iOS 12 and planned obsolescence

[Altis]

Yes, at the expense of more features. Planned obsolescence is a joke.

If "more features" means that you can't even type a message without the keyboard lagging, then yes.
[doublepost=1529601634][/doublepost]

Common sense. A device slows down. People buy a new one. It's really simple. There is only one way to escape the lag. Either that or like me

View attachment 767155

Devices don't slow down, they're bogged down with new software.

In Apple's case, that comes with permanent iOS updates.

 

[DNichter]

If "more features" means that you can't even type a message without the keyboard lagging, then yes.
[doublepost=1529601634][/doublepost]

Devices don't slow down, they're bogged down with new software.

In Apple's case, that comes with permanent iOS updates.

I've never experienced that and I am not really sure what you mean.

 

[JohnnyW2K1]

I have much to complain about iOS (trust me lol). I think much of the blame can be placed on too many features too quickly. There was an article years ago on Anandtech discussing how Apple should change iOS to improve scrolling. Some bit of analysis that concluded that yes, it could be greatly improved. And it was. It just took a frustrating long time.

I agree. Apple have gone feature mad of late. I'm not sure why. It's essentially what Microsoft used to do, where Jobs era Apple focussed more on user experience. Hell, Apple didn't even include some basic functionality in iOS 1 because Jobs wanted everything to be perfect first. He ditched the industry standard Flash for websites, just so his device would remain silky smooth when people were using it. If he saw how jerky it is these days, he would be ill.

Would love to see that Anandtech article if you can find it!
[doublepost=1529605703][/doublepost]

So then a malicious conspiracy to specifically make things worse for customers wouldn't logically follow that as alienating customers isn't financially sound. Glad we got that logic finally sorted out.

The problem with your logic is.... it *hasn't* affected Apple's finances.

It's a fact that people's devices slow down as they install newer iOS versions. I have an iPad 3 running iOS 9.3.5 and it's jerky as hell. When I bought it, it came with iOS 5, and it ran perfectly smoothly. I use it for the same things I always did: Playing videos and surfing the internet, but now the OS itself is slow, whereas before it was flawlessly smooth. So, yes, devices get slowed down by newer versions of iOS (whether deliberately or not). And it *hasn't* affected Apple's finances.

People on this forum even blame the age of the device... as if CPUs slow down with age! If you never updated your version of iOS, your device would never slow down. The battery would get worse, but the device would not slow down. But there's a commonly held misunderstanding that people need to upgrade their hardware often... and that helps Apple tremendously.
[doublepost=1529605954][/doublepost]

I've never experienced that and I am not really sure what you mean.

Well you obviously buy all the latest Apple stuff, so that's probably why.

 

[Radon87000]

If "more features" means that you can't even type a message without the keyboard lagging, then yes.
[doublepost=1529601634][/doublepost]

Devices don't slow down, they're bogged down with new software.

In Apple's case, that comes with permanent iOS updates.

That's true and for many users those extra features are unnecessary and needlessly take up processing power for no reason. I couldn't give a damn about Animojis or Memojis or those Snapchat ripoff whatever it is they call it. If I could uninstall all of that and increase speed. Although a convenient side effect of that is more sales which is why Apple didn't focus on optimisations till now.
[doublepost=1529607663][/doublepost]

We aren't talking about something just plain common and general slowdown of device. We are talking about fraction of a second increase in the response time of a button. Please demonstrate that many not have only noticed it, but cared so much about it that it was a driving factor in them upgrading their device. And that they were so outraged by Apple doing it on purpose that they decided to give more money to Apple. (None of which, once again, would still establish anything as to actual potential intent on Apple's part.)

https://www.reddit.com/r/ios/comments/7qt58d/home_button_delay/
https://http://www.redmondpie.com/i...ay-issue-shown-on-video-with-no-fix-in-sight/
www.reddit.com/r/ios/comments/7bdjvt/homebutton_delay_ios_11/
https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/78z7hn/ios_11_home_button_delay/

I could find more but for the people suffering from this issue theres only 2 ways to get it fixed. Tolerate the lag or buy a newer phone. If one decides to get an Android, the AW becomes a paperweight and you lose all integration with the iPad. Hence sales increased as for a subset amongst these users, people like me will upgrade rather than use a device which we hate to use.

 

[I7guy]

That's true and for many users those extra features are unnecessary and needlessly take up processing power for no reason...

Stopped it right there. Another example of taking your own opinion and believing it represents some fictitious universe of users.

