iMac 2020, 5700XT - graphical glitch?

[ADGrant]

Buy the 5700 XT because you want and need that performance now, not in the future. These 2020 iMacs are about as far from being "future proof" as a computer can be. (BTW "Future Proofing" and "Buy the Best that You Can" are mantras that make little actual sense, especially in tech.) Set aside for the moment the AIO design, the thermal limitations, the inability to upgrade. Consider that if you get one of these, in four years you will be working on system that very likely doesn't run whatever is then Apple's current OS, has been vastly eclipsed in both performance and features by Apple silicon, looks awfully dated next to the new 6K or 8K 32-inch iMac, and may no longer run the current versions of whatever applications you're using it for. Consider also that this graphical glitch may persist throughout your ownership of the machine. The issue is likely software related, but this hasn't been confirmed. Even if it is software related, there is no guarantee that Apple (or AMD) will correct this.

There are a lot of legitimate reasons for getting one of these 2020 iMacs and getting the 5700 XT, but don't get it in the expectation that you may need that graphical performance in the future. It's a such a small reward especially if you have to suffer through an unpleasant ownership experience to get there.

Actually I don't think we should set aside the AIO design. The non-upgradable AIO design is an argument for specifying everything you thing you might need over the lifetime of the computer. Also in four years I expect this Mac to still run the latest version of MacOS. The last Macs sold will be covered by Apple Care. Not supporting them with the latest version of MacOS pretty much guarantees a lawsuit. I also expect that it will continue to run the latest version of my current applications. It will also continue to be able to run software the ARM Macs will not (e.g. anything requiring Windows & Bootcamp).

I also believe that a healthy used market will exist for the higher end Intel machines because of the need to run legacy software.

The graphical glitch doesn't bother me that much. I have only seen the flashing white lines definitely once since I setup. the machine and I only notice the corner glitch if I go looking for it. I am confident that the corner glitch is a MacOS bug and it has been reported with the 5700 too (and on this thread).

 

[kkh]

I certainly hope so! But how do you know for sure that Apple is looking into this issue?

Because they called me to get information on what I was experiencing; because they requested video, screen shots, and logs; because they followed that up to request more information; and because they mentioned that they would be in touch again if they needed me to confirm anything else. And they have contacted many others regarding this. Do I know that the relevant team at Apple is looking at this right now, this very second? No, I do not. And I would not expect that. Software development does not work that way. This issue is likely in an extensive backlog from where it will be assigned a priority, it will be associated with a sprint, and people will be looking into it. Among any other issues. Some time from now, a fix -- if a fix is possible in software -- will be rolled out as a part of an overall macOS update or as a hotfix, should it receive special priority (which it won't).

 

[dspdoc]

One has to wonder how much of this is on AMD....?

 

[kkh]

I am an actual PhD clinical psychologist. As in - I make my living treating this stuff. You may not have found a treatment that works but that doesn’t mean there isn’t one. There most definitely is for OCD. Remember that anecdotes are not data.

I forgot to insert a sarcastic smiley into my post. ?

 

[KrazyKanuck]

Actually I don't think we should set aside the AIO design. The non-upgradable AIO design is an argument for specifying everything you thing you might need over the lifetime of the computer. Also in four years I expect this Mac to still run the latest version of MacOS. The last Macs sold will be covered by Apple Care. Not supporting them with the latest version of MacOS pretty much guarantees a lawsuit. I also expect that it will continue to run the latest version of my current applications. It will also continue to be able to run software the ARM Macs will not (e.g. anything requiring Windows & Bootcamp).

I also believe that a healthy used market will exist for the higher end Intel machines because of the need to run legacy software.

The graphical glitch doesn't bother me that much. I have only seen the flashing white lines definitely once since I setup. the machine and I only notice the corner glitch if I go looking for it. I am confident that the corner glitch is a MacOS bug and it has been reported with the 5700 too (and on this thread).

I think the issue with the AIO design is that it is inherently less ”future proof” then other form factors. So ”future proofing” an iMac means doing so within the limitations of the device. I do hope you're right about the longevity though. I have my re-rodered 2020 arriving today, so I'm committed to making it work for a while. Realistically, though, I cannot imagine keeping this system for more than four (maybe six) years, and I think it's going to date pretty quickly next to Apple‘s AS powered, redesigned iMacs. You make two points that I'm genuinely curious to know more about: I don't think the provision of coverage under AppleCare precludes Apple from dropping a model from OS compatibility, though. I thought it was just hardware coverage. Also, what would be some examples of legacy programs that will require these iMacs to run in a few years' time? I mean, what software won't be ported to AS silicon or run just as effectively on a PC?

 

[ADGrant]

I do hope you're right about all of this. I have my re-rodered 2020 arriving today, so I'm committed to making it work for a while. Realistically, though, I cannot imagine keeping this system for more than four years, and I think it's going to date pretty quickly. You make two points that I'm genuinely curious to know more about: I don't think the provision of coverage under AppleCare precludes Apple from dropping a model from OS compatibility, though, I thought it was just hardware coverage. Also, what would be some examples of legacy programs that will require these iMacs to run in a few years' time? I mean, what software won't be ported to AS silicon or run just as effectively on a PC?

Apple Care is not just hardware coverage, it also provides software support. That doesn't guarantee there isn't some provision excluding OS upgrades but Apple dropping OS upgrade support for Macs under Apple Care doesn't seem very likely to me. I can't think of any reason they would do that.

