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See attached screenshot. The only time I got a banner like this in iOS 10 was during an active call (green banner) or active maps navigation.

Now I get it all the time.

Seems like it's a bug, or google maps is somehow already running full GPS in the background, which shouldn't display the badge. Maybe try turning the allowances for google maps off, then back on.

I suggest you, people, stop getting high and start using your devices. Leave your philosophical nonsense out of it.

What are your thoughts on memory metal?
 
This sentiment continues to be a mystery to me. :) Now, if someone was as bothered by seeing a realistic-looking compass from 1750 as I am bothered by seeing a completely flat & disinteresting-looking (to me) compass that I think a talented 8th grader could have created, I'm OK with that, as preferences are preferences. But putting skeumorphism/flat appearance preferences aside, I still long to read one convincing argument for why the new button-less, borderlines, context-free, and grey/silver/white-overload UI helps to "get out of the way" of the content. I contend that the ios7-ios11 UI actually gets in the way of efficient & intuitive understanding of the content by virtually completely removing cues that were expertly developed over the years -- i.e., the cues that allowed users to previously say "it just works." And, therefore, the new ios7-ios11 "way" actually gets in the way of the content.

I'm sincerely asking @Hook85: what was getting in the way with the old way for the stopwatch app, where it was readily apparent where the buttons for start, reset, and stop were located, and where the contrasty black top area helped differentiate the bordered & different-colored grey area below, indicating that the bottom area probably served a different function...vs. the ios7-ios11 white puffy cloud-like appearance where everything kinda blends together at first glance until you stopped and thought about things...further compounded by the poor choice of text/contrast at the "buttons," and where the entire ios7-ios11 screen is near impossible to read in the sun vs. the prior UI?
View attachment 706243

I really could go on forever, but here's another example, using the mail app.

Before:
1) Darker border on top vs. the "email" area: quick mental differentiation of the different "working" zones.
2) Proper use of buttons: easy identification of actions (All Inboxes & arrow buttons) vs. info only (1 of 385).
3) Correct usage of grey/light text: the up arrow button is greyed out/lighter, signifying you can't use it (can't scroll further up).
4) Intuitive prompting of buttons on the left for Reply/Forward/Print, which are clearly different from each other, and where the Cancel button is clearly shaded differently for a quickly subconsciously cueing the user that it serves a much different function than the upper buttons.
5) Good use of high-contrast, defined borders/regions, and bolder fonts, for easier comprehension especially in the sun since the iPhone has historically had very poor readability outdoors (10 years in and still no improvement).
6) Still often hear "it just works" when people talk about Apple.

After:
1) Harder-to-discern bordering/shading all over, allowing all working zones to appear merged; takes additional time to process. No differentiation between the very top status area (all info-only & no actions) vs. the email app header/tools area immediately below (are some of those actionable?).
2) No more buttons: How many options to do actions exist in the top header? is "1 of 2" an action, since it's bolder than the others? Stop & think & experiment.
3) Confusing usage of grey/light text: After decades of intuitively knowing that something greyed-out is not an available option at the moment: Are the "Photo" & "up/down arrows" not permitted to be used at all in this app? Or, since faint light blue is used now to indicate a "button," why aren't "Photo" and the arrows a light blue font? And if Photos & the arrows are actually available options, why isn't the left arrow gray-er to signify it truly isn't available since we're at the top of the message, and prevent me from using it? Stop & think & experiment. Try to not throw your phone down in disgust :(
4) No intuitively discernible buttons for the reply/forward/save image/print areas, where it looks like one big white square with faint lines between the words. Buttons? Info only? Experiment & investigate. Bolded but still thin Cancel button not easily/quickly differentiated from the above items.
5) Poor use of contrast, no discernible borders/regions, thin fonts on a very white workspace. Makes reading an iPhone in the sun even worse than before, as if it could get any worse (but it did).
6) I've honestly not heard "it just works" about Apple items in a loooooooong time. That is pretty sad, folks. Very amateurish presentation/UI now, where the UI seems to get in way of quick understanding/use of the content with almost every reinvented ios7/ios11 interface.

Very respectfully, I ask @Hook85 and anyone else: Please show me how the old way "got in the way" and how the new way doesn't. This is an honest question. I firmly believe it can't be done, but would respect being proven wrong. No pointing to new tools like improved Control Centers that were introduced after ios6, as that could have been done with the (more intuitive) pre-ios7 UI.
View attachment 706245

Agree. The whole "flat" fad sucks.
 
Late to the party but..

The 6 to 7 change is always going to be an issue because it was one of the first “major” updates to the os. You either loved it or hated it and I think both sides have valid arguments. To me, iOS 7 was terrible (too bright, waaay too flat, hard to maneuver, etc.) but over time, it’s really evolved. I don’t mean that in an “iOS 6 needed to be refreshed” way but since there’s no turning back, the team (albeit slowly?) seems to be getting a feel for this eras’ design.

