Has Apple finally given up on the MP?

[Hank Carter]

I was in charge of the hardware for a mid-sized design and video production shop from 2010 into 2015.

and as you mentioned, "18 core beasts". the needs of 3D/CG work (Max, Maya, Nuke...) has been out of the reach of Apple for some time now, especially when you want to build a render farm*. so yeah, I've been expecting the wholesale industry changeover to Windows for some time now. but people (myself included) are keeping those old Mac Pros (and even a few trash cans) on their desks, waiting and hoping. I guess we all find out by years end whether Apple cares as much as we do. it's a shame no journalist, columnist, blogger... that gets access to Apple's executive team will ask that one simple question re. the Mac Pro, what do they expect people to do?

* before anyone returns with, you can build a Mac Pro render farm... yes. but it's a terrible waste of space and money. and only very recently has any sort of final rendering taken advantage of GPU processing (and still a limited case tool), and then usually with Nvidia hardware. so the included GPUs are just a waste of money and electricity. the last render system I set up put 160 real cores and 512GB of RAM (across 8 systems) in 4U of rack space. just over $50K custom built. to get that much potential with Mac Pros, using the 12 core and racking it. At least double the cost and 7 times the real estate. no thanks.

We work in the same field.

I agree. No one in their right mind would consider building a render farm with Macs. Building a Mac based farm has never really been a realistic option. Ever. Apple simply never made an appropriate machine, including the Xserve. At best you see Mac's on the desktop talking to a server room filled with Linux or Windows blades. And with the rise of GPU rending the Mac is even less of an option. It's not uncommon to see dual or quad processor Xeon based Supermicro based servers stuffed with 8 or more Nvidia cards. Apple isn't even part of the conversation.

The closest I know of are a few small farms made with quad core i7 Mac Mini's. But I'm talking anywhere from 4 - 20 machines and they are used for things like AfterFX. They are in small shops or owned by individuals who are not technicians and just wanted something even they could maintain themselves, even it it was a more expensive option.

We saw an uptick with the cMP boxes a few years ago as workstations, but the nMP has not enjoyed anywhere near the same popularity. Editors bought the nMP, as did a lot of sound engineers, but they are nowhere as common as the cMP was. One post house i know of put considerable money into upgrading their 'ancient' cMP boxes rather than buying the nMP. Aside from the nMP being a dead end in terms of upgradeability, heat related GPU failure has been a common problem with the nMP and no one wants the aggravation or expense.

 

[flat five]

I'm sure that ITguy2016 is truly a professional - he even bought a keyboard with a working "shift" key.

i write python at times.. capitalization is important there.
here in the backwoods interwebz? not so much.
[doublepost=1467594517][/doublepost]

Well that didn't take long:

https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...ven-up-on-the-mp.1980223/page-6#post-23081506

if you click on my username, you'll see an option 'ignore'..
use that method if you wish..

probably better than your current trend of coming into a discussion out of nowhere with a stab at me, get told off, then play victim of "omg.. i can't bear this discussing any longer.. i'm above it"

just do software controlled ignore instead.

 

[ITguy2016]

i write python at times.. capitalization is important there.
here in the backwoods interwebz? not so much.
[doublepost=1467594517][/doublepost]
if you click on my username, you'll see an option 'ignore'..
use that method if you wish..

probably better than your current trend of coming into a discussion out of nowhere with a stab at me, get told off, then play victim of "omg.. i can't bear this discussing any longer.. i'm above it"

just do software controlled ignore instead.

Others call that attempting to have a discussion.

 

[flat five]

Others call that attempting to have a discussion.

hey man, if your 'attempt at discussion' is entering with some piece of sarcastic remark ala:
"I'm glad you're here to tell us what we do with our computers instead of allowing us to do what we do with our computers."

...be fully aware you're likely to get similar in return.
there's no way you don't already know this.
there's just a blocked passage in there preventing "oh.. right.. of course that's what i should expect".
unblock it.