[doublepost=1529607663][/doublepost]
https://www.reddit.com/r/ios/comments/7qt58d/home_button_delay/
https://http://www.redmondpie.com/i...ay-issue-shown-on-video-with-no-fix-in-sight/
www.reddit.com/r/ios/comments/7bdjvt/homebutton_delay_ios_11/
https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/78z7hn/ios_11_home_button_delay/

I could find more but for the people suffering from this issue theres only 2 ways to get it fixed. Tolerate the lag or buy a newer phone. If one decides to get an Android, the AW becomes a paperweight and you lose all integration with the iPad. Hence sales increased as for a subset amongst these users, people like me will upgrade rather than use a device which we hate to use.

Anecdotal is as anecdotal does comes to mind.

 

[duffman9000]

I agree. Apple have gone feature mad of late. I'm not sure why. It's essentially what Microsoft used to do, where Jobs era Apple focussed more on user experience. Hell, Apple didn't even include some basic functionality in iOS 1 because Jobs wanted everything to be perfect first. He ditched the industry standard Flash for websites, just so his device would remain silky smooth when people were using it. If he saw how jerky it is these days, he would be ill.

Would love to see that Anandtech article if you can find it!
[doublepost=1529605703][/doublepost]

The problem with your logic is.... it *hasn't* affected Apple's finances.

It's a fact that people's devices slow down as they install newer iOS versions. I have an iPad 3 running iOS 9.3.5 and it's jerky as hell. When I bought it, it came with iOS 5, and it ran perfectly smoothly. I use it for the same things I always did: Playing videos and surfing the internet, but now the OS itself is slow, whereas before it was flawlessly smooth. So, yes, devices get slowed down by newer versions of iOS (whether deliberately or not). And it *hasn't* affected Apple's finances.

People on this forum even blame the age of the device... as if CPUs slow down with age! If you never updated your version of iOS, your device would never slow down. The battery would get worse, but the device would not slow down. But there's a commonly held misunderstanding that people need to upgrade their hardware often... and that helps Apple tremendously.
[doublepost=1529605954][/doublepost]

Well you obviously buy all the latest Apple stuff, so that's probably why.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/10611/the-ios-10-review/6

This seems like ages ago.

 

[C DM]

That's true and for many users those extra features are unnecessary and needlessly take up processing power for no reason. I couldn't give a damn about Animojis or Memojis or those Snapchat ripoff whatever it is they call it. If I could uninstall all of that and increase speed. Although a convenient side effect of that is more sales which is why Apple didn't focus on optimisations till now.
[doublepost=1529607663][/doublepost]
https://www.reddit.com/r/ios/comments/7qt58d/home_button_delay/
https://http://www.redmondpie.com/i...ay-issue-shown-on-video-with-no-fix-in-sight/
www.reddit.com/r/ios/comments/7bdjvt/homebutton_delay_ios_11/
https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/78z7hn/ios_11_home_button_delay/

I could find more but for the people suffering from this issue theres only 2 ways to get it fixed. Tolerate the lag or buy a newer phone. If one decides to get an Android, the AW becomes a paperweight and you lose all integration with the iPad. Hence sales increased as for a subset amongst these users, people like me will upgrade rather than use a device which we hate to use.

So what do those few threads show as far as a lot of people being so upset about it that they felt forced to update? And that Apple did that specifically with that kind of thing with that particular malicious intent?

 

[DNichter]

I agree. Apple have gone feature mad of late. I'm not sure why. It's essentially what Microsoft used to do, where Jobs era Apple focussed more on user experience. Hell, Apple didn't even include some basic functionality in iOS 1 because Jobs wanted everything to be perfect first. He ditched the industry standard Flash for websites, just so his device would remain silky smooth when people were using it. If he saw how jerky it is these days, he would be ill.

Would love to see that Anandtech article if you can find it!
[doublepost=1529605703][/doublepost]

The problem with your logic is.... it *hasn't* affected Apple's finances.

It's a fact that people's devices slow down as they install newer iOS versions. I have an iPad 3 running iOS 9.3.5 and it's jerky as hell. When I bought it, it came with iOS 5, and it ran perfectly smoothly. I use it for the same things I always did: Playing videos and surfing the internet, but now the OS itself is slow, whereas before it was flawlessly smooth. So, yes, devices get slowed down by newer versions of iOS (whether deliberately or not). And it *hasn't* affected Apple's finances.

