iOS 12 and planned obsolescence

[Jack Neill]

I think planned obsolesce is any Android phone that gets next to no updates. No one forced anyone to upgrade to iOS 11. there was plenty of betas and a signing window if you didn't like it.

 

[I7guy]

Sorry, but they are trying to do that right now, in the example I posted about earlier.

Sorry, making the software faster is not indicative of anything. Apple has been optimizing various parts of ios for a few years.

 

[FeliApple]

Sorry, making the software faster is not indicative of anything. Apple has been optimizing various parts of ios for a few years.

I meant that an iPad went into recovery mode on its own and I can't get out of it. Have to forcibly restore. That's forcibly making me update...

 

[I7guy]

I meant that an iPad went into recovery mode on its own and I can't get out of it. Have to forcibly restore. That's forcibly making me update...

That's unfortunate and I can see your point on that and honestly apple should let one dfu restore to the version they were originally on.

 

[Abazigal]

If their intent is noble, why not allow the user to downgrade? I absolutely hate what they did to the home button in iOS 11. I also do not like the small stutters here and there on my older iPhones which happen on iOS 11. All I want is to be able to downgrade to an enjoyable experience. I had to buy an iPhone X because the slowdowns irked me. I am very sensitive to stuttering and performance and coupled with the lack of downgrades, this recent story about how they shipped a throttle for older iPhones without telling anyone makes me doubt their intentions. Why all this secrecy? Were they trying to avoid a recall? Why is Apple the only company incapable of supporting multiple versions?

I think there's a lot more at stake than simply downgrading.

For one, a software patch is a mix of new features and APIs, bug fixes and security patches. Allowing a user to revert to an older version means that their device is not patched against the latest bugs, and from Apple's perspective, it's an extra unsecured device they don't want.

Second, the more users are on the latest software version, the easier it is for software developers (because they don't have to code for so many different versions), plus there is more incentive for them to incorporate the latest software APIs into their apps if they know the majority of users are capable of using them.

In short, it's a fine balancing act of keeping all stakeholders happy, both Apple, the customer and app developers. I suspect Apple lumps them all together so people have to accept the bad with the good (you can't cherry-pick which updates you want and which ones you don't). You win some, you lose some, but the good will ultimately outweigh the bad.

When you buy an Apple product, you are also (tacitly) buying into Apple's "we know best" philosophy when it comes to the user experience. That it will always be Apple's vision of what a great user experience ought to entail in a product, never yours. This extends to the throttle-gate issue as well.

As with any conspiracy theory, there is always just enough truth to keep the story going. Batteries degrade over time. It stands to reason that an older Apple product will also experience deteriorating battery performance eventually. At the same time, Apple doesn't make it easy to access and replace the battery due to their industrial design principles, but I can see how one might put these two observations together and come to a conclusion that Apple is trying to foster forced obsolescence.

What I believe happened is that when Apple realised that older iPhones were randomly shutting down because of degraded batteries, they did what they felt was the most expedient solution - release a software patch to remedy this. And if phones are shutting down because they can't draw enough power from the batteries, then the most obvious fix is to reduce the power draw, which in turn means slowing down the device.

I guess this is where our interpretations of Apple's intent diverges. From Apple's perspective, a slower iphone is better than an iPhone that is unusable because it keeps rebooting. Apple is trying to make older phones usable - the opposite of forced obsolescence.

Let's look at the other options available.

1) Throttle older iPhone performance in order to prevent the devices from shutting down unexpectedly - which is precisely what they did.

2) Avoid throttling and just let the iPhones unexpectedly turn off - unacceptable from Apple's perspective, for reasons stated above.

3) Offer a battery swap program for older iPhone batteries - which is ultimately what they did, but it's inconvenient, and may not be an option for users in countries with little or poor Apple support.

4) Improve the power delivery system in order to handle deteriorating batteries - long term solution which doesn't address the immediate issue at hand.

5) Include larger batteries that can supply the needed power requirement - we are already seeing that happen with the new iPhone X design, but again, it's a long term solution which doesn't address the immediate issue at hand.

At the end of the day, I think it boils down to Apple not deeming it acceptable to leave it up to the user to choose between experiencing slower performance because of throttling and just having the iPhone shut down. That coupled with their penchant for secrecy and lack of transparency at times, makes it a breeding ground for all manner of conspiracy theories.

I still stand by my initial assertion that Apple is technically doing the right thing by throttling performance to prevent older iPhones from shutting down. In addition, we can observe that the root cause of the issue is that people are holding on to their iPhones for a longer period of time (although the iphone 7 is technically only a little more than a year old at this point), which is why we get iOS 12's focus on support for older devices.

It is what it is.

 

[matrix07]

For years people have been claiming that “new APIs” and “new features” are causing old phones to slowdown, I’d like to say that that theory is looking less and less believable. After the announcement of iOS 12, it’s more than possible to support older devices using their full potential.

Now that Apple has its PR backs against the wall with the battery throttle scandal, they magically created software capable of faster performance on older phones. This is the first time they have ever done this. Coincidence? I think not.

Apple loves when people update their devices, but they love their brand even more. Now that the brand is under attack, they are doing everything in their power to win over the trust of their consumers. iOS 12 is proof of this.

Put your tin foil hat down. This is NOT the first time. iOS 8 is faster & more stable than iOS 7 on the old hardware. Likewise, iOS 10 to iOS 9.

 

[_Refurbished_]

Put your tin foil hat down. This is NOT the first time. iOS 8 is faster & more stable than iOS 7 on the old hardware. Likewise, iOS 10 to iOS 9.

Video proof or it didn't happen.
[doublepost=1528693828][/doublepost]

I think there's a lot more at stake than simply downgrading.

