iOS 12 and planned obsolescence

[Radon87000]

Number of things.

• Saying customers are wary after throttlegate is a strawman. It's typical of generalized statements that projects one feelings unto the tens of millions. In that vein, I can confidently say, customers don't care.

The news about Throttlegate was published in every major newspaper throughout the world and the headlines weren't mincing any words criticizing Apple on their policies. So those who are not into tech and just go out and buy a new phone because the current is slow also got to know about it. Apple was scared to the point it not only slashed the battery prices it refunded the amount to those who weren't affected by throttlegate at all(like me) and this is coming from a profits first company like Apple run by a bean counter CEO who saves cost on stuff like the screws on a VESA Mount and the LED on a Mac laptop. So yes, judging by Apple's reaction, they thought customers did care.

There is no "damage" as you put it regarding ios 11. That again is a strawman as I can confidently say customers are not thinking that.

Its got the highest number of issues ever faced by an iOS release. It permanently destroyed the battery life of my older 7 Plus beyond repair and my iPad Air 2 is going the way of the dodo after loading it. Hopefully iOS 12 will breathe some life into them as its working solid so far on the X

Today's turbo 2 liter cars are almost faster than yesteryear's V8. Did the auto manufacturers purposely slow yesteryears' cars? Same for touched 2.

In my opinion, every multinational juggernaut has something to hide and that applies doubly so to the market leaders in every sector. So many of them l engage in planned obsolescence imo. Past flagships are purposely kept handicapped in a certain aspect so as to induce upgrades. Apple has done it on the X with the lack of RAM. Future releases are going to run badly on it.

The bigger the company the more successful the strategy.

That planned obsolescence will not work with Microsoft because they allow you to hack their systems, does not mean MS does not engage in p/o. Seems like there is a double standard. But it you can live without security patches, more power to you.

I am not hacking their system. I purchased a product key for Windows on a single PC. I deregistered the key from the slow PC and registered it on a new one. Microsoft received 0 from me.

Question to you, do you like a secure PC which is unusable or an unsecure device which flies and is a joy to use?

Apple launching ios 13 on a schedule is not indicative of planned obsolescence. I know for a fact Microsoft never released anything half-baked before it's time.

Microsoft used to release unoptimized builds before Windows 10. So far all their Windows 10 builds are solid. Microsoft does not need to follow deadlines. A recent instance would be when they delayed April 2018 update by a month as it wasn't meeting their reliability standards. If that was Apple, it would be released and fixed a month later in a new build. A side effect of this is a customer dissatisfied with the release
[doublepost=1529166716][/doublepost]

I take it you don't realize that nothing is "simple" about maintaining several versions of operating systems. You probably also don't realize that Apple already has to customize each iOS release for each iOS device. Modem firmwares, GPU drivers, 3D Touch, Face ID/Touch ID, dual cameras, WiFi vs cellular, and the list goes on. Ensuring compatibility across several different devices and different generations of those different devices is no small feat, even when you control the hardware variations like Apple does. Even Microsoft, the king of legacy compatibility, is trying to push everyone from Windows 7 to Windows 10 while making it extremely difficult to stay on an older version of Windows 10.



Desktop and laptop CPUs haven't gained all that much speed in the last seven or so years. Take some of Intel's top performing CPUs over the years- the 2018 Core i7-8700k is only around 60% faster than 2011's Core i7-2700k. Smartphone CPUs have made tremendous gains in the same time frame. The A11 in the iPhone X/8/8 Plus is around 2000% faster than the A5 released in 2011. To compare that with the oldest supported device in iOS 12, the A11 is around 500% faster than the A7 used in 2013's iPhone 5s.

There's no grand conspiracy here- it takes a lot of effort to make newer versions of iOS with more features run smoothly on older and significantly slower hardware. It took a year of Apple focusing on performance to get where they did with iOS 12, and that has caused some people to lament the lack of new features that iOS 12 has to offer. It's a tradeoff that had to be made, but it's a tradeoff nonetheless.

Apple has more cash than the GDP of Finland, which is the 41st richest country in the world. 10 iPhones the internals of which are all custom Apple made to fit components. The combinations you listed are absolutely childs play for a company with the resources of Apple especially if you consider what Google has on their plate with Android.

 

[I7guy]

The news about Throttlegate was published in every major newspaper throughout the world and the headlines weren't mincing any words criticizing Apple on their policies. So those who are not into tech and just go out and buy a new phone because the current is slow also got to know about it. Apple was scared to the point it not only slashed the battery prices it refunded the amount to those who weren't affected by throttlegate at all(like me) and this is coming from a profits first company like Apple run by a bean counter CEO who saves cost on stuff like the screws on a VESA Mount and the LED on a Mac laptop. So yes, judging by Apple's reaction, they thought customers did care.

It's still a strawman as one can't prove how many really cared about the power management. One can't project their own feelings against the masses. The remainder of your post is conjecture as you cannot prove what you say; e.g. "apple was scared". So while this is a solid hyperbolic piece in real life it may not be so.