People on this forum even blame the age of the device... as if CPUs slow down with age! If you never updated your version of iOS, your device would never slow down. The battery would get worse, but the device would not slow down. But there's a commonly held misunderstanding that people need to upgrade their hardware often... and that helps Apple tremendously.
[doublepost=1529605954][/doublepost]

Well you obviously buy all the latest Apple stuff, so that's probably why.

I’m still not sure what you’re getting at, but oh well. Moving on.

 

[Radon87000]

So what do those few threads show as far as a lot of people being so upset about it that they felt forced to update? And that Apple did that specifically with that kind of thing with that particular malicious intent?

Those threads were made because they were upset about it. Some of them are just dealing with it while some upgraded their phones by now. Either way the blame falls squarely on Apple on ruining the home button in iOS 11. It was fantastic on iOS 10. I do not believe the intentions were anything other than malicious as iOS 10.3.3 had 6 betas and if this was a bug it would have gotten fixed by then. They slowed it down purely to gimp the iPhone 7 home button speed so the iPhone X would feel faster and it does.

 

[Radon87000]

I agree. Apple have gone feature mad of late. I'm not sure why. It's essentially what Microsoft used to do, where Jobs era Apple focussed more on user experience. Hell, Apple didn't even include some basic functionality in iOS 1 because Jobs wanted everything to be perfect first. He ditched the industry standard Flash for websites, just so his device would remain silky smooth when people were using it. If he saw how jerky it is these days, he would be ill.

Would love to see that Anandtech article if you can find it!
[doublepost=1529605703][/doublepost]

The problem with your logic is.... it *hasn't* affected Apple's finances.

It's a fact that people's devices slow down as they install newer iOS versions. I have an iPad 3 running iOS 9.3.5 and it's jerky as hell. When I bought it, it came with iOS 5, and it ran perfectly smoothly. I use it for the same things I always did: Playing videos and surfing the internet, but now the OS itself is slow, whereas before it was flawlessly smooth. So, yes, devices get slowed down by newer versions of iOS (whether deliberately or not). And it *hasn't* affected Apple's finances.

People on this forum even blame the age of the device... as if CPUs slow down with age! If you never updated your version of iOS, your device would never slow down. The battery would get worse, but the device would not slow down. But there's a commonly held misunderstanding that people need to upgrade their hardware often... and that helps Apple tremendously.
[doublepost=1529605954][/doublepost]

Well you obviously buy all the latest Apple stuff, so that's probably why.

I still remember when I was reading reviews about the A8X, 4 years ago and all the reviews were mentioning how the SOC is an absolute beast and nothing on the App Store comes close to utilising it fully. That’s true even today, even the most demanding games I know run flawlessly on it but iOS 11, the operating system runs extremely badly compared to how it used to be on iOS 10. I just opened YouTube on it, went to browser certain websites and when I decided to resume the app was flushed out of memory. One has to wonder, what the hell did they add under "features” so much so that it can’t handle basic tasks without lagging but third party games run without a hitch.

 

[C DM]

Those threads were made because they were upset about it. Some of them are just dealing with it while some upgraded their phones by now. Either way the blame falls squarely on Apple on ruining the home button in iOS 11. It was fantastic on iOS 10. I do not believe the intentions were anything other than malicious as iOS 10.3.3 had 6 betas and if this was a bug it would have gotten fixed by then. They slowed it down purely to gimp the iPhone 7 home button speed so the iPhone X would feel faster and it does.

As always, an interesting supposition.

 

[JohnnyW2K1]

I still remember when I was reading reviews about the A8X, 4 years ago and all the reviews were mentioning how the SOC is an absolute beast and nothing on the App Store comes close to utilising it fully. That’s true even today, even the most demanding games I know run flawlessly on it but iOS 11, the operating system runs extremely badly compared to how it used to be on iOS 10. I just opened YouTube on it, went to browser certain websites and when I decided to resume the app was flushed out of memory. One has to wonder, what the hell did they add under "features” so much so that it can’t handle basic tasks without lagging but third party games run without a hitch.

They’ve accrued a ton of technical debt. Adding new features without optimisation eventually leads to issues like this. The CPUs are so powerful now that they can get away with less optimised code... until batteries start to fail.

iOS 12 is really the best thing to happen to iOS devices in years. A proper optimisation of the code should improve everything, including battery life. I really hope Apple do a good job.