For one, a software patch is a mix of new features and APIs, bug fixes and security patches. Allowing a user to revert to an older version means that their device is not patched against the latest bugs, and from Apple's perspective, it's an extra unsecured device they don't want.

Second, the more users are on the latest software version, the easier it is for software developers (because they don't have to code for so many different versions), plus there is more incentive for them to incorporate the latest software APIs into their apps if they know the majority of users are capable of using them.

In short, it's a fine balancing act of keeping all stakeholders happy, both Apple, the customer and app developers. I suspect Apple lumps them all together so people have to accept the bad with the good (you can't cherry-pick which updates you want and which ones you don't). You win some, you lose some, but the good will ultimately outweigh the bad.

When you buy an Apple product, you are also (tacitly) buying into Apple's "we know best" philosophy when it comes to the user experience. That it will always be Apple's vision of what a great user experience ought to entail in a product, never yours. This extends to the throttle-gate issue as well.

As with any conspiracy theory, there is always just enough truth to keep the story going. Batteries degrade over time. It stands to reason that an older Apple product will also experience deteriorating battery performance eventually. At the same time, Apple doesn't make it easy to access and replace the battery due to their industrial design principles, but I can see how one might put these two observations together and come to a conclusion that Apple is trying to foster forced obsolescence.

What I believe happened is that when Apple realised that older iPhones were randomly shutting down because of degraded batteries, they did what they felt was the most expedient solution - release a software patch to remedy this. And if phones are shutting down because they can't draw enough power from the batteries, then the most obvious fix is to reduce the power draw, which in turn means slowing down the device.

I guess this is where our interpretations of Apple's intent diverges. From Apple's perspective, a slower iphone is better than an iPhone that is unusable because it keeps rebooting. Apple is trying to make older phones usable - the opposite of forced obsolescence.

Let's look at the other options available.

1) Throttle older iPhone performance in order to prevent the devices from shutting down unexpectedly - which is precisely what they did.

2) Avoid throttling and just let the iPhones unexpectedly turn off - unacceptable from Apple's perspective, for reasons stated above.

3) Offer a battery swap program for older iPhone batteries - which is ultimately what they did, but it's inconvenient, and may not be an option for users in countries with little or poor Apple support.

4) Improve the power delivery system in order to handle deteriorating batteries - long term solution which doesn't address the immediate issue at hand.

5) Include larger batteries that can supply the needed power requirement - we are already seeing that happen with the new iPhone X design, but again, it's a long term solution which doesn't address the immediate issue at hand.

At the end of the day, I think it boils down to Apple not deeming it acceptable to leave it up to the user to choose between experiencing slower performance because of throttling and just having the iPhone shut down. That coupled with their penchant for secrecy and lack of transparency at times, makes it a breeding ground for all manner of conspiracy theories.

I still stand by my initial assertion that Apple is technically doing the right thing by throttling performance to prevent older iPhones from shutting down. In addition, we can observe that the root cause of the issue is that people are holding on to their iPhones for a longer period of time (although the iphone 7 is technically only a little more than a year old at this point), which is why we get iOS 12's focus on support for older devices.

It is what it is.

iOS 12 is simply a reactionary response by a corporation. Disney did the same type of thing when I worked for them and they got bad press. Corporations attempt to gloss over these types of situations. Planned obsolescence is part of the Apple experience. I am fully aware that my brand new iMac being delivered this week has an end date.

It is what it is, but I don't deny it exists.

 

[0004986]

Already posted the solution above. Support the devices for 5 years and support multiple versions of the OS and enable easy switching between them so everyone is satisfied. Let the customer decide whether the phone is fast or slow. If Google can support a 3 year OS with security updates then Apple can too. If Apple believes its software is top notch, lets see that marketing chart maintain its fragmentation with this option available.

Decouple Safari and all the stock Apple apps from the OS and place them on the App Store like how Microsoft and Google do so that users who opt to remain on iOS 8 get the latest Safari and all the app updates without slowdown or battery drain. Currently if an iPhone 6 user on iOS 8 wants to use the latest version of Safari, he has to tolerate a slower phone. Reserve OS updates for new features and optimisations of the OS.

I firmly believe Google has their update policy firmly nailed with their Pixel and Nexus series and its better than Apple. I find it more customer friendly as it does not trap or force the user to tolerate a slower phone. If I don't like something I can go back and try it out a later time

In absence of this and Apple being the only consumer company who doesn't do this and coupled with the fact that they shipped a throttle in the OS without telling anyone and conveniently the moment this scandal unfolds, they come out all guns blazing on older devices with astonishing improvements like 2X faster app launches and 70% faster camera launch, all this tells me is they were doing absolutely nothing all this time and since they were caught, this is an attempt at redemption.

You keep supporting the devices with the iOS versions that have known vulnerabilities and the iOS security would be no better than Android's. Neither you nor I understand the exact iOS design strategy so don't just blurt out some random ideas you, for some annoying reason, think would work. This is evident from the fact that you want all the "stock apps" removed. Everything is an app in iOS and you don't want people to do everything to figure out themselves. That's the core of Apple's design process. It's meant to be ready out the box.
You're essentially asking for Apple to change what makes Apple, Apple.

Apple is spending huge resources to come up with privacy tech like "Differential Privacy" and you're calling Google is customer friendly? The company that does everything in their power to sell you out to whoever's willing to pay?

Quick question: When has Apple been so up and forthcoming about anything? It's the face of being secretive.

I feel really sorry for you that you think developing a software for dozens of devices is as easy as ranting about it on a forum. Unlike Google that supports barely half a dozen devices for "3 years" at best, Apple has dozens of iPads, iPhones, iPods, Watches and Macs. And if you add all those up, the list is pretty darn huge. Also, scrapping and undoing all the new features planned for the release and to start working on performance involves a lot more work than someone let you on.
[doublepost=1528695708][/doublepost]

I will jump ship though if Google came out with a Watch and Tablet. Heck even if they do come out with just the Watch this year, I will give it a serious consideration.

