I do not want macOS on iPad. Ever.

[Alameda]

According to the fans of apps like LumaFusion it gets pretty close to doing it just as well. It tends to be fans of the Mac (rather than iPad fans) who are most upset with the iPad and want it to work identically when there is no reason to expect a touch-first UI to have the same design considerations as a mouse and keyboard first UI.

Note: I am on record here outlining countless ways iPadOS should be improved, but none of them are by bringing macOS to it.

I don’t know what those people do, and if they’re happy, I’m glad for them.

But I shoot 500 to 1,000 45 megapixel RAW files at a time. I dump them to the computer, sometimes separate them into several folders, then bring them up in a thumbnail browser to cull through them. Once I find a keeper, I adjust its white balance, which takes a while, then its exposure (highlights, shadows, etc.), saturation/colors, then I assign noise reduction filtering, crop it, adjust rotation if needed, do local adjustments if needed, watermark, and output to a chosen directory as a JPEG or as a scaled jpeg. Doesn’t work well on iPad.

 

[Arctic Moose]

The iPad is a post-PC device.

Setting aside for a moment what Steve actually intended, what does "post-PC" even mean?

I mean, post-horse makes sense. There was a time when you would choose the horse over the car if you needed to get somewhere quickly or reliably. Since then, infrastructure has improved, cars have improved and nobody needs or prefers a horse for anything except sport, hobby or extremely specialized tasks.

If there is a post-PC era it is certainly not now.

The Mac has consistently represented a larger portion of Apple's revenue than the iPad for a decade. There are still major engineering, app development, audio and finance tasks that simply cannot be performed on an iPad in any reasonable way.

For the iPad to usher in such an era it either needs to be allowed to handle the tasks that users want or need to perform, or the desire to perform those tasks must go away for the vast majority of users.

Some of these flaws, such as the availability of specific widely used accounting software, is "only" a matter of app development. The fact that these have still not been ported, 14 years after the iPad launch, is proof enough that we are not in a post-PC era. Other flaws are the result of hardware limitations or artificial software limitations that Apple has chosen not to prioritize for whatever reason.

I challenge you to name a single company with more than 1000 employees where you are issued an iPad instead of a laptop when you join.

 

[stinksroundhere]

Setting aside for a moment what Steve actually intended, what does "post-PC" even mean?

Reducing complication and creating a device that approximates a notepad or a book that people can use without thinking about it. This is why iPads completely crushed the Android and Surface competition and always will.

It's not broken. There's nothing to fix. A couple of bells and whistles more doesn't require a radical overhaul of a winning formula.

 

[Arctic Moose]

It's not broken. There's nothing to fix.

While this may be true (although I disagree) it certainly does not qualify the iPad to represent anything even remotely approximating a "post-PC era".

Even Apple realized this now, and PC versus tablet sales figures confirms it.

iPad Marketing VP: iPad and Mac are Complementary Devices, Not Competing Devices

For her review of the new M4 iPad Pro, The Wall Street Journal's Joanna Stern spoke with Tom Boger, Apple's vice president of iPad and Mac...

www.macrumors.com

The real "car" in the the post-horse analogy is of course the phone, not the tablet. However, the PC is not a horse, it is the pickup, minivan, truck and bus. (I.e. still relevant, useful and necessary.) The iPad is at best a scooter.

 

[Alameda]

Setting aside for a moment what Steve actually intended, what does "post-PC" even mean?

I mean, post-horse makes sense. There was a time when you would choose the horse over the car if you needed to get somewhere quickly or reliably. Since then, infrastructure has improved, cars have improved and nobody needs or prefers a horse for anything except sport, hobby or extremely specialized tasks.

If there is a post-PC era it is certainly not now.

The Mac has consistently represented a larger portion of Apple's revenue than the iPad for a decade. There are still major engineering, app development, audio and finance tasks that simply cannot be performed on an iPad in any reasonable way.

For the iPad to usher in such an era it either needs to be allowed to handle the tasks that users want or need to perform, or the desire to perform those tasks must go away for the vast majority of users.

Some of these flaws, such as the availability of specific widely used accounting software, is "only" a matter of app development. The fact that these have still not been ported, 14 years after the iPad launch, is proof enough that we are not in a post-PC era. Other flaws are the result of hardware limitations or artificial software limitations that Apple has chosen not to prioritize for whatever reason.

I challenge you to name a single company with more than 1000 employees where you are issued an iPad instead of a laptop when you join.

