iOS 11 UI design.

[Feenician]

I would listen when somebody actually listens to me, which you haven't.

How ironic. You accuse me of not listening to you while posting...

I'm amazed that you're distracted by a header being a different color, but if that is how you feel so be it

Which I didn't say or even say anything like it. Please don't tell me or anyone else how they "feel". I don't know why I expect any more; you've spend 10 pages "I don't like this and no-one else should like LA LA LA", with your fingers in your ears when anyone says they do. You insist it's unusable as it is but somehow my girlfriend's 84 year old grandma who switched from Android to iPhone a few months back somehow manages to use it just fine. She's had her training wheels period and got over it, you apparently have not. That's ok, I respect your limitations.

Final proof you don't listen, care or understand what people are saying

Instead of focusing on how the iOS represents data from the real world, let's go in the other direction; if flat and all-white all-stripped down all-similar-like on the device is best in class for everything, why aren't television casings white, why isn't wood flooring white, why isn't house siding white, why isn't every menu in every restaurant white with grey low contrast text, why do we still let girls color/change their hair color, why do Apple devices come in various colors, why do Apple stores sell mobile device cases and covers with various textures (where, ironically, the price goes up with increased plushness and detail, hmmmmm). Ware plush couches (covered with rich Corinthian leather) or comfy textured cloth, favored,

It's because they are PHYSICAL OBJECTS. The properties of physical objects are prioritized differently than digital interfaces. Nothing wrong with a book or a green felt gaming table in real life. In an interface? No thanks. iOS 6 was a UI trash fire. The software was refined and fluent in a way it has never been since but the actual UI was hot garbage.
[doublepost=1498848741][/doublepost]

Again once again, someone deflects

There's no deflection. You can't just keep crying deflection everytime someone has a point to discuss that doesn't reflect your skewed opinion and try to ram words into other's mouths.

This statement
"I don’t think anyone would pretend that iOS 7, or even iOS 11 for that matter, were perfect and I’m not about to get into every button and control, but taking off the training wheels of physical analogy, of skeuomorphism, opens up a whole world of possibilities simply not possible in that kind of design."

Stands on its own regardless of what you personally have difficulty distinguishing controls an octogenarian can use with no difficulty.

 

[janeauburn]

Let's all remember...

 

[Tozovac]

How ironic. You accuse me of not listening to you while posting...

Which I didn't say or even say anything like it.

Ha ha, oops, well, you're right here - you didn't say that you were distracted that way, someone else did. I keep mixing up fans of flat/unintuitive design like I tend to mix actionable items with info-only items in our current too-thought-out iOS. Sincerely, my apologies, I messed up, up there! Here's what I was trying to answer to:

My eyes go in all sorts of directions when I first see the realistic interface. Things catch my attention that shouldn't. Such as the vertical lines in notes. It's the first thing I notice. Then I look at the menu bar, then the tab bar. Then finally the actual content. In the flat interface, I look at the content first. I don't even look at the menu bar or tab bar until I actually need to.

but somehow my girlfriend's 84 year old grandma who switched from Android to iPhone a few months back somehow manages to use it just fine. She's had her training wheels period and got over it, you apparently have not. That's ok, I respect your limitations.

Well, good on her. Anything from Android is an upgrade and "more intuitive," even ios7-11, I'll give you that. What's unspoken or may never be known is: how much more enjoyment or quicker comprehension might she get with a more intuitive/prompting interface?

Thanks for respecting my "limitations," maybe not so ironically very similar to how Apple buries various common-sense options like "show buttons, bolder font, increase contrast" under "Accessibility." I'm seeing a trend here...

Final proof you don't listen, care or understand what people are saying

It's because they are PHYSICAL OBJECTS. The properties of physical objects are prioritized differently than digital interfaces. Nothing wrong with a book or a green felt gaming table in real life.

Maybe both of us need hearing/comprehension checks then? Try to take your answer one step further beyond just telling me that digital should look 100.00% different than real life (and not just because they're different), and best if minimized to be as unobtrusive and distracting as possible. Tell me why it's best for most all apps to look alike from 5 feet (all white). Tell me why differentiation would be bad. Tell me why the digital interface is better by going to basic/bland/non-offensive/non-distracting/flat with no obvious difference between an actionable item vs. an info-only text item, and just the slightest hint at times of thin grey lines between certain areas, where you have to virtually squint to see them (unless of course you're an 84 year old with great eyesight and a high tolerance for stripped-down interfaces)? Why must certain tools/functions be buried down behind sub-menus just to have a cleaner-looking interface that requires 2-3x as many clicks to do something that required 1 click before? Great, physical objects are different than digital objects. But they have to look 100.0000% different and not reflect any slightest bit of realness in the digital view because.........because......?