Like others mentioned earlier, I think we’re nearing another “major” revamp to the os because iOS 11 seems to be a clean up of 10 but still kind of gives the system a new feel. To someone who mentioned layers in iOS 7, i think they’re trying to make that design language more discernible in 11 (like the new Notification Center and cc).

But overall the design language is meant to compliment the devices imo. Yes iOS 6 had more textures, gradients, etc. but even cleaning it up, the os wouldn’t strike you as “light”. I think the way iOS 6 utilized shadows and other designs that gave it body is challenging for the “new modern” but again, in iOS 11 (even though I’m still on the fence), you can see them using bolder typeface as their new shadows. Basically the new design creates a weightless feel to the way you interact with your phone. The same way the phones have gotten thinner means a “heavier” os wouldn’t compliment. This is also why I think the os is so white (however this could be to make a dark mode easier to design since all the white would just become black?)
 
Late to the party but..

The 6 to 7 change is always going to be an issue because it was one of the first “major” updates to the os. You either loved it or hated it and I think both sides have valid arguments. To me, iOS 7 was terrible (too bright, waaay too flat, hard to maneuver, etc.) but over time, it’s really evolved. I don’t mean that in an “iOS 6 needed to be refreshed” way but since there’s no turning back, the team (albeit slowly?) seems to be getting a feel for this eras’ design.

Like others mentioned earlier, I think we’re nearing another “major” revamp to the os because iOS 11 seems to be a clean up of 10 but still kind of gives the system a new feel. To someone who mentioned layers in iOS 7, i think they’re trying to make that design language more discernible in 11 (like the new Notification Center and cc).

But overall the design language is meant to compliment the devices imo. Yes iOS 6 had more textures, gradients, etc. but even cleaning it up, the os wouldn’t strike you as “light”. I think the way iOS 6 utilized shadows and other designs that gave it body is challenging for the “new modern” but again, in iOS 11 (even though I’m still on the fence), you can see them using bolder typeface as their new shadows. Basically the new design creates a weightless feel to the way you interact with your phone. The same way the phones have gotten thinner means a “heavier” os wouldn’t compliment. This is also why I think the os is so white (however this could be to make a dark mode easier to design since all the white would just become black?)

Nice post. We could definitely argue/chat/volley all day about the artistic differences between six and 7+ and nobody come out a winner, but beyond just the art, the UIx no-buttons interfaces defies logic to me. I could list 2 dozen reasons why the prompting was better before and get a bunch to agree. I have yet to read one valid argument why the current UIx prompting is better, other than to keep hearing "the skeumorphism was too detailed before and feels lighter and more airy and I like it better now." Never a valid argument why the buttonless, less detailed flat prompting is better other than that looks better to some.
 
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Nice post. We could definitely argue/chat/volley all day about the artistic differences between six and 7+ and nobody come out a winner, but beyond just the art, the UIx no-buttons interfaces defies logic to me. I could list 2 dozen reasons why the prompting was better before and get a bunch to agree. I have yet to read one valid argument why the current UIx prompting is better, other than to keep hearing "the skeumorphism was too detailed before and feels lighter and more airy and I like it better now." Never a valid argument why the buttonless, less detailed flat prompting is better other than that looks better to some.

Even if someone did, would you listen, or would you continue to sing the praises of rich Corinthian leather?

The problems with skeuomorphic design were well debated when iOS reached its zenith of using them. The primary problem with them is that they tend to limit the functionality and thinking of a developer (and user) to a real world object and real world objects have severe limitations that applications don’t, or at least shouldn't.

Lets take one of the low points (among many) of iOS 6 interface design. The contacts app.

IMG_0266.PNG

There we go. Colorful, pretty, real world. All the things you love. Makes perfect sense, right? Well, no, it doesn’t. Even the designers could tell the book was a limiting analogy for a digital application and didn’t follow through on itm so it has pages you can't turn, a bookmark that isn’t a bookmark, a sliding list that couldn’t possibly exist in an actual book. Had they followed through on it would have been immeasurably worse than an already horrible design. As they acknowledged by not in fact having a book of flippable pages, we can do much, much better than the just replicating real world objects on a screen. What they got in the end was neither here nor there, a digital interface turd.

