world is probably not going to be his solution to anything.

 

[ericwn]

These are fine and fair responses to a post in this forum. See below for why.




These other people are not mad at someone using the forum the way it was intended; in fact, those other people are also doing the same exact thing in using the forum in the way it was intended. However, their opposition to the OP is based on the attitude that the OP is bringing and lack of work that could have prevented the issue from ever occurring, and by extension, prevented his post and this thread from ever occurring.



I don't think anyone is proclaiming undying love or fealty to MacOS. In fact, there have been plenty of people here saying to use the OS that is best for what one needs. In this case, however, the important word is USE. From the OP's post, it was presented that the OP didn't USE the OS to its potential; in particular, the use of the tools to prevent any sort of disaster in which to recover from. That is also part of the USE of MacOS. But instead of looking into those tools to use, he chose to blame the OS for letting him down, when the onus to protect himself, his data, and the USE of his peripherals clearly fell upon him.

That isn't, once again, the fault of Apple; that is the fault of the user and the lack of USE of MacOS at hand. If that functionality was available since Leopard, that's 13 years worth of having the tools available to protect a user from any sort of disaster, let alone to recover back to the last best known working state. Why that wasn't used prior to any upgrade is only an answer that the OP can provide; to date, it hasn't been provided.



What methods would this be?



If your Mac is still under active support, you do not, and are not actively forced to upgrade your version of MacOS. Users of Big Sur are not forced to upgrade to Monterey, as Big Sur is still supported. Users of Catalina are not forced to upgrade, as that is still supported. And even with that, those Macs that are still hardware supported are still good with security updates for their OS being used, if that OS is still supported.

And as the OP just found out, "latest features" != stability. I found that out with my MBA and High Sierra, which is why I dropped back to Sierra after High Sierra came out. I've been rock solid on Sierra and supported throughout the entire SDLC of Sierra, up until my Mac was moved to Obsolete status. Hell, even some security updates that were released are still available for my Mac, so to say that it is a flippant remark is disingenuous.



That is different and irrelevant to the actual OS being upgraded the way that the OP upgraded. One should always... ALWAYS see if the hardware and software requirements are met and/or supported by the hardware/software in general. If not, you have the choice: stay with what works and is stable, or upgrade and take the chance that your hardware doesn't work. The OP rolled the dice with the latter option, and rolled up snake-eyes; not once, but twice when you add in that the research into if his hardware will work with the upgrade was not done.

Again, that is on the OP, not the OS, and blaming the OS and everything around him for his lack of research is just as disingenuous. That is what everyone is in arms about. Like I said before; if that research was done and questions asked on if that hardware would be supported, then everyone here would have a lot more sympathy and empathize with the OP's woes. That wasn't done, so it is hard to show sympathy for when the lack of work was not done or shown; hence, the responses given.

BL.

Wonderful and complete post. Thanks for this, read of the day.

 

[millerj123]

One could argue that if the OP was incapable of backing up his valuable data, or ignoring the UPGRADE button, the Linux world is probably not going to be his solution to anything.

Well, and worst case buy a compatible printer until the drivers get worked out. But to buy all new windows machines seems expensive and excessive.

 

[triptolemus]

macOS is basically a linux version.

No.

 

[idktbh]

Yet you could easily have:

1. backed up your Mac. Time Machine, CCC, whatever your backup method of choice is.
2. upgraded your Mac. When you noticed your problem;
3. created a USB boot stick of your last used OS, booted to that, and
4. restored your Mac completely from Time Machine, getting you back to exactly where you were prior to upgrading.

Again, not Apple's fault there, especially when other avenues could have been taken.

I'm on a mid-2011 13" MBA, and I'm about to pull the trigger on a MBP. I haven't been able to upgrade since Sierra, and when I was able to go to High Sierra, my Mac crashed spontaneously over anything and everything I did. An hour later thanks to a full Time Machine restore, I was back rock solid on Sierra, and have been ever since.

My point: Just because you CAN upgrade doesn't mean you NEED to or MUST upgrade.

BL.

all this **** for a ****ing printer? c'mon!

 

[millerj123]

all this **** for a ****ing printer? c'mon!

To be fair, it's over 3 printers.

 

[Larsvonhier]

bye
;-)

 

[grandM]

Sorry, no. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macintosh_operating_systems#Mac_OS_X_/_OS_X_/_macOS
BSD, NextStep and XNU. macOS is certified UNIX, so not a version of Linux.

You're right. It's UNIX. My mistake. I actually knew this but spent too much time with a linux adept, lol.

 

[ForkHandles]

Finally, after 15 years of Mac, I have admitted defeat and realised that the reasons that I moved to Apple from Microsoft all those years ago, are no longer true. One of my main reasons was, the almost constant upgrades that Microsoft kept forcing on me, but now I find that Apple are doing the same. The other reason was the buggy nature of the upgrades that microsoft introduced causing frequent and often not easily solved issues. Now I find Apple all too frequently doing the same. The latest lovely little glitch to hit me is after ”upgrading” to Monterey, none of my three printers will work, and none of them have “monterey” drivers available. I have now bitten the bullet and purchased a Windows 10 machine so that I can at least print things out (all three printers are working fine in Windows 10). I am a straightforward user, I have zero interest in geekery or digging into the depths of the OS, I just want a reliable machine that works, day in, day out. I’m not even getting into the 32bit v 64bit thing and how that’s devastated my gaming options. The blunt fact is that the premium that I was happy to pay for my Apple iMac is no longer worth it. So after 15 years, I’m back with Microsoft. Poor Mr Jobs must be revolving at a very high speed. Whoever the current CEO of Apple is, he needs to ask himself some very hard searching questions, and the rest of us had better pray that he never moves into manufacturing aircraft.