Its got the highest number of issues ever faced by an iOS release. It permanently destroyed the battery life of my older 7 Plus beyond repair and my iPad Air 2 is going the way of the dodo after loading it. Hopefully iOS 12 will breathe some life into them as its working solid so far on the X

Can you prove that statement. And can you categorize the issues by severity and quantity. A stutter is not the same as an OTA update bricking devices, for example.

In my opinion, every multinational juggernaut has something to hide and that applies doubly so to the market leaders in every sector. So many of them l engage in planned obsolescence imo. Past flagships are purposely kept handicapped in a certain aspect so as to induce upgrades. Apple has done it on the X with the lack of RAM. Future releases are going to run badly on it.

The bigger the company the more successful the strategy.

I agree every company engages in planned obsolescence as to allow their products to be sold affordably. This is different than the meme of planned obsolescence where companies maliciously sabotage their products to generate new sales.

I am not hacking their system. I purchased a product key for Windows on a single PC. I deregistered the key from the slow PC and registered it on a new one. Microsoft received 0 from me.

Yes you are hacking their system.

Question to you, do you like a secure PC which is unusable or an unsecure device which flies and is a joy to use?

Define unusable. People say the ipad 2 on 9.3.5 is unusable, yet mine is very usable.

Microsoft used to release unoptimized builds before Windows 10. So far all their Windows 10 builds are solid. Microsoft does not need to follow deadlines. A recent instance would be when they delayed April 2018 update by a month as it wasn't meeting their reliability standards. If that was Apple, it would be released and fixed a month later in a new build. A side effect of this is a customer dissatisfied with the release
[doublepost=1529166716][/doublepost]

Apple has more cash than the GDP of Finland, which is the 41st richest country in the world. 10 iPhones the internals of which are all custom Apple made to fit components. The combinations you listed are absolutely childs play for a company with the resources of Apple especially if you consider what Google has on their plate with Android.

Still has nothing to do with your "assertion" that apple allegedly moving up optimizations to ios 12 has anything to do with planned obsolescence as in sabotaging hardware through software to get new sales for suckers who upgrade due to "slow performance". The "claim" it's child's play is a false equivalency.

 

[Tubamajuba]

Yes, it's difficult, but it's not beyond the biggest computing company in the world. Not least because it's made much easier by the fact that Apple controls the hardware: They know exactly the CPU/GPU power they can write for. Poor Microsoft have to cover a near infinite number of hardware combinations and still make sure it runs as well as possible. And they do.

Take one look at any support forum for Windows 10 and you'll see people complaining about a laundry list of issues with the April update. Most people (myself included) haven't had much trouble with 1803, but it just goes to show you that Microsoft isn't immune from problems. Indeed, iOS has less issues with upgrading and installing because Apple limits the kinds of hardware it can run on.

Desktop and laptop CPUs have increased in power in precisely the same way they always have. Here's a great video discussing it:

I really don't see anything in that video that refutes what I said. I never said that computers aren't getting faster, I said that the rate of progress is much slower.

As for mobile speeds:

iPhone 5S scores: Geekbench 4 (64-Bit One Core): 1266
iPhone X scores: Geekbench 4 (64-Bit One Core): 4193

This is a speed increase of 231.2%, nowhere near the "500%" you claim.

Source: https://everyi.com/ibenchmarks/index-ipod-iphone-ipad-benchmarks.html

https://everyi.com/ibenchmarks/index-ipod-iphone-ipad-benchmarks.html

I was referring to the multi-core benchmarks (5s: 2143, X: 10127) whereas you are referring to the single-core benchmarks. Still, I appreciate you bringing that up, because either way I did my math wrong- it's a 373% increase between the multi-core scores

The final bit of proof that it is possible for Apple to take the time to write for older devices is that they're finally doing it with iOS 12. I think this is is a wonderful thing, and I'm glad the "gimme new features" crowd has become less noisy of late.

Give me a great experience... I have all the features I need!

I completely agree with you here. iOS already does enough things, now I want it to run as smoothly as possible.

Sorry but you know jack.

Geekbench:

i7 2700k
Multi Core - 13k

8700k
Multi Core - 26k

100% as fast.

Now, Core i5 760 (perfectly fine for most non production/gaming stuff and runs everything just fine)
Multi Core - 6500

So going from a Core i5 760 to 8700k, is like a 300% performance boost. And both are perfectly fine for regular stuff most folks do.

Coming to iOS:

iPhone 5s
Multi Core - 2k

iPhone X
Multi Core - 10k

But a more realistic comparison would be with the 6s or 7

7
Multi Core - 5.5k

Going from 2k to 5.5k leads to a night and day difference in just scrolling the home screen.

While most people won’t even upgrade from the 6.5k to 23k PC unless they are gamers or professionals.

If you have average or better intelligence, you’ll be able to make the correct deduction from here.