So what can we do when we eschew Skeuomorphism and think about what makes sense on screens? Take Things 3 as an example. I’m not particular recommending this app in its totality (though I have it, and love it) but want to point out one part of its design, The Magic Plus. I just grabbed this screenshot from their site (using the iOS 11 screenshot feature, which is one of the most elegant and useful pieces of interface design I have had the pleasure of using in some time. It requires no frippery, virtually no concession to skeuomorphism, no pretending that these are Polaroids skimming across our tables as you would no doubt have it. A beautifcally digitial interface)


IMG_0267.jpg

That little plus can be dragged and dropped in a number of places where it contextually just does “The Right Thing”. It doesn’t need to be multi-colored, draped in leather or wood, or have any sort of real world analogy whatsoever. In fact, it wouldn’t just be worse if it did, it wouldn’t exist at all. Had Cultured Code limited themselves to that thinking, that feature would never exist. They threw off the shackles of the physical and created something practically brilliant.

I don’t think anyone would pretend that iOS 7, or even iOS 11 for that matter, were perfect and I’m not about to get into every button and control, but taking off the training wheels of physical analogy, of skeuomorphism, opens up a whole world of possibilities simply not possible in that kind of design. The only thing worse than a skeuomorphic design is realizing that skeuomorphic design is limiting and still trying to do it anyway. Apple got to that point and something had to give.
 
Nice post. We could definitely argue/chat/volley all day about the artistic differences between six and 7+ and nobody come out a winner, but beyond just the art, the UIx no-buttons interfaces defies logic to me. I could list 2 dozen reasons why the prompting was better before and get a bunch to agree. I have yet to read one valid argument why the current UIx prompting is better, other than to keep hearing "the skeumorphism was too detailed before and feels lighter and more airy and I like it better now." Never a valid argument why the buttonless, less detailed flat prompting is better other than that looks better to some.

When I look at iOS6, I feel overwhelmed. While I agree that the interface is more obvious, I don't think that's the only metric that counts. The old interface slows me down because my eyes are stopping to observe the structure before the content. My eyes go in all sorts of directions when I first see the realistic interface. Things catch my attention that shouldn't. Such as the vertical lines in notes. It's the first thing I notice. Then I look at the menu bar, then the tab bar. Then finally the actual content. In the flat interface, I look at the content first. I don't even look at the menu bar or tab bar until I actually need to. That's the key point with flat interfaces. That's important because I already know where to find them, I don't need to be reminded with stark separations. This is why believe I am more efficient when using the flat iOS. The stark separations in pre-iOS call too much attention to themselves.

A separated panel, like the old menu and tab bars, act like gravity on the eyes. It's the gestalt principle of encapsulation. The time it takes to learn a flat interface is worth it. It's a very short learning curve, most people got comfortable with iOS 7 quickly after it came out. I asked my friends and family about it and it wasn't even a big deal to them. They have no problems with interacting with the interface. And it this point, every smartphone user on the planet can use a flat interface, so the issue of discoverability isn't really an issue anymore in my opinion.

I think overall pre-iOS 7 is a success, but I think it fails at the extremely basic concept of encapsulation. While post-iOS 7 UI is not perfect, it doesn't fail as hard in one thing like pre-iOS 7 did. I'm not even against realism in UI. It's kind of strange that there are no contrarian apps doing realism in any way, which is kind of sad, I think an app today that uses realism in it's UI could be very interesting.

So I agree that a flat interface will be harder to learn for someone brand new to the device. But I don't think all interfaces should prioritize that. Reason being is that users become savvy very quickly and don't need the extra help. Especially consider that a user could learn a UI in a few minutes but then has to continue seeing the obvious affordances for eternity. I haven't met anyone who's had a problem with understanding interaction with flat interfaces. I think color and placement provide enough signals to users to imply interactivity. I do believe that gradients will make buttons look more like buttons, and I am open to gradient buttons. But on the other hand, I've never been confused whether blue text was a button, because it's always a button. I'm open to making buttons more realistic, but I am less open to the heavy obvious separations that call too much attention. That's not exclusively a skueomorphic thing, but it was more prevalent with skueomorphism.
 
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Even if someone did, would you listen, or would you continue to sing the praises of rich Corinthian leather?

The problems with skeuomorphic design were well debated when iOS reached its zenith of using them. The primary problem with them is that they tend to limit the functionality and thinking of a developer (and user) to a real world object and real world objects have severe limitations that applications don’t, or at least shouldn't.

Lets take one of the low points (among many) of iOS 6 interface design. The contacts app.

View attachment 706505

There we go. Colorful, pretty, real world. All the things you love. Makes perfect sense, right? Well, no, it doesn’t. Even the designers could tell the book was a limiting analogy for a digital application and didn’t follow through on itm so it has pages you can't turn, a bookmark that isn’t a bookmark, a sliding list that couldn’t possibly exist in an actual book. Had they followed through on it would have been immeasurably worse than an already horrible design. As they acknowledged by not in fact having a book of flippable pages, we can do much, much better than the just replicating real world objects on a screen. What they got in the end was neither here nor there, a digital interface turd.

