I do not want macOS on iPad. Ever.

[bill-p]

You have a decent point, but polls even here on MacRumors have shown that a majority of people don’t want this. The general public doesn’t use terminal. So they want this even less. If a majority of power users of MacRumors don’t want this, the general public wants it even less.

And as much as it makes for an interesting theory, it’s just that. No polls have been conducted here on MacRumors or elsewhere saying something like “if you’re an iPad-only user with no PC, do you want MacOS?” I fully admit that the answer to that would be interesting, even with the caveat that you’d find more power users on MacRumors.

No. MacRumors is not “full of power users”. It is just simply full of very enthusiastic users of certain segments of Apple products. Some of whom are very passionate about Apple’s current plans so of course they are resistant to changes to those plans. We can see this not just on the iPad side but on all sides.

We still have threads of people asking every single year for a 12” Macbook, for instance.

So no, the demographic here doesn’t represent any typical group of Apple users. The typical Apple users are elsewhere. Apple has all of the statistics on their users.

In fact, the real reason they don’t want MacOS on the iPad is precisely because it locks Mac users into buying iPads to get their touch screen fix. Apple has even admitted that the majority of Mac users own an iPad, indirectly admitting that most of their Mac users do in fact want a touch screen of some sort.

It’s just good business for them. Make us pay for a $2000 iPad and a $5000 Macbook every year. It has worked every time for the past decade plus.

 

[FeliApple]

No. MacRumors is not “full of power users”. It is just simply full of very enthusiastic users of certain segments of Apple products. Some of whom are very passionate about Apple’s current plans so of course they are resistant to changes to those plans. We can see this not just on the iPad side but on all sides.

We still have threads of people asking every single year for a 12” Macbook, for instance.

So no, the demographic here doesn’t represent any typical group of Apple users. The typical Apple users are elsewhere. Apple has all of the statistics on their users.

In fact, the real reason they don’t want MacOS on the iPad is precisely because it locks Mac users into buying iPads to get their touch screen fix. Apple has even admitted that the majority of Mac users own an iPad, indirectly admitting that most of their Mac users do in fact want a touch screen of some sort.

It’s just good business for them. Make us pay for a $2000 iPad and a $5000 Macbook every year. It has worked every time for the past decade plus.

I’d say you have everything, but it’s skewed towards power users more than not.

Yeah, change is variable. Some people are resistant to change, some embrace it.

And I also agree Apple has no reason to give MacOS to the iPad. But that doesn’t mean I have to want it.

Most of their Mac users have iPads because they’re cool. If Mac users exclusively wanted the iPad to have MacOS, they wouldn’t buy it until it does.

Which is why I typically say “those users who say that the iPad is garbage with iPadOS should probably sell it. Why do they keep buying it?” Because it’s not that they have an iPad Air 2. They go and buy the M2 iPad Pro. And then they go and buy the M4 iPad Pro. Not so garbage after all.

 

[StoneJack]

we don't need MacOS on iPad
we need fully capable iPadOS

 

[ericwn]

The final say on this matter was concluded years ago.

The iPad is a post-PC device. Benchmarks mean nothing. Desktop operating systems are not supposed to be on tablets.

Who said this?

Steve Jobs himself.

And the unbelievable yearly growing number of iPad sales that have totally destroyed the PC are the proof for how well this went. Wait, they still sell PCs as the dominant home computing platforms?
Jobs was a good salesman. The post pc era was a nice loudmouth term back in the day when Apple still somehow seemed to believe that the iPad would become a more relevant business than the Mac. Waiting to this day of course.

 

[Alameda]

I agree with OP, and so are here possible solutions:
1. Improve iPadOS to have full MacOS capabilities but retain the UI/UX
2. Hybrid OS
3. Virtualisation

In each cases, iPad still retain its UI/UX (in case of 3 it will compartment virtualisation on top of iPadOS base). Never never install full MacOS on iPad as base OS.

What would Steve do?
No way would he have the iPad run in different “modes,” right?

What I think is that Steve would say, “We’re charging more than a MacBook and it does way less, and that’s no good.”

Under the hood, the phone, iPad and Macs run the Mach kernel and use Objective-C development tools. So it would seem possible to enable more software capabilities/features in the Pro series iPads which would enable them to function more closely to Macs in various respects, and creating a drag and drop file manager like the Finder would be a big start.

I think the MS Office apps for iPad are much less usable than the Mac versions, for example, and that’s all software related.

And I can plug my iPad into the same keyboard/mouse/monitor I use with my MacBook, but window management is far worse.