First of all, no need to insult anyone's intelligence. I should have taken my numbers from Geekbench for the Core i7 comparisons, but I didn't. I used the UserBenchmark website. I prefer your numbers in any case, so I'll happily go with the 100% difference between the two. Other than that, I don't see how you're saying anything drastically different from what I was saying.

 

[rafark]

If you read what I wrote I was saying the reason windows 10 still runs on old intel chips is that windows 10 is a re-skinned windows xp.

Windows 10 is a re-skinned Windows xp in my humble opinion, which is why it runs on old intel hardware.

Have you read Windows source code? You could say ios is a re-skin of osx.

 

[CTHarrryH]

Remember also that different versions of software for different models of phones would potentially require application developers to develop and support different versions of their software. Enough issues already with getting all apps to 64 bit.

 

[I7guy]

Have you read Windows source code? You could say ios is a re-skin of osx.

I’m discussing as a windows user not software developer. But yeah, you could say a similar thing to iOS.

 

[Radon87000]

It's still a strawman as one can't prove how many really cared about the power management. One can't project their own feelings against the masses. The remainder of your post is conjecture as you cannot prove what you say; e.g. "apple was scared". So while this is a solid hyperbolic piece in real life it may not be so.

When a company resorts to refunds especially one on a mass scale and even for those who had no connection to the issue whatsoever, yes they were scared. If they weren't scared, they would simply have kept their mouth shut like with Touch Disease and charge money to get something fixed which was their own fault. Apple will not part with millions of dollars unless they were scared. Just look how desperate they are for the penalty in the Samsung case, the amount of which is peanuts to Apple.

Can you prove that statement. And can you categorize the issues by severity and quantity. A stutter is not the same as an OTA update bricking devices, for example.

Battery life was halved by iOS 11. Went from 1.5 days to barely a day. This is with moderate usage. Severity level- High

Long delays on basic tasks on an iPad Air 2. Opening settings takes 3 seconds. Stuttering while scrolling through the app switcher. When long pressing on the control centre icons the animation of zooming in is not 100% smooth. Load times in third party apps have shown at least a 1.5x increase.

iOS 11 has the new year fiasco. iOS 11 had the bricking issue on 11.3. iOS 11 had 3DT stutter. iOS 11 had countless autocorrect crashes. I really cant think of a single release in the past 5 years which was this bad. iOS 9 is up there but iOS 11 takes the cake

I agree every company engages in planned obsolescence as to allow their products to be sold affordably. This is different than the meme of planned obsolescence where companies maliciously sabotage their products to generate new sales.

Its not technically sabotage if you are not doing anything. Apple simply doesn't bother optimising for older phones as there isn't any incentive for them to do so. The fact that app launch times on iOS 12 on an iPhone 6 show a 200% increase reflects they were sitting on their asses doing nothing all this time

Yes you are hacking their system.

Can you explain how migrating a single PC license key from one PC to another is hacking?

Define unusable. People say the ipad 2 on 9.3.5 is unusable, yet mine is very usable.

Off the top of my head the following characteristics make a device unusable to me

- Not being able to keep more than 4 Safari tabs in memory
- Taking 8 seconds to open basic settings
- Taking 10 seconds to open basic apps like YouTube and Netflix
- Constant animation stutters
- Half day battery life
- Input lag on they keyboard as it struggles to catch up with the typing speed
- Not being able to hold more than 3 apps in memory

 

[I7guy]

When a company resorts to refunds especially one on a mass scale and even for those who had no connection to the issue whatsoever, yes they were scared. If they weren't scared, they would simply have kept their mouth shut like with Touch Disease and charge money to get something fixed which was their own fault. Apple will not part with millions of dollars unless they were scared. Just look how desperate they are for the penalty in the Samsung case, the amount of which is peanuts to Apple.

Starting off by “when a company” means some good logical fallacies are about to be committed. Companies resort to refunds and gift certificates, it's not an unheard of goodwill gesture. Similar to the cases for antennagate. Apple was not "scared" and unless one is in the inner circle, does not know Apple's decision making process. They have to resources to fight all lawsuits, they are not "scared". Bending and abusing the phones is not apple's fault, no more than shattering of the glass screen. Apple under Tim Cook attempts to do right with it's customers, not run "scared" of lawsuits".

Battery life was halved by iOS 11. Went from 1.5 days to barely a day. This is with moderate usage. Severity level- High

Long delays on basic tasks on an iPad Air 2. Opening settings takes 3 seconds. Stuttering while scrolling through the app switcher. When long pressing on the control centre icons the animation of zooming in is not 100% smooth. Load times in third party apps have shown at least a 1.5x increase.

iOS 11 has the new year fiasco. iOS 11 had the bricking issue on 11.3. iOS 11 had 3DT stutter. iOS 11 had countless autocorrect crashes. I really cant think of a single release in the past 5 years which was this bad. iOS 9 is up there but iOS 11 takes the cake

There was no widespread bricking issue in ios 11.3 and my battery life on 11.4.1b1 is stellar. Apple goes through cycles of releases where battery life varies, there is nothing new. And various issues across various releases are nothing new.