So what can we do when we eschew Skeuomorphism and think about what makes sense on screens? Take Things 3 as an example. I’m not particular recommending this app in its totality (though I have it, and love it) but want to point out one part of its design, The Magic Plus. I just grabbed this screenshot from their site (using the iOS 11 screenshot feature, which is one of the most elegant and useful pieces of interface design I have had the pleasure of using in some time. It requires no frippery, virtually no concession to skeuomorphism, no pretending that these are Polaroids skimming across our tables as you would no doubt have it. A beautifcally digitial interface)


View attachment 706507

That little plus can be dragged and dropped in a number of places where it contextually just does “The Right Thing”. It doesn’t need to be multi-colored, draped in leather or wood, or have any sort of real world analogy whatsoever. In fact, it wouldn’t just be worse if it did, it wouldn’t exist at all. Had Cultured Code limited themselves to that thinking, that feature would never exist. They threw off the shackles of the physical and created something practically brilliant.

I don’t think anyone would pretend that iOS 7, or even iOS 11 for that matter, were perfect and I’m not about to get into every button and control, but taking off the training wheels of physical analogy, of skeuomorphism, opens up a whole world of possibilities simply not possible in that kind of design. The only thing worse than a skeuomorphic design is realizing that skeuomorphic design is limiting and still trying to do it anyway. Apple got to that point and something had to give.

I would listen when somebody actually listens to me, which you haven't. I'm not talking as much about leather and felt and curled bookpages, which are always brought up to pile on and distract. I'm talking much more about UI prompts (I.e. how the actionable items & text/data items and various data is differentiated and presented for understanding and use) not so much the background they are laid out upon) that should be differentisted and help you almost subconsciously differentiate between what is information (these could remain flat) versus what is actionable (truly, what's wrong with giving a little distinction, a.k.a., the horrible buttons or 3D rendering, for prompting instead of hiding actionable items flatly within a flattened white/gray flat interface). I'm amazed that you're distracted by a header being a different color, but if that is how you feel so be it. Many users such as yourself are willing to put up with everything currently, because it works for you, which is great, while many like me have noticed a significant decrease in the "it just works factor." So I frequently try to put that into words and understand why that is. The new UI removed "actionable" cues, and really, why were they so bad. Apple reinvented what it thinks should be the learned standard, and for many, it's just different and not a better UI standard. I know I would've been a lot more fine with the removal of leather book pages and red bookmarks if they retained reasonable font colors and actionable cues that weren't so "hidden;" the whiteout phenomenon with overuse of light gray text and light blue text significantly decreases readability for the sake of "homogeneity," which is another imposed artificial "improvement." Instead of focusing on how the iOS represents data from the real world, let's go in the other direction; if flat and all-white all-stripped down all-similar-like on the device is best in class for everything, why aren't television casings white, why isn't wood flooring white, why isn't house siding white, why isn't every menu in every restaurant white with grey low contrast text, why do we still let girls color/change their hair color, why do Apple devices come in various colors, why do Apple stores sell mobile device cases and covers with various textures (where, ironically, the price goes up with increased plushness and detail, hmmmmm). Ware plush couches (covered with rich Corinthian leather) or comfy textured cloth, favored, etc. Or have we all just not figured out that all those details are distracting us when we pay attention to them, and instead we should just be converting to all white-out there in the world, so we can quickly focus on....Something. Much if not all of the current UI choices are based just on personal preference and not best in class and what's "natural," and too many have unfortunately bought into it.
 
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Late to the party but..

The 6 to 7 change is always going to be an issue because it was one of the first “major” updates to the os. You either loved it or hated it and I think both sides have valid arguments. To me, iOS 7 was terrible (too bright, waaay too flat, hard to maneuver, etc.) but over time, it’s really evolved. I don’t mean that in an “iOS 6 needed to be refreshed” way but since there’s no turning back, the team (albeit slowly?) seems to be getting a feel for this eras’ design.

Like others mentioned earlier, I think we’re nearing another “major” revamp to the os because iOS 11 seems to be a clean up of 10 but still kind of gives the system a new feel. To someone who mentioned layers in iOS 7, i think they’re trying to make that design language more discernible in 11 (like the new Notification Center and cc).

But overall the design language is meant to compliment the devices imo. Yes iOS 6 had more textures, gradients, etc. but even cleaning it up, the os wouldn’t strike you as “light”. I think the way iOS 6 utilized shadows and other designs that gave it body is challenging for the “new modern” but again, in iOS 11 (even though I’m still on the fence), you can see them using bolder typeface as their new shadows. Basically the new design creates a weightless feel to the way you interact with your phone. The same way the phones have gotten thinner means a “heavier” os wouldn’t compliment. This is also why I think the os is so white (however this could be to make a dark mode easier to design since all the white would just become black?)