Then we'd probably have less conspiracy theories being spread over here.
[doublepost=1528696482][/doublepost]

For me every new iOS version till iOS 12 has slowed down all devices I have owned. The iPhone 6 is basically unusable at this point. iPad 2 was horrible and the iOad Air 2 is starting to go the same way on iOS 11.

My brother still uses an iPhone 6 16GB and I used to use an iPhone 6 64GB myself until I swapped it sometime in November. By your logic iOS 11 wouldn't have been optimized much back in November and my iPhone 6 should be totally unusable. I'd bet my life on it that it wasn't even close to how bad you picture it. It did get slow, the boot times longer, apps take close to a second more than they used to on iOS 10 but that wasn't enough reason to upgrade for me. And remember, I bought my iPhone 6 back in 2015 so the battery capacity was around 84%.
[doublepost=1528696849][/doublepost]

Google: Watch this demo of our AI assistant place a phone call to a human and make an appointment.

Apple: This year, we're taking Animoji to a whole new level with breakthrough new technology we call Tongue Detection.

You do know Google isn't the only one that has your data right? And to Apple's credit, all the processing is done on-device unlike Google that literally knows when you're taking a bathroom break. With Google it's like your d**k picture being broadcasted in Times Square. Most people are willing to sacrifice those comforts for privacy. Remember when Alexa recorded a private conversation and texted it to some random contact?
[doublepost=1528697518][/doublepost]

Link to the video which shows iOS 11 faster than iOS 10.

[doublepost=1528697726][/doublepost]

I had to buy an iPhone X because the slowdowns irked me. I am very sensitive to stuttering and performance and coupled with the lack of downgrades, this recent story about how they shipped a throttle for older iPhones without telling anyone makes me doubt their intentions.

You mentioned quite a few times that you're on a yearly upgrade cycle and that the so called "Throttlegate" doesn't affect you. Were you just lying to your convenience or did everyone of use misread your posts?
[doublepost=1528698014][/doublepost]

You can believe that but in my opinion the fact that Apple postponed the redesign to iOS 13

You believing something with your life doesn't make it a fact. Also, you're not supposed to use the words "believe" and "fact" in the same sentence, especially when you're trying to establish credibility.

 

[matrix07]

Video proof or it didn't happen.

Let me get my DeLorean...

 

[0004986]

I meant that an iPad went into recovery mode on its own and I can't get out of it. Have to forcibly restore. That's forcibly making me update...

Your problem is a very peculiar one and there just so happened to be a code compiling error that caused it to crash into the recovery mode. That's all it was. Don't try to read between the lines when there were no lines.
FYI software doesn't crash picking a target, and I'm positive you're not handpicked for this fatal crashing of your device.

 

[Radon87000]

You keep supporting the devices with the iOS versions that have known vulnerabilities and the iOS security would be no better than Android's.

How so? Google provides security fixes for 3 year old Android Marshmallow. Apple can do the same.

And whats the use of security when the device is slow and laggy? I had 2 devices, one a Nexus 7, the other a iPad Mini 1. At that time, the Nexus was on an unsecure Android version but it was flying. On iOS 9, the iPad Mini 1 was taking 10 seconds to open YouTube. The keyboard was struggling to respond to input. Try running more than 4 tabs in Safari and they would reload but the device was secure. Whats the point though?

I prefer an insecure device with speed over a device which is secure but lags in basic tasks

Neither you nor I understand the exact iOS design strategy so don't just blurt out some random ideas you, for some annoying reason, think would work. This is evident from the fact that you want all the "stock apps" removed. Everything is an app in iOS and you don't want people to do everything to figure out themselves. That's the core of Apple's design process. It's meant to be ready out the box.
You're essentially asking for Apple to change what makes Apple, Apple.

You misunderstood me. I did not suggest "removing" the apps. I am saying, Apple should place them on the Store so that users on multiple OS versions from hereon in can enjoy app updates without updating the operating system. Another benefit of this is, features and patches are rolled out as they become ready rather than on a schedule or to meet deadlines. On Android, almost all apps have been decoupled from the OS and placed on the store. On Windows 10, almost all the apps are placed on the Store. Microsoft has also promised to put Edge on the Store at some point in the future. Its a better strategy.

Apple is spending huge resources to come up with privacy tech like "Differential Privacy" and you're calling Google is customer friendly? The company that does everything in their power to sell you out to whoever's willing to pay?

I really do not want to get in on this debate of privacy. Personally I don't mind giving all my information to Google, because their services and apps work perfectly for me. Apple's apps or assistant do not work as well for me (Siri has become terrible off late) so my iPhone might as well be a Google phone at this point. I do not want to say which is more customer friendly in this aspect as there is a tradeoff involved on both sides.

Google is more customer friendly with their devices because unlike Apple, I can freely switch between various versions of their OS and still get the latest apps and not have my device crippled. My iPad Pro is on iOS 10 because I didn't want to risk it with iOS 11. Currently iOS 12 improves things but I am not sure whether it improves things compared to iOS 10. But if I decide to go to iOS 12 and the device is slower, its a one way street. Google doesn't operate like that.

Google's devices are usable to me for a longer period of time than Apple because of their strategy. Yes their support is less but the device stays usable. The core apps are always being kept updated through the store so by missing out on the latest Android version I am not missing much.

Quick question: When has Apple been so up and forthcoming about anything? It's the face of being secretive.