And please move on with bringing up felt & stitching, I don't long for green felt and stitching on the screen either.

This article poses the problems with ios11-7 interface purty well:

http://cheerfulsw.com/2015/destroying-apples-legacy/

This statement
"I don’t think anyone would pretend that iOS 7, or even iOS 11 for that matter, were perfect and I’m not about to get into every button and control, but taking off the training wheels of physical analogy, of skeuomorphism, opens up a whole world of possibilities simply not possible in that kind of design."

Stands on its own regardless of what you personally have difficulty distinguishing controls an octogenarian can use with no difficulty.

Well, we can arm wrestle here forever. You'd prefer 0.00% carryover of "real life" into a digital screen, where it's just stupid to use even the slightest physical analogy and/or some button-appearances to differentiate between info-only areas, because just because real is different than digital, and that's fine. I think it's stupid to swing so far to one side and that's that. Whine whine whine cry cry cry.

 

[Feenician]

Well, we can arm wrestle here forever. You'd prefer 0.00% carryover of "real life" into a digital screen, where it's just stupid to use even the slightest physical analogy and/or some button-appearances to differentiate between info-only areas, because just because real is different than digital, and that's fine. I think it's stupid to swing so far to one side and that's that. Whine whine whine cry cry cry.

I actually wouldn't prefer zero vestiges of real life. Shadows are an obvious one here. There's no physical reason for objects in front of one another on a screen to cast shadows. They often do though, windows in macOS do. That popover for screenshots does. Nothing wrong with that, it visually separates one layer from another. It is a form of skeuomorph but - and this is really important part - it does not impose any kind of restriction by being so. There isn't really a better "purely digital" way (on a 2d screen) of quickly representing depth.

I thought I was pretty clear on my 1st post about (my opinion on) the major problem with carrying skeuomorphism too far. That is, it limits thinking, it limits flexibility. Taking an infinitely malleable 2d plane where visual metaphors can be anything you want them to be and trying to hammer how a book or a table works onto it is kinda broken thinking. Necessary, perhaps, for people to easily begin to understand at the start of each computing era, but now the training wheels are off and I don't think they are coming back.

This does not mean I think the iOS 7 and onward designs are perfect (I do think they have been refined over those years to mitigate any of your complaints though). It doesn't mean a splash more of color or contrast are anathema to me. It doesn't mean all forms physicality have to be purged and they aren't and never were in iOS and onward.

 

[Tozovac]

I actually wouldn't prefer zero vestiges of real life. Shadows are an obvious one here. There's no physical reason for objects in front of one another on a screen to cast shadows. They often do though, windows in macOS do. That popover for screenshots does. Nothing wrong with that, it visually separates one layer from another. It is a form of skeuomorph but - and this is really important part - it does not impose any kind of restriction by being so. There isn't really a better "purely digital" way (on a 2d screen) of quickly representing depth.

Thanks for the good discussion. I would disagree with your last sentence tho -- a pretty good method existed but was white-washed away wholesale in 2013. What was wrong with, say, the 3D look of iOS1-6 icons that had a little "pressable gloss" as well a little bordering to help differentiate an item from various colored backgrounds? I'd contend that shadows are pretty limiting by pretty much forcing you to light (white) backgrounds...

And currently having flat borderless one-color buttons (like cut/copy/paste) presents difficulty when using them in an app having a black background, as the "buttons" just disappear. Not to keep harping on iOS6 as if it was the be-all-end-all, but shadows & parallax were not significant improvements, they were just different ways to differentiate layers or options. But because the gloss & bordered buttons were too close to being a skeumorph and reflecting a "real life button," they were thrown out with the bathwater, making the way for something new & different but with new limitations (white-outs).

I thought I was pretty clear on my 1st post about (my opinion on) the major problem with carrying skeuomorphism too far. That is, it limits thinking, it limits flexibility. Taking an infinitely malleable 2d plane where visual metaphors can be anything you want them to be and trying to hammer how a book or a table works onto it is kinda broken thinking. Necessary, perhaps, for people to easily begin to understand at the start of each computing era, but now the training wheels are off and I don't think they are coming back.