What I’m trying to say is that I believe there is a problem and that the solution is to add functionality to the iPad OS, not to switch between OS’ or emulate a second OS, etc.

 

[bcortens]

What would Steve do?
No way would he have the iPad run in different “modes,” right?

What I think is that Steve would say, “We’re charging more than a MacBook and it does way less, and that’s no good.”

Under the hood, the phone, iPad and Macs run the Mach kernel and use Objective-C development tools. So it would seem possible to enable more software capabilities/features in the Pro series iPads which would enable them to function more closely to Macs in various respects, and creating a drag and drop file manager like the Finder would be a big start.

I think the MS Office apps for iPad are much less usable than the Mac versions, for example, and that’s all software related.

And I can plug my iPad into the same keyboard/mouse/monitor I use with my MacBook, but window management is far worse.

What I’m trying to say is that I believe there is a problem and that the solution is to add functionality to the iPad OS, not to switch between OS’ or emulate a second OS, etc.

I think people keep missing that one of the things Apple really likes about iPad is how locked down it is. They don't want it opened up, as evidenced by the fact that they have fought the EU so hard to prevent side loading on iPadOS. Given that macOS would have to allow side loading to give users the benefits people here are hoping for Apple would have to rethink their approach to iPad for this to make sense.

 

[Alameda]

I think people keep missing that one of the things Apple really likes about iPad is how locked down it is. They don't want it opened up, as evidenced by the fact that they have fought the EU so hard to prevent side loading on iPadOS. Given that macOS would have to allow side loading to give users the benefits people here are hoping for Apple would have to rethink their approach to iPad for this to make sense.

I think you’re confusing things.

On the MacOS, Apple locks the system down so that you can only install apps from the App Store. Apple allows you to unlock that feature. But… I can install and run full versions of MS Office and Adobe Photoshop from the App Store, right? That’s not the locked down part that causes a problem.

I can barely manage files on an iPad. That’s not an App Store limitation. Or, the web browser, right? I can download Firefox and Chrome from the App Store on a Mac or iPad, but on iPad, those browsers are heavily limited.

Yes, limiting the system to App Store downloads only is a limitation, but it’s not the Big Problem here.

 

[bcortens]

Not one bit correct. You’re confusing things.

On the MacOS, Apple locks the system down so that you can only install apps from the App Store. Apple allows you to unlock that feature. But… I can install and run full versions of MS Office and Adobe Photoshop from the App Store, right? That’s not the locked down part that causes a problem.

I can barely manage files on an iPad. That’s not an App Store limitation. Or, the web browser, right? I can download Firefox and Chrome from the App Store on a Mac or iPad, but on iPad, those browsers are heavily limited.

Yes, limiting the system to App Store downloads only is a limitation, but it’s not the Big Problem here.

I actually have advocated extensively in this forum for improving iPadOS and I am an advocate against bringing macOS to iPads. I have highlighted similar issues to you, the files App has many issues. The App developers don't bring their full Apps and instead seem to think iPad users.

I was trying to respond to people saying that macOS on iPad was an obvious solution when Apple has obviously no interest in loosening the restrictions on iPads.

I don't want macOS on iPads because it will disincentivize developers from bringing their full apps to iPadOS. I want developers to know they should bring full apps to iPad and that's the messaging Apple should be bringing too.

 

[ThunderSkunk]

Wait. Before you start commenting that I'm stupid. Just read on...

I agree that iPadOS (in its current form) is a massive limiting factor for the iPad. But I don't think that 'just release macOS on iPad' will be the answer. MacOS is entirely designed for trackpad and keyboard use. Icons, fonts and UI elements are too small to use with touch alone

Thats lot of words to say you haven't tried Mac OS on a Wacom Cintiq touchscreen and don't think anyone else should have the option because of how you're imagining it to be.

 

[SanderEvers]

Thats lot of words to say you haven't tried Mac OS on a Wacom Cintiq touchscreen and don't think anyone else should have the option because of how you're imagining it to be.

I have a Wacom touchscreen. And my opinion is partly based on that experience. (it's bad) But mostly on touchscreen use of my Surface Pro (it's terrible) or sidecar use on iPad (it's also terrible).

 

[stinksroundhere]

And the unbelievable yearly growing number of iPad sales that have totally destroyed the PC are the proof for how well this went. Wait, they still sell PCs as the dominant home computing platforms?
Jobs was a good salesman. The post pc era was a nice loudmouth term back in the day when Apple still somehow seemed to believe that the iPad would become a more relevant business than the Mac. Waiting to this day of course.