Well I have a problem with that if they screw around with the speed of my device without telling me. I did not pay a thousand bucks for each of their products to have it slow down on me in a few years without informing me the reason it had slowed down. I purchased the performance of that device. I have a right to enjoy that performance

I feel really sorry for you that you think developing a software for dozens of devices is as easy as ranting about it on a forum. Unlike Google that supports barely half a dozen devices for "3 years" at best,

Google has to optimize Android not only for their own devices but also for the millions of other configurations out there. Android scales beautifully from low end right till the cutting edge. They also do not have the liberty of having their own SOC or GPU or power management chips. Its not in their hands when Qualcomm decides to drop support for their own chips. They have to work with all stakeholders to release updates.

Apple has 8 older iPhones (4 iPhone series) and 9 iPads to worry about in total. That's a very limited set of system configurations to work with and they have their very own CPU and GPU team to work with. Apple has complete control over everything unlike Google. They do not need to optimize iOS for the millions of other configurations. It only supports 10 CPU SOCs and their variants. Google CEO has pointed this out before

“It must be liberating [for Apple] to wake up and think about your device, your software, and hey, ‘I can even call the chipset guys and say what the chip should be,’” he says. “I have to think about building a platform and bringing as many people along on this journey and getting it right. I believe that ultimately it’s a more powerful approach, but it’s a lot more stressful as well.”

You have to be careful when you make a $100,000 Mercedes car not to look at rest of automotive industry and make comments on it.We serve the entire breadth of the market, globally across all form factors, et cetera"

There is a very big difference between Google's 3 years and Apple's 5 years. With Apple, if you do not like the latest update, you lose out on all the app updates and the latest apps. Not the case for Android.
After 5 years, your iOS device will lose compatibility with the latest apps and the core iOS apps like the browser and messages wont be updated any more. On Android, they will continue to be updated past 5 years.

The support on the Watch was pathetic by the way. They only supported it 1.5 years more than Motorola, a company now known for pathetic updates on Android. It was 400 bucks spent for just 2 years support. I could have gotten a 5 year supported iPad for that much cash

Also, scrapping and undoing all the new features planned for the release and to start working on performance involves a lot more work than someone let you on.

Then support a downgrade option. I fully recognize its difficult. But offer the user a way out of their predicament rather than force him to use a slower phone

My brother still uses an iPhone 6 16GB and I used to use an iPhone 6 64GB myself until I swapped it sometime in November. By your logic iOS 11 wouldn't have been optimized much back in November and my iPhone 6 should be totally unusable. I'd bet my life on it that it wasn't even close to how bad you picture it. It did get slow, the boot times longer, apps take close to a second more than they used to on iOS 10 but that wasn't enough reason to upgrade for me. And remember, I bought my iPhone 6 back in 2015 so the battery capacity was around 84%.
[

I also have an iPhone 6 right now and I know what I am talking about. Open the settings app. It takes 3 seconds before it loads. Open Photos. Takes 3 seconds. Open Safari and tap on the address bar, takes 2 seconds to pop up and when you type on it, there is a pause before all the keys are pressed simultaneously. YouTube and Uber take ages too load. Uber actually loads slower on it than it does on my Moto G. I paid 600 plus for this device 4 years ago and this is how it performs. I replaced the battery on it last year and it still barely lasts a day somehow. I cannot use such a device which cannot perform daily tasks at a reasonable speed.

You do know Google isn't the only one that has your data right? And to Apple's credit, all the processing is done on-device unlike Google that literally knows when you're taking a bathroom break. With Google it's like your d**k picture being broadcasted in Times Square. Most people are willing to sacrifice those comforts for privacy. Remember when Alexa recorded a private conversation and texted it to some random contact?

Well I really don't have a choice in the matter as Siri does not understand me nor does it provide me the luxury of pointing out the best route to work, personalized news suggestions, order tracking from Amazon, recognizing my voice. That Alexa goofup was a bug. If that was Siri, it wont even recognise my voice or say something completely irrelevant

[doublepost=1528697726][/doublepost]

Boot time- iOS 11
Calendar-iOS 11
Maps-Tie
Clock- iOS 11
Weather- iOS 10
Stocks- iOS 11
Safari- iOS 10
Health-iOS 10
App Store- Not comparable as it opened on different menus


Subway Surfers- iOS 10
Temple Run- iOS 10
Mario Run- iOS 10
Google Earth-Ios 10
YouTube- Tie
JJ-Tie

By no means is iOS 11 faster than iOS10. Especially once you take 3rd party apps into account.

This test also doesn't show stuttering and battery drain issues plaguing iOS 11. On my iPhone 7 Plus, it used to last almost a day and a half on iOS 10. As of iOS 11.4, it only lasts a day. They also slowed down the home button response on iOS 11 for it. The home button was faster on iOS 10. Which is why my iPad is still on iOS 10.3.3. It runs like a hot knife through butter on iOS 10.

If you want proof of planned obsolescence compare multiple versions of the OS simultaneously on the same device.

In particular look at the corresponding decrease in performance as you move up the OS ladder. It may be an acceptable tradeoff for features to some but I do not like the performance on iOS 11 and I want an option to revert to an OS which performs like I want it to.

You mentioned quite a few times that you're on a yearly upgrade cycle and that the so called "Throttlegate" doesn't affect you. Were you just lying to your convenience or did everyone of use misread your posts?

Yes the permanent solution I found out so as to enjoy the latest iOS at the highest speed is to get a new device every year. Previously I was on a 2 year cycle but I changed that. Throttlegate did not affect me although the Geekbench score of my 7 Plus went up after Apple released the update which stops the throttle.

You believing something with your life doesn't make it a fact. Also, you're not supposed to use the words "believe" and "fact" in the same sentence, especially when you're trying to establish credibility.

They pushed the home screen redesign to iOS 13. It was supposed to be on iOS 12. This is a fact
[doublepost=1528705628][/doublepost]

Your problem is a very peculiar one and there just so happened to be a code compiling error that caused it to crash into the recovery mode. That's all it was. Don't try to read between the lines when there were no lines.
FYI software doesn't crash picking a target, and I'm positive you're not handpicked for this fatal crashing of your device.