Also, take a look at this video. It might interest you:

 

[I7guy]

They’ve accrued a ton of technical debt. Adding new features without optimisation eventually leads to issues like this. The CPUs are so powerful now that they can get away with less optimised code... until batteries start to fail.

iOS 12 is really the best thing to happen to iOS devices in years. A proper optimisation of the code should improve everything, including battery life. I really hope Apple do a good job.

Also, take a look at this video. It might interest you:

That that’s called “proof” by the video creator is the reason these threads go around in circles. And why Youtube videos are anecdotal at best.
[doublepost=1529666613][/doublepost]

As always, an interesting supposition.

It was said:”I don’t believe “ so we’re headed into the right realm of opinions.

 

[Radon87000]

[
At the end of the day the most solid proof these naysayers have no answer to is the solution to a slow phone. Apart from buying a new one, there isn't any alternative and that's planned obsolescence.

 

[I7guy]

At the end of the day, ones performance priorities are subjective and what one deems slow is subjective, nothing to do with planned obsolescence as it relates to the meme. It’s been shown factually Apple actually speeds up iOS with new releases.

 

[FeliApple]

At the end of the day, ones performance priorities are subjective and what one deems slow is subjective, nothing to do with planned obsolescence as it relates to the meme. It’s been shown factually Apple actually speeds up iOS with new releases.

Speeds up? Grab an iPod Touch 5G on iOS 9. An iPhone 5c on iOS 10. An iPhone 5s on iOS 11. An iPad 3 on iOS 9. Compare them all to initial versions. It will be slower. Far slower. Every single time.
Yes, maybe an iPhone 8 or X is faster on iOS 12 that 11. What you claim, is simply not true for older devices.
You might not care or think the difference is too small to be significant, but you cannot claim it's actually faster, even more so several iOS versions later and nearing end-of-life.

 

[Radon87000]

At the end of the day, ones performance priorities are subjective and what one deems slow is subjective, nothing to do with planned obsolescence as it relates to the meme. It’s been shown factually Apple actually speeds up iOS with new releases.

I think what I am saying is not subjective when the damn keyboard takes 2 seconds to pop up on an iPhone 6. Every single one of em and I have handled many. Scores the same on geekbench as it did on iOS 8 but is far slower in the real world.

I would like to hear your explanation on why the phone on the extreme left is so fast whilst according to you factually scores the same as the slug on the extreme right

[doublepost=1529674435][/doublepost]

Speeds up? Grab an iPod Touch 5G on iOS 9. An iPhone 5c on iOS 10. An iPhone 5s on iOS 11. An iPad 3 on iOS 9. Compare them all to initial versions. It will be slower. Far slower. Every single time.
Yes, maybe an iPhone 8 or X is faster on iOS 12 that 11. What you claim, is simply not true for older devices.
You might not care or think the difference is too small to be significant, but you cannot claim it's actually faster, even more so several iOS versions later and nearing end-of-life.

I7guy thinks an iPad 2 on iOS 9 is usable. I think his definition of slowdown and unusable is different than ours. I mean since he is so concerned with synthetic benchmarks, since the geekbench score is the same between an iPhone 6 on iOS 8 and on iOS 12 it should perform the same but we know how it performs.

 

[I7guy]

Speeds up? Grab an iPod Touch 5G on iOS 9. An iPhone 5c on iOS 10. An iPhone 5s on iOS 11. An iPad 3 on iOS 9. Compare them all to initial versions. It will be slower. Far slower. Every single time.
Yes, maybe an iPhone 8 or X is faster on iOS 12 that 11. What you claim, is simply not true for older devices.
You might not care or think the difference is too small to be significant, but you cannot claim it's actually faster, even more so several iOS versions later and nearing end-of-life.

Actually posted a graphic of previous iOS versions that proves the point.

 

[Radon87000]

Actually posted a graphic of previous iOS versions that proves the point.

Doesn't prove anything apart from a higher score. Where is the evidence of app launch times, the frames per second of animation? I don't run benchmarks on my phone. I run apps.

 

[I7guy]

I think what I am saying is not subjective when the damn keyboard takes 2 seconds to pop up on an iPhone 6. Every single one of em and I have handled many. Scores the same on geekbench as it did on iOS 8 but is far slower in the real world.

I would like to hear your explanation on why the phone on the extreme left is so fast whilst according to you factually scores the same as the slug on the extreme right

[doublepost=1529674435][/doublepost]
I7guy thinks an iPad 2 on iOS 9 is usable. I think his definition of slowdown and unusable is different than ours. I mean since he is so concerned with synthetic benchmarks, since the geekbench score is the same between an iPhone 6 on iOS 8 and on iOS 12 it should perform the same but we know how it performs.