I've been in the tech industry a long time. You have people sitting in cubicles or, worse, open offices all day, every day. Those people have to do something to get their stupid paychecks so that they can go home and waste money on stuff that requires them to remain enslaved at their open offices. What do they do at their offices all day? They come up with ways to "fix" things that don't need fixing. They change stuff in large part because release cycles and upgrade cycles and corporate money requirements force them to. There was nothing wrong with iOS 6. There was more right with iOS 6 than there has been with iOS 7, 8, 9, and 10. And yet each of those "new" operating systems was better...because? They were flat? Give me a break.

You see the same thing in the Windows world. Windows 7 was just fine for everyone--except Microsoft, which needed to sell the "new." So they created the horrible Windows 8, 8.1, and now 10, all of which are horrible, horrible "upgrades."

Step back a bit, and there's one thing in common between what's happened in Windows and iOS over the past few years: there's been tremendous energy expended on "flat," which has been a total disaster from a usability standpoint. But it sure has kept the upgrade cycle going.
 
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Things catch my attention that shouldn't. Such as the vertical lines in notes. It's the first thing I notice. Then I look at the menu bar, then the tab bar. Then finally the actual content. In the flat interface, I look at the content first. I don't even look at the menu bar or tab bar until I actually need to.

...

A separated panel, like the old menu and tab bars, act like gravity on the eyes. It's the gestalt principle of encapsulation.

Let's talk about the Music app, where the content is the music and where you're not staring at the screen often. The current interface, which looks an awful lot like the News app, which itself is pretty horrible to navigate because you don't know what's clickable or not and is innefficiently overloaded with wasted white space, just gets in the way of quick understanding and is downright awful to use.

Even with apps forwhich the content is on the screen, I would argue that the menu is part of the content. I do admit I completely fail to see this dogged clinging to needing to differente menu/actionable items from the "content."

I mean to say this with respect, but this just amazes me. I do hear and read your sentiment often, and just don't understand it, not one bit. I guess that's the way it is. Respectfully, I tend to think this is overthinking trying too hard instead of just "being and enjoying," but I'm sure you think that back to me. :)
 
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Anyone want to venture a guess which UI elements are clickable in this screenshot and how they figured that out?

Hint: Where do you press to change the input settings?

garageband.png

[doublepost=1498823294][/doublepost]This looks so much more modern, too. Usability be damned:


shd.png




I can't take all this skeuomorphism :eek:

gb_tracking-4eb80de-intro.jpg



Garageband-sequencer-1.png
 
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I think everyone can agree that the felt and leather were overkill, nobody needs that. iOS 7 was a little too much when it comes to flat design, but Apple has slowly reverted back to more shadows and depth the OS. I think the switch from 6 to 7 was absolutely necessary to make it look more modern. I look back and everything pre 7 looks very childish to me. The current design language is much cleaner, modern, and simple. Lastly, I don't have any issues with the lack of "buttons" throughout the OS. As a more technically savvy person, I never even thought about it. I don't see any issues either from my nephew to my grandma, so I think it's a non issue and the people that harp on it need to move on. Design will fluctuate with the times.
 
I think everyone can agree that the felt and leather were overkill, nobody needs that. iOS 7 was a little too much when it comes to flat design, but Apple has slowly reverted back to more shadows and depth the OS. I think the switch from 6 to 7 was absolutely necessary to make it look more modern. I look back and everything pre 7 looks very childish to me. The current design language is much cleaner, modern, and simple. Lastly, I don't have any issues with the lack of "buttons" throughout the OS. As a more technically savvy person, I never even thought about it. I don't see any issues either from my nephew to my grandma, so I think it's a non issue and the people that harp on it need to move on. Design will fluctuate with the times.

For both sides, the problem may just be that the extremes are too bothersome. A Contacts/address app looking like a 1920s book is one extreme ready to be toned down. Having each and every app look like a whiteout with light blue or gray text that blend in too much with actionable items and lose the ability to use greyed-out items as non-clickable items for the sake of some imagined need for homogeneity is another extreme that should never have been. As many have pointed out, iOS 7 went to too many extremes, resulting in another problem where non-experts out there took their stab at translating these new methods, resulting in some pretty horrible apps and websites that exhibit vastly reduced usability and then reduced enjoyment and increased frustration for many.

I think a good middle point was Mavericks OS. Some items were flattened, most actionable items stood out as actionable items, certain "Apple items" still remained (like lickable stoplight buttons, Apple's traditional system font, there was enough detail to be interesting to look at), while the next OS Yosemite introduced something stripped down that looked more like what Microsoft could have produced in the late 90s while they were still figuring things out and getting better. I'm bringing up an OS in this ios11 UI thread because in general the ios11 UI still stubbornly clings to some uber-minimalist whims, where anything good from the post-ios6 world is too overshadowed by certain extreme elements, and it's human nature to just accept the good things and move on but dwell upon the bad things.