The point is whatever the reason it crashed, he will now have to install iOS 10 on it thanks to Apple's idiotic policies. You realize how much slower iOS 10 is than iOS 7?
​

[doublepost=1528707127][/doublepost]

I think planned obsolesce is any Android phone that gets next to no updates. No one forced anyone to upgrade to iOS 11. there was plenty of betas and a signing window if you didn't like it.

And what after the signing window is closed and you want to try it out after a few years? What if you need Apple's support on anything?

Lack of updates on Android is not planned obsolescence. People have a choice to get the Pixel if updates are a priority but they are insignificant on Android which shows people don't care about it. Android updates do not operate the same way as iOS
[doublepost=1528707469][/doublepost]

I am fully aware that my brand new iMac being delivered this week has an end date.

It is what it is, but I don't deny it exists.

Exactly, people seem to think not buying will have any impact on Apple. It wont. We are an insignificant blip to Apple. They don't give a **** whether we buy from them or not. Heck Samsung's phones were literally catching fire and yet they are still the top dog on Android today. They got away with it. Any other company like Nokia or Essential would have gotten bankrupt. Apple is so big they can get away with whatever they want.

Also planned obsolescence is unavoidable in the tech world. When I bought a GTX 1080Ti I knew fully well that NVIDIA will throw it to the wayside once Volta comes out and its performance will eventually fall below even AMD's Vega 64 a few years from now. But unfortunately AMD has no GPU which is capable of 4K or DSR gaming. Hence I am forced to support NVIDIA's practices.

 

[FeliApple]

Your problem is a very peculiar one and there just so happened to be a code compiling error that caused it to crash into the recovery mode. That's all it was. Don't try to read between the lines when there were no lines.
FYI software doesn't crash picking a target, and I'm positive you're not handpicked for this fatal crashing of your device.

I don't read between any lines. Apple isn't sending recovery mode into my iPad to force me to update. It happened, and I have no way to go back. Just let me DFU restore to the version I was in...
Point is: Apple doesn't do it on purpose, but the end result is the same.

 

[_Refurbished_]

Let me get my DeLorean...

YouTube has loads of speed videos. No need for a time machine, although a time machine would be really cool.

 

[C DM]

If their intentions are not malicious, Apple should have no problem restoring all my devices to the performance and battery life I paid for.

And yet, once again, that isn't how proofs work. Same usual roundabout circular logic.
[doublepost=1528724931][/doublepost]

Video proof or it didn't happen.

To be fair, Radon87000 has mentioned iOS 10 being better than iOS 9 on quite a few occasions. And that's coming from someone that keeps on saying that every new version is worse and slows things down compared to the previous one.
[doublepost=1528725141][/doublepost]

They pushed the home screen redesign to iOS 13. It was supposed to be on iOS 12. This is a fact

Based on? And how does that relate to any of this?

 

[Falhófnir]

Through 3rd party channels, Apple are still producing and selling the iPhone 6 - not the 6s, but the 6 before it. I presume iOS 12 is partly in order to leave these brand new devices on a stable and as fluid as possible iOS version for their owners. That's kind of the opposite of planned obsolescence isn't it?

 

[JohnnyW2K1]

Was that really what that was? Seems like it was more about sudden/spiked high power draws for peak performance that was needed at times and in those moments the more worn out batteries couldn't provide that sudden burst of higher power which led to a shutdown. Not exactly sure that's really related to badly optimized code necessarily, or to simple daily use type of things that somehow caused huge drains.

Apple aren't spending a ton of money optimising their code for iOS 12 for no reason. My SE suddenly failed when I was doing something very simple with it, and before I changed the battery it stuttered and stopped doing the most basic of tasks. Clearly it was putting too much strain on the device even doing something simple. Apple has recognised the need to optimise their code, and it's great they're doing it.

More optimised code would reduce the sudden strain on the device, and reduce the number of battery related shutdowns.

This is what happens when you're constantly adding new features (despite what some here believe, it's very difficult to add new features AND optimise the code at the same time), and I'm very glad they're addressing it with this next round of updates. It's the most excited I've been about an iOS update in ages.

 

[I7guy]

How so? Google provides security fixes for 3 year old Android Marshmallow. Apple can do the same.

And whats the use of security when the device is slow and laggy? I had 2 devices, one a Nexus 7, the other a iPad Mini 1. At that time, the Nexus was on an unsecure Android version but it was flying. On iOS 9, the iPad Mini 1 was taking 10 seconds to open YouTube. The keyboard was struggling to respond to input. Try running more than 4 tabs in Safari and they would reload but the device was secure. Whats the point though?

I prefer an insecure device with speed over a device which is secure but lags in basic tasks



You misunderstood me. I did not suggest "removing" the apps. I am saying, Apple should place them on the Store so that users on multiple OS versions from hereon in can enjoy app updates without updating the operating system. Another benefit of this is, features and patches are rolled out as they become ready rather than on a schedule or to meet deadlines. On Android, almost all apps have been decoupled from the OS and placed on the store. On Windows 10, almost all the apps are placed on the Store. Microsoft has also promised to put Edge on the Store at some point in the future. Its a better strategy.



I really do not want to get in on this debate of privacy. Personally I don't mind giving all my information to Google, because their services and apps work perfectly for me. Apple's apps or assistant do not work as well for me (Siri has become terrible off late) so my iPhone might as well be a Google phone at this point. I do not want to say which is more customer friendly in this aspect as there is a tradeoff involved on both sides.