It’s not the lack of major engineering and app development capability that’s holding the iPad back from widespread support. It’s the lack of iPad being able to perform basic business productivity tasks.

I remember when we transitioned from desktop to laptop PC’s. They talked for years about “desktop replacement in the enterprise,” and how “power users” would always need a desktop. There was no-one in charge who decided to software cripple laptop computers.

An iPad that has a keyboard, mouse, and the same CPU/Memory/Price as a MacBook shouldn’t be OS-crippled into having less capable web browsers, word processors, and file management.

 

[bcortens]

While this may be true (although I disagree) it certainly does not qualify the iPad to represent anything even remotely approximating a "post-PC era".

Even Apple realized this now, and PC versus tablet sales figures confirms it.

iPad Marketing VP: iPad and Mac are Complementary Devices, Not Competing Devices

For her review of the new M4 iPad Pro, The Wall Street Journal's Joanna Stern spoke with Tom Boger, Apple's vice president of iPad and Mac...

www.macrumors.com

The real "car" in the the post-horse analogy is of course the phone, not the tablet. However, the PC is not a horse, it is the pickup, minivan, truck and bus. (I.e. still relevant, useful and necessary.) The iPad is at best a scooter.

This quote is just sad. They really are so scared of cannibalizing themselves in the Tim Cook era that they cannot allow themselves to even speak of making the iPad better.

 

[Alameda]

This quote is just sad. They really are so scared of cannibalizing themselves in the Tim Cook era that they cannot allow themselves to even speak of making the iPad better.

You know who else did dumb stuff like that? IBM.

Long ago, IBM made a personal computer. It was a smash hit. Then, their supplier Intel showed them the upcoming 80286 processor. It was WAY faster. But IBM said NO, we don’t want our PC to cannibalize our minicomputer products.

So along came Compaq, who formed to create the first clone of the PC, using the new 80286 processor. And this was the beginning of IBM’s fall as a hardware manufacturer. IBM literally let their competitor appear in the market with a vastly faster product. Pretty dumb move, huh? Cripple your own products so that competitors can walk all over you?

And why do it, when iPad Pros will cost more than MacBook Air’s next year?

 

[Portavoz]

Totally agree. It’s the Mac users who seem to think shoving macOS onto our iPads that will suddenly make them love iPad. iPad is perfect for the people using it. Power users have lots of mobile laptop options. It makes no sense shoehorning a pointer interface OS onto a touch-first device. Windows 8 demonstrated why perfectly.

"iPad is perfect for the people using it." really??? I use iPadOS everyday for hours and it is not perfect. Not. even. close.

 

[Portavoz]

Anyone who has an interest in this thread should read this article:

Not an iPad Pro Review: Why iPadOS Still Doesn’t Get the Basics Right

Let me cut to the chase: sadly, I don’t have a new iPad Pro to review today on MacStories. I was able to try one in London last week, and, as I wrote, I came away impressed with the hardware. However, I didn’t get a chance to use a new iPad Pro over the past

www.macstories.net

It is a very in depth review of what is wrong with iPadOS and he's not asking for MacOS on iPad.
I am personally so tired of the stock "you should buy a Mac then" response from all the iPadOS apologists like every missing feature or poorly implemented functionality makes me a "power user" who picked the wrong device.

 

[bcortens]

Anyone who has an interest in this thread should read this article:

Not an iPad Pro Review: Why iPadOS Still Doesn’t Get the Basics Right

Let me cut to the chase: sadly, I don’t have a new iPad Pro to review today on MacStories. I was able to try one in London last week, and, as I wrote, I came away impressed with the hardware. However, I didn’t get a chance to use a new iPad Pro over the past

www.macstories.net

It is a very in depth review of what is wrong with iPadOS and he's not asking for MacOS on iPad.
I am personally so tired of the stock "you should buy a Mac then" response from all the iPadOS apologists like every missing feature or poorly implemented functionality makes me a "power user" who picked the wrong device.

Most of us who respond with - just buy a Mac, are doing so to those who are arguing for some sort of dual mode macOS iPadOS hybrid. I am happy to highlight the flaws of iPad os and want creators to really push Apple to make things better. However many people respond with justifications for why improving iPadOS is impossible so they should just give us macOS.

 

[Arctic Moose]

It’s the lack of iPad being able to perform basic business productivity tasks.

I will definitely not argue with you there, although I can typically get most basic tasks done on an iPad somehow, even though it feels like doing it with one hand tied behind my back and a thick glove on the other one compared to using a Mac.

