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It looks like Apple is out of the computer display market and is now is using macOS as a monicker. Time Cook was quoted as saying, "who would want to use a PC?".

The discontinuation of a Mac Pro desktop computer might just be one of Apple's upcoming options. Apple under SJ always insisted on controlling the hardware and software for a total user experience. That could change. Apple has licensed it's OS in the past, although out of an act of misguided desperation. But instead of desperation it could now be just practicality.

Honestly, a move like this would be quite surprising but not a total shock, at least for me.
 
Since when? Where is this coming from?

Just copying from the Buyers guide for MP:
Days since last release 926 Dec 2013
Average 449

Recent releases
556 Jun 2012
685 Jul 2010
511 Mar 2009
420 Jan 2008
279 Apr 2007
240 Aug 2006


That average that MR uses is increasing disconnected from reality. A better average for the Mac Pr would be 2010 forward (Maybe 2009 ). The conditions of 2006-2010 don't really exist anymore. Intel isn't updating the Xeon E5 class processors at a yearly speed. None of the other major workstation vendors are on a yearly schedule anymore. So it isn't an 'Apple thing'.


3-4 years would be extreme. But the baseline CPUs aren't likely to come any faster than 18 months. ( E5 v5 may come more quickly only due to fact that v4 was so late ( ~6 months ). So may get down to a year. ).


iMacs: Average 317 days
MBP: Average 268 days
and so on, you can check them by yourself.

Check what Apple has done in the last 3 years across products. You'll see that they are all off the averages MR uses. If look a the standard deviations and the medians you'll see that across all the products that average that MR is using is off the mark.



So a delay like the current one is something new, so it's logical to wonder


Not particularly new. If remove the MP 2012 ( which was more a placeholder than an upgrade. Model number stayed the same. )

the big difference was that they had more frequent updates.

And more people bought on shorter life cycles.
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Maybe there just aren't enough people here who remember the days when Apple updated their Quadras, PowerMacs and MacPros fairly often.

You mean back when the PC industry in general was growing at 10-30% per year? That was a different time. It is relatively flat now. It is a rapidly maturing product market at this point.

But HP, Dell , Lenovo , etc. are all busying cranking out dozens and dozens iterations every year. And that old, dated strategy is buying them what? Substantive growth? Not.

Apple could string out some updates. CPU year , alternative GPU into another. The problem with there no forward statements is that it is based upon doing something. More doing , less talking.

IF it had been
2014 Mac Pro
2015 minor bump with a targetd Nvidia card
2016 new or another bump...
2017

that would be illustrative that they hadn't stopped.
 
Nothing wrong with smaller, sleeker designs...all else being equal. When it comes to the nMP all else is not equal. Apple removed capability in order to make it smaller and sleeker. If the nMP offered the same capability as the previous generation I doubt there would be so much opposition to it.

IOW it's not the smaller, sleeker design people object to. It's the removal of capability to achieve smaller, sleeker design that is the objection.

I had forgotten about this, but just remembered: Apple's "workstation" GPUs had to be detuned to run cool enough in the Tube. How stupid is that? They claim the Tube is the ultimate GPGPU video editing machine, yet if they had just updated the cMP and dropped in two off the shelf AMD FirePro W9000 video cards, it would have been significantly faster!

They've engaged in the worst form of marketing: start with an intentionally limited product, then let marketing figure out how to sell the limitations as features.
 
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I understand the feelings of those who have a lot of time, money and allegiance invested in Macs. I have a Mac Pro, a mini and a MacBook Pro sitting on the same desk. I am however writing this on an HP Z230. It is completely obvious to me that Apple has given up on the desktop computer market if not on home computers completely.

Sure, they still sell them. The higher-end iMacs are very nice computers. Still, the lack of everything-Mac coming from Apple makes it fairly obvious. For users who want powerful, reliable, up-gradable, cost-effect desktops there are better choices. Sometimes the truth hurts.

I predict we'll see the end of Mac OS laptops too when iOS and the necessary hardware become powerful enough for a laptop.
This post is going to seem ridiculous in a few months. I partly agree with your last sentence though however we won't see macOS laptops completely phased out and it won't happen for a long time.
 