Google is more customer friendly with their devices because unlike Apple, I can freely switch between various versions of their OS and still get the latest apps and not have my device crippled. My iPad Pro is on iOS 10 because I didn't want to risk it with iOS 11. Currently iOS 12 improves things but I am not sure whether it improves things compared to iOS 10. But if I decide to go to iOS 12 and the device is slower, its a one way street. Google doesn't operate like that.

Google's devices are usable to me for a longer period of time than Apple because of their strategy. Yes their support is less but the device stays usable. The core apps are always being kept updated through the store so by missing out on the latest Android version I am not missing much.


Well I have a problem with that if they screw around with the speed of my device without telling me. I did not pay a thousand bucks for each of their products to have it slow down on me in a few years without informing me the reason it had slowed down. I purchased the performance of that device. I have a right to enjoy that performance


Google has to optimize Android not only for their own devices but also for the millions of other configurations out there. Android scales beautifully from low end right till the cutting edge. They also do not have the liberty of having their own SOC or GPU or power management chips. Its not in their hands when Qualcomm decides to drop support for their own chips. They have to work with all stakeholders to release updates.

Apple has 8 older iPhones (4 iPhone series) and 9 iPads to worry about in total. That's a very limited set of system configurations to work with and they have their very own CPU and GPU team to work with. Apple has complete control over everything unlike Google. They do not need to optimize iOS for the millions of other configurations. It only supports 10 CPU SOCs and their variants. Google CEO has pointed this out before

“It must be liberating [for Apple] to wake up and think about your device, your software, and hey, ‘I can even call the chipset guys and say what the chip should be,’” he says. “I have to think about building a platform and bringing as many people along on this journey and getting it right. I believe that ultimately it’s a more powerful approach, but it’s a lot more stressful as well.”

You have to be careful when you make a $100,000 Mercedes car not to look at rest of automotive industry and make comments on it.We serve the entire breadth of the market, globally across all form factors, et cetera"

There is a very big difference between Google's 3 years and Apple's 5 years. With Apple, if you do not like the latest update, you lose out on all the app updates and the latest apps. Not the case for Android.
After 5 years, your iOS device will lose compatibility with the latest apps and the core iOS apps like the browser and messages wont be updated any more. On Android, they will continue to be updated past 5 years.

The support on the Watch was pathetic by the way. They only supported it 1.5 years more than Motorola, a company now known for pathetic updates on Android. It was 400 bucks spent for just 2 years support. I could have gotten a 5 year supported iPad for that much cash

Then support a downgrade option. I fully recognize its difficult. But offer the user a way out of their predicament rather than force him to use a slower phone




I also have an iPhone 6 right now and I know what I am talking about. Open the settings app. It takes 3 seconds before it loads. Open Photos. Takes 3 seconds. Open Safari and tap on the address bar, takes 2 seconds to pop up and when you type on it, there is a pause before all the keys are pressed simultaneously. YouTube and Uber take ages too load. Uber actually loads slower on it than it does on my Moto G. I paid 600 plus for this device 4 years ago and this is how it performs. I replaced the battery on it last year and it still barely lasts a day somehow. I cannot use such a device which cannot perform daily tasks at a reasonable speed.


Well I really don't have a choice in the matter as Siri does not understand me nor does it provide me the luxury of pointing out the best route to work, personalized news suggestions, order tracking from Amazon, recognizing my voice. That Alexa goofup was a bug. If that was Siri, it wont even recognise my voice or say something completely irrelevant



Boot time- iOS 11
Calendar-iOS 11
Maps-Tie
Clock- iOS 11
Weather- iOS 10
Stocks- iOS 11
Safari- iOS 10
Health-iOS 10
App Store- Not comparable as it opened on different menus


Subway Surfers- iOS 10
Temple Run- iOS 10
Mario Run- iOS 10
Google Earth-Ios 10
YouTube- Tie
JJ-Tie

By no means is iOS 11 faster than iOS10. Especially once you take 3rd party apps into account.

This test also doesn't show stuttering and battery drain issues plaguing iOS 11. On my iPhone 7 Plus, it used to last almost a day and a half on iOS 10. As of iOS 11.4, it only lasts a day. They also slowed down the home button response on iOS 11 for it. The home button was faster on iOS 10. Which is why my iPad is still on iOS 10.3.3. It runs like a hot knife through butter on iOS 10.

If you want proof of planned obsolescence compare multiple versions of the OS simultaneously on the same device.

In particular look at the corresponding decrease in performance as you move up the OS ladder. It may be an acceptable tradeoff for features to some but I do not like the performance on iOS 11 and I want an option to revert to an OS which performs like I want it to.



Yes the permanent solution I found out so as to enjoy the latest iOS at the highest speed is to get a new device every year. Previously I was on a 2 year cycle but I changed that. Throttlegate did not affect me although the Geekbench score of my 7 Plus went up after Apple released the update which stops the throttle.


They pushed the home screen redesign to iOS 13. It was supposed to be on iOS 12. This is a fact
[doublepost=1528705628][/doublepost]
The point is whatever the reason it crashed, he will now have to install iOS 10 on it thanks to Apple's idiotic policies. You realize how much slower iOS 10 is than iOS 7?
​

[doublepost=1528707127][/doublepost]
And what after the signing window is closed and you want to try it out after a few years? What if you need Apple's support on anything?

Lack of updates on Android is not planned obsolescence. People have a choice to get the Pixel if updates are a priority but they are insignificant on Android which shows people don't care about it. Android updates do not operate the same way as iOS
[doublepost=1528707469][/doublepost]

Exactly, people seem to think not buying will have any impact on Apple. It wont. We are an insignificant blip to Apple. They don't give a **** whether we buy from them or not. Heck Samsung's phones were literally catching fire and yet they are still the top dog on Android today. They got away with it. Any other company like Nokia or Essential would have gotten bankrupt. Apple is so big they can get away with whatever they want.

