What if everything is slower? App launch, boot times, showing lock screen from being locked, apps crash because the system takes too many resources, performance even of native apps is worse, animations stutter, devices freeze, etc, etc, etc.
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iOS 12 and planned obsolescence
- Thread starter _Refurbished_
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But that video doesn’t show what you are saying. My experience is that iOS 11 performance is quite kn the acceptable side as iOS 7 was for how I use it for the devices I use.
The video showed results all over the place basically refuting the anecdotal interpretation of “planned obsolescence “.
Okay, then we won't agree. I used updated devices and they faltered heavily. You find that performance acceptable - although it doesn't mean it isn't slower - and it's ok, too. Cheers.
There's definitely overuse of the "destroyed", "unusable", etc. type of unnecessary absolute and extreme hyperbole, on top of mislabeling of many things as "proof" or "fact".
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Certainly we all have different tolerances for what we consider acceptable performance.
I see absolutely zero need to have to wait for any computing device to do simple tasks in 2018. There shouldn't be a single task that can be done quicker on an older iPhone running the iOS of its time. This is my personal view as nothing is more frustrating using a device than when it either ignores input or you have to wait needlessly for it.
When my 4S was on iOS 9, it couldn't even input letters with the keyboard without lagging out and causing a mess, or input the 4-digit pin without missing numbers. Skipping tracks in Music took 3-5 seconds. Fortunately, a jailbreak let me get back to iOS 6 where it did most things faster than my iPhone 6 does on iOS 10.
My iPhone 8 is acceptably quick in most regards on iOS 11, but we'll see how iOS 12 does on it.
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You seem to think that people are claiming that Apple is slowing the hardware down, but I don't see anyone making that argument at all (except for the obvious case when they did with throttlegate).
What we're saying is that the software (namely iOS) is bogging down the hardware to the point where it runs poorly -- ie. takes longer for the OS to respond/register inputs, load/change apps, change tracks, etc.
Throttlegate is the one exception where it is clear that Apple did indeed secretly slow the hardware down based on "battery health" (even while the battery was above the 80% threshold where they consider the battery to be "Healthy" and would not replace, even by request). Of course, since people are used to iOS updates causing their devices to perform more slowly, it didn't seem abnormal.
Phones running slowly is arguably one of the most compelling reasons why people upgrade their otherwise good phones. It was the only reason I replaced my iPhone 6 with the 8 -- I couldn't stand the input-blocking delays any longer.
What I’m saying is that I haven’t seen any real measurable speed degradation starting from iOS 7 on my 5s through iOS 12. The video link bears this out for the devices I use.
I agree, no waiting on a 2108 device in 2018. YMMV will vary in a 2011 device in 2108, like the iPad 2. May not be quick as greased lightning but it is far from destroyed.
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Exactly. His definitions of unusable and slow is different. It's just like in games. Some people find 40fps playable. I get a headache at anything below 60 which is why I need to stay on the cutting edge of video card hardware every 2 years or so. I found the iPad 2 running iOS 9 to be one of the worst pieces of computing equipment I have ever used and that includes ancient slow disk fragmented laptops and i7guy still uses that tablet. I can't use it for more than 5 minutes max. Heck the Air 2 is getting to that level nowadays. I don't like the slowdown on it.
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The only speed you can measure is the frequency of the CPU and it's score inside an app. You cannot measure real life performance using that as it's affected by numerous factors. One of my major gripes with iOS 9 for instance was the animation stuttering or the 3DT stutter which is not measurable by any app but has a profound impact on user experience.
No it does not because iOS 7 is faster than iOS 11 more times than vice versa. Remember, Apple wants to annoy you into buying a new one, although I wouldn't put it past them to destroy the device by the time the 5s reaches pasture as the iPad 2 and the iPhone 5 were unusable in the extreme sense.
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It's not an unncecessary hyperbole to say they destroyed the 7 Plus home button. My enjoyment of the device was severely hampered when they crippled it to the speed of a physical button. It's like this. I used to play at 1080P a few years ago. Then I switched to 4K. Now I find 1080P unusable and I cannot play on it. This is exactly what Apple did with the home button. It's also not a hyperbole to call a device unusable when it cannot keep more than 4 browser tabs in memory.
[doublepost=1529686945][/doublepost]Its a massive fail when these so called desktop class processors fail to load a simple settings app without a 2 second white screen, 3 years later which magically was fixed in iOS 12 based on the speed tests I have seen. iOS 12 is a direct response to the planned obsolescence accusations. There is no denying this
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An excellent demonstration of that very hyperbole.
You are proving the point about Apple NOT engaging in planned obsolescence rather than proving the point. Either something is slower or faster. A device thats slower at times and faster at times is in keeping with what people have been reporting for years across various iOS releases. And Milliseconds seems to be important as it is claimed destroyed devices. I personally have been told there is no difference on the iPhone 7 between iOS 10 and 11. Even the touted YouTube videos don’t show anything.
