iOS 12 and planned obsolescence

[FeliApple]

It's 8 years and not 10. One of my gaming PCs has 5 year old components and it does a hell of a job in the latest games. 10-15 years is when support should be removed.

When iPads and iPhones are supported for 5 years, computers should get 10 years of support at th every least.
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The very fact that Apple does not allow downgrading is enough evidence about planned obsolescence but i7guy knows that already.

It's 8 years and not 10. One of my gaming PCs has 5 year old components and it does a hell of a job in the latest games. 10-15 years is when support should be removed.

When iPads and iPhones are supported for 5 years, computers should get 10 years of support at th every least.
[doublepost=1528378408][/doublepost]
The very fact that Apple does not allow downgrading is enough evidence about planned obsolescence but i7guy knows that already. The real solution if you upgrade an iPhone to a newer iOS and are not satisfied with it is to get a newer device. No way around it.

"The real solution if you upgrade an iPhone to a newer iOS and are not satisfied with it is to get a newer device. No way around it." Sadly, this is so true... Also, there's no counterargument. Downgrading would allow satisfaction. Apple doesn't allow it. Does Apple have "valid reasons"? Probably. Does Apple slow them down on purpose? I don't know. Do devices actually slow down? Yes. That's all it matters.
[doublepost=1528382992][/doublepost]

This is a rational post. What you say I agree with, however at some point it is what it is. Complaints have been swirling around the upgrade and downgrade process for years and Apple has not seen fit to address some of the often harsh criticism of it.

Unfortunately, this is true. I don't think Apple will ever allow downgrading.

 

[Septembersrain]

I'm going to see how other people like it on the 7 Plus before I touch it. I won't be running the beta. If this device slows to a crawl, it'll be unusable. One more iteration and I feel that this device will turn into my 5c on iOS 10. A sloth.

 

[honglong1976]

Give it a rest. You're talking about a 10 year-old computer... that's an eternity in terms of software, as you very well know.

They dropped support officially, but unofficially they can be updated. My macbook pro is on High Sierra and runs great (same for Sierra, both unsupported officially), so it does make you wonder. Why drop support for a laptop that runs fine with the OS update.

Forced upgrade!

 

[LinusR]

They dropped support officially, but unofficially they can be updated. My macbook pro is on High Sierra and runs great (same for Sierra, both unsupported officially), so it does make you wonder. Why drop support for a laptop that runs fine with the OS update.

Forced upgrade!

My initial thought was this: even though they might run well, keeping up the support for "old" devices is a completely different problem.
Apple would love to drop support immediately and focus on the newest tech only, while consumers want devices to be supported for as long as possible. Compromise is key, and initially I thought Apple got it right with dropping support for devices that are eight years old. But perhaps you're right, and they might as well give us at least another two.

 

[Radon87000]

[doublepost=1528379696][/doublepost]
No, there is no evidence.

The evidence is the slow device in question and the millions of posts in forums about it. The only solution is a newer phone. And that's what I did

My phones did not slow down on iOS 11. Of course the varied comments and opinions are nothing new acrossnrhe various releases for years.

Phones slow down for various reasons not the least of which is ill coded apps such as Facebook. When you feel your phone is slow, DFU restore.

Already tried all these boilerplate statements right down to visiting the Apple Store. The device does not recover the original performance and is stuck on it. There are ONLY 2 practical solutions

1. Buy a newer phone
2. Download a tvOS beta profile but lose compatibility with AAA games and apps.

Interesting anecdotal apple to oreanges comparison. Certainly not proof of anything in relation to planned obsolescence.

Apart from their phones and tablets, their support for computers and watches is pretty poor imo. 8 years for computers and 3 years for a Watch is bad support. Period. That's not even taking into consideration the fact that the Watch doesn't even enjoy the same avaibility in all countries as on Day 1. The Series 3 currently has only 2 years left and its only just now launching in some countries. By stopping support they induce upgrades whenever they want to

And once again we are back to what I mentioned: weighing time and resources when it comes to prioritizing older technology for optimizations isn't the same as maliciously conspiring to specifically degrade something.