But looking at the many threads on MacRumors its unlikely the ones trying to upgrade to Bluetooth 4.0 just to get Continuity/Handoff or macOS Sierra on a 1,1 / 1,2 Mac Pro are not likely waiting till the 7,1 nMP to come out till purchase. They are looking for a low cost of entry into the Mac world. Its not likely a new system is what they are looking to buy.

That's my point: used cMP buyers do not buy cMPs instead of new Tubes, they buy them because Apple won't sell them a minitower in the $1200-$2000 range (they used to).

It's not as if a quad core i7 rig will take the place of an 18 core beast for truly professional work in video, audio, and science.
 
That average that MR uses is increasing disconnected from reality. A better average for the Mac Pr would be 2010 forward (Maybe 2009 ). The conditions of 2006-2010 don't really exist anymore. Intel isn't updating the Xeon E5 class processors at a yearly speed. None of the other major workstation vendors are on a yearly schedule anymore. So it isn't an 'Apple thing'.


3-4 years would be extreme. But the baseline CPUs aren't likely to come any faster than 18 months. ( E5 v5 may come more quickly only due to fact that v4 was so late ( ~6 months ). So may get down to a year. ).




Check what Apple has done in the last 3 years across products. You'll see that they are all off the averages MR uses. If look a the standard deviations and the medians you'll see that across all the products that average that MR is using is off the mark.





Not particularly new. If remove the MP 2012 ( which was more a placeholder than an upgrade. Model number stayed the same. )



And more people bought on shorter life cycles.
[doublepost=1467486699][/doublepost]

You mean back when the PC industry in general was growing at 10-30% per year? That was a different time. It is relatively flat now. It is a rapidly maturing product market at this point.

But HP, Dell , Lenovo , etc. are all busying cranking out dozens and dozens iterations every year. And that old, dated strategy is buying them what? Substantive growth? Not.

Apple could string out some updates. CPU year , alternative GPU into another. The problem with there no forward statements is that it is based upon doing something. More doing , less talking.

IF it had been
2014 Mac Pro
2015 minor bump with a targetd Nvidia card
2016 new or another bump...
2017

that would be illustrative that they hadn't stopped.


Thank you for taking the time, there isn't anything you wrote to not agree.
Especially this one :
Apple could string out some updates. CPU year , alternative GPU into another. The problem with there no forward statements is that it is based upon doing something. More doing , less talking.

IF it had been
2014 Mac Pro
2015 minor bump with a targetd Nvidia card
2016 new or another bump...
2017

that would be illustrative that they hadn't stopped.
 
That's my point: used cMP buyers do not buy cMPs instead of new Tubes, they buy them because Apple won't sell them a minitower in the $1200-$2000 range (they used to).

It's not as if a quad core i7 rig will take the place of an 18 core beast for truly professional work in video, audio, and science.


what you say is partially true. there should be a lower cost option. for two years, Apple has offered the current Mac Mini. Max that out with i7, 16GB RAM, a 512GB SSD, keyboard and mouse: $1800. still dual core, still integrated graphics. do that with the Mac Pro, I'll go 6 core, D700, 512 SSD and figuring 3rd party RAM: approaching $5500. looking at that, I can only even recommend and iMac, and only since 2015 when they got rid of that low gamut screen and under-powered graphics. all of Apple's offerings are thermally constrained. none of them are suited for use as a server (too under powered (Mini) or having to pay for unneeded graphics cards (Mac Pro) plus the cost of rigging them to work in a rack).

that Mac Mini is incapable of being a graphics workstation (though a quad core 2015 update with user serviceable RAM could very well have, entry level). the abilities of that Mac Pro can be eclipsed by a well modded cMP for far less.