Additionally, it is well known there are always various complaints across various devices for various ios releases across many, many years. Again, nothing new.

Its not technically sabotage if you are not doing anything. Apple simply doesn't bother optimising for older phones as there isn't any incentive for them to do so. The fact that app launch times on iOS 12 on an iPhone 6 show a 200% increase reflects they were sitting on their asses doing nothing all this time

Basically the performance of my iphones has been the same across the various releases. ios 9 had a big jump in safari usability for me and according to the benchmarks. ios 12 is simply clean-up of a lot of underlying code. The same thing people claim that windows 10 did.

Can you explain how migrating a single PC license key from one PC to another is hacking?

Can you explain how you installed an older release of Windows 10.

Off the top of my head the following characteristics make a device unusable to me

- Not being able to keep more than 4 Safari tabs in memory
- Taking 8 seconds to open basic settings
- Taking 10 seconds to open basic apps like YouTube and Netflix
- Constant animation stutters
- Half day battery life
- Input lag on they keyboard as it struggles to catch up with the typing speed
- Not being able to hold more than 3 apps in memory

That would make my device unusable to me as well. If in fact, my device had those annoying traits. However, the ipad 2 is a 2011 device, not a 2017 device and as such I don't expect the performance parity. However, I can't say anything takes 10 seconds to load on the ipad 2, or even 5 seconds. But none of my current devices suffer from your list, which seems to go in with various people experience various differences with various releases across the years.

 

[FeliApple]

Off the top of my head the following characteristics make a device unusable to me

- Not being able to keep more than 4 Safari tabs in memory
- Taking 8 seconds to open basic settings
- Taking 10 seconds to open basic apps like YouTube and Netflix
- Constant animation stutters
- Half day battery life
- Input lag on they keyboard as it struggles to catch up with the typing speed
- Not being able to hold more than 3 apps in memory

The keyboard lag is SO annoying. I have seen it in a few iPod Touch 5G updated to iOS 9 and a few iPad Mini 1 updated to iOS 9, too. I am a slow typist as I don't know how to touch type, but that works on my iPad, so I type pretty decently on it. When I used this iPad Mini 1, I took thrice as long due to massive input lag. No thanks.
I don't use a lot of tabs but it must be able to keep 5. I don't need 10, but updated iPads can't even keep 4.
Animation stutters are annoying too if really frequent.
What makes these problems worse, is that I'm used to keeping initial iOS versions, so I am used to devices working properly. I probably notice these issues more than others who get used to devices being progressively slower with each iOS update and only notice these things when they are TOO awful.

 

[IowaLynn]

Remember also that different versions of software for different models of phones would potentially require application developers to develop and support different versions of their software. Enough issues already with getting all apps to 64 bit.

I thought SWIFT 4.x and Xcode would set fall to create the proper code. Moving to 64-bit meant no need for universal binary, smaller file. As to what libraries get attached either then or later, yes, but not huge issue. And experience with a given compiler and hardware base can and should result in 25-40% improvements over time. Of course having more memory (4GB would be nice, faster storage, and improved system on a chip along with improvement in A11+ help.

 

[Radon87000]

Starting off by “when a company” means some good logical fallacies are about to be committed. Companies resort to refunds and gift certificates, it's not an unheard of goodwill gesture. Similar to the cases for antennagate. Apple was not "scared" and unless one is in the inner circle, does not know Apple's decision making process. They have to resources to fight all lawsuits, they are not "scared". Bending and abusing the phones is not apple's fault, no more than shattering of the glass screen. Apple under Tim Cook attempts to do right with it's customers, not run "scared" of lawsuits".

No company refunds money unless they are scared or there is a scandal or a recall. If it was a goodwill gesture they could have done the same for Touch Disease which is again their own fault. No doubt the amount of users still on an iPhone 6 is too low to affect the bottom line which is why they did not issue refunds for that. They aren't scared of the lawsuits. They are more scared about the information that will be revealed during the lawsuits becoming common knowledge (for example- they knew about Touch DIsease and they shipped iPhone 6 without telling anyone EXACTLY like how they did with Throttlergate) and the lawsuits will cause more people to know about the issue.

There was no widespread bricking issue in ios 11.3 and my battery life on 11.4.1b1 is stellar. Apple goes through cycles of releases where battery life varies, there is nothing new. And various issues across various releases are nothing new.

The new year bug did brick many phones. 11.3 bricked phones which hwere having third party screen replacements.

Battery life has not varied much in iOS 11. Its been almost the same, barring an hour or so of improvement from 11.0 till 11.4.1 and it does not last as long as it did on iOS 10 which was almost 5-6 hours more.

iOS 10 does factually have higher battery life

Additionally, it is well known there are always various complaints across various devices for various ios releases across many, many years. Again, nothing new.

iOS 8 and iOS 10 did not have this many issues plaguing iOS 11

Basically the performance of my iphones has been the same across the various releases. ios 9 had a big jump in safari usability for me and according to the benchmarks. ios 12 is simply clean-up of a lot of underlying code. The same thing people claim that windows 10 did.

