Has anybody received a truly silent nMP?

[MH01]

It's not like there's an official statement on Apple.com, but the information my contact person received from the engineers is that it's a known issue and there's no resolution for it (as in they didn't have a way of fixing the machine). This doesn't mean you can't fix coil whine or that the engineers doesn't know what causes it etc, it's most likely just about getting processes in place.

As someone mentioned in the other thread, the architecture the Dxx series are based on had a lot of coil whine issues on the PC side of things, wouldn't surprise me if it was related.

Just googled 7970 coil whine. Yup it looks like its a fairly common problem. If that's the case the coil whine will happen at certain fps ranges, so even if you think yours it quite, u might want to run some benchmarks to make sure.

Someone who has a "silent" one and is running windows , please download http://unigine.com/products/heaven/download/ and run the benchmark. Seems the PC guys can trigger the whine in thier 7970s running the benchmark.

 

[jimgeb]

Mine is very quiet with a slight hiss when under heavy rendering when you get within a couple of feet. No "whine".

 

[808?]

Where does Apple state that the nMP is supposed to be truly silent?

They state it will be quieter, but not silent.

 

[Cubemmal]

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make by quoting me; all I was pointing out is that it's possible that some people can't hear/don't notice/don't care about the higher-pitched sound. I can hear it in the recording, can't hear it on my nMP, and don't care either way because the noises that my computer does make don't bother me in the least.

You and I agree. I was addressing the people who were hyper on this issue and actually sending their nMP's back. Unless their computer is actually worse than that, I think they're just turning new computers into refurbs and driving up costs for the rest of us.

The machine has a moving part, it will make some sound, end of story. Unless they can successfully revive The Cube that isn't going to change.

----------

Where does Apple state that the nMP is supposed to be truly silent?

They state it will be quieter, but not silent.

Exactly, around 24 dB IIRC. I wonder how many of those people who sent them back actually measured? None, I'm sure.

 

[tozz]

You and I agree. I was addressing the people who were hyper on this issue and actually sending their nMP's back. Unless their computer is actually worse than that, I think they're just turning new computers into refurbs and driving up costs for the rest of us.

The machine has a moving part, it will make some sound, end of story. Unless they can successfully revive The Cube that isn't going to change.

This has nothing to with the moving part (the fan) but faulty electronic parts. Coil whine is nothing new and you get no bonus points for defending a company that sells products with it (and customers who send in machines that have bad components aren't the ones driving up the costs, that's just silly).

----------

Just googled 7970 coil whine. Yup it looks like its a fairly common problem. If that's the case the coil whine will happen at certain fps ranges, so even if you think yours it quite, u might want to run some benchmarks to make sure.

Someone who has a "silent" one and is running windows , please download http://unigine.com/products/heaven/download/ and run the benchmark. Seems the PC guys can trigger the whine in thier 7970s running the benchmark.

You can run it in OSX too, certain scenes will severely impact the amount of whine.

 

[deconstruct60]

(and customers who send in machines that have bad components aren't the ones driving up the costs, that's just silly).

Customers who drive exchanges before Apple has a good handle on a solid solution are driving up costs. That exchange may not be a solution. In that case money is spent and the problem is still unsolved. That is pretty much wasted money on shipping.

Returned for money and go off to buy another product that is a solution wouldn't be. Likewise, exchanged at a later date when root cause is fully flushed out for a Mac Pro ( or perhaps just GPU cards swapped out) probably an even more cost effective solution.

Part of the "drive up costs" was the 'hyper' customers, not simply just customers with known defective products.

Another poster mentioned googling threads. Ones like this wasn't all that uncommon.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1259672/7970-coil-whine-a-way-to-fix-it-solved


One workaround was simply letting the components "work though" getting adjusted to power swings. A subset seem likely to be parts that are just new and need to settle in. Another are gong to be those with long term issues. It is probably going to take a while to sort out what the reasonable expected size of each is going to be with this system.

I suspect it is going to be hard to get cards that are 100% immune across the entire operating spectrum for these cards. Common activities there is a good chance to put it inside of reasonable constraints. However, hyper folks looking for problems will find them.