We don't *need* a leather stitched address book or Christopher Columbus compass, and maybe never did even in 2007, but again, blurring the lines almost wholesale between actionable items & info-only items, and the over-minimizing/homogenizing things like the obliteration of vertical lines in calendar and the hiding of commands behind several buried menu clicks didn't seem as much thoughtful & balanced as just heavy-handed. Take the location control in the podcast app -- a faint horizontal line with a tiny hard-to-touch-sometimes vertical dash beneath oversized artwork for showing song length/progress succeeded doing what, I still wonder, instead of just showing a nice separate indicator placed away from the ? Does this understated minimalist indicator allow the user to stare intently at the album for 4 minutes without distraction and without going into convulsions from being distracted by a shiny "grabbable-looking slider button" in its own progress line just a few pixels beneath the album art?

Well, we'll see where 11 goes.

 

[ThunderMasterMind]

To me the iOS 6 look is awful - I much, much, much prefer the newer look. It’s simpler, easier on the eyes, looks more professional and focuses on what matters. The content.

Ok, explain to me how you focus on the content when the OS literally blends in with it making a confusing, hard to understand way. Instagram's big update in 2016 is a good example of this, why in the hell would you make the UI white to match the content. The content and UI should be different so you focus on the content and understand clearly that the content is the content and the UI is the UI, they should never cross unless the UI is part of the content... like a game for example.

Look at these two images:




What stands out in the iOS 6 app?

What stands out in the iOS 7 app?

 

[Feenician]

Ok, explain to me how you focus on the content when the OS literally blends in with it making a confusing, hard to understand way. Instagram's big update in 2016 is a good example of this, why in the hell would you make the UI white to match the content. The content and UI should be different so you focus on the content and understand clearly that the content is the content and the UI is the UI, they should never cross unless the UI is part of the content... like a game for example.

Look at these two images:


View attachment 706666 View attachment 706667

What stands out in the iOS 6 app?

What stands out in the iOS 7 app?

They both look like incredible simply dialing pads. If either confuse you perhaps a smart phone is not the right choice.

 

[Vanilla35]

Is no one going to mention the calendar app?

(http://cdn.redmondpie.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Calendar.png)

I never realized how important vertical lines were until iOS 7 lol. Especially when you have lots of events on your calendar (this picture doesn't have any)

 

[jasonklee]

Ok, explain to me how you focus on the content when the OS literally blends in with it making a confusing, hard to understand way. Instagram's big update in 2016 is a good example of this, why in the hell would you make the UI white to match the content. The content and UI should be different so you focus on the content and understand clearly that the content is the content and the UI is the UI, they should never cross unless the UI is part of the content... like a game for example.

Look at these two images:


View attachment 706666 View attachment 706667

What stands out in the iOS 6 app?

What stands out in the iOS 7 app?

Wow. iOS 7 is so much easier on the eyes. Simple, light, and aesthetic.

 

[tkermit]

This article poses the problems with ios11-7 interface purty well:

http://cheerfulsw.com/2015/destroying-apples-legacy/

In software, affordances are everything. And all affordances are made of pixels. It’s not minimalism to rip away the very things your users need.

It’s sadism.

So true. It feels like you'd have to be masochist (or a child without a plan who loves exploring) to enjoy using certain interfaces on iOS. Literally nothing of value of was gained from thoughtlessly stripping apps of their affordances. And whether that's the conscious reason for it or not, I've also some time ago uninstalled lots of apps on iOS and restrict myself to the bare essentials now. I just get annoyed by so many apps now.

 

[Vanilla35]

So true. It feels like you'd have to be masochist (or a child without a plan who loves exploring) to enjoy using certain interfaces on iOS. Literally nothing of value of was gained from thoughtlessly stripping apps of their affordances. And whether that's the conscious reason for it or not, I've also some time ago uninstalled lots of apps on iOS and restrict myself to the bare essentials now. I just get annoyed by so many apps now.

Tbh, when iOS 7 launched, and the majority of popular apps started to follow suit with their flat designs, I didn't see a single app design that took the same extreme approach as Apple did.

[doublepost=1498908419][/doublepost]I'll give you an example (see image on left). Not the biggest fan of Google overall, but I think their design for the most part is usually spot on. Here was their flat version of the Gmail app before they changed it again to match its design with Inbox app (right):

http://images.techhive.com/images/article/2016/11/gmail-ios-app-before-and-after-100691723-large.jpg

See how it has a flat design, but it still maintains foreground and background through different colors? It also keeps separation between emails by having dividing lines...has outlines for all the clickable areas. What's to hate? It's flat/modern, but it doesn't have usability sacrifices.

 

[tkermit]

Tbh, when iOS 7 launched, and the majority of popular apps started to follow suit with their flat designs, I didn't see a single app design that took the same extreme approach as Apple did.