We are on 11.4 and there is a 5 page thread in the iPhone section on how 11.4 has destroyed battery life on older iPhones and this is the current status on the last builds of iOS 11

iOS 9 was a massive fail and the performance videos clearly show a clear decline in performance from iOS 8. iOS 10 was needed to fix iOS 9 just like how iOS 12 is needed to fix iOS 11.

Can you explain how you installed an older release of Windows 10.

https://www.howtogeek.com/220723/how-to-uninstall-windows-10-and-downgrade-to-windows-7-or-8.1/

"
Assuming you have an old computer you upgraded to Windows 10, that computer previously had Windows 7 or 8.1 on it. That means that computer came with a product key that allows you to use Windows 7 or 8.1 on it. If you can’t downgrade to your old version (maybe it’s been to long, or maybe something went wrong with your downgrade attempt), you’ll have to perform a clean install of Windows—something PC geeks often do on new computers, anyway.


Thankfully, Microsoft now offers easy downloads for Windows 7 and 8.1 ISO files. Download the Windows installation media and burn the ISO file to a disc or copy it to a USB drive using Microsoft’s Windows USB/DVD download tool. You can then boot from it and reinstall Windows 7 or 8.1 fresh, telling it to overwrite the Windows 10 system already on your hard drive. Be sure you have backup copies of all your important files from your Windows 10 PC first."


Downgrading Windows never involved hacking.


Again, the fact that they achieved a 200% improvement in app launch times on an ancient device like the iPhone 6 proves what we have been saying all along. They were doing nothing all this time so people would get annoyed and buy a newer device. They shipped throttles for something which was their own fault (defective batteries) and hoped no one would notice. Neither Samsung nor Google throttle their devices which further proves they were defective. Once they were caught, they issued refunds to win back customer loyalty and iOS 12 is the cherry on the cake to show the owners of older devices that they have turned over a new leaf.

 

[C DM]

Again, the fact that they achieved a 200% improvement in app launch times on an ancient device like the iPhone 6 proves what we have been saying all along. They were doing nothing all this time so people would get annoyed and buy a newer device. They shipped throttles for something which was their own fault (defective batteries) and hoped no one would notice. Neither Samsung nor Google throttle their devices which further proves they were defective. Once they were caught, they issued refunds to win back customer loyalty and iOS 12 is the cherry on the cake to show the owners of older devices that they have turned over a new leaf.

That isn't how proofs work. Suppositions, certainly, but not proofs.

 

[I7guy]

No company refunds money unless they are scared or there is a scandal or a recall. If it was a goodwill gesture they could have done the same for Touch Disease which is again their own fault. No doubt the amount of users still on an iPhone 6 is too low to affect the bottom line which is why they did not issue refunds for that. They aren't scared of the lawsuits. They are more scared about the information that will be revealed during the lawsuits becoming common knowledge (for example- they knew about Touch DIsease and they shipped iPhone 6 without telling anyone EXACTLY like how they did with Throttlergate) and the lawsuits will cause more people to know about the issue.

Is this opinion and conjecture, or fact? And if it's a fact, then per the rules, provide some evidence. Companies issue goodwill refunds. It's a fact. Apple is under no obligation to pick and choose from YOUR list of things to provide goodwill for.

The new year bug did brick many phones. 11.3 bricked phones which hwere having third party screen replacements.

Exactly the same as an ios 8 OTA update bricking the phones.

Battery life has not varied much in iOS 11. Its been almost the same, barring an hour or so of improvement from 11.0 till 11.4.1 and it does not last as long as it did on iOS 10 which was almost 5-6 hours more.

iOS 10 does factually have higher battery life

iOS 8 and iOS 10 did not have this many issues plaguing iOS 11

ios 11.4.1 fixes all this for those who claim to have battery life issues. This fits into the differing users, differing phones, differing releases reporting differing results.

We are on 11.4 and there is a 5 page thread in the iPhone section on how 11.4 has destroyed battery life on older iPhones and this is the current status on the last builds of iOS 11

iOS 9 was a massive fail and the performance videos clearly show a clear decline in performance from iOS 8. iOS 10 was needed to fix iOS 9 just like how iOS 12 is needed to fix iOS 11.

How many users on ios 11? Tens of millions maybe. A few page thread basically is noise to the amount to users, not indicative of any trends that can be deduced on a massive scale. Performance of ios 9 GM was getter than ios 8.4.1. IOS 12 will fix the niggling underlying issues that need addressing, in the same way people said, windows 10 addressed the niggling underlying issues of windows that had to be addressed.

https://www.howtogeek.com/220723/how-to-uninstall-windows-10-and-downgrade-to-windows-7-or-8.1/

"
Assuming you have an old computer you upgraded to Windows 10, that computer previously had Windows 7 or 8.1 on it. That means that computer came with a product key that allows you to use Windows 7 or 8.1 on it. If you can’t downgrade to your old version (maybe it’s been to long, or maybe something went wrong with your downgrade attempt), you’ll have to perform a clean install of Windows—something PC geeks often do on new computers, anyway.


