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iOS 12 and planned obsolescence

aevan said:
More like, now they decided to dedicate resources to making it work better instead of partaking in a feature race wirh Google. This is why iOS 12 is feature-light.

As I already said, I don’t think it was planned obsolescence, more like not caring about obsolescence. Now they are forced to care. I am glad they changed their way, but I seriously doubt anyone put some slow-down code intentionally (other than that battery feature). As for smoke? There is smoke because that’s human perception for you. This “planned obsolescence” is easier to comprehend and accept than a more complex reason of design politics, limited resources (especially for a company like Apple where people wrongly assume these resources are near limitless), etc. Also, it is in human nature to be sceptical, and we’re also very cynical about technology.

The truth, however, is that they didn’t intentionally make older devices slower, they just didn’t care enough that they were getting slower as a side result. Now they have to care - yay!
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When they decided not to care about older devices it was an active choice on their part and they knew perfectly well the consequence of a slow device is a newer phone. Hence we say its planned. Also just because they changed their ways for iOS 12 doesn't mean it will stay that way forever. The jury is still out on whether they resume their old strategy once iOS 13 launches.
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C DM said:
So then a malicious conspiracy to specifically make things worse for customers wouldn't logically follow that as alienating customers isn't financially sound. Glad we got that logic finally sorted out.
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There is a widespread belief amongst customers that devices slow down as they age (which is incorrect). This is reflected on pretty much any computing device and planned obsolescence plays into that belief which is why Apple gets away with it.
 
aevan said:
More like, now they decided to dedicate resources to making it work better instead of partaking in a feature race wirh Google. This is why iOS 12 is feature-light.
Click to expand...
Maybe it wasn't important to them, and maybe there wasn't an official edict to say make the older devices run slower but it was in apple's best interest to degrade older iphones to highlight and promote new iPhones. They already got the hand caught in the till with slowing the phones down because of the battery, and I think because of that, anything they say now is not going to be very believable for many people including myself.
 
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maflynn said:
Maybe it wasn't important to them, and maybe there wasn't an official edict to say make the older devices run slower but it was in apple's best interest to degrade older iphones to highlight and promote new iPhones. They already got the hand caught in the till with slowing the phones down because of the battery, and I think because of that, anything they say now is not going to be very believable for many people including myself.
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Which is exactly why iOS 12 was launched with the performance tagline for older phones as Apple knows this perfectly well and its an attempt at redemption before it impacts future sales.
 
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maflynn said:
Now we find out that apple is making incredible performance strides to allow older devices to run like new again, sorry but there's more to them streamlinng APIs or suddenly discovering some old ineffecient code.
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You're partly right. Some of it is indeed refactoring or reinventing inefficient code. A big part of it is a fundamental change to the CPU scheduler. Improved memory allocation strategies appear to be the third big tentpole.

You might be interested in watching this WWDC session which explains what Apple have done in Cocoa Touch for iOS 12 this year to improve performance for the OS, and all applications running on it. It's pretty interesting.

https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2018/202/
 
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Radon87000 said:
But those benchmarks don't reflect real word usage. Safari on the iPhone X scores higher than Safari on my iPad Pro but practically there is zero difference while using them. The RX Vega 64 ties with the 1080ti in some synthetic benchmarks but its laughable to even compare the 2. Google Chrome on Windows laptops scores higher in almost all benchmarks than Microsoft Edge but anyone with a Precision trackpad will tell you Edge runs much smoother than chrome. Geekbench, 3DMark are all useful to find out raw hardware performance but they do not reflect real world smoothness and stability.
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Those benchmarks are just as real usage as anything else. Since in the past you brought up saving milliseconds, the benchmarks do say the work IOS does is faster on IOS 9 GM than ios 8.4.1. To me that type of savings is important as the difference adds up over time. The youtube videos that are touted here as a measure of "real world performance" aren't really real world wither.

There was no throttling on Android and if there is it can easily be detected and reversed by overclocking. Regardless Samsung and Motorola have specifically stated they don't throttle their phones.
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From what people have posted, android phones just turn off. I would rather have power management.