I'm going to try to find certain apps after iOS 6 thatvdo things well. I'll share here if I find any.
 
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For both sides, the problem may just be that the extremes are too bothersome. A Contacts/address app looking like a 1920s book is one extreme ready to be toned down. Having each and every app look like a whiteout with light blue or gray text that blend in too much with actionable items and lose the ability to use greyed-out items as non-clickable items for the sake of some imagined need for homogeneity is another extreme that should never have been. As many have pointed out, iOS 7 went to too many extremes, resulting in another problem where non-experts out there took their stab at translating these new methods, resulting in some pretty horrible apps and websites that exhibit vastly reduced usability and then reduced enjoyment and increased frustration for money.

I think a good middle point was Mavericks OS. Some items were flattened, most actionable items stood out as actionable items, certain "Apple items" still remained (like lickable stoplight buttons, Apple's traditional system font, there was enough detail to be interesting to look at), while the next OS Yosemite introduced something stripped down that looked more like what Microsoft could have produced in the late 90s while they were still figuring things out and getting better. I'm bringing up an OS in this ios11 UI thread because in general the ios11 UI still stubbornly clings to some minimalist whims, where anything good since ios6 is too overshadowed by certain extreme elements, mand it's human nature to just accept the good things and move on but dwell upon the bad things.

I can see your point. I actually think iOS 10 and 11 are in that middle ground similar to Mavericks.
 
Ios 11 is exact same as last few years ive been using it and apart from chhange in cc everything feels same,
 
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Let's talk about the Music app, where the content is the music and where you're not staring at the screen often. The current interface, which looks an awful lot like the News app, which itself is pretty horrible to navigate because you don't know what's clickable or not and is innefficiently overloaded with wasted white space, just gets in the way of quick understanding and is downright awful to use.

And on top of that, the Music app remains BROKEN in important ways. Example: click "play less like this" no longer does anything. Doesn't move the song forward. No feedback whatsoever. iOS 9's music app was not great, but it was worlds better than 10's--and it worked.
 
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You see the same thing in the Windows world. Windows 7 was just fine for everyone--except Microsoft, which needed to sell the "new." So they created the horrible Windows 8, 8.1, and now 10, all of which are horrible, horrible "upgrades."

Microsoft needed a UI that would translate from the desktop world to the mobile / tablet world. The old interface wasn't going to cut it since it had been designed to be used with a keyboard and mouse. Have you ever logged into a Windows desktop from a phone or tablet? It's atrocious! Just a completely awful interface for a touch device. You're welcome to complain that you don't care for what they came up with and you'll get no arguments from me. But to imply that they made changes for the sake of making changes is completely false. They made changes so they could move Windows on to other platforms.
 
I've been in the tech industry a long time. You have people sitting in cubicles or, worse, open offices all day, every day. Those people have to do something to get their stupid paychecks so that they can go home and waste money on stuff that requires them to remain enslaved at their open offices. What do they do at their offices all day? They come up with ways to "fix" things that don't need fixing. They change stuff in large part because release cycles and upgrade cycles and corporate money requirements force them to. There was nothing wrong with iOS 6. There was more right with iOS 6 than there has been with iOS 7, 8, 9, and 10. And yet each of those "new" operating systems was better...because? They were flat? Give me a break.

You see the same thing in the Windows world. Windows 7 was just fine for everyone--except Microsoft, which needed to sell the "new." So they created the horrible Windows 8, 8.1, and now 10, all of which are horrible, horrible "upgrades."

Step back a bit, and there's one thing in common between what's happened in Windows and iOS over the past few years: there's been tremendous energy expended on "flat," which has been a total disaster from a usability standpoint. But it sure has kept the upgrade cycle going.

Sorry to go off on a tangent here, but I wholeheartedly disagree on windows 10 (and windows 8, although that's way past its prime). They did a tremendous job, and I'm not talking aesthetically but in terms of UI and functionality, especially in the modern age of touchscreens. If anything I see Microsoft as one of the few companies who are actually trying to keep up with modern needs, where other companies just feel like minor revisions to their icons and color schemes constitute an update.

But back to iOS11. I like skeumorphism quite a bit, but I can see where it fell short like the example of the contacts/address book someone posted up before. But I still like it, especially in relation to icons and overall theme. I think we have to have some style in the UI, even if it's just for styles sake. Everything can't be stark white on off white. So I understand the functionality argument, but that just leaves no room for style and iOS has continued to lose soul and become boring because of it.