Thankfully, Microsoft now offers easy downloads for Windows 7 and 8.1 ISO files. Download the Windows installation media and burn the ISO file to a disc or copy it to a USB drive using Microsoft’s Windows USB/DVD download tool. You can then boot from it and reinstall Windows 7 or 8.1 fresh, telling it to overwrite the Windows 10 system already on your hard drive. Be sure you have backup copies of all your important files from your Windows 10 PC first."


Downgrading Windows never involved hacking.

I thought we were discussing installing any release of windows 10 that you want....not downgrading.

Again, the fact that they achieved a 200% improvement in app launch times on an ancient device like the iPhone 6 proves what we have been saying all along. They were doing nothing all this time so people would get annoyed and buy a newer device. They shipped throttles for something which was their own fault (defective batteries) and hoped no one would notice. Neither Samsung nor Google throttle their devices which further proves they were defective. Once they were caught, they issued refunds to win back customer loyalty and iOS 12 is the cherry on the cake to show the owners of older devices that they have turned over a new leaf.

So apple engaged in malicious sabotage of older devices to force new sales in the past, they turned over a new leaf with ios 12 and who knows what the future holds?

Can you prove any of your allegations of apple and provide a link to a trustworthy source quoting apple management, or is it your opinion?

 

[IowaLynn]

No but https://swift.org/blog/swift-4-1-released/
https://www.infoworld.com/article/3...lopment/what-to-expect-in-apples-swift-5.html
https://9to5mac.com/2018/03/29/swift-4-1-minor-update/
https://ericasadun.com/2017/08/08/s...e-implementations-for-language-change-review/
https://insights.dice.com/2018/04/02/swift-4-1-version-5-abi-stability/

All reasons why we will / should see noticeable improvements.

 

[nickgovier]

.

 

[WaruiKoohii]

For years people have been claiming that “new APIs” and “new features” are causing old phones to slowdown, I’d like to say that that theory is looking less and less believable. After the announcement of iOS 12, it’s more than possible to support older devices using their full potential.

Now that Apple has its PR backs against the wall with the battery throttle scandal, they magically created software capable of faster performance on older phones. This is the first time they have ever done this. Coincidence? I think not.

Apple loves when people update their devices, but they love their brand even more. Now that the brand is under attack, they are doing everything in their power to win over the trust of their consumers. iOS 12 is proof of this.

"Planned Obsolescence" has been a ridiculous idea the entire time people have been throwing it around.

Hardware advances at a rapid pace and software advances to take advantage of it. That's it. Software could still be stuck in the MS-DOS days, or the iOS 1.0 days, and our old 486s and iPhone 3Gs would work just as well as they did back then. But instead we choose to build more capable software that, unfortunately, just won't run on antique hardware.

 

[_Refurbished_]

"Planned Obsolescence" has been a ridiculous idea the entire time people have been throwing it around.

Hardware advances at a rapid pace and software advances to take advantage of it. That's it. Software could still be stuck in the MS-DOS days, or the iOS 1.0 days, and our old 486s and iPhone 3Gs would work just as well as they did back then. But instead we choose to build more capable software that, unfortunately, just won't run on antique hardware.

The problem with that theory, and what makes it ridiculous, is that software doesn't advance at the pace you're envisioning. Three or four year old hardware should be able to run newer versions of a similar OS equally as well as the OS the device was released on. iOS 12 is proving that older devices are more than capable of running a modern version of iOS efficiently.

Apple has unlimited resources, this is not a resource problem. Apple makes money by selling you new iPhones. It is what it is, but it's real.

 

[C DM]

Apple has unlimited resources, this is not a resource problem.

That isn't really the case nor how it actually works in business (or basically the real world). Things come at a cost somewhere, it's basically down to managing costs and risks while providing something new to attract more customers (a lot of whom are fairly different than most who are on forums like this one).

 

[Radon87000]

Development resource is finite. In my view Apple has been so focused on cramming new (often unnecessary) features into each annual iOS release that genuine optimisation has had to be deprioritised. It's not laziness, or a conscious attempt to make older devices run slower, but a simple result of a focus on more features above anything else. iOS has become more bloated and unoptimised over time, partly concealed by launching alongside new hardware each year, which provides a simultaneous and offsetting performance boost.

It's really no surprise to me that, with a whole year spent optimising the current codebase rather than adding even more unnecessary feature bloat, the iOS team have managed to find significant speed increases. I consider that fantastic as a SE owner and long overdue, but I don't think they spent the entire year removing all the secret empty loops from the codebase that were deliberately designed to slow old hardware down...

"Planned Obsolescence" has been a ridiculous idea the entire time people have been throwing it around.

Hardware advances at a rapid pace and software advances to take advantage of it. That's it. Software could still be stuck in the MS-DOS days, or the iOS 1.0 days, and our old 486s and iPhone 3Gs would work just as well as they did back then. But instead we choose to build more capable software that, unfortunately, just won't run on antique hardware.