 

[ITguy2016]

hey man, if your 'attempt at discussion' is entering with some piece of sarcastic remark ala:
"I'm glad you're here to tell us what we do with our computers instead of allowing us to do what we do with our computers."

...be fully aware you're likely to get similar in return.
there's no way you don't already know this.
there's just a blocked passage in there preventing "oh.. right.. of course that's what i should expect".
unblock it.

Is that not what you're doing?

 

[AidenShaw]

Is that not what you're doing?

You should have stuck with "ignore"....

But not "ignore" in the forum settings sense - but "ignore" in the sense of reading F5's posts and not responding.

My forum "ignore list" is empty, but for some people I skip to the next post when I see the name.

For other people, I'll read the post and usually think "still clueless", but not worth a response.

Occasionally, when the post is patently absurd, I'll reply. This thread hit the absurdity threshold.

 

[ITguy2016]

You should have stuck with "ignore"....

But not "ignore" in the forum settings sense - but "ignore" in the sense of reading F5's posts and not responding.

You're right. He has this knack for sucking me in.

 

[flat five]

Is that not what you're doing?

no.. or, not in this particular case at least.
this is opposite of what you're saying.

i was telling dude what he doesn't do with his computers (which happen to be the things i do with mine).. so he shouldn't use those cases as examples (especially if they're inaccurate examples)...and instead, he should talk about the things he does do.

that you all seem to think this is some sort of crazy request is beyond me.

 

[AidenShaw]

You're right. He has this knack for sucking me in.

And note that how good F5 has been at not responding to my recent posts in this thread. We should follow his example.

 

[flat five]

i'm going to respond to ones of those from a little earlier.. i already had some typed up but i deleted it by accident when responding to something else.

 

[AidenShaw]

i'm going to respond to ones of those from a little earlier.. i already had some typed up but i deleted it by accident when responding to something else.

We've heard these excuses before....

http://www.nytimes.com/politics/fir...ece-for-declining-to-disavow-david-duke/?_r=0

 

[rGiskard]

that said, if apple started being all geeky and tinkery with their computers while focusing less on productivity and usability, i'd potentially be looking outside the mac ecosystem for my computing needs.

It's this sort of comment that makes me wonder if you really use your iMac for anything but office work.

"geeky"? I suspect you really are afraid of PCIe slots. They're not "geeky" man, they're in freakin' office cubical computers. In fact that's where that silly stat you see all over about "99% of PCIe slots are never used". Dell sells a crap ton of boxes every year for office usage that contain PCIe slots.

"Focusing less on productivity and usability"? Do you even use Mac hardware? Because style comes before usability on every damn computer Apple sells and it directly impacts the iMacs usability and productivity. How do you like plugging flash drives into your iMac or using it's internal SD card reader? And the silly laptop GPU, have you ever noticed how much it throttles back? Yeah, because it's more important to Apple for the iMac to be thin than it is to properly cook the laptop components inside.

"Productivity"? That's the most bizarre argument against a cMP-type design I've ever heard.

It's rather hard to take you at face value. Please change your screen name to "Flat Earther" so we all know what to expect from you.

 

[flat five]

We've heard these excuses before....

http://www.nytimes.com/politics/fir...ece-for-declining-to-disavow-david-duke/?_r=0

lol. why do you think i'm dodging questions?
of all things i may be guilty of at these forums, dodging questions isn't one of them. i really did accidentally delete a couple paragraphs..

Seriously, though - this is just more of your passive-aggressive "you don't need that" attitude.

yeah, it is..

but i truly don't feel the gist of what i'm saying is "you don't need that" although i can understand how someone i'm arguing with could strew it into such.

my general point is that if your 'needs' are -- ability to house 4+ hard drives inside the computer, adding more gpus, dual cpu cores, 1200w psu, liquid cooling, traditional pci-e slots, etcetc.... then really, apple gives a flying duck about your needs..
people like to say "apple doesn't care about pros(et.al)".. what they're really saying is "apple doesn't care about my needs".. and they're right.. they don't care.. and thankfully so tbh.

apple is the hardware builder.. not you.. or, not you if you're in the market for a mac.

they don't need you telling them how to build things.. what they're interested in as far as customer needs are more like "i need a computer that will run computer aided design programs well... i need a computer that runs smoothly without many interruptions.. i need a computer that runs reliably.. i need to have easy access to my files regardless of which terminal i'm sitting at.." etcetc...