 

[tozz]

Customers who drive exchanges before Apple has a good handle on a solid solution are driving up costs. That exchange may not be a solution. In that case money is spent and the problem is still unsolved. That is pretty much wasted money on shipping.

Returned for money and go off to buy another product that is a solution wouldn't be. Likewise, exchanged at a later date when root cause is fully flushed out for a Mac Pro ( or perhaps just GPU cards swapped out) probably an even more cost effective solution.

Part of the "drive up costs" was the 'hyper' customers, not simply just customers with known defective products.

Another poster mentioned googling threads. Ones like this wasn't all that uncommon.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1259672/7970-coil-whine-a-way-to-fix-it-solved


One workaround was simply letting the components "work though" getting adjusted to power swings. A subset seem likely to be parts that are just new and need to settle in. Another are gong to be those with long term issues. It is probably going to take a while to sort out what the reasonable expected size of each is going to be with this system.

I suspect it is going to be hard to get cards that are 100% immune across the entire operating spectrum for these cards. Common activities there is a good chance to put it inside of reasonable constraints. However, hyper folks looking for problems will find them.

No, the consumers aren't asking for anything outside their rights, those rights are ofc part of calculations made by Apple before setting prices. It's also not the fault of the consumer that the manufacturer hasn't tested the product they're selling thoroughly.
You have no obligation towards a company for buying a product.

 

[michaeljk]

Yes, mine has no whine, only a faint fan whir

I posted this in the other thread ("Coil Whine") before realizing this thread existed, so I am posting it hear as well (hope this is okay).

I hear no whine on my nMP (standard 6-core config). This weekend, after reading through this thread, I turned everything else in my office off--the external HDDs, monitors, external speakers, all other electronics (midi and recording gear). I sat in the office with the door closed (door has pro-level soundproofing added), sat and waited. I heard the faint whir of the fan from the nMP. Nothing else. I put my ear to the top of the nMP, waited for a good 30-60 seconds. Nothing but a fan whir.

I'm not saying others don't have real issues with their nMP. I will say I think I have very good hearing, including at low levels. Back when I had the PowerMac G5, I had not one, but two hum eliminators in my audio signal path and used an external power block between the PowerPC and the rest of the home electronics to separate additional possible signal noise. And I still never eliminated its whining, chirping, strange signal noise issues. So, I was a bit paranoid when I read this thread, after finally venturing back to the land of the Pro-Mac market ten years later (I actually sold the PowerMac in part because I had wanted to use it as my sound studio Mac and found it useless due to its chirping and humming).

I am glad to report that, either my hearing has deteriorated considerably in the past ten years (not that likely, although some to be sure), or this is not a universal problem, because my nMP exhibits none of the whining issues reported by others.

Also, (I didn't post this in the other thread) although I didn't think to put it under stress when checking it for silence, I have had the cores running fairly hard for short periods of time when batch processing numerous large photo files and the only difference is that the fan ran a bit louder, but still very pleasant, no whine.

 

[evilpaddy]

.........................

I do not agree at all.
I believe some machines have this noise problem and others have none.
I can hear every noise file that some people have recorded and put in this forum.
I am 69 years old.
Accordingly the noise frequency cannot be truly high and age is not the determining factor.
Either a certain computer makes that noise or it is truly silent.
Since this computer has no optical drive and no spinning hard disk, nothing moves inside it besides the single optimized fan.
Therefore I cannot understand how any sound, besides the subtle whisper of warm air, which I certainly do not consider to be a "noise" can happen at all !!!
I hope Apple finds the solution!

I suspect you are right in that some machines are more audible than others in the higher frequencies. 'Coil whine' has been extensively discussed elsewhere and provides a perfectly plausible explanation given the lack of moving parts. I guess the exact frequency has never been proven. Does anyone know what frequency this whine is on, as that should help target the part?