I was in charge of the hardware for a mid-sized design and video production shop from 2010 into 2015. I bought some new Mac Pros at the start but once I dug further in I realized Apple was overcharging for then. Some of the 2010 releases still used last gen CPUs. the 2012 update made some adjustments based on Intel updates and price drops that had happened in 2011 but with no new graphics cards. why would I buy a new machine when I could start updating entry level 4,1s (now all over eBay) and for $1500 less, end up with the same machine or better. And what did I most want from the update that finally dropped at the end of 2013? 8 RAM slots for that quad channel memory controller. something that Dell, HP, Lenovo, etc. already had in their mid-tier Xeon workstations. 128GB of RAM was the goal. Instead we went backwards. I had no Thunderbolt peripherals. even with a very capable and extensive server infrastructure I still had a need for multiple internal volumes. TBs worth. Apple's insane upcharge for the 1TB upgrade was not the answer. the choice was, keep working with the cMP or spend hundreds of thousands of dollars for an incremental update. and almost 3 years later, nothing about that proposition has changed. yes, I can now, through 3rd party vendors, put 128GB in the trash can, for significantly more than it costs to do that in a dual proc cMP.

and as you mentioned, "18 core beasts". the needs of 3D/CG work (Max, Maya, Nuke...) has been out of the reach of Apple for some time now, especially when you want to build a render farm*. so yeah, I've been expecting the wholesale industry changeover to Windows for some time now. but people (myself included) are keeping those old Mac Pros (and even a few trash cans) on their desks, waiting and hoping. I guess we all find out by years end whether Apple cares as much as we do. it's a shame no journalist, columnist, blogger... that gets access to Apple's executive team will ask that one simple question re. the Mac Pro, what do they expect people to do?

* before anyone returns with, you can build a Mac Pro render farm... yes. but it's a terrible waste of space and money. and only very recently has any sort of final rendering taken advantage of GPU processing (and still a limited case tool), and then usually with Nvidia hardware. so the included GPUs are just a waste of money and electricity. the last render system I set up put 160 real cores and 512GB of RAM (across 8 systems) in 4U of rack space. just over $50K custom built. to get that much potential with Mac Pros, using the 12 core and racking it. At least double the cost and 7 times the real estate. no thanks.
 
but I think most people view capability as what you can accomplish, content wise, on a computer... in which case, capability has either improved or side stepped.
there are, I imagine, very very few examples of 'I used to be able to do ____ on a Mac but can't anymore'.... probably no examples of that of any note.
And he expresses as his opinion..

No one answered his question earlier about what finished product they could produce on the cMP that they cannot on the nMP and I thing the reason is there is none.


Same is true of the Tube vs an iMac. Maybe it would take longer on an iMac, but you could do everything on an iMac that you can on a Tube.

How about an Ivy Bridge Mac Pro tower with dual high end video cards (latest generation) and dual sockets for colossal RAM? Would you still rather use a Tube?

The upgradability is about the need for a $4K - $8K computer to be an investment that can grow with time. Maybe some businesses can afford to piss money away but I know of a few smaller studios that always upgraded video cards in their cMPs, and they used both the internal storage and external SAS RAID enclosures. TB can obviate the need for internal storage but you're still stuck with GPUs that grow obsolete before the CPU does.
 
I understand the feelings of those who have a lot of time, money and allegiance invested in Macs. I have a Mac Pro, a mini and a MacBook Pro sitting on the same desk. I am however writing this on an HP Z230. It is completely obvious to me that Apple has given up on the desktop computer market if not on home computers completely.

Sure, they still sell them. The higher-end iMacs are very nice computers. Still, the lack of everything-Mac coming from Apple makes it fairly obvious. For users who want powerful, reliable, up-gradable, cost-effect desktops there are better choices. Sometimes the truth hurts.

I predict we'll see the end of Mac OS laptops too when iOS and the necessary hardware become powerful enough for a laptop.

And be locked into apples suffocating walled garden and forced to do things their way ... at that point, I would suppress my gag reflex and gp to windows, like so many others.
 
,
Same is true of the Tube vs an iMac. Maybe it would take longer on an iMac, but you could do everything on an iMac that you can on a Tube.
i swear a lot of people around here don't actually work on a computer because so much emphasis is placed on how fast a computer can crunch numbers and approx zero emphasis is placed on the user.

like, there are years worth of arguments around here about such&such computer can complete a rendering in 3 hours while it takes 4 hours on another computer... allthewhile, completely ignoring the fact that the user has spent 200 hrs of their own time getting the file to the point to where you can push the render button.