[doublepost=1498908419][/doublepost]I'll give you an example (see image on left). Not the biggest fan of Google overall, but I think their design for the most part is usually spot on. Here was their flat version of the Gmail app before they changed it again to match its design with Inbox app (right):

http://images.techhive.com/images/article/2016/11/gmail-ios-app-before-and-after-100691723-large.jpg

See how it has a flat design, but it still maintains foreground and background through different colors? It also keeps separation between emails by having dividing lines...has outlines for all the clickable areas. What's to hate? It's flat/modern, but it doesn't have usability sacrifices.

Not exactly the most complicated of UI assignments. You'd have to really try to completely blow it, even using flat design. It's just a list of items that the user consumes. Although the version on the left seems to lack whitespace, feels constrained and sort of cluttered. I mean, I still would prefer a bit more separation between the content and the "control" area, such as in the version on the right (although in that version the red is incredibly distracting and should usually be reserved for instances of destructive actions / warnings / important indicators (see the red flag below) . No idea why they would color the button to create a message in red in the version on the left. And the actionable buttons could be easier to identify and more coherent. But it's probably not a big deal in this instance.

Deliberate use of color:

 

[Vanilla35]

Not exactly the most complicated of UI assignments. You'd have to really try to completely blow it, even using flat design. It's just a list of items that the user consumes. Although the version on the left seems to lack whitespace, feels constrained and sort of cluttered. I mean, I still would prefer a bit more separation between the content and the "control" area, such as in the version on the right (although in that version the red is incredibly distracting and should usually be reserved for instances of destructive actions / warnings / important indicators (see the red flag below) . No idea why they would color the button to create a message in red in the version on the left. And the actionable buttons could be easier to identify and more coherent. But it's probably not a big deal in this instance.


View attachment 706725

Yet I found that Apple's iOS 7 Mail app did mess it up. *see screenshot on right*

http://cdn.iphonehacks.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/mail-app-ios-10-new-features-how-to-6.jpg

Sterile white, cramped spacing, and imo a poor choice of font create a lack of definitive separation that makes sifting through and reading email more of a chore then it needs to be. I used Apple's mail app up until iOS 7, when I switched to Gmail.

 

[IvanEd747]

Is no one going to mention the calendar app?

(http://cdn.redmondpie.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Calendar.png)

I never realized how important vertical lines were until iOS 7 lol. Especially when you have lots of events on your calendar (this picture doesn't have any)

Now that you mention it, I find the previous calendar app MUCH, MUCH, MUCH more usable than the current one. I have no idea what the current calendar app does at first glance. The previous one is obvious.

 

[Tozovac]

See how it has a flat design, but it still maintains foreground and background through different colors? It also keeps separation between emails by having dividing lines...has outlines for all the clickable areas. What's to hate? It's flat/modern, but it doesn't have usability sacrifices.

This isnt terrible, but, for what it's worth, it's just not as pleasing to me. Google's attempt to make something unique (material design) still relies on light backgrounds to throw the shadow, so that really limits your ability to change backgrounds around, plus I still would prefer a darker border up top with some differentiation of buttons, and really there's no reason why the "author email" icon couldn't be up top in the border with a button. I'm not composing an email every moment I'm in a Mail app, so why float that "compose" icon constantly. Just in general, flat actionable items just make me think too much, even if it's a 10th of a second each time. It just starts to add up somehow and I feel it.
[doublepost=1498915235][/doublepost]

Now that you mention it, I find the previous calendar app MUCH, MUCH, MUCH more usable than the current one. I have no idea what the current calendar app does at first glance. The previous one is obvious.

I agree. I mentioned the calendar app about 40 posts ago in one of my initial complaints/rants - it was so amazingly terrible when iOS 7 first came out, there were times I literally felt like throwing my phone. I desperately tried to go back to iOS 6, but apple's Chinese finger torture device method of forcing upgrades with no point of return had me trapped.

 

[Vanilla35]

Now that you mention it, I find the previous calendar app MUCH, MUCH, MUCH more usable than the current one. I have no idea what the current calendar app does at first glance. The previous one is obvious.

That's the exact type of experience some of us are talking about!

 

[Tozovac]

Happy July 4th weekend! Let's all be thankful Jony Ive hasn't gotten his paws on fireworks celebrations and city views!

Apologies ahead of time for sharing a 3-D realistic view on a digital interface.

 

[Feenician]

Tbh, when iOS 7 launched, and the majority of popular apps started to follow suit with their flat designs, I didn't see a single app design that took the same extreme approach as Apple did.