It's this sort of comment that makes me wonder if you really use your iMac for anything but office work.

"geeky"? I suspect you really are afraid of PCIe slots. They're not "geeky" man, they're in freakin' office cubical computers. In fact that's where that silly stat you see all over about "99% of PCIe slots are never used". Dell sells a crap ton of boxes every year for office usage that contain PCIe slots.

"Focusing less on productivity and usability"? Do you even use Mac hardware? Because style comes before usability on every damn computer Apple sells and it directly impacts the iMacs usability and productivity. How do you like plugging flash drives into your iMac or using it's internal SD card reader? And the silly laptop GPU, have you ever noticed how much it throttles back? Yeah, because it's more important to Apple for the iMac to be thin than it is to properly cook the laptop components inside.

"Productivity"? That's the most bizarre argument against a cMP-type design I've ever heard.

It's rather hard to take you at face value. Please change your screen name to "Flat Earther" so we all know what to expect from you.

this is pretty much exactly the kind of stuff i was saying in the previous post to aiden..
it's like you have no concept of using computers.. everything you're saying is strictly hardware related.. after a certain point, hardware is so low on the totem pole of what's important for a productive computing environment.. there are at least 25 other things of more importance.. a few of which are much more important.. but you guys don't talk about that stuff as if none of it even exists.. and instead, place far (!) too much importance on hardware in these arguments as if it's some sort of make or break item.. which it's not.. not in the real world at least.

also,
'productivity' and 'usability' are mostly software things.. not hardware..

 

[linuxcooldude]

Here's a cool aspect of PCIe slots that actually costs more than the Tube: those who desire can always work with the latest GPUs

I don't want to spend the time working out the numbers because you will just change the subject, but suffice to say that on a theoretical Broadwell-EP Mac Pro tower, one could purchase the base machine and upgrade the GPU, CPU, RAM, and SSDs; then upgrade the GPUs with every new generation from AMD/Nvidia

Not without compromises, at least when Nvidia is used. Non-functioning display when doing system/security updates using web drivers. Upgrades for newer OSes is a problem until new drivers come available. No boot screen without flashing firmware ( If ones available ) Making dual booting / recovery harder. Sometimes multiple displays would only work on one.

 

[antonis]

So I have yet to experience this.

I will not test it by stressing a production machine.

Good to know that I have greater stress, sound and heat bandwidth.

➰

Yes, to be fair, I never experienced any trouble running it under high stress (in a warm room, also) even when the fan kicked in wildly. It seemed to handle all this very well, excluding the increased noise.

 

[robeddie]

If apple started being all geeky and tinkery with their computers while focusing less on productivity and usability, i'd potentially be looking outside the mac ecosystem for my computing needs.

yeah. it would.

Did you just wake up from your long nap? Many have argued compellingly (including Marco Armant and John Siracusa) that if anything Apple has dropped the ball more than ever lately when it comes to usability.
The old Apple had not only usable software, but also elegant computers that were easier to upgrade and/or 'tinker' with.

So your straw argument that if Apple somewhow went back to that, it would result in total chaos? (Or whatever problems you imagine that would cause - who knows with you) Let's just say I've got a great avatar for you:


[doublepost=1467636422][/doublepost]

Collecting, creating and watching gay porn.


VLC, Photo Viewer and Visual Studio - and some really exciting VR apps that I'm under NDA for.


Just do a web search for "Aiden Shaw"

_____

Seriously, though - this is just more of your passive-aggressive "you don't need that" attitude. You'll tell me that an Imac can collect a huge porn library (when in fact storing dozens of tebibytes on an Imac is either an exercise in frustration or an exercise in emptying your wallet).