None of this shows any planned obsolescence.
That's like saying if a device did 15 things, and it does 12 worse its not planned obsolescence. The entirety of that video iOS 7 was dominating the speed test by the way and in the control centre it tied.
If 12/15 iOS 11 is slower, and there is no way to recover the performance short of buying a new device what does this imply?
[doublepost=1529694511][/doublepost]When we have news articles being made on how iOS 12 supposedly stops planned obsolescence, how can you still be in denial
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/06/apple-ios-12-shows-iphones-dont-have-planned-obsolescence.html
Apple proved this week that it's not trying to force you to buy a new iPhone
- Apple's iOS 12 will be available for iPhones launched as far back as 2013.
- This is unprecedented for Apple and smartphone makers.
- It also shows that Apple isn't trying to force you to upgrade your iPhone.
Can you explain why on iOS 11 the iPhone 5s has been slowed down to the level of an iPhone 4s running iOS 8.4.1
Have you used a 7 Plus on iOS 10?
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Either the device is slower or it isn’t. Before this “video” there were no shades of grey, all of a sudden there are?
I’m wondering how much of this is really the placebo effect given these YouTube videos do not prove any point about home button speed or performance.
Yes 7+ on iOS 10. There is no difference with the home button.
Do you have reading comprehension issues or do you think we do? That article isn't about Apple stopping planned obsolescence, as you claim. It's an article making the claim that iOS 12 "proves" that Apple doesn't engage in planned obsolescence. You don't even need to read the article. Just look at the headline you quoted.
The article is pretty much saying the opposite of what you're saying. So I'm not sure I'd go around saying people are in denial.
Or a migration.
Under iOS 11 I became so unenamored with my 7+ I switched to a Razer.
Then again, when I tested the 8+ and X, iOS 11 was definitely subpar on those also.
Maybe iOS 12 will fix things.
Here's to hoping.
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While many things are measurable, the majority comes down to a users perception even if you are lucky enough to use the devices side by side. When I was testing, even some ad hoc using the 7+ against the 8+ and X, for me it came down to "is it fast enough?" and "does it work?".
I7guy, almost everything you're claiming has been repeatedly refuted and disproven throughout this thread. I know it's 20 pages long at this point, but if you'd go back you'd see this. This is why arguments like this go around in "circles".
Let me ask you to clarify your stance (which seems to shift from post to post): Is it your belief that that running newer versions of iOS on older devices never affects performance?
A yes or no answer would really help clarify your argument. Thanks.
Same question to you, CDM.
Let me ask you to clarify your stance (which seems to shift from post to post): Is it your belief that that running newer versions of iOS on older devices never affects performance?
A yes or no answer would really help clarify your argument. Thanks.
Same question to you, CDM.
You’re asking the wrong question. Take out the absolutes.
If the question were rephrased as:”do you believe that running newer versions of IOS on older devices has varied “performance” for different users?” I would agree.
The reason this thread goes goes around in circles is the word proof means something different than the way it is used in the thread; is the lack of evidence for many claims, the use of absolutes, the generalizations/projections of ones opinion into the masses, usenof extreme hyperbolic adjectives such as “destroy”.
If the question were rephrased as:”do you believe that running newer versions of IOS on older devices has varied “performance” for different users?” I would agree.
The reason this thread goes goes around in circles is the word proof means something different than the way it is used in the thread; is the lack of evidence for many claims, the use of absolutes, the generalizations/projections of ones opinion into the masses, usenof extreme hyperbolic adjectives such as “destroy”.
If you really actually looked at the thread then you would have seen that the actual parts that have been commented on by me don't have much to do with the strawman type of loaded question you've posed.
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Of course the device is slower but absolutely everything on the device is not slower. The browsing speed is the same. 3DT speed is the same. Control centre load time is same. But for all intents and purposes,yes the device is slow. Another point to make is the stuttering animations and the accelerated battery drain on newer iOS versions
Its not the placebo effect as there is a difference measured in seconds when you compare iOS 7 and iOS 11 on an iPhone 5s or iOS 8 and iOS 11.