The upgradability is about the need for a $4K - $8K computer to be an investment that can grow with time. Maybe some businesses can afford to piss money away but I know of a few smaller studios that always upgraded video cards in their cMPs, and they used both the internal storage and external SAS RAID enclosures. TB can obviate the need for internal storage but you're still stuck with GPUs that grow obsolete before the CPU does.

the numbers just don't add up so well though..

span 12 years.

• user buys 3 computers at $4000 -- $12000.. or $1000/yr

• user buys 2 computers at $4000 --- spends $1000 each on upgrades.. $10000, or $840/yr.. 4 years of which has the user working on 5-6 year old computers.

the 'savings' are entirely negligible.. the argument would make sense if you could buy one computer in 12 years and spend maybe $2000 in upgrades but this simply is not the case. (i suppose it's possible but none of you upgrade maniacs are putting their money where their mouth is and doing this with their 'super upgradeable' G5s)
 
,

i swear a lot of people around here don't actually work on a computer because so much emphasis is placed on how fast a computer can crunch numbers and approx zero emphasis is placed on the user.

like, there are years worth of arguments around here about such&such computer can complete a rendering in 3 hours while it takes 4 hours on another computer... allthewhile, completely ignoring the fact that the user has spent 200 hrs of their own time getting the file to the point to where you can push the render button.



the numbers just don't add up so well though..

span 12 years.

• user buys 3 computers at $4000 -- $12000.. or $1000/yr

• user buys 2 computers at $4000 --- spends $1000 each on upgrades.. $10000, or $840/yr.. 4 years of which has the user working on 5-6 year old computers.

the 'savings' are entirely negligible.. the argument would make sense if you could buy one computer in 12 years and spend maybe $2000 in upgrades but this simply is not the case. (i suppose it's possible but none of you upgrade maniacs are putting their money where their mouth is and doing this with their 'super upgradeable' G5s)


A Mac Pro with updated desktop graphics is faster than an iMac to complete the tasks needed to get a file to the rendering stage. Otherwise why not just use a Mini and render on some cheap windows boxes? Do you really not understand this???

Here's a cool aspect of PCIe slots that actually costs more than the Tube: those who desire can always work with the latest GPUs. For some specific needs this saves time and time is money. Or it enables tasks that could not be done without the upgraded GPUs.

Furthermore, if Apple went back to a Mac Pro tower design, then users like you could upgrade every three years and never have to look at the inside of a machine. Users who want FAST GPU acceleration or lots of internal storage or whatever can also get what they like.


I don't want to spend the time working out the numbers because you will just change the subject, but suffice to say that on a theoretical Broadwell-EP Mac Pro tower, one could purchase the base machine and upgrade the GPU, CPU, RAM, and SSDs; then upgrade the GPUs with every new generation from AMD/Nvidia, and the result would be far cheaper than purchasing CTO at the Apple Store. I believe this is the true reason Apple decided on a Tube and why they only move to a new Xeon architecture every 36 months, because that is how often Intel updates their CPU sockets/chipsets (so far at least, they are now on a new cycle). The 2010 Westmere update was likely a disaster for Apple because Nehalem users could simply update their firmware and plop in new Westmere CPUs. Since then they are careful to only update the Mac Pro when a socket is on its last cycle.
 
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A Mac Pro with updated desktop graphics is faster than an iMac to complete the tasks needed to get a file to the rendering stage. Otherwise why not just use a Mini and render on some cheap windows boxes? Do you really not understand this???


i simply do not know how to get some of you all to stop and think about what you're saying.

do i understand this? yes, of course i do.. i'm talking about things i do every single day..
you're stating things like "A Mac Pro with updated desktop graphics is faster than an iMac to complete the tasks needed to get a file to the rendering stage."