The "IMac Porn Studio" turns out to be a Prius with four trailers daisy-chained together. Some for the "Mac Pro Porn Studio", except that you need to spend a lot more and still buy a monitor, keyboard and rodent.

Wait, I did the search, are you seriously THAT Aiden Shaw? That's pretty hilarious. I figured you were joking about the porn stuff.

 

[flat five]

Did you just wake up from your long nap?

heh, funny you should say that because yes, i did just wake up from a long nap.

Many have argued compellingly (including Marco Armant and John Siracusa) that if anything Apple has dropped the ball more than ever lately when it comes to usability.
The old Apple had not only usable software, but also elegant computers that were easier to upgrade and/or 'tinker' with.

just so we're clear.. maybe someone somewhere has made a compelling argument that apple has dropped the ball regarding usability.. but you've certainly not done so.
i mean, you've left zilch for anyone to argue back to.. these are empty statements.
unless you expect me to go listen to some 2hr long podcast in order to reply to you regarding usability.

So your straw argument that if Apple somewhow went back to that, it would result in total chaos? (Or whatever problems you imagine that would cause - who knows with you)

great when someone accuses another of posing a strawman argument when it's really they themselves are doing this.

if you have any questions or points of your own that have anything to do with what i'm actually saying then ask away.. otherwise.. meh.

Let's just say I've got a great avatar for you:

cool.. thanks

 

[sigmadog]

Yeah. I think we've said all that can be said in this thread. It's probably going to be shut down soon as the bickering is getting boringly annoying.

 

[rockyromero]

Yeah. I think we've said all that can be said in this thread. It's probably going to be shut down soon as the bickering is getting boringly annoying.

Not so fast.

I'm learning about this techie language and unique sense of humor.

I'll have to adapt sooner or later.

Especially while waiting for news from the great above.

➰

 

[pat500000]

Yeah. I think we've said all that can be said in this thread. It's probably going to be shut down soon as the bickering is getting boringly annoying.

Hasn't it been like this for long time?

 

[MH01]

Classic bickering here...I bet the same individuals will still be around.....debating...years after the Mac Pro is discontinued lol.

But hey....three years between updates...or doom and gloom of termination, the natives get restless.

So back on topic, is the Mac Pro dead? I'm going with gone, and the Thunderbolt Display is the first sign.

 

[Melodist]

The biggest favor Apple can do us now is to remove the Mac Pro from their website and officially state that it is no longer supported, since Apple has reset their focus to the average consumer and phone market. If they can't please the majority of their pro customers anyways, then they should simply drop the Mac Pro and come clean. It is no use to everybody if they drag it around like a carcass that's been rotting for already 3 years.

 

[BB8]

people like to say "apple doesn't care about pros(et.al)".. what they're really saying is "apple doesn't care about my needs".. and they're right.. they don't care.. and thankfully so tbh.

Has it occurred to you the reason people feel that way is because Apple continues to service the needs of fewer and fewer people?

 

[flat five]

Has it occurred to you the reason people feel that way is because Apple continues to service the needs of fewer and fewer people?

pretty sure for every one person going "apple no longer builds computers i like", there are two moving to apple.. market reports show this to be plausible.

also, i'm not sure how long you've been computing but there was never a time when most of the internet hasn't been saying this same exact thing.. like i could go to any day in the history of mac and someone most definitely said "apple doesn't care about ______"

like- i'm sorry you feel the way you do but hey, at least you're in the majority now.

---
that aside, out of curiosity.. what needs of yours are no longer being serviced by apple?

 

[AidenShaw]

Wait, I did the search, are you seriously THAT Aiden Shaw? That's pretty hilarious. I figured you were joking about the porn stuff.

No - but I chose the handle so that if someone Yahoo!'d for my screen name they might learn something new....

I joke about porn, unlike the large number of people who pretend that it's never popped up on their systems and can't explain where all those big files came from.... (I wonder how many of the people complaining about the tiny SSDs on Apple gear have filled them with work files, or with NSFW files...).

Porn drives consumer electronics, and I hope that you don't think that the VR stuff is aimed at people remodeling their kitchens....