But hey, I hear iPadOS is getting a calculator app this year! 👍

 

[kkee]

Really? Which <11" laptop with a detachable keyboard can I run macOS on?



Why? Those that are happy with iPadOS now wouldn't even need to know the option exists.

Those of us that want a truly mobile macOS experience could have it, without the need for any new hardware.

(I'd be fully content with macOS virtualized on top of iPadOS though.)

I agree with OP, and so are here possible solutions:
1. Improve iPadOS to have full MacOS capabilities but retain the UI/UX
2. Hybrid OS
3. Virtualisation

In each cases, iPad still retain its UI/UX (in case of 3 it will compartment virtualisation on top of iPadOS base). Never never install full MacOS on iPad as base OS.

 

[Portavoz]

Most of us who respond with - just buy a Mac, are doing so to those who are arguing for some sort of dual mode macOS iPadOS hybrid. I am happy to highlight the flaws of iPad os and want creators to really push Apple to make things better. However many people respond with justifications for why improving iPadOS is impossible so they should just give us macOS

I just want to carry a single device and Apple seems to be really resistant to the 4 ways I could accomplish this.

Option 1: Allow iPad to Dual boot to MacOS (touch screen disabled) when needed - this doesn't impact the average iPad user who doesn't need it or want it, nor does it "ruin" iPadOS. Apple will NEVER do this for many good reasons so I accept this - its a non option

Option 2: Improve iPadOS so that it covers all my workflows. This is subjective since every ones workflows are different. and for many iPad is already the only device they need. iPadOS is s-l-o-w-l-y getting better but not at a pace that will accomplish this for me anytime soon. I'm not only talking about "power user" things like improving file handling. iPadOS still can't do dead simple things like let me watch a YouTube video muted while listening to Spotify. It also can't even create a smart playlist. These are not power user things and yet you still have to reach for a Mac to do both.

Option 3: Re-enabled Hypervisor support that was blocked with iPadOS 16.4. and allow Parallels to publish an iPadOS version on the App Store. This would allow folks to run a VM of Windows or MacOS or whatever other OS they felt they needed. This doesn't cannibalize sales as directly as #1 would, and it wouldn't require Apple to support MacOS on iPad directly (though they did likely cooperate with Parallels to support MacOS guest VM on MacOS host). We have seen an about face with Apple now allowing retro emulators on the App Store, maybe they will extend that virtualization. This option would make Apple money by getting 30% of the Parallels sales on the App Store.

Option 4: Add touch capability to the MacBook Air and allow for detachable or foldable keyboard. This is kinda the reverse options where I ditch the iPad and the Mac evolves to let me do my leisure activities in bed, the sofa, wherever without having a keyboard stuck in my face. I do believe that touch will come to MacOS in some capability with folding devices and maybe just maybe the "forever clamshell" form factor of the Mac will come to an end. A Mac with the flexibility of something like the Surface Pro would also get me to a single device. I believe this could be done and co-exist with the tradition mouse input without harming MacOS.

 

[Alameda]

A person who says 'Stuff I could do with MS-DOS in 1986 is difficult for the iPad.' is not being honest and has no credibility.



This has nothing to do with the operating system. The developers of those apps can make a carbon copy of their desktop apps but have chosen to prioritise touch. Adobe still doesn't support the Pencil hover's brush preview feature.

Dude, with MS-DOS I could do wildcard searches and copy, move and delete files in batches. My Files App can’t do that.

 

[richard371]

The problem I see lately is apple is releasing iPad hardware that’s rivaling high end Mac’s. Something has to give. I don’t want Mac OS to run on my 13” 16gb m4 ipad but I’d love to be able to run more Mac apps and not scaled down mobile crap.

 

[Arctic Moose]

Dude, with MS-DOS I could do wildcard searches and copy, move and delete files in batches. My Files App can’t do that.

It's not a first-party solution, and of course you need to determine if the potential security implications are acceptable, but you can use i$H and simply create a directory (for example "idrive") and then run:

mount -t ios . idrive

In the resulting file picker, simply choose the directory you want access to for operations.

Now you can use your shell of choice, grep, awk, sed or whatever to do whatever.

 

[FeliApple]

The amount of people who should buy a Mac (and sell the iPad) instead of obliterating the iPad is an extreme minority of the iPad user base... but damn if it isn’t loud.