High frequency hearing is incredibly subjective and very easily damaged. Advancing age will definitely show a positive correlation with a diminishing ability to discern higher frequency sounds, but that relationship certainly won't be linear. In my experience most people over 40yrs will have some evidence of presbycusis and at 69 you should consider yourself very luck if you have the, albeit selective, hearing of a teenager.

Now personally I see this as a good thing, as potentially, I can actively deter random pets and 'the youth of today' from using my stuff! j/k

From the wiki link above...
Recently, the ability of young people to hear high frequency tones that are inaudible to others over 25 or so has led to the development of technologies to disperse groups of yobboes around nearby British shops (The Mosquito), and the development of a cell phone ringtone, Teen Buzz, for students to use in school, that many older instructors are unable to hear. In September 2006 this technique was used to make a dance track called 'Buzzin'. The track had two melodies, one that everyone could hear and one that only younger people could hear.

 

[Riwam]

It is not a very high frequency and 12 dB is equal to silence

I suspect you are right in that some machines are more audible than others in the higher frequencies. 'Coil whine' has been extensively discussed elsewhere and provides a perfectly plausible explanation given the lack of moving parts. I guess the exact frequency has never been proven. Does anyone know what frequency this whine is on, as that should help target the part?

High frequency hearing is incredibly subjective and very easily damaged. Advancing age will definitely show a positive correlation with a diminishing ability to discern higher frequency sounds, but that relationship certainly won't be linear.

Now personally I see this as a good thing, as potentially, I can actively deter random pets and 'the youth of today' from using my stuff! j/k

"..............................................................

I found a tool producing increasingly high frequencies and tested me (I am 69),
At about 10 KHz I could hear nothing more.
This should be the case with most people at my age.
I then found 2 Apps measuring in dB the sound around.
I am aware that the mike of my iPad 2 is not the ideal equipment but I had nothing better.
I could not in a silent room obtain that the dB needle should show less than 30 dB. Obviously some noises from outside or inside, even not loud at all, translate into such a value.
My quite breathing made it jump about 8 dB. That proved the tool was working although certainly not any high piece of sound level measuring equipment.

What that all means?

First that the noise recorded by different users complaining about a "noisy" nMP must be in my humble opinion of just a few KHz. Otherwise I could not in any way hear it and I DO HEAR THE RECORDED FILES!

Second, if Apple offers their nMP stating no more than 12dB noise, that means for any practical use SILENCE!

To sum up, the noise that at least some nMP make is by no means so high that age might be the decisive reason why some people hear it and others don't.
And if a nMP keeps the spec of Apple of no more than 12dB, then it is truly silent and dead quiet (or the opposite order or words if somebody prefers).
Whoever hears from a nMP an annoying sound, has received a machine with a clear and undeniable hardware fault and has a legitimate right to ask for repair or replacement until the 12dB threshold is kept, in which silence is a reality.
To argue that this causes unnecessary expenses to other buyers of nMP (as some genius has written) is absolute nonsense.
Every repair under warranty causes some expenses. Therefore let's abolish all warranties and avoid in this way expenses for other customers.
Do all agree with this wise solution????
If a giant like Apple cannot resist the ridiculous percentage of losses caused by repairing a relative small quantity of faulty computers in the best and most expensive class they offer, then let's start to collect money to help them survive!

 

[evilpaddy]

"..............................................................

I found a tool producing increasingly high frequencies and tested me (I am 69),
At about 10 KHz I could hear nothing more.
This should be the case with most people at my age.
I then found 2 Apps measuring in dB the sound around.
I am aware that the mike of my iPad 2 is not the ideal equipment but I had nothing better.
I could not in a silent room obtain that the dB needle should show less than 30 dB. Obviously some noises from outside or inside, even not loud at all, translate into such a value.
My quite breathing made it jump about 8 dB. That proved the tool was working although certainly not any high piece of sound level measuring equipment.

What that all means?

First that the noise recorded by different users complaining about a "noisy" nMP must be in my humble opinion of just a few KHz. Otherwise I could not in any way hear it and I DO HEAR THE RECORDED FILES!

Second, if Apple offers their nMP stating no more than 12dB noise, that means for any practical use SILENCE!