Also planned obsolescence is unavoidable in the tech world. When I bought a GTX 1080Ti I knew fully well that NVIDIA will throw it to the wayside once Volta comes out and its performance will eventually fall below even AMD's Vega 64 a few years from now. But unfortunately AMD has no GPU which is capable of 4K or DSR gaming. Hence I am forced to support NVIDIA's practices.

Im glad you understand planned obsolescence is the art of manufacturing so that consumers can afford the goods they buy. Differentiated from planned obsolescence is the science of sabotaging existing products in the hopes of forcing unwary consumers to purchase a newer model, which would open up apple’s deep pockets.

 

[0004986]

I prefer an insecure device with speed over a device which is secure but lags in basic tasks

But that's precisely the opposite of what Apple devices are all about. So you're free to jump the ship.

You misunderstood me. I did not suggest "removing" the apps.

I did misread your point and I apologize for that. But my explanation still holds good -- that Apple designs software as a package. And the tight integration in iOS is quintessential to the security.

Apple has 8 older iPhones (4 iPhone series) and 9 iPads to worry about in total.

You do know that regardless of the actual hardware there's practically millions of configurations on the software side with regards to how different apps interact with each other in iOS? Now imagine that for over 700 million iPhones in use out there.
And I bet you never gave a thought as to why Google has to dramatically change the way Android functions -- almost rebuilding from the ground up -- every year. It's because software isn't perfect and a work in progress. It doesn't just work that way. Takes a lot of iterations especially with so many devices in use.
Even for every few thousand people -- that's being liberal -- suffering from problems, there are millions of others that don't have any problems with the iPhones at all. That constitutes to maybe 2-5%?

If that was Siri, it wont even recognise my voice or say something completely irrelevant

Isn't it better than your sex-tape ending up in the inbox of your colleague or Google knowing what goes on in your bedroom? Satire aside, I do agree that Siri is crappy when it comes to understanding other accents and those of Google's and Amazon's are far superior. Not sure why they couldn't sort this out though.

If you want proof of planned obsolescence compare multiple versions of the OS simultaneously on the same device.

Before you do any of that, you should understand that each version update adds thousands of lines of code w/ CPU intensive tasks on the same old processor. It's like expecting to build a mansion for the price of a studio apartment. You need appropriate human resources and the money to get it done right.

They pushed the home screen redesign to iOS 13. It was supposed to be on iOS 12. This is a fact

I assume you have some relevant written court documents to back your statement?! And if you have nothing but some internet articles, it's nothing more than a conspiracy theory at this point.

You realize how much slower iOS 10 is than iOS 7?

You realize iOS 10 came 3 years after iOS 7 and that it includes a boatload of functionality?

We are an insignificant blip to Apple.

Precisely my point when it comes to the people who are actually having issues compared to those who don't.

 

[d5aqoëp]

I meant that an iPad went into recovery mode on its own and I can't get out of it. Have to forcibly restore. That's forcibly making me update...

Be honest! Was your iPad Jailbroken?

If yes, that explains why it went into recovery mode. The same thing has happened to me in the past.

 

[FeliApple]

Be honest! Was your iPad Jailbroken?

If yes, that explains why it went into recovery mode. The same thing has happened to me in the past.

Nope. Never was, never will be. And also, the restore failed. Maybe it's hardware, I don't know.

 

[Radon87000]

And yet, once again, that isn't how proofs work. Same usual roundabout circular logic.

Tomorrow Apple could literally slow down all iPhones except the X to a crawl and you would still be here saying until and unless Apple themselves come out and say "Yes, we have been maliciously slowing down iPhones so that you buy new ones" there is no proof.

Actions speak louder than words, and we have seen Apple's actions

Based on? And how does that relate to any of this?

https://appleinsider.com/articles/1...-to-focus-on-performance-reliability---report

Employees were told of plans to delay the features at a meeting with software chief Craig Federighi earlier this month, according to Axios. It was said that improvements to core apps like Mail, enhancements to the Camera app, and additions for photo editing and sharing were also on the chopping block.

Separately, AppleInsider was also informed by sources Tuesday morning that the company held an "unusual" meeting recently with its development team, though details on what was said in the meeting were not provided.

Because of the changes, the anticipated "iOS 12" update will feature additional focus on the stability of the operating system that drives iPhone and iPad.

Im glad you understand planned obsolescence is the art of manufacturing so that consumers can afford the goods they buy. Differentiated from planned obsolescence is the science of sabotaging existing products in the hopes of forcing unwary consumers to purchase a newer model, which would open up apple’s deep pockets.

Planned Obsolescence is the intentional slowdown of older products and trapping them on a version with no way out. If Samsung can get out of exploding batteries, planned obsolescence is a piece of cake for Apple.

But that's precisely the opposite of what Apple devices are all about. So you're free to jump the ship.

So Apple devices are made to be secure but the cost of that security is a slowdown as the years pass by. Is this correct?

I did misread your point and I apologize for that. But my explanation still holds good -- that Apple designs software as a package. And the tight integration in iOS is quintessential to the security.

Putting apps on the store does not mean less integration. Even now if you uninstall any of Apple's stock apps, you need to visit the App Store to download it again. They need to fully place it on the store so it can be updated for the users of older devices. I know its a customer friendly move which Apple likely wont implement as it gives one less reason to buy a newer device.

There is absolutely no difference between Apple's stock apps on iOS and Google's stock apps on Android with the Android having the advantage of constant updates. Any security issues or new features are implemented as they come rather than sticking to deadlines. It helps to avoid releases like iOS 11 which were a nightmare at the beginning.

You do know that regardless of the actual hardware there's practically millions of configurations on the software side with regards to how different apps interact with each other in iOS? Now imagine that for over 700 million iPhones in use out there.