Although I do see MS flattening stuff here and there, most of what they have been doing is simplifying UI elements so they can be used in both mouse and touchscreen paradigms. Have you seen Microsofts Fluent Design? https://www.theverge.com/2017/5/11/15615812/microsoft-fluent-design-system-project-neon-features It's amazing IMO and blows away anything currently out there, but I'm definitely biased as I feel windows 10 blows anything else away. But just look at that video and see how they use depth, motion, etc to create a VERY exciting UI. Heck who would have thought a UI could be exciting? Meanwhile we have Android and Apple making the most boring UI's on earth with these white on off white horrendous themes with absolutely no soul to them. It's amusing and ironic to me that Microsoft used to be the beige box, boring, corporate, soulless company and Apple used to be the young, hip, graphics tuned company and they have reversed roles these past few years.
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I don't think the signal bars replacing dots is slowly going back to iOS 6 style, I think it's because of the iPhone 8 and that there might be less space up there. Seems to me like iOS 7 went 180 degrees in another direction and eventually Apple will end up somewhere in the middle. I don't see faux leather and green felt coming back but thin fonts and icons are probably gone for good. More text will probably have shading around it to make it look like a button (see App Store redesign). One thing I wish is that they would replace the back button carrot "<" with an arrow. I think an arrow would look nicer.

I will highly miss the signal dots, I can remember going to great lengths to get something similar on a Note 7. The signal bars are a bit tough on my old, tired eyes and I definitely appreciated those dots. As for the back button, I don't care what they use, they just need to make it larger, you almost need a stylus to hit it!
 
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50% of those apps require white space. You cannot make Notes all dark. You cannot make iTunes/App Store all dark and you cannot make health all dark. It will look horrible.

And it's all for one reason: glare.

Dark UIs absolutely suck in a glossy display and it's all because of glare.
 
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And it's all for one reason: glare.

Dark UIs absolutely suck in a glossy display and it's all because of glare.

Yeah, but, except that all the low contrast font on bright white backgrounds is absolutely unreadable in the sunlight. Apple maybe addressed glare, but didn't address overall readability and usability. Somewhere in all these posts I read a quote from Steve Jobs that design is more than how things look, it's how they work. That big picture overall view is sorely missing since Steve left Apple and the living.
 
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Yeah, but, except that all the low contrast font on bright white backgrounds is absolutely unreadable in the sunlight. Apple maybe addressed glare, but didn't address overall readability and usability. Somewhere in all these post I read a quote from Steve Jobs that design is more than how things look, it's how they work. That big picture overall view is sorely missing since Steve left Apple and the living.


Well, yes, they are hard to read on sunlight, but white over black is hard to read as well, in my opinion.

Still, you're right about the font selection: it's not very usable.
 
Microsoft needed a UI that would translate from the desktop world to the mobile / tablet world.

At the risk of a whole new tangent....taking a step back, could it be argued that to an extent, perhaps too much is being expected from a mobile UI. I'll acknowledge that the world is moving towards mobile, sure sure sure. But. Now interfaces/UI are being catered to iPhone/iPad/Android to the point where there are noticeable detriments to the desktop experience at times.... Unarguably, the desktop experience allows much "more" such as the ability to hover a mouse over something (and see indications before clicking) as well as more real estate, more storage (and freedom from the dreaded "cloud music" experience Apple keeps shoving down our throats), the ability to quickly type lots of data in vs. tap tap tap and/or dictate.... So I ask....with the obvious physical size & input limitations of mobile, at what point are we expecting too much from mobile devices, resulting in a sometimes too complex mobile experience and then a degraded desktop experience?

Just a question to ponder...

Currently, 4 different actions can result from swiping offscreen to onscreen from top, from bottom, from left, and from right at times...yet bezels are getting smaller (and phones more fragile, which is an entire other design rant), which reduces the ability to easily swipe from an offscreen area onto on-screen if you're one of the conscientious objectors like me who insist on a case to protect the overly-jewelry-delicate $900 iPhone...

Seriously, just a question: Do we need to scrunch down the iMessages text input zone to 10 pixels wide so you can jam in icons for photos, emoticons, artwork, effects, gifs...and soon facebook/instagram/twitter??.....at what point has the pendulum swung too far to where the children are leading the parents around? How long will it continue to be acceptable to expect hotdogs & hamburgers & bratwursts at the company picnic to work equally well in the hamburger bun?
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So I understand the functionality argument, but that just leaves no room for style and iOS has continued to lose soul and become boring because of it.

Well said.

Although I do see MS flattening stuff here and there, most of what they have been doing is simplifying UI elements so they can be used in both mouse and touchscreen paradigms.