To sum up, the noise that at least some nMP make is by no means so high that age might be the decisive reason why some people hear it and others don't.
And if a nMP keeps the spec of Apple of no more than 12dB, then it is truly silent and dead quiet (or the opposite order or words if somebody prefers).
Whoever hears from a nMP an annoying sound, has received a machine with a clear and undeniable hardware fault and has a legitimate right to ask for repair or replacement until the 12dB threshold is kept, in which silence is a reality.
To argue that this causes unnecessary expenses to other buyers of nMP (as some genius has written) is absolute nonsense.
Every repair under warranty causes some expenses. Therefore let's abolish all warranties and avoid in this way expenses for other customers.
Do all agree with this wise solution????
If a giant like Apple cannot resist the ridiculous percentage of losses caused by repairing a relative small quantity of faulty computers in the best and most expensive class they offer, then let's start to collect money to help them survive!

I agree that 12dB is quiet, with a 'whisper' coming in at 15dB. However in a quiet room, the absolute lower threshold for discernable hearing is over ten times quieter than that. The dB scale is a logarithmic ratio comparing the measured sound to the absolute lower threshold. We are all different and some of us can also detect certain frequencies far more easily than others. Age related high frequency hearing loss is a regrettable fact. It usually sets in below 3.5kHz and subsequently, most hearing tests don't go that much higher than 10kHz as they are usually performed for occupational reasons. Commercial drivers have to do better than an averaged 60dB hearing loss in frequencies < 3.5kHz for example...

People, particularly those that are young, can detect low volume, high frequency sounds considerably better than those twice their age. I'm sorry, but my children will have better hearing than me, and I should have better hearing than you. Within the reason of 'normality' of course.

You, or indeed anyone else being able to hear a recording proves little other than you're either the exception to the rule and I may as well sell all my medical degrees on eBay , or the recording is less than a fair representation. Recordings have a high probability of being inaccurate due to electronic gain and amplitude control, subtle differences in tonal shift, distance from observer etc... and that's without even beginning to discuss the inherent flaw of comparing an iPhone mic and a human ear, for example. Sadly there is a reason that sound check equipment is expensive.

I am waiting for my nMP to arrive. Unfortunately this reminds me of the 'image retention' saga of the rMBP. Loads of people ended up returning their rMBP because a terminal command stated they had one brand of screen over another...

The only way we can know for certain that the whine is audible, is for someone to check in person. If you can not hear any of the affected machines whine, in person, then that's fairly conclusive that it's a hearing issue, which I for one am fine with. If you can hear it on one, and not another, despite no difference in ambient background noise, then it's unlikely to be your ears at fault! Could always be a first rank symptom of schizophrenia though

I'm not really looking to start a conflict here. Those whom feel there is a genuine fault should pursue Apple for a warranty claim. Those who are happy with their product, should enjoy it! Arguing over who can hear what is rarely helpful unless someone with a whiney machine can meet up with a member who has a silent one and they both compare, direct and in person...

Now I'm going to go before I start hearing things!

 

[808?]

Second, if Apple offers their nMP stating no more than 12dB noise, that means for any practical use SILENCE!

Where is this stated on the Apple website?

 

[Nismo73]

Where is this stated on the Apple website?

It says at idle.
http://support.apple.com/kb/SP697

 

[808?]

Good to know, thanks.

 

[MH01]

I posted this in the other thread ("Coil Whine") before realizing this thread existed, so I am posting it hear as well (hope this is okay).

I hear no whine on my nMP (standard 6-core config). This weekend, after reading through this thread, I turned everything else in my office off--the external HDDs, monitors, external speakers, all other electronics (midi and recording gear). I sat in the office with the door closed (door has pro-level soundproofing added), sat and waited. I heard the faint whir of the fan from the nMP. Nothing else. I put my ear to the top of the nMP, waited for a good 30-60 seconds. Nothing but a fan whir.