Also there is not a single YouTube video by the same channel, whichever one you view, which shows a difference in home button speed when iOS 11 and 12 are compared or different builds of iOS 11 are combared. The home button delay is clearly visible on YouTube if you compare iOS 10 and 11 only
Yes 7+ on iOS 10. There is no difference with the home button.[/QUOTE]
i7guy and some others here claim planned obsolescence never existed. If it never existed, Apple didn't have anything to prove with iOS 12. The fact that there was a flurry of news articles about iOS 12 and planned obsolescence proves it exists or at least it did at one point. In order to prove Apple does not engage in planned obsolescence iOS 13 also should not slow down older phones and if that happens I will accept Apple does not engage in planned obsolescence
All devices run on the same hardware. The fact that we arrive at a unanimous conclusion when it comes to the version the device shipped with but we differ when a newer version is release suggests, the degree of performance decline is acceptable to some but not to everyone
i7guy and some others here claim planned obsolescence never existed. If it never existed, Apple didn't have anything to prove with iOS 12. The fact that there was a flurry of news articles about iOS 12 and planned obsolescence proves it exists or at least it did at one point. In order to prove Apple does not engage in planned obsolescence iOS 13 also should not slow down older phones and if that happens I will accept Apple does not engage in planned obsolescence
All devices run on the same hardware. The fact that we arrive at a unanimous conclusion when it comes to the version the device shipped with but we differ when a newer version is release suggests, the degree of performance decline is acceptable to some but not to everyone[/QUOTE]
So basically by Apple digging deep into the bowels of the o/s to streamline internal processes, that was your proof of planned obsolescence? And saying if iOS 13 does not slow anything down that will be your proof? And repeating the same tired meme for years, like the Loch Ness monster, makes it true? Is what you are saying?
For all intents and purposes the device is not slower. I’ve seen the YouTube videos you presented, they don’t prove anything conclusively.
What?
All phones run the same hardware hence its impossible to have varying performance claims
So basically by Apple digging deep into the bowels of the o/s to streamline internal processes, that was your proof of planned obsolescence? And saying if iOS 13 does not slow anything down that will be your proof? And repeating the same tired meme for years, like the Loch Ness monster, makes it true? Is what you are saying?
For all intents and purposes the device is not slower. I’ve seen the YouTube videos you presented, they don’t prove anything conclusively.[/QUOTE]
I am saying the slowdown from one iOS version to the next is planned obsolescence. iOS 12 sped things up because after Throttlegate, Apple decided to finally give the older devices the attention they deserved and to take control of the situation before it affects sales.
Its not a meme. Each and every YouTube video I have posted shows the next iOS version being slower than the previous one
Basically, by that logic, if humanity will ever decide to go back to the moon, that will be proof that the previous times they've been there were faked and were just part of a conspiracy.
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They all certainly don't. The very fact that this statement is being repeated and presented as truth shows how far from facts things stray.
I am saying the slowdown from one iOS version to the next is planned obsolescence. iOS 12 sped things up because after Throttlegate, Apple decided to finally give the older devices the attention they deserved and to take control of the situation before it affects sales.
Its not a meme. Each and every YouTube video I have posted shows the next iOS version being slower than the previous one[/QUOTE]
What you are saying and what you are able to prove are two different things. What Apple is doing has nothing to do with old devices and everything to do with innovating existing operating system code deep inside the o/s.
If you already have the AirPods, Apple Watch and have bought tons of stuff on iTunes, Apple effectively has you trapped in their ecosystem
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How does that correlate to this? Planned Obsolescence unlike the moon landing is not a conspiracy theory. Its something they were actually caught with their pants down and this is all a way to make amends.
The first thing the media latched onto when iOS 12 for the first time in a decade increased performance on an iPhone 6 was planned obsolescence and we even had this question being asked to Apple executives who obviously downplayed it. Meaning no matter how much you try to deny this, people were thinking about this being the real reason their phones were slowing down. This further gained credence when Apple shipped a throttle in everybody's phone. Apple got cold feet when this happened hence their repeated attempts to address planned obsolescence. Their apology letter for Throttlegate specifically includes a sentence for planned obsolescence
"First and foremost, we have never — and would never — do anything to intentionally shorten the life of any Apple product, or degrade the user experience to drive customer upgrades"
Then we had iOS 12 being released with this being the headline
"These enhancements improve performance on all supported devices, going all the way back to iPhone 5s and iPad Air."
We even had refunds being issued to customers who had nothing to do with Throttlegate
Whether they have really halted planned obsolescence would be known only once iOS 13 launches
If you take 2 same iPhone models and upgrade both from iOS 10 to iOS 11 on a clean install, they will both perform equally. Apps on iOS run in a sandbox so unlike Android there are no external variables to affect performance.
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According to that definition of "proof", one would not be out of line saying we've had "proof" of Bigfoot for at least 30-40 years now. I can certainly remember flurries of Bigfoot related new articles / shows over the years. Way more than iOS 12 in fact. He's even been on the cover of Newsweek.
Even a news story that came out proving that Bigfoot is a hoax would be proof of his existence according to that logic. Otherwise the news wouldn't be covering it, right?
Seems silly to me. As silly, in fact, as using an article that states "Apple proved this week that it's not trying to force you to buy a new iPhone" as "proof" that it is.
Just for the record, I also disagree with the article's use of the word "proved" in the headline. I'd be happy with "circumstantial evidence", but I didn't see "proof" of anything in the article one way or the other. Just more people misusing words in an attempt to make a point.