That's all fine and good but when we say Apple engages in planned obsolescence, we mean Apple forces us to upgrade to these feature packed unoptimised releases and force us to tolerate a slower OS for the sake of features I am never going to use. I really don't give damn about Memoji, Animoji, AR, the Stocks app, or those Live Photos or heavy transparency graphical affects if it results in 2-3 seconds increase in load times across all apps or a reduction in battery life. I want a way back to a release which works for a change.
[doublepost=1529433188][/doublepost]

That isn't really the case nor how it actually works in business (or basically the real world). Things come at a cost somewhere, it's basically down to managing costs and risks while providing something new to attract more customers (a lot of whom are fairly different than most who are on forums like this one).

Their cash in bank is equivalent to the 41st richest country on the planet. The word cost should be irrelevant to them. Apple has more than enough resources to support multiple releases with security updates and to optimise iOS. The Mac lineup is dead. The iPad lineup isn't going to be updated for 15 months. Apple=iOS. Where are the resources going? If they can develop Memojis after 1 full year, they most certainly can optimise for older devices
[doublepost=1529433806][/doublepost]

Is this opinion and conjecture, or fact? And if it's a fact, then per the rules, provide some evidence. Companies issue goodwill refunds. It's a fact. Apple is under no obligation to pick and choose from YOUR list of things to provide goodwill for.

Fundamental principle of business. Companies only give refunds when they have something to lose and that something is worse than the alternative they resorted to. Apple is not a charity here. They gave refunds because they were scared of customer backlash.

Exactly the same as an ios 8 OTA update bricking the phones.

Your only issue about iOS 8 is bricking which was fixed till 8.1. The releases from there till 8.4.1 didn't have any battery issues or slowdowns. iOS 11 not only has the bricking issue, it comes with slowdowns, battery drains, crashing to boot.

How many users on ios 11? Tens of millions maybe.


A few page thread basically is noise to the amount to users, not indicative of any trends that can be deduced on a massive scale.

And how many were affected by Throttlegate which Apple has publically acknowledged? It must be a blip on the radar but Apple acknowledged the fact that there was a problem. We don't need everyone to have problems to conclude there is a problem

I thought we were discussing installing any release of windows 10 that you want....not downgrading.

that same method can be used to install any Windows 10 release. Download ISO of the build and make a bootable drive and overwrite your system files with it.

So apple engaged in malicious sabotage of older devices to force new sales in the past, they turned over a new leaf with ios 12 and who knows what the future holds?

Can you prove any of your allegations of apple and provide a link to a trustworthy source quoting apple management, or is it your opinion?

Fact-

iOS 12 is the first release in a decade wherein 12.0 matches/surpasses 11.4.1 in speed. iOS 12 beta has better battery life than iOS 11.4.1 again a first in a decade. iOS 12 is the first release in a decade which has Apple mentioning iPhone 6 on the release notes which is the very device affected by Throttlegate.

All this happened after Throttlegate. Its clear why Apple did what it did.

As I said earlier Apple will not admit to what I said as the moment they do, the sales will come crashing down. I am reading their actions and correlating with their recent scandals to draw a conclusion.

 

[I7guy]

That's all fine and good but when we say Apple engages in planned obsolescence, we mean Apple forces us to upgrade to these feature packed unoptimised releases and force us to tolerate a slower OS for the sake of features I am never going to use. I really don't give damn about Memoji, Animoji, AR, the Stocks app, or those Live Photos or heavy transparency graphical affects if it results in 2-3 seconds increase in load times across all apps or a reduction in battery life. I want a way back to a release which works for a change.
[doublepost=1529433188][/doublepost]

Their cash in bank is equivalent to the 41st richest country on the planet. The word cost should be irrelevant to them. Apple has more than enough resources to support multiple releases with security updates and to optimise iOS. The Mac lineup is dead. The iPad lineup isn't going to be updated for 15 months. Apple=iOS. Where are the resources going? If they can develop Memojis after 1 full year, they most certainly can optimise for older devices
[doublepost=1529433806][/doublepost]
Fundamental principle of business. Companies only give refunds when they have something to lose and that something is worse than the alternative they resorted to. Apple is not a charity here. They gave refunds because they were scared of customer backlash.



Your only issue about iOS 8 is bricking which was fixed till 8.1. The releases from there till 8.4.1 didn't have any battery issues or slowdowns. iOS 11 not only has the bricking issue, it comes with slowdowns, battery drains, crashing to boot.



And how many were affected by Throttlegate which Apple has publically acknowledged? It must be a blip on the radar but Apple acknowledged the fact that there was a problem. We don't need everyone to have problems to conclude there is a problem





that same method can be used to install any Windows 10 release. Download ISO of the build and make a bootable drive and overwrite your system files with it.