...and believing your words as if they're based on anything but reality is, you don't even do any of this stuff.

so, what will it take for you to think "hmm.. i don't actually do this stuff so i should quit using it for examples of why such&such computer is better for such&such workflow"



then users like you could upgrade every three years and never have to look at the inside of a machine.
again.. you're saying things that have no basis in reality.

i don't replace computers every three years.. i've never stated i have nor given any reason to imply i do..
so why say this type of stuff??

Since then they are careful to only update the Mac Pro when a socket is on its last cycle.
huh?
again.
where in the freak do you get this info from?
you're just making stuff up.
 
i simply do not know how to get some of you all to stop and think about what you're saying.

do i understand this? yes, of course i do.. i'm talking about things i do every single day..
you're stating things like "A Mac Pro with updated desktop graphics is faster than an iMac to complete the tasks needed to get a file to the rendering stage."

...and believing your words as if they're based on anything but reality is, you don't even do any of this stuff.

so, what will it take for you to think "hmm.. i don't actually do this stuff so i should quit using it for examples of why such&such computer is better for such&such workflow"




again.. you're saying things that have no basis in reality.

i don't replace computers every three years.. i've never stated i have nor given any reason to imply i do..
so why say this type of stuff??


huh?
again.
where in the freak do you get this info from?
you're just making stuff up.


You really need to read up on this stuff. Westmere is socket compatible with Nehalem. Ivy Bridge Xeon is socket compatible with Sandy Bridge Xeon. Broadwell Xeon is socket compatible with Haswell Xeon. It's related to Intel's now defunct tick tock cycle.

If a Mac Pro is no faster for your workflow then I have difficulty understanding why you would use one at all. Why not use an iMac or MacBook Pro? What do you actually need on a Mac Pro? Think of the money and electricity you could save.

What most perplexes me most is why you would care so much that others cannot have the Mac Pro they want. If Apple did release a new tower Mac Pro, how would that affect what you do, other than save you money on the extra GPU you don't need? You sound as if it would cramp your style to use a Mac that is more expandable and upgradable than a Tube.
 
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You really need to read up on this stuff. Westmere is socket compatible with Nehalem. Ivy Bridge Xeon is socket compatible with Sandy Bridge Xeon. Broadwell Xeon is socket compatible with Haswell Xeon. It's part of Intel's now defunct tick tock cycle.

If a Mac Pro is no faster for your workflow then I have difficulty understanding why you would use one at all. Why not use an iMac or MacBook Pro? What do you actually need on a Mac Pro? Think of the money and electricity you could save.

What most perplexes me most is why you would care so much that others cannot have the Mac Pro they want. If Apple did release a new tower Mac Pro, how would that affect what you do, other than save you money on the extra GPU you don't need? You sound as if it would cramp your style to use a Mac that is more expandable and upgradable than a Tube.
F5 does have an Imac, not an MP6,1.
 
What most perplexes me most is why you would care so much that others cannot have the Mac Pro they want.
that others can't have the mac pro they want has nothing to do with me..

but i don't care if other people want apple to make a computer they're not.. completely fine by me and wish it all you want.. that's not my issue.
my issue is that instead of saying the truth "i want apple to build a computer like this" , and leave it at that... the reasonings usually given are completely off the mark..

"apple needs to build a computer like this for pros, and creatives, and rendering, and power users" etcetc.

i'm all of those things.. so when people start using these things and inaccurate examples of usages in arguments against me, i'm almost certainly going to be like "uh, no.. it doesn't work like that".

why not just talk about the stuff you know about? do you feel if you just stated truthfully your usages, your arguments would sound weaker or something?
because if so, fear not.. "apple should build this ________ computer that i want because i want it" is a much stronger argument than "apple should build this __________ because (some made up supposedly real life usage case that's simply not accurate)"


or hey, maybe i'm doing the same thing here and making incorrect assumptions..
what, exactly, do you use computers for?


If Apple did release a new tower Mac Pro, how would that affect what you do, other than save you money on the extra GPU you don't need?

it wouldn't affect me at all.
that said, if apple started being all geeky and tinkery with their computers while focusing less on productivity and usability, i'd potentially be looking outside the mac ecosystem for my computing needs.