Ha, that comment got me thinking...are we perhaps asking too much by designing something to work on both mouse & touchscreen....I feel like we've replaced our entire silverware set with sporks that have sharp edges....sure you should be able to eat soup, spaghetti, and steak with that one utensil but are you really going to enjoy it as much...and not cut your tongue at every meal?


I wish I could say I saw Fluent after that video. Who made that, some 19 year old intern who drinks 5-hour Energies like water? I couldn't see much since each screen view lasted .5 second. What did they show but a bunch of flashes? I'll look into more later now after that color strobe video.

Meanwhile we have Android and Apple making the most boring UI's on earth with these white on off white horrendous themes with absolutely no soul to them. It's amusing and ironic to me that Microsoft used to be the beige box, boring, corporate, soulless company and Apple used to be the young, hip, graphics tuned company and they have reversed roles these past few years.

If Microsoft produces an engaging UI that "just works" like Apple used to, and produces an ecosystem that merges my mobile device, music collection, online account (Apple iCloud) that organizes my mail, contacts, schedules...then I may finally be ready to return to windows/PC and their generally more cost-effective machines. The only thing holding me to Apple is that I *think* their interface & ecosystem works better than Android & Windows...once when my friend who's hard of hearing handed me his Android phone during a volunteer meeting so I could check the voicemail his wife left, it took me 2-3 minutes to figure out how to get to the voicemail area and listen to the message; I still cling to the idea that the Android UI is/was/always will be a a wanna-be to Apple's UI, and perhaps I should have let that go after iOS7 since J.ive changed iOS to mimic the worst of android & Windows phone. And my view of Windows may be outdated as I still cling to visions of the horrible Metro interface and its overly-amateurish white flat design indicators/icons on simple colored squares. I knew I couldn't bare to work with either UI. I'll check out this Fusion. (God, why the names for UI's...Fusion...Material Design...Jony Ive's White Crapatorium UI....how long does anyone think we'll live in this VHS/Betamax world where you can still drive your car from Maker A with a round steering wheel or from Maker B with an octogon wheel....when will there be one universal "best" UI which doesn't need a name. Just do what works, stick with it, and stop making up imagined improvements.) :)

I will highly miss the signal dots, I can remember going to great lengths to get something similar on a Note 7. The signal bars are a bit tough on my old, tired eyes and I definitely appreciated those dots. As for the back button, I don't care what they use, they just need to make it larger, you almost need a stylus to hit it!

Funny, I detested the signal dots since the moment they appeared. For me they're more hard to differentiate at times between a filled-in and empty dot, they take up more space than the bars did, and I think the ascending-height function of the bars' signal strength was a strong secondary-info-prompt that was very, very useful. I felt the dots were more as part of J.ive's cosmetic changeover than any improvement in function. Interesting that it's the opposite for you!

I can see your point. I actually think iOS 10 and 11 are in that middle ground similar to Mavericks.

I hope so. I've kept Mavericks on my 2014 MBAir. I can't stand the look of any OS after Mavericks.
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What do they do at their offices all day? They come up with ways to "fix" things that don't need fixing. They change stuff in large part because release cycles and upgrade cycles and corporate money requirements force them to. There was nothing wrong with iOS 6. There was more right with iOS 6 than there has been with iOS 7, 8, 9, and 10. And yet each of those "new" operating systems was better...because? They were flat? Give me a break.

B I N G O
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I don’t think anyone would pretend that iOS 7, or even iOS 11 for that matter, were perfect and I’m not about to get into every button and control, but taking off the training wheels of physical analogy, of skeuomorphism, opens up a whole world of possibilities simply not possible in that kind of design.

Again once again, someone deflects wanting to discuss my main point of: display/conveying of actionable items is still often too watered down, too blurred into the look of info-only text in a post-IOS7 world due to oblitterating buttons & controls in place of colored text, and instead you jump to a critique of skeumorphic graphical training wheels.

The only thing worse than a skeuomorphic design is realizing that skeuomorphic design is limiting and still trying to do it anyway. Apple got to that point and something had to give.

The only thing worse than those two items is going too for to the right or left...going too skeumorphic or too "airy, basic, almost context-free..." If the early iOS contacts app (like a physical address book) was too far right, the continued use of all-white too-grey low-contrast-thin-buttonless-font UI is still too far right.
 
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But. Now interfaces/UI are being catered to iPhone/iPad/Android to the point where there are noticeable detriments to the desktop experience at times....

Excellent point. There's no reason you have to try to mash up a desktop interface with a mobile. You're talking apples and oranges there, really. That was the disaster of Windows 8 (and now 10). Try to do both at once, and you do neither well. Our company of 6,000+ won't be moving to Win10. No touch screens. Loads of mobile-like junk that we just don't need or want. Not to mention all the sneakiness embedded in the OS.
 
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