So you joined this forum on Friday 1pm , left at 2:05pm to say goodbye to people you never chatted to in your life. hilarious!

 

[turbineseaplane]

So you joined this forum on Friday 1pm , left at 2:05pm to say goodbye to people you never chatted to in your life. hilarious!

Did you even read the rest of the thread?

Like 10 people have made your same essential point.

Just skip beyond a thread you don’t like without dropping in a snark post

 

[ThunderSkunk]

good for you, i use both and stopped at Mojave.

Same. I have Monterey on a high speed external as a curiosity, but am stuck on Mojave. The last few years, Apple has left quite a wake of destruction in their path. After compiling the spreadsheet, I’ve found that not one thing in our office actually fully works with OSX anymore, and Apple will phase out the remaining compatibility over the next few years. So we can either throw all this very nice and extremely expensive equipment in the landfill, and try to buy a whole pile of new stuff to do the same thing the previous stuff did perfectly well, or just run all our hardware from the windows side (since that just keeps working forever) but now the Mac can’t run windows anymore either... When I’m objective about it, there’s less and less reason in prolonging the inevitable.

 

[ForkHandles]

Did you even read the rest of the thread?

Like 10 people have made your same essential point.

Just skip beyond a thread you don’t like without dropping in a snark post

I love that you do Tally charts of the responses to peoples posts. Do you have an app for that or just pencil and paper?

 

[triptolemus]

 

[Isamilis]

Finally, after 15 years of Mac, I have admitted defeat and realised that the reasons that I moved to Apple from Microsoft all those years ago, are no longer true. One of my main reasons was, the almost constant upgrades that Microsoft kept forcing on me, but now I find that Apple are doing the same. The other reason was the buggy nature of the upgrades that microsoft introduced causing frequent and often not easily solved issues. Now I find Apple all too frequently doing the same. The latest lovely little glitch to hit me is after ”upgrading” to Monterey, none of my three printers will work, and none of them have “monterey” drivers available. I have now bitten the bullet and purchased a Windows 10 machine so that I can at least print things out (all three printers are working fine in Windows 10). I am a straightforward user, I have zero interest in geekery or digging into the depths of the OS, I just want a reliable machine that works, day in, day out. I’m not even getting into the 32bit v 64bit thing and how that’s devastated my gaming options. The blunt fact is that the premium that I was happy to pay for my Apple iMac is no longer worth it. So after 15 years, I’m back with Microsoft. Poor Mr Jobs must be revolving at a very high speed. Whoever the current CEO of Apple is, he needs to ask himself some very hard searching questions, and the rest of us had better pray that he never moves into manufacturing aircraft.

What did you use before you upgraded to Monterey? Are you able to print and do all the stuff with that (I am assuming it’s Big Sur)? If so, why didn’t you stay there? If you are already 15 years using Mac, I am sure you already know, that you are not forced to upgrade, and sometimes particular printer / device supports are not available in its early release.

 

[millerj123]

Did you even read the rest of the thread?

Like 10 people have made your same essential point.

Just skip beyond a thread you don’t like without dropping in a snark post

Who voted you boss?

 

[bradl]

all this **** for a ****ing printer? c'mon!

Yes. For a ******* printer. In fact, you do this for ANY upgrade, in case that upgrade fails. I would have been completely and totally screwed with an all-but-bricked MBA after upgrading to High Sierra, and that was without the printer I have now, let alone any other printer. But a backup and restore got me back up and running within an hour.

It's no joke that the first thing Apple let alone any vendor tells you to do is to back up your data in case of any failure or disaster. They do that for iOS. The do that for iPadOS. They do that for MacOS. You should always have a backup of your data for no matter what the disaster: from the most catastrophic (such as your Mac being totally bricked) to the most boring, and mundane (such as a printer not working). That way you get back to the last known working state where everything "just works".

In fact, this isn't even just for a "******* printer". He performed a OPERATING SYSTEM UPGRADE, in which it damned well requires a backup of his Mac.

So yes, even for a ******* printer. Again, this issue is a PEBKAC issue that could have been avoided.

BL.

 

[mi7chy]

Windows isn't perfect but it's much better off. 2003 HP printer works fine on 2007 PC running Windows 10. I bet if I drag out the 1993 HP LaserJet 4 it'll work with Windows 10/11.

 

[minimo3]

Well, got a few things off my chest, and maybe others are also feeling somewhat miffed as well?

You failed to realize that even though this forum is called “alternatives to Mac hardware” you may not talk about your appreciation of the alternatives. It’s just here to make the MR regulars feel like they’re being impartial, don’t fall for it.

 

[ericwn]

You failed to realize that even though this forum is called “alternatives to Mac hardware” you may not talk about your appreciation of the alternatives. It’s just here to make the MR regulars feel like they’re being impartial, don’t fall for it.

It wasn’t posted here but moved here.

 

[MBAir2010]

Remember how she said that we would meet again ... some sunny day? The OP will come back someday.

I donno
their macbook and printer is just another brick, i recall!