Apple shipping a throttle in my phone which slows it down without telling me is akin to shipping malware inside the system. My iPad Air 2 is slow for instance on iOS 11. I am blaming iOS 11 for it. Is it possible there is some component inside which is faulty? I am not an engineer to know all this stuff. The shutdown would in fact be beneficial as it would at least let me know something is wrong with my battery and I can go to the store to get it fixed.
Unfortunately this results in $100 revenue for Apple as opposed to $999 which was no doubt factored into the decision to keep it a secret.
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Didn't apple say it was introducing power management in ios 10.3.3? My 6s is very fine on ios 11.4.1 and I am crediting IOS 11 for it. It works both ways.

Apple did it intentionally to induce upgrades to the iPhone X as having both side by side its clear the iPhone X smokes the home button iPhone in any action. After using the iOS 10 home button the new one is literally unusable to me. Its the main reason why my iPad Pro is still on 10.
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Is this an opinion or fact. I don't think you can prove this as a fact with any certainty. And, you a welcome to keep whatever version of ios you want on whatever devices you have. All of my devices are on the practically latest versions as high as they can go.

Anyone who uses Android or has used iOS 10 will detest the new home button.
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Not a true statement. I have no issues with the home button on ios 11 vs ios 10 on any of my devices; including the iphone 7.
 
I7guy said:
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Didn't apple say it was introducing power management in ios 10.3.3? My 6s is very fine on ios 11.4.1 and I am crediting IOS 11 for it. It works both ways.
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Wouldn't, as an example of throttling+heavier OS resource usage, which results in slowness, my iPhone 6s on iOS 9.3.3 be faster than yours on iOS 11? Should be. I tried a 6s on iOS 11 that while it isn't awful, is it certainly slower than mine.
 
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FeliApple said:
Wouldn't, as an example of throttling+heavier OS resource usage, which results in slowness, my iPhone 6s on iOS 9.3.3 be faster than yours on iOS 11? Should be. I tried a 6s on iOS 11 that while it isn't awful, is it certainly slower than mine.
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Why should the phone be slower? Apple has been implementing improvements according to the keynote above. Lots of deep in the bowels o/s enhancements. iOS 11.4.1 is likely it and it is very nice. (Also given many security holes were patched) Safari fast scrolling is just big improvement.
 
I7guy said:
Why should the phone be slower? Apple has been implementing improvements according to the keynote above. Lots of deep in the bowels o/s enhancements. iOS 11.4.1 is likely it and it is very nice. (Also given many security holes were patched) Safari fast scrolling is just big improvement.
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What I mean is, it might be somewhat fine for you or others - I didn't say it wasn't. It worked decently well - but it is certainly slower.
 
FeliApple said:
What I mean is, it might be somewhat fine for you or others - I didn't say it wasn't. It worked decently well - but it is certainly slower.
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We can certainly debate what slower is. Given I use Safari a lot the scrolling makes it faster then iOS 9.3, which was introduced in iOS 10 I believe. Slower/faster is subjective based on use case. No doubt though iOS 9 under the covers is faster than iOS 8.
 
I7guy said:
We can certainly debate what slower is. Given I use Safari a lot the scrolling makes it faster then iOS 9.3, which was introduced in iOS 10 I believe. Slower/faster is subjective based on use case. No doubt though iOS 9 under the covers is faster than iOS 8.
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I have always conceded Safari improvements. Safari on iOS 6 (my iPod Touch 5G) is so slow and crashes all the time... While an iPod Touch 5G on iOS 9 is unbearable everywhere - even on Safari - but Safari is FAR faster on iOS 9 (even though - due to device age, and compared to what I use - it is slow for me) compared to iOS 6 (using that is really unbearable. Crashes every 30 seconds with modern websites).
 
Feenician said:
You're partly right. Some of it is indeed refactoring or reinventing inefficient code. A big part of it is a fundamental change to the CPU scheduler. Improved memory allocation strategies appear to be the third big tentpole.