Care to explain why iOS 11 tied iOS 7 in some instances?
[doublepost=1529674894][/doublepost]

Doesn't prove anything apart from a higher score. Where is the evidence of app launch times, the frames per second of animation? I don't run benchmarks on my phone. I run apps.

I don’t serially open or close apps, I run functions. I encode videos, use Safari to render webpages, etc. if your use case is open and closing apps, one view of performance. If one uses their phones to do work, another view of performance.

 

[Altis]

At the end of the day, ones performance priorities are subjective and what one deems slow is subjective, nothing to do with planned obsolescence as it relates to the meme. It’s been shown factually Apple actually speeds up iOS with new releases.

Performance is measurable. Times can be measured and compared.

While some iOS updates do improve the times it takes to interact with the OS on occasion (such as 7.1 versus the abysmal 7.0), it's the exception rather than the norm.

But often there's a version update that renders the device much slower than it had previously been, and there is absolutely no way to go back. The device must be replaced entirely with a new one if it performs slowly.

 

[Radon87000]

Care to explain why iOS 11 tied iOS 7 in some instances?

I watched the whole video and the only area where iOS 11 tied iOS 7 was the control centre. iOS 7 was beating 11 in every other area. I was more particularly interested in the performance of third party apps. It was always 1,2,3,4,5 for iOS 7,8,9,20,11

I don’t serially open or close apps, I run functions. I encode videos, use Safari to render webpages, etc. if your use case is open and closing apps, one view of performance. If one uses their phones to do work, another view of performance.

I dont serially open and close apps. I open the apps and in opening them the older iOS was faster. I do not encode videos. Safari web browser performance has not been an issue for me apart from the constant flushing of tabs from memory on older phones which is not reflected by any of your benchmarks. I use the basic tasks like email, watching movies, playing games, socials and for that I need app launch times and proper memory management both of which degrade as newer versions launch.

Your benchmarks also do not reflect the smoothness in terms of frames per second

 

[FeliApple]

Actually posted a graphic of previous iOS versions that proves the point.

Benchmarks, again, don't represent reality. If it is faster "on paper" but then it takes three times as much to show the lock screen, there's no benchmark that can convince me that it is faster.

 

[Radon87000]

Benchmarks, again, don't represent reality. If it is faster "on paper" but then it takes three times as much to show the lock screen, there's no benchmark that can convince me that it is faster.

Heres another way to disprove it. You can install a boatload of crap on a Windows PC and make it so slow it would take 10 minutes to boot. Then run any benchmarks. It will score the same as it did before. Benchmarks can also be manipulated unlike real world use videos like the above. Samsung was caught overclocking the CPU when benchmarks software was detected. For all we know, Apple could be doing the same after throttlegate. Hence why I only use YouTube videos.

 

[I7guy]

Performance is measurable. Times can be measured and compared.

While some iOS updates do improve the times it takes to interact with the OS on occasion (such as 7.1 versus the abysmal 7.0), it's the exception rather than the norm.

But often there's a version update that renders the device much slower than it had previously been, and there is absolutely no way to go back. The device must be replaced entirely with a new one if it performs slowly.

Sped is measurable. Performance based on speed is subjective.

I watched the whole video and the only area where iOS 11 tied iOS 7 was the control centre. iOS 7 was beating 11 in every other area. I was more particularly interested in the performance of third party apps. It was always 1,2,3,4,5 for iOS 7,8,9,20,11



I dont serially open and close apps. I open the apps and in opening them the older iOS was faster. I do not encode videos. Safari web browser performance has not been an issue for me apart from the constant flushing of tabs from memory on older phones which is not reflected by any of your benchmarks. I use the basic tasks like email, watching movies, playing games, socials and for that I need app launch times and proper memory management both of which degrade as newer versions launch.

Your benchmarks also do not reflect the smoothness in terms of frames per second

Well if iOS 7 doesn’t beat iOS 11 completely and totally it not faster is it? It shoots the “planned obsolescence” meme in the foot. Withers it’s slower or it’s it’s not. Not that somethings are faster and some are not, which is every iOS release.

Benchmarks, again, don't represent reality. If it is faster "on paper" but then it takes three times as much to show the lock screen, there's no benchmark that can convince me that it is faster.

Neither does serially opening and closing apps. Boot times clearly aren’t the epitome of performance, because it’s dependent on the amount of code that’s executed.