[doublepost=1498908419][/doublepost]I'll give you an example (see image on left). Not the biggest fan of Google overall, but I think their design for the most part is usually spot on. Here was their flat version of the Gmail app before they changed it again to match its design with Inbox app (right):

http://images.techhive.com/images/article/2016/11/gmail-ios-app-before-and-after-100691723-large.jpg

See how it has a flat design, but it still maintains foreground and background through different colors? It also keeps separation between emails by having dividing lines...has outlines for all the clickable areas. What's to hate? It's flat/modern, but it doesn't have usability sacrifices.

These attempts to find fault are getting increasingly desperate. The design on the right actually has fewer outlines for tappable content. “WAH WAH WAH HOW COULD I POSSIBLY KNOW THE UNIVERSAL SYMBOL FOR SEARCH IS TAPPABLE?”

 

[Vanilla35]

These attempts to find fault are getting increasingly desperate. The design on the right actually has fewer outlines for tappable content. “WAH WAH WAH HOW COULD I POSSIBLY KNOW THE UNIVERSAL SYMBOL FOR SEARCH IS TAPPABLE?”

Design on the right isn't what was intended to show, I just couldn't crop it where I was set up and still upload it properly. Only the image on the left is what was in reference. I mentioned that in the post.

 

[Feenician]

Design on the right isn't what was intended to show, I just couldn't crop it where I was set up and still upload it properly. Only the image on the left is what was in reference. I mentioned that in the post.

It’s very straightforward to crop and upload on iOS. Using an alternative?

In any case the design on the right meets more of the stated criteria. More depth, color and seperation of content and control, except for a single button which is really, really obviously a button. Flogging a dead horse here.

 

[Altis]

That's the exact type of experience some of us are talking about!

I managed to get my iPhone 4S back to iOS 6 and it runs absolutely great again -- faster than my iPhone 6 when it comes to navigating around, responsiveness.

Definitely see some design elements I prefer in the older design.

iOS 9 was actually pretty good too, IMO -- not nearly as brutally slow as iOS 7. I'd have kept my iPhone 6 on 9 if I had the choice. It's been rapidly downhill since.

 

[Tozovac]

These attempts to find fault are getting increasingly desperate. The design on the right actually has fewer outlines for tappable content. “WAH WAH WAH HOW COULD I POSSIBLY KNOW THE UNIVERSAL SYMBOL FOR SEARCH IS TAPPABLE?”

This kind of sentiment is pretty disappointing to read, very reminiscent of the closed-minded thought processes that introduced design elements that many of us find to result in a very inefficient and cumbersome, unintuitive, and ultimately less enjoyable experience. I can easily respect the opinion of anybody who is extremely bothered by felt, woodgrain and stitching, but I have no respect for anybody who condescendingly looks down upon users like myself who experience a noticeably worse experience with certain UI elements that seem to be doing their best to increase the thought and time it takes to fo certain things, still without any valid rationale other than some personal preferences that something digital needs to be as stripped down as possible and different from reality because it's digital and not reality.

 

[Vanilla35]

It’s very straightforward to crop and upload on iOS. Using an alternative?

In any case the design on the right meets more of the stated criteria. More depth, color and seperation of content and control, except for a single button which is really, really obviously a button. Flogging a dead horse here.

Yeah, was on a computer where I can't download and save files, and certain websites are restricted.

 

[Feenician]

This kind of sentiment is pretty disappointing to read, very reminiscent of the closed-minded thought processes that introduced design elements that many of us find to result in a very inefficient and cumbersome, unintuitive, and ultimately less enjoyable experience. I can easily respect the opinion of anybody who is extremely bothered by felt, woodgrain and stitching, but I have no respect for anybody who condescendingly looks down upon users like myself who experience a noticeably worse experience with certain UI elements that seem to be doing their best to increase the thought and time it takes to fo certain things, still without any valid rationale other than some personal preferences that something digital needs to be as stripped down as possible and different from reality because it's digital and not reality.

And I have very little respect for someone who finds that losing a 3d border around something that is very obviously a button suddenly renders it “inefficient and cumbersome“. Literal children and pensioners can wrap their heads around it without these sort of histrionics. As for the “some personal preferences that something digital needs to be as stripped down as possible and different from reality because it's digital and not reality“ I didnt say that and I’ve corrected you on that a number of times now. Put the straw man down and step away.

 

[tkermit]

I have very little respect for someone who finds that losing a 3d border around something that is very obviously a button suddenly renders it “inefficient and cumbersome“.

See the phone jack in this screenshot. That's a button. The "IN" label next to it is not a button. The "My Songs" label is a button. How is any of that obvious?