You might be interested in watching this WWDC session which explains what Apple have done in Cocoa Touch for iOS 12 this year to improve performance for the OS, and all applications running on it. It's pretty interesting.

https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2018/202/
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Yes. Only done after the Throttlegate fiasco. That’s the point. We have been tolerating the slowdown for years on end and its only now when their reputation was getting dragged through the mud, they decided to focus on older devices for once.
 
FeliApple said:
What I mean is, it might be somewhat fine for you or others - I didn't say it wasn't. It worked decently well - but it is certainly slower.
Click to expand...

Most definitely. Even ios 12 isn’t as fast as ios 10.3.3. I have ios 10 as a point of reference and it isn’t there yet.
 
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I7guy said:
Those benchmarks are just as real usage as anything else. Since in the past you brought up saving milliseconds, the benchmarks do say the work IOS does is faster on IOS 9 GM than ios 8.4.1. To me that type of savings is important as the difference adds up over time. The youtube videos that are touted here as a measure of "real world performance" aren't really real world wither.
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Then can you explain why Edge is smoother in real world despite scoring lower in every benchmark?
Can you explain why RX Vega 64 ties 1080ti in many synthetic benchmarks but loses in the real world?

Can you explain these inferior load times in ios 9?
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/201...t-worse-than-ios-8-but-missing-many-features/


From what people have posted, android phones just turn off. I would rather have power management.
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When I pay for a 1000 dollar phone I do have enough money to get a new battery. So when the Android phone shuts down I will go to the store, get the battery replaced and enjoy my life. What Apple did was slow down the phone and made using the phone an annoyance. I know which is better.

Do you have any evidence of large scale shutdowns on Android? Did any company issue refunds?


Didn't apple say it was introducing power management in ios 10.3.3? My 6s is very fine on ios 11.4.1 and I am crediting IOS 11 for it. It works both ways.
Click to expand...

I want to know exactly what’s happening on my phone. Apple did not tell the customer the phone was being slowed down. I am sure many customers like me would have much dealt with a $100 battery than a slowdown. Conveniently we ordered a newer phone before this scandal came to light.

Is this an opinion or fact. I don't think you can prove this as a fact with any certainty. And, you a welcome to keep whatever version of ios you want on whatever devices you have. All of my devices are on the practically latest versions as high as they can go.
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A fact because in my case I bought a new phone because of that lousy home button. If I can do it, there’s many worldwide who can do it.


Not a true statement. I have no issues with the home button on ios 11 vs ios 10 on any of my devices; including the iphone 7.
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I have iOS 10, Android and iOS 11 devices for reference. The slowest of the bunch is the iOS 11 device. I have also confirmed this on the Apple Store iPhones.
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I7guy said:
We can certainly debate what slower is. Given I use Safari a lot the scrolling makes it faster then iOS 9.3, which was introduced in iOS 10 I believe. Slower/faster is subjective based on use case. No doubt though iOS 9 under the covers is faster than iOS 8.
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My experience mirrors Feliapple. Each of my devices is slower on iOS 11.
 
Radon87000 said:
A fact because in my case I bought a new phone because of that lousy home button. If I can do it, there’s many worldwide who can do it.
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Please demonstrate that many have. (Not that any of that would say anything about any potential intentions relating or behind it on Apple's part.)
 
Radon87000 said:
Then can you explain why Edge is smoother in real world despite scoring lower in every benchmark?
Can you explain why RX Vega 64 ties 1080ti in many synthetic benchmarks but loses in the real world?

Can you explain these inferior load times in ios 9?
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/201...t-worse-than-ios-8-but-missing-many-features/



When I pay for a 1000 dollar phone I do have enough money to get a new battery. So when the Android phone shuts down I will go to the store, get the battery replaced and enjoy my life. What Apple did was slow down the phone and made using the phone an annoyance. I know which is better.

Do you have any evidence of large scale shutdowns on Android? Did any company issue refunds?




I want to know exactly what’s happening on my phone. Apple did not tell the customer the phone was being slowed down. I am sure many customers like me would have much dealt with a $100 battery than a slowdown. Conveniently we ordered a newer phone before this scandal came to light.