Software that is not being actively developed probably won't be ported to ARM Macs. There is software now that doesn't run on Catalina because it is 32bit. I have software that won't run on Catalina that I would like to have installed on this new Mac. I doubt I am the only one.

I would be surprised to see x86 Docker containers ever run on an ARM Mac or x86 linux VMs. A lot of developers develop on Macs using these technologies. Yes, they could use Windows or Linux on a PC but they use a Mac right now because they prefer to use Macs. Similarly, people who only need to run Windows apps occasionally aren't going to want to keep a Windows machine around just for that purpose.

 

[shywizard]

Like many of you, I'm going to wait for Apple to release the OS 10.15.7 before ordering a new iMac.
But if that update doesn't fix our 5700XT issues, Tim and I are going to have a long talk.

 

[dspdoc]

Like many of you, I'm going to wait for Apple to release the OS 10.15.7 before ordering a new iMac.
But if that update doesn't fix our 5700XT issues, Tim and I are going to have a long talk.

There will be no 10.15.7. Please let us all know what Tim has to say. ?

 

[sunman42]

There will be no 10.15.7. Please let us all know what Tim has to say. ?

Well, there's already been one unnumbered update to 10.5.6, hasn't there? Nothing to stop another. Or just bake it into Big Sur, which might be harder at this point, as they try to get to GM.

 

[dspdoc]

Well, there's already been one unnumbered update to 10.5.6, hasn't there? Nothing to stop another. Or just bake it into Big Sur, which might be harder at this point, as they try to get to GM.

Yes, there could technically be another supplemental update to Catalina, although I highly doubt it. I don’t think we are anywhere near a BS GM though. My guess is the first week of October.

 

[kkh]

Here's another Xcode experiment. And it may not have any significant value but it is interesting to me nonetheless. See attached.

"Waiting for GPU to finish the commands".

That's the Pro 5700 XT 16 GB. While rendering a simple test window with no content. I get a lot of these when running the test app and recording it using Instruments. If I run the very same test app on my ancient iMac with a GTX 780M, I get no such messages, no matter what I do.

 

[kkh]

And the above experiment made me think of something. Of those here having the corner glitches and white lines, how many have the 3.6 GHz 10-Core Intel Core i9?

 

[ADGrant]

Here's another Xcode experiment. And it may not have any significant value but it is interesting to me nonetheless. See attached.

"Waiting for GPU to finish the commands".

That's the Pro 5700 XT 16 GB. While rendering a simple test window with no content. I get a lot of these when running the test app and recording it using Instruments. If I run the very same test app on my ancient iMac with a GTX 780M, I get no such messages, no matter what I do.

That has to be a bug in the GPU driver. I would love to see if the same error message appears when running on the 5700 or 5500XT

 

[dspdoc]

And the above experiment made me think of something. Of those here having the corner glitches and white lines, how many have the 3.6 GHz 10-Core Intel Core i9?

i9 here. Although I think the i7 machines are equally affected.

 

[PieTunes]

And the above experiment made me think of something. Of those here having the corner glitches and white lines, how many have the 3.6 GHz 10-Core Intel Core i9?

Good question for sure. I have the i7.

 

[anthony13]

And the above experiment made me think of something. Of those here having the corner glitches and white lines, how many have the 3.6 GHz 10-Core Intel Core i9?

yep, I9 3.6 10 core.

 

[PieTunes]

Looks like Big Sur beta 6 was just released and it supports the 2020 iMacs?

 

[dspdoc]

Looks like Big Sur beta 6 was just released and it supports the 2020 iMacs?

This is my fear. That Apple will fix this in BS only. I know some of us aren’t real keen on jumping right into the latest OS. This iMac came with Catalina installed, therefore they should fix the issues with Catalina too IMHO.

 

[ADGrant]

Yeah, the uneven white is a problem. Always has been. Even on really expensive reference displays I have used. But I have had that for so long that... well... the sharp corners and white lines stick out more than that.

Someone needs to build a display with white sub pixels. RGB is not cutting it. The printer manufacturers worked this out a long time ago.

 

[kkh]

Looks like Big Sur beta 6 was just released and it supports the 2020 iMacs?

Ok. Who's gonna take the plunge? I can't. Too many audio plugins will fail instantly. Or so I fear.

 

[dspdoc]

Ok. Who's gonna take the plunge? I can't. Too many audio plugins will fail instantly. Or so I fear.

I’m with you! Too much at stake. It’s a horrible feeling to be pushed into an OS!

 

[kkh]

Good question for sure. I have the i7.

Ok. So the CPU has nothing to do with this.

 

[shywizard]

Ok. Who's gonna take the plunge? I can't. Too many audio plugins will fail instantly. Or so I fear.

Looks like Big Sur beta 6 was just released and it supports the 2020 iMacs?

Is that a question or a statement?

 

[kkh]

Is that a question or a statement?

Resolved in macOS Big Sur 11 beta 6

• macOS Big Sur 11 beta 7 is now supported for iMac (Retina 5K, 27-inch, 2020). (67093251)

 

[dspdoc]

Resolved in macOS Big Sur 11 beta 6

• macOS Big Sur 11 beta 7 is now supported for iMac (Retina 5K, 27-inch, 2020). (67093251)

beta 6 / beta 7...? So which is it? And is this the fix to the issues? If so I guess us Catalina peeps are screwed. ?‍♂️