I'm not saying others don't have real issues with their nMP. I will say I think I have very good hearing, including at low levels. Back when I had the PowerMac G5, I had not one, but two hum eliminators in my audio signal path and used an external power block between the PowerPC and the rest of the home electronics to separate additional possible signal noise. And I still never eliminated its whining, chirping, strange signal noise issues. So, I was a bit paranoid when I read this thread, after finally venturing back to the land of the Pro-Mac market ten years later (I actually sold the PowerMac in part because I had wanted to use it as my sound studio Mac and found it useless due to its chirping and humming).

I am glad to report that, either my hearing has deteriorated considerably in the past ten years (not that likely, although some to be sure), or this is not a universal problem, because my nMP exhibits none of the whining issues reported by others.

Also, (I didn't post this in the other thread) although I didn't think to put it under stress when checking it for silence, I have had the cores running fairly hard for short periods of time when batch processing numerous large photo files and the only difference is that the fan ran a bit louder, but still very pleasant, no whine.

Could you redo the exact same test, though this time, run a graphics benchmark test like Heaven. This should prove that you have a silent nMP or that only at certain frequencies the coil whine kicks in.

 

[Riwam]

At operator position

It says at idle.
http://support.apple.com/kb/SP697

And it says "at operator position".
Unless the "operator" is a long arm, huge, grown up gorilla, that "position" will be at no more than 1 meter from the ears of the user.
Otherwise he could not "operate" it from his "position".
Since this computer is built to be placed on the working table, the warm air coming from the upper part and blown by the only moving component (the fan) will be at about the height of the operators ears.
If the operator of a nMP hears a noise, (and some people report they do) then the machine certainly does not keep the 12 dB threshold and the owner has got a problem.
Some people in this forum are in that unlucky situation, unfortunately...

 

[ha1o2surfer]

I'll leave this hear for everyone to watch and listen too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HP73edpQwgc

This noise is not that high pitched just very quiet.

 

[Cubemmal]

OK, thanks to this thread now I'm aware of the sound. It was there all along, but I'm so used to noisy computers I wasn't paying attention to it. A few observations.

• One, it is very low level. Without an anechoic chamber I don't know for sure, but would estimate it as maybe a maximum of 3-5 dB over the base level. Kids in the neighborhood making sounds, from a few blocks away through double paned and insulated walls are louder by a dB or two by my estimation.
• Two, it is intermittent. It does depend on something - system activity of some sort presumably.
• Three, the noise composition of it is quite innocuous. It's certainly not what I'd normally consider a coil wine, which is a pure sine tone up between 16-18kHz say. This is a more complex mixture which is less objectionable. To my ears I'd describe it as a "ungreased spindle".

Not sure what to say. Too bad it has it at all, but frankly it's still so low level I'd have a hard time justifying turning in my computer over it. It's certainly below my level of interest, but to be truthful I'd rather I hadn't read this thread. I'll probably forget about it, I certainly don't want to obsess over such a minor thing.

 

[Stephent]

It is hard for me to hear anything other than the voices in my head, but it seems very quiet to me.

 

[tozz]

I'll leave this hear for everyone to watch and listen too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HP73edpQwgc

This noise is not that high pitched just very quiet.

I wouldn't call that quiet, but that's personal preferences. I'm used to a machine that only exhibits very low fan noise (consistent, easily filtered by your brain) so that irregular squeaking gives me a headache in no time.

 

[Riwam]

Obsess? Certainly not, just solve it!

OK, thanks to this thread now I'm aware of the sound. It was there all along, but I'm so used to noisy computers I wasn't paying attention to it. A few observations.

• One, it is very low level. Without an anechoic chamber I don't know for sure, but would estimate it as maybe a maximum of 3-5 dB over the base level. Kids in the neighborhood making sounds, from a few blocks away through double paned and insulated walls are louder by a dB or two by my estimation.
• Two, it is intermittent. It does depend on something - system activity of some sort presumably.
• Three, the noise composition of it is quite innocuous. It's certainly not what I'd normally consider a coil wine, which is a pure sine tone up between 16-18kHz say. This is a more complex mixture which is less objectionable. To my ears I'd describe it as a "ungreased spindle".