A fact because in my case I bought a new phone because of that lousy home button. If I can do it, there’s many worldwide who can do it.




I have iOS 10, Android and iOS 11 devices for reference. The slowest of the bunch is the iOS 11 device. I have also confirmed this on the Apple Store iPhones.
[doublepost=1529561202][/doublepost]

My experience mirrors Feliapple. Each of my devices is slower on iOS 11.
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To recap, since this is all over the place.
  • ios 9 was factually faster than ios 8. Anecdotally/subjectively there are different opinions.
  • ios 11 is factually faster then ios 9. Anecdotally/subjectively there are different opinions.
  • I can explain about edge, but am not going into another windows extended discussion.
  • I don't have to explain ios 9 inferior load times, you have to explain ios 9 benchmarks that show ios 8 is superior.
  • Whatever you think of power management, I credit apple for the functionality, the explanation needed work. I would rather have a slow phone, than a dead phone as android people claim.
  • I don't care what is happening on my phone as long as it just works. Period.
  • The milliseconds you claim to have lost on the home button, I gain with performance improvements in ios 11.
  • You can run your unpatched ios 10 devices. ios 11.4.1b3 (albeit late) is very good.
  • Anecdotally right/wrong the internet is big and you can always find someone who mirrors or disproves your anecdotal experience.
Think that sums it up.:):apple:
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Radon87000 said:
Yes. Only done after the Throttlegate fiasco. That’s the point. We have been tolerating the slowdown for years on end and its only now when their reputation was getting dragged through the mud, they decided to focus on older devices for once.
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Yes, it's a fact there were some updates in ios 12 discussed at wwdc. But that says nothing about the intention behind it, and whether apple was "scared" or not.
 
Radon87000 said:
Common sense. A device slows down. People buy a new one. It's really simple. There is only one way to escape the lag. Either that or like me

View attachment 767155
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We aren't talking about something just plain common and general slowdown of device. We are talking about fraction of a second increase in the response time of a button. Please demonstrate that many not have only noticed it, but cared so much about it that it was a driving factor in them upgrading their device. And that they were so outraged by Apple doing it on purpose that they decided to give more money to Apple. (None of which, once again, would still establish anything as to actual potential intent on Apple's part.)
 
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C DM said:
We aren't talking about something just plain common and general slowdown of device. We are talking about fraction of a second increase in the response time of a button. Please demonstrate that many not have only noticed it, but cared so much about it that it was a driving factor in them upgrading their device. And that they were so outraged by Apple doing it on purpose that they decided to give more money to Apple. (None of which, once again, would still establish anything as to actual potential intent on Apple's part.)
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An iPod Touch 5G on iOS 9 isn't just a fraction of a second on the home button. Literally, when I press either button to access the lock screen, the device takes several seconds to show the lock screen. Of course, it's almost immediate on my iPod Touch 5G on iOS 6.
PD, fun fact: my iPod Touch 5G on iOS 6 is several seconds faster to boot from being off, than an iPhone 6s and an iPad Pro 9.7 on iOS 9, an iPhone 7+ on iOS 10, and - of course - an iPhone 6s running iOS 11.
 
FeliApple said:
An iPod Touch 5G on iOS 9 isn't just a fraction of a second on the home button. Literally, when I press either button to access the lock screen, the device takes several seconds to show the lock screen. Of course, it's almost immediate on my iPod Touch 5G on iOS 6.
PD, fun fact: my iPod Touch 5G on iOS 6 is several seconds faster to boot from being off, than an iPhone 6s and an iPad Pro 9.7 on iOS 9, an iPhone 7+ on iOS 10, and - of course - an iPhone 6s running iOS 11.
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But that's not what we are talking about there. We are specifically talking about the home button delay in iOS 11 on an iPhone 7.
 
C DM said:
But that's not what we are talking about there. We are specifically talking about the home button delay in iOS 11 on an iPhone 7.
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Apologies, you are right. I didn't read everything, and thought you were referring to it in a more general sense. (More specifically, I thought Radon was referring to it in a more general sense in the post you quoted).
 
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