Nobody said it would kill PCs. A post-PC device means using it as more natural replacement for notepads, drawing boards, binders, etc. Apple made a concept video around 33 years ago about the home of the future in which there were tablets, voice control, etc. I can't find it on YouTube though. Of course all that stuff was also in 2001 A Space Odyssey.

 

[Alameda]

I actually have advocated extensively in this forum for improving iPadOS and I am an advocate against bringing macOS to iPads. I have highlighted similar issues to you, the files App has many issues. The App developers don't bring their full Apps and instead seem to think iPad users.

I was trying to respond to people saying that macOS on iPad was an obvious solution when Apple has obviously no interest in loosening the restrictions on iPads.

I don't want macOS on iPads because it will disincentivize developers from bringing their full apps to iPadOS. I want developers to know they should bring full apps to iPad and that's the messaging Apple should be bringing too.

So we agree.

I haven’t done Mac development for a long time, but when I did, there was a Mach kernel that ran in iPhone, iPad and MacOS. Recompiled, but essentially the same. And then it had higher level libraries which differed between the Mac and iOS. You wrote code in Objective C for either platform, using the same Apple development kit.

So in one sense, they’ve had the same OS since Day One. And, I agree, dual booting the iPad makes no sense. Apple badly needs to open up the iPad to enable more things, like on MacOS, at least on their Pro series tablets. They should be more worried about their $800 laptop cannibalizing their $2,000 tablets, not the other way around.

 

[Arctic Moose]

If a majority of power users of MacRumors don’t want this, the general public wants it even less.

So what?

How many iPad users utilize external monitor support?

How many use Thunderbolt devices?

How many use an external mouse?

Should Apple not add features like these just because “nobody” uses them?

I fail to see why virtualization support is any different.

 

[FeliApple]

So what?

How many iPad users utilize external monitor support?

How many use Thunderbolt devices?

How many use an external mouse?

Should Apple not add features like these just because “nobody” uses them?

I fail to see why virtualization support is any different.

One obliterates the iPad. The other one adds functionality.

 

[drrich2]

I fail to see why virtualization support is any different.

You make a solid point and I tend to agree; we didn't pitch a fit over Windows virtualization under Bootcamp on Macs, so what's the big deal here?

I suspect the concern is putting MacOS on iPads would lead to enough of a user base that it would have these 'Law of Unintended Consequences' type indirect effects:

1.) iPad design going forward to shift focus to meet the needs of 'iPad MacOS' users, leading to functional compromises vs. sticking with a strict iOS-focus. In other words, notebookifying the iPad in some way.

2.) App developers might have less incentive to develop iPad apps if they already have MacOS apps, leading to a less well-supporting iOS experience.

I'm not 'voting' either way on whether these concerns rise to the level of 'banning' MacOS from iPads, but that might be the 'big deal' some people are worried about.

 

[ThunderSkunk]

I have a Wacom touchscreen. And my opinion is partly based on that experience. (it's bad) But mostly on touchscreen use of my Surface Pro (it's terrible) or sidecar use on iPad (it's also terrible).

Could it be that perhaps tablets are just not for you.

No question mark is needed at the end of that sentence.

 

[Arctic Moose]

One obliterates the iPad. The other one adds functionality.

That word you keep using doesn’t mean what you think it means.

Besides, if absolutely nobody wants it, and absolutely nobody would use it, what difference would it make?

 

[FeliApple]

That word you keep using doesn’t mean what you think it means.

Besides, if absolutely nobody wants it, and absolutely nobody would use it, what difference would it make?

A dual-boot doesn’t really sound Apple-like. I fear that the most “logical” course of action if you want that is to directly (at least on the iPad Pro) replace iPadOS with MacOS. And like I said, I disagree with that.

I still insist that this is a vocal minority that doesn’t even represent MacRumors, let alone the general public. And a very, very vocal one at that...

 

[SanderEvers]

Could it be that perhaps tablets are just not for you.

No question mark is needed at the end of that sentence.

I have had an iPad since it's first release. (currently have an iPad Pro M4 11" and Mini) And they are the most used mobile devices at home here. And I still use the Wacom pen display for its intended purpose (graphic design). But I use a mouse whenever I need to interact with the OS itself and have multitouch disabled.

So yeah, I use my devices for their intended purpose. My iPads are handheld touchscreen use, my laptop (Surface Laptop, Macbook pro) for portable PC/Mac usage, my PC / Mac Mini for stationary PC / Mac use. My iPhone as my everyday phone, mediaplayer and handheld PDA, my Nintendo Switch for games, my XBOX Series X and PS5 for games and media, my Apple TV for iTunes movies and AirPlay.