Fact-

iOS 12 is the first release in a decade wherein 12.0 matches/surpasses 11.4.1 in speed. iOS 12 beta has better battery life than iOS 11.4.1 again a first in a decade. iOS 12 is the first release in a decade which has Apple mentioning iPhone 6 on the release notes which is the very device affected by Throttlegate.

All this happened after Throttlegate. Its clear why Apple did what it did.

As I said earlier Apple will not admit to what I said as the moment they do, the sales will come crashing down. I am reading their actions and correlating with their recent scandals to draw a conclusion.

Way too much hyperbole.
Need to prove:

• Apple forced anybody to either upgrade or buy a new device
• That your fundamental principle of business isn’t a straw man.
• That Apple was scared
• That the masses were indeed affected by power management and they all bought new device.
• That iOS 8 was better than iOS 11, which it wasn’t.
• 
  
• Fact
• iOS 9 was better than iOS 8.4.1.
• Was faster and better battery
• iOS 12 is concentrating on the underpinnings. iOS 11.4.1 is very, very good. Likewise ios 12 will be better than iOS 11. Natural progression of things.
• It’s great you draw a conclusion which is an opinion. Not everybody shares that.

 

[_Refurbished_]

That isn't really the case nor how it actually works in business (or basically the real world). Things come at a cost somewhere, it's basically down to managing costs and risks while providing something new to attract more customers (a lot of whom are fairly different than most who are on forums like this one).

This is not a resources problem. How is that statement incorrect? You, yourself, said that Apple entices people with new products...which is exactly what I'm saying .

I want to go to this real world you speak of!?

 

[soundslikeaudio]

I was referring to the multi-core benchmarks (5s: 2143, X: 10127) whereas you are referring to the single-core benchmarks. Still, I appreciate you bringing that up, because either way I did my math wrong- it's a 373% increase between the multi-core scores.

First of all, no need to insult anyone's intelligence. I should have taken my numbers from Geekbench for the Core i7 comparisons, but I didn't. I used the UserBenchmark website. I prefer your numbers in any case, so I'll happily go with the 100% difference between the two. Other than that, I don't see how you're saying anything drastically different from what I was saying.

Actually the single core speeds are the most interesting. The difference between what’s going on with mobile processors versus on the desktop is that in instructions per cycle (IPC) mobile processors are still gaining substantially between generations, whereas the overall difference between generations of an Intel processor tends to be approx 5-10% since Sandy Bridge (2600/2700k). Going with the high end of 10%, IPC from sandy bridge to today MIGHT (and using a 2600k based machine for audio production, from what I’ve seen in real world use it has not) be as high as 77%. Maybe. My more realistic estimate is closer to 40-50%. From the A10 to A11 Apple’s high efficiency cores increased by 25%, with a negligible increase in max clockspeed of .05ghz. To get the 100% increase you’re seeing between between a 2700k and a 8700k Intel had to increase base clock from 3.5ghz to 4.0ghz and add two cores. Hell, add two more cores to a Sandy Bridge chip and you’d bridge about 50% of that increase and OC to 4ghz (an 18% increase by itself) and you’ll see that IPC may only be accounting for 32% of that increase across 6 generations. Apple almost did that in one with the A11, and has done so in the past. So while yes desktops have increased in power, but not as much through architectural advancement as has happened in mobile.

 

[oldmacs]

• iOS 9 was better than iOS 8.4.1.

It was slower in almost every way. iOS 9 was one of the worst releases, promised performance improvements but just made everything worse.
[doublepost=1529460389][/doublepost]

• That Apple was scared

Apple didn't address the battery issue till they were caught out.

• iOS 12 is concentrating on the underpinnings. iOS 11.4.1 is very, very good. Likewise ios 12 will be better than iOS 11. Natural progression of things.

iOS 11.4 is bearable. iOS 11 has been terrible from the start. Took till 11.3 to even get animations reliably rendering on the iPad Pro 10.5. There is no natural progression.

• It’s great you draw a conclusion which is an opinion. Not everybody shares that.

But apparently your conclusions are fact?

 

[I7guy]

It was slower in almost every way. iOS 9 was one of the worst releases, promised performance improvements but just made everything worse.

IMO, IOS 9 was better. Better is subjective. Worse is subjective. Performance improvements, benchmarks of GM proves otherwise.

Apple didn't address the battery issue till they were caught out.

That's supposition. Nobody knows the exact timing of what transpired within apple.

iOS 11.4 is bearable. iOS 11 has been terrible from the start. Took till 11.3 to even get animations reliably rendering on the iPad Pro 10.5. There is no natural progression.

ios 11.4.1 is quite good and more than bearable. Every release had it's thing and this release is no different.

But apparently your conclusions are fact?

All facts have been backed with some evidence, as opposed to the conjecture that's been thrown around as fact.

 

[duffman9000]

Apple has unlimited resources, this is not a resource problem. Apple makes money by selling you new iPhones. It is what it is, but it's real.

This is a common misconception about software engineering. I suggest reading The Mythical Man Month. I'll give you the cliffs: more chefs does not always make your meal better.