 

[Alameda]

The problem I see lately is apple is releasing iPad hardware that’s rivaling high end Mac’s. Something has to give. I don’t want Mac OS to run on my 13” 16gb m4 ipad but I’d love to be able to run more Mac apps and not scaled down mobile crap.

New iPad Pro costs significantly more than the midrange laptops, yet does substantially less.

 

[Arctic Moose]

The amount of people who should buy a Mac (and sell the iPad) instead of obliterating the iPad is an extreme minority of the iPad user base... but damn if it isn’t loud.

Majority of iPad users don't need MacOS

You're both entirely missing the point. I'd bet a significant amount of money that for practically everyone asking for macOS or macOS-like capabilities on an iPad the following two statements are true. They use and enjoy iPad-only features on the iPad, and do not wish to give these up. They...

forums.macrumors.com

 

[Iwavvns]

It seems to me that macOS has become less like macOS and more like iPad/iPhone OS all the time. So, don't worry.. eventually you won't even have macOS on a Mac anymore. I remember Mavericks, it was beautiful but now it's flat and has lots of translucency with mobile device features added all the time.

 

[Arctic Moose]

I remember Mavericks, it was beautiful but now it's flat and has lots of translucency with mobile device features added all the time.

However, just like on Mavericks, you can still:

1. Route audio as you see fit
2. Have as many windows as you wish, and place them however you want
3. Run whatever you want in the background with confidence that it will complete
4. Run Windows, Linux or whatever virtualized
5. Use clipboard managers
6. Create and view smart albums in Photos
7. Import audio files to Music
8. Create and publish iPad apps in a full-featured IDE

In fact, some things are actually improving. For example, compare the Audio Hijack installation process compared to just a few months ago. (Good luck using Audio Hijack, or anything like it, on an iPad at all.)

 

[macmus12]

So far i see it’s going in wrong direction. MacOS starts bececoming IpadOS more then other way around.
System preferances, stage manager, or freaking usless wigets…

 

[macmus12]

The problem I see lately is apple is releasing iPad hardware that’s rivaling high end Mac’s. Something has to give. I don’t want Mac OS to run on my 13” 16gb m4 ipad but I’d love to be able to run more Mac apps and not scaled down mobile crap.

The whole ecosystem becomes a monster…

Ipad is running iphone apps which are completly not used to ipad..
Ipad is running converted macos apps, where they completly fail to use MK
MacOS starts to look more like IPADOS and lose more usability each time.
Phones will become loaded with unoptimal apps from 3rd party stores due to EU regulations.

It’s a complete mess….

 

[bill-p]

The amount of people who should buy a Mac (and sell the iPad) instead of obliterating the iPad is an extreme minority of the iPad user base... but damn if it isn’t loud.

Here’s a simpler idea to understand:

The vast majority of iPad owners actually own another “computer” of some sort. It is actually a very small minority that exclusively use the iPad and absolutely nothing else for their computing needs.

So it is the other way around: those who think the iPad is useful by itself and doesn’t need to change are the minority among all iPad users.

P.S.: in fact, look at this thread.

We, the ones saying MacOS should be on iPad so we can ditch Mac and just use iPad, are the ones who want to exclusively use just iPad and nothing else.

You, the ones telling us just go use something else for different computing scenarios, are actually proposing that iPads should not be used exclusively for all computing needs.

So just some food for thought there.

 

[FeliApple]

Here’s a simpler idea to understand:

The vast majority of iPad owners actually own another “computer” of some sort. It is actually a very small minority that exclusively use the iPad and absolutely nothing else for their computing needs.

So it is the other way around: those who think the iPad is useful by itself and doesn’t need to change are the minority among all iPad users.

P.S.: in fact, look at this thread.

We, the ones saying MacOS should be on iPad so we can ditch Mac and just use iPad, are the ones who want to exclusively use just iPad and nothing else.

You, the ones telling us just go use something else for different computing scenarios, are actually proposing that iPads should not be used exclusively for all computing needs.

So just some food for thought there.

You have a decent point, but polls even here on MacRumors have shown that a majority of people don’t want this. The general public doesn’t use terminal. So they want this even less. If a majority of power users of MacRumors don’t want this, the general public wants it even less.

And as much as it makes for an interesting theory, it’s just that. No polls have been conducted here on MacRumors or elsewhere saying something like “if you’re an iPad-only user with no PC, do you want MacOS?” I fully admit that the answer to that would be interesting, even with the caveat that you’d find more power users on MacRumors.