You sound as if it would cramp your style to use a Mac that is more expandable and upgradable than a Tube.
yeah. it would.
 
I'm glad you're here to tell us what we do with our computers instead of allowing us to do what we do with our computers.
i'm constantly asking people about their usages and software and whatnot.
nobody ever answers.

what do you use computers for?
what are your primary applications?
can you share any examples of your work?
 
F5 does have an Imac, not an MP6,1.
Interesting. As such I'm surprised he's arguing in favor of having a Mac Pro at all. As his needs are met by an iMac everyone else's needs should too.
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i'm constantly asking people about their usages and software and whatnot.
nobody ever answers.

what do you use computers for?
what are your primary applications?
can you share any examples of your work?
They answer however you just dismiss their answers and make statements that they don't do any of this stuff. One can only beat their head against the wall so many times before they stop answering you.
 
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what do you use computers for?
Collecting, creating and watching gay porn.

what are your primary applications?
VLC, Photo Viewer and Visual Studio - and some really exciting VR apps that I'm under NDA for.

can you share any examples of your work?
Just do a web search for "Aiden Shaw"

_____

Seriously, though - this is just more of your passive-aggressive "you don't need that" attitude. You'll tell me that an Imac can collect a huge porn library (when in fact storing dozens of tebibytes on an Imac is either an exercise in frustration or an exercise in emptying your wallet).

The "IMac Porn Studio" turns out to be a Prius with four trailers daisy-chained together. Some for the "Mac Pro Porn Studio", except that you need to spend a lot more and still buy a monitor, keyboard and rodent.
 
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Interesting. As such I'm surprised he's arguing in favor of having a Mac Pro at all. As his needs are met by an iMac everyone else's needs should too.

i use an imac because it's fast.. like- it's the fastest mac ever to be made by apple for most (by far) computing tasks..

some of the things i like about the mac pro happen even moreso with an imac.. 6,1 is neat because it's small and off the floor and relatively unobtrusive.. imac is that to a greater extent.. it's more like a laptop in these regards.. there is no separate computing module to be seen.. most connections are happening wirelessly be it network/clustering, backups (local & cloud), archival storage(local & cloud), cloud drives (current work/application&pref sync), render farm.. for me, none of that stuff requires hardware within the vicinity of the workspace so i don't have it in my workspace..

and for about the 50th time-- i'm not arguing in favor of having a mac pro.
i have about zero reason to care whether or not you want or hate nmp..

i'm arguing against your argument.. if you say, "nmp sux because ......", i don't care about the first two words.. i argue what you say after the 'because'.. the bad logic and the inaccurate examples of real world usage.


They answer however you just dismiss their answers and make statements that they don't do any of this stuff. One can only beat their head against the wall so many times before they stop answering you.
:rolleyes:

like i said earlier ..


i'm constantly asking people about their usages and software and whatnot.
nobody ever answers.

.
 
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They have answered. You've just dismissed their answers. Thus no one bothers to answer you anymore.
i'm glad this forum has such long term members such as yourself that will certainly remember all the times these people have answered me followed by me dismissing their answers..
:rollseyesagain:

unless you've lurked here for years or unless you're mvc in disguise, i've nothing to conclude other than you're simply making crap up then believing yourself.
 
i'm glad this forum has such long term members such as yourself that will certainly remember all the times these people have answered me followed by me dismissing their answers..
:rollseyesagain:

unless you've lurked here for years or unless you're mvc in disguise, i've nothing to conclude other than you're simply making crap up then believing yourself.
I'm sure that ITguy2016 is truly a professional - he even bought a keyboard with a working "shift" key.
 
i'm glad this forum has such long term members such as yourself that will certainly remember all the times these people have answered me followed by me dismissing their answers..
:rollseyesagain:

unless you've lurked here for years or unless you're mvc in disguise, i've nothing to conclude other than you're simply making crap up then believing yourself.
Well that didn't take long:

https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...ven-up-on-the-mp.1980223/page-6#post-23081506
 
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