And sure I do also use an Apple Pencil Pro and Magic Keyboard on my iPad Pro. But most of the time I use the touchscreen.

I've sold my older iPads and Surface Pro. So I 1000% disagree with your notion that tablets aren't for me. I use the tablets the way they are intended by the manufacturer to be used. Maybe tablets aren't meant for you.

I made this topic because I don't want my iPad to be less useful than it currently is. I don't need another mac. I want an iPad, that's why I bought an iPad. I also want a Mac, that's why I also bought a Mac. Combining macOS and iPadOS would devalue 4 of my devices, and I would lose the real use case I have for them. That's why, I don't want macOS on my iPad. Ever.

 

[SanderEvers]

And also I feel like forcing macOS onto iPad is exactly the same as forcing iPadOS onto macs. because most apps will be dumbed down to fit the iPad screen. Because remember, the biggest iPad has the same size screen as the smallest macbook. And UI needs to be changed to allow for touch. Which means bigger text and icons, so less text and icons visible. And it would also force Apple to lock macOS down like they did with iPadOS. (within the DMA legislation)

I feel like I'm repeating myself. So I'll stop doing that. My opinion can be found in the topic start. I have yet to see an actual valid reason why macOS needs to be on the iPad. And I doubt I will ever see an actual valid reason to want it.

 

[FeliApple]

I've sold my older iPads and Surface Pro. So I 1000% disagree with your notion that tablets aren't for me. I use the tablets the way they are intended by the manufacturer to be used. Maybe tablets aren't meant for you.

I made this topic because I don't want my iPad to be less useful than it currently is. I don't need another mac. I want an iPad, that's why I bought an iPad. I also want a Mac, that's why I also bought a Mac. Combining macOS and iPadOS would devalue 4 of my devices, and I would lose the real use case I have for them. That's why, I don't want macOS on my iPad. Ever.

This. A million times this.

 

[bill-p]

I have yet to see an actual valid reason why macOS needs to be on the iPad

Because you and many other like you refuse to see any viewpoint that does not fit the narrative.

This is why there’s a saying that “everyone is entitled to their own opinions”.

But let’s have one fact: the fact that Apple is now rumored to be looking at a 20” folding Macbook (i.e.: a Macbook with a touch screen) does in fact show that Apple themselves agree with the other viewpoint, that they need to come out with a touchscreen device that runs MacOS.

The rumor was not about a folding iPad.

 

[Arctic Moose]

A dual-boot doesn’t really sound Apple-like.

V. I. R. T. U. A. L. I. Z. A. T. I. O. N.

It’s right there in the post you quoted.

(That said, Apple has released tools and drivers to support Bootcamp, so it is in fact very much Apple-like.)

minority that doesn’t even represent MacRumors

NOBODY is disputing the fact that very few people would or should use it. Just like Thunderbolt or external display support.

If YOU do not need or want to use virtualization you won’t even know it’s there, just like Stage Manager, assuming you’ve disabled that nonsense.

That is far from “obliteration” of anything, except for the need for some of us to carry multiple devices unnecessarily.

 

[SanderEvers]

Because you and many other like you refuse to see any viewpoint that does not fit the narrative.

This is why there’s a saying that “everyone is entitled to their own opinions”.

Exactly. And my opinion is that I don't want it, nor will I be buying:

But let’s have one fact: the fact that Apple is now rumored to be looking at a 20” folding Macbook (i.e.: a Macbook with a touch screen) does in fact show that Apple themselves agree with the other viewpoint, that they need to come out with a touchscreen device that runs MacOS.

Because... well.. we now already have "folding laptops" that run Windows. And honestly, they are a niche at best. And MS has been in the touchscreen desktop OS for longer than Apple. Maybe Apple comes with the perfect solution to the issue. But I woulnd't hold my breath if I were you.

The rumor was not about a folding iPad.

I never said it was. And actually, this folding Macbook would be the perfect solution to everyone who wants macOS on iPad right now. But I'm guessing it's going to be priced around the price of the Vision Pro.

So Apple doing this actually proves my point, without any doubt that macOS shouldn't be on the iPad.


also

Because you and many other like you refuse to see any viewpoint that does not fit the narrative.

Is simply untrue. There is no narrative. There are opinions based on past experiences. Maybe you should read my topic start. I explained those perfectly in there.

 

[xxFoxtail]

we don't need MacOS on iPad
we need fully capable iPadOS

All they have to do is replace Files with Finder and that’ll make half of the macOS-on-iPad people happy.