Not sure what to say. Too bad it has it at all, but frankly it's still so low level I'd have a hard time justifying turning in my computer over it. It's certainly below my level of interest, but to be truthful I'd rather I hadn't read this thread. I'll probably forget about it, I certainly don't want to obsess over such a minor thing.

..............................
Nobody in this forum will end in a psychiatric institution because his new and expensive Apple computer makes a noise it shouldn't.
This thread is about showing that at least on some nMP there is a level of noise that bothers users positioned

​

necessarily at a short distance of it to be able to operate it.
Apparently some of the nMP are truly quiet according to their owners but others aren't.
Apple should find a solution for those computers making too much noise.
If your computer does not make any audible noise or it does but you are not annoyed by it, then this post does not concern you.

 

[richard371]

I wonder if a mod can combine this and the coil whine thread into one?

 

[ha1o2surfer]

I wouldn't call that quiet, but that's personal preferences. I'm used to a machine that only exhibits very low fan noise (consistent, easily filtered by your brain) so that irregular squeaking gives me a headache in no time.

I can agree to consistent noise being easier to live with. I had a motherboard that used to coil whine and I had to take it back.. The guys video I posted also did the same thing and returned so parts to get one that didn't.

I just wanted to post a video that had it explained and recorded for everyone to hear.

 

[lemonade-maker]

I agree that 12dB is quiet, with a 'whisper' coming in at 15dB. However in a quiet room, the absolute lower threshold for discernable hearing is over ten times quieter than that. The dB scale is a logarithmic ratio comparing the measured sound to the absolute lower threshold. We are all different and some of us can also detect certain frequencies far more easily than others. Age related high frequency hearing loss is a regrettable fact. It usually sets in below 3.5kHz and subsequently, most hearing tests don't go that much higher than 10kHz as they are usually performed for occupational reasons. Commercial drivers have to do better than an averaged 60dB hearing loss in frequencies < 3.5kHz for example...

People, particularly those that are young, can detect low volume, high frequency sounds considerably better than those twice their age. I'm sorry, but my children will have better hearing than me, and I should have better hearing than you. Within the reason of 'normality' of course.

You, or indeed anyone else being able to hear a recording proves little other than you're either the exception to the rule and I may as well sell all my medical degrees on eBay , or the recording is less than a fair representation. Recordings have a high probability of being inaccurate due to electronic gain and amplitude control, subtle differences in tonal shift, distance from observer etc... and that's without even beginning to discuss the inherent flaw of comparing an iPhone mic and a human ear, for example. Sadly there is a reason that sound check equipment is expensive.

I am waiting for my nMP to arrive. Unfortunately this reminds me of the 'image retention' saga of the rMBP. Loads of people ended up returning their rMBP because a terminal command stated they had one brand of screen over another...

The only way we can know for certain that the whine is audible, is for someone to check in person. If you can not hear any of the affected machines whine, in person, then that's fairly conclusive that it's a hearing issue, which I for one am fine with. If you can hear it on one, and not another, despite no difference in ambient background noise, then it's unlikely to be your ears at fault! Could always be a first rank symptom of schizophrenia though

I'm not really looking to start a conflict here. Those whom feel there is a genuine fault should pursue Apple for a warranty claim. Those who are happy with their product, should enjoy it! Arguing over who can hear what is rarely helpful unless someone with a whiney machine can meet up with a member who has a silent one and they both compare, direct and in person...

Now I'm going to go before I start hearing things!

Easy solution. Get old, damage your hearing, or ignore. Seriously, if people who are old can't hear it and younger can, how much of a problem is it? What is the ratio of young to old that buy these things?

 

[Riwam]

Am I old enough for you at 69?

Easy solution. Get old, damage your hearing, or ignore. Seriously, if people who are old can't hear it and younger can, how much of a problem is it? What is the ratio of young to old that buy these things?

...................................
I have no problem to hear all the recorded noise files of different nMP posted in MacRumors Forum.
I am 69.
Do you still believe it is a problem caused (...or solved!) by age?
Hardly!