Same situation over on Android with the countless Android devices. App developers also have a limited number of screen size or aspect ratios to code for. Unlike Android, apps on iOS run in a sandbox meaning they don't communicate with each other.

Qualcomm, Mediatek, Samsung Exynos, Intel Atom, all Android versions dating right back till Android 4.0. You have the varying number of aspect ratios to think of. On Android, a limited number of devices support DCI-P3 color gamut unlike iOS. Devs and Android has to support both. There is an infinite combination of RAM,CPUs on Android. There are more Androids than iOS devices

Android also runs reasonably well on mid range devices compared to iOS. My 2015 Moto G runs better than my iPhone 6 on an older Android version

And I bet you never gave a thought as to why Google has to dramatically change the way Android functions -- almost rebuilding from the ground up -- every year. It's because software isn't perfect and a work in progress. It doesn't just work that way. Takes a lot of iterations especially with so many devices in use.

Of course it is but unlike iOS, my observation is Google's releases treat older devices better than how iOS does

This is Android P's first developer preview running on a Pixel XL and consistently beating or matching Android O on a PixelXL including third party apps. In particular look at the super fast home button response and the fast animations

This is Android P beating/matching Android Nougat on a Pixel XL.Its matching a 2 year old operating system in speed.

This is Android Oreo running faster or matching Nougat in speed.

In the case of Android, if you will observe the difference in speed is extremely negligible and even if a device is faster its not by much.

If you watch the speed tests of every Android version pitted against its own 2/3 year old counterpart, the difference in speed is very marginal very unlike iOS.

Even for every few thousand people -- that's being liberal -- suffering from problems, there are millions of others that don't have any problems with the iPhones at all. That constitutes to maybe 2-5%?

But the point isn't how many are suffering from a problem. The discussion is concerned with whether a slowdown exists. Throttlegate affected a limited number of iPhones. Apple admitted there is a problem. Touch Disease affects a very limited number of iPhones. APple admits the problem exists

Isn't it better than your sex-tape ending up in the inbox of your colleague or Google knowing what goes on in your bedroom? Satire aside, I do agree that Siri is crappy when it comes to understanding other accents and those of Google's and Amazon's are far superior. Not sure why they couldn't sort this out though.

I recently bought an Echo and its never happened for me so far so it doesn't bother me. Siri is out of the question for me because Apple's services just aren't as accurate as Google's for me and they do not work with Windows. I use Chrome, Maps, Google Keep, Google News and Gmail and Google now and Assistant integrate with all of them very well

Before you do any of that, you should understand that each version update adds thousands of lines of code w/ CPU intensive tasks on the same old processor. It's like expecting to build a mansion for the price of a studio apartment. You need appropriate human resources and the money to get it done right.
You realize iOS 10 came 3 years after iOS 7 and that it includes a boatload of functionality?

This is whats the thread is about. The thing is I want to disable or uninstall those features which are crippling my devices. I will take a device with 10 features and blistering speed over a device with 100 features which takes 10 seconds to open basic apps like Uber and Facebook.

When I had an older video card I dialed down the visual settings on many games to keep the framerate above 60. I can enable all those visual features and play at 40 fps. But its a very unenjoyable experience.
If I were to relate this to gaming, what Apple does is the equivalent of NVIDIA forcing all games to run at max settings even on older GPUs under the garb of advanced visuals and forcing me to get a new card so I can enjoy the performance I was getting when the card in question was new

I assume you have some relevant written court documents to back your statement?! And if you have nothing but some internet articles, it's nothing more than a conspiracy theory at this point.

A letter written to employees which is factual

Precisely my point when it comes to the people who are actually having issues compared to those who don't.

[/QUOTE]

The number of people affected by a problem isn't a factor in determining whether a problem exists
​

 

[C DM]

Tomorrow Apple could literally slow down all iPhones except the X to a crawl and you would still be here saying until and unless Apple themselves come out and say "Yes, we have been maliciously slowing down iPhones so that you buy new ones" there is no proof.

Actions speak louder than words, and we have seen Apple's actions

Extreme hypotheticals don't really change what I brought up.

 

[Radon87000]

Extreme hypotheticals don't really change what I brought up.

You aren't answering the question. Am I correct in saying that if Apple tomorrow slowed down iPhone 7 to a crawl it wont be planned obsolescence?

 

[C DM]

A letter written to employees which is factual

What's the letter?
[doublepost=1528906692][/doublepost]

You aren't answering the question. Am I correct in saying that if Apple tomorrow slowed down iPhone 7 to a crawl it wont be planned obsolescence?

With a combination of a loaded question, on top of a strawman, all on a slippery slope seems like you are going down the very textbook path of pure deflection.

 

[Radon87000]

What's the letter?

Software head Craig Federighi announced the revised plan to employees at a meeting earlier this month, shortly before he and some top lieutenants headed to a company offsite.

On the cutting board: Pushed into 2019 are a number of features including a refresh of the home screen and in-car user interfaces, improvements to core apps like mail and updates to the picture-taking, photo editing and sharing experiences.

https://www.axios.com/scoop-apple-d...421-d7722a3b-402e-4804-8f24-719154bf2a8e.html

[doublepost=1528906692][/doublepost]
With a combination of a loaded question, on top of a strawman, all on a slippery slope seems like you are going down the very textbook path of pure deflection.

I am getting down to the crux of the argument. Your saying that trapping a device on a newer iOS versions which is slower is not planned obsolescence. Apple is not going to outright come out and admit they have maliciously slowed down devices. With Throttlegate they did come close, but you again argue that their shipping a throttle in the update which has a convenient consequence of a newer phone in addition to playing with people's beliefs that as a phone ages, it must become slow, does not mean that their intent was malicious.

In other words, I can only conclude that short of Apple destroying the phone in some way, you will not accept their intent on the basis of their action