They had enough resources to engineer a throttle and ship it for older phones in an iOS update without telling anyone. Apple has more than enough resources to support 8 models but they don't do it. They don't allow downgrades either. Update prompts are flung in my face like adware unless a tvOS beta profile is installed.

They are not maliciously conspiring. They are simply indifferent to it because they know they will be back for a newer iPhone. If a feature is slowing down older models, instead of removing it they will still ship it.The vast majority of both Google and Apple's customer base don't switch on a regular basis because people don't like change.

And if Apple really really doesn't have the resources, support a downgrade option for all products. Its that simple.

 

[omihek]

And we will be back to squate one with 13 with the rumoured iOS redesign. By that time customers will have forgotten about throttling so they can revert to their old habits. I hope this isn't what happens but it's what I believe will happen.

I think another thing a lot of people aren't acknowledging is the fact that no one is forced to upgrade their software. If your iPhone 5S is at risk of running a little slower because of all the advancements of an OS released 7 years later, then simply don't update it. People around here act like Apple forced this update on me which was intended to slow down my iPhone so I would be forced to go into the store and buy a new one. The customer makes that choice at every point, not Apple. If you update, deal with it. If you don't like Apple's way of doing things, get an Android. Apple is allowed to focus on features other than making sure a 7-year-old phone runs just as fast as the day it was released. And the customer is allowed to show their support to whichever company is doing things the way they like it.

 

[C DM]

They dropped support officially, but unofficially they can be updated. My macbook pro is on High Sierra and runs great (same for Sierra, both unsupported officially), so it does make you wonder. Why drop support for a laptop that runs fine with the OS update.

Forced upgrade!

Forced?

 

[I7guy]

The evidence is the slow device in question and the millions of posts in forums about it. The only solution is a newer phone. And that's what I did



Already tried all these boilerplate statements right down to visiting the Apple Store. The device does not recover the original performance and is stuck on it. There are ONLY 2 practical solutions

1. Buy a newer phone
2. Download a tvOS beta profile but lose compatibility with AAA games and apps.


Apart from their phones and tablets, their support for computers and watches is pretty poor imo. 8 years for computers and 3 years for a Watch is bad support. Period. That's not even taking into consideration the fact that the Watch doesn't even enjoy the same avaibility in all countries as on Day 1. The Series 3 currently has only 2 years left and its only just now launching in some countries.

And once again we are back to what I mentioned: weighing time and resources when it comes to prioritizing older technology for optimizations isn't the same as maliciously conspiring to specifically degrade something.

They had enough resources to engineer a throttle and ship it for older phones in an iOS update without telling anyone. Apple has more than enough resources to support 8 models but they don't do it. They don't allow downgrades either. Update prompts are flung in my face like adware unless a tvOS beta profile is installed.

They are not maliciously conspiring. They are simply indifferent to it because they know they will be back for a newer iPhone. If a feature is slowing down older models, instead of removing it they will still ship it.The vast majority of both Google and Apple's customer base don't switch on a regular basis because people don't like change.

And if Apple really really doesn't have the resources, support a downgrade option for all products. Its that simple.

This is not an all or nothing proposition. Having a post doesn’t mean there is evidence. Having a post about the world being flat doesn’t mean it’s true. Neither my 5s, 6s 6s+ or 7 has had performance issues through the various iterations. That you want to buy a new phone when you claim your phone slowed down is on you, not Apple.

 

[omihek]

What about the iPhone 3G, 3GS, etc? Those were designed with 32 bit in mind for their respective softwares and fared far worse than current devices, in terms of running on dated software.

Those weren't on the series A chipset either. Like I said, I really don't know, but I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of it up to this point had to do with the different types of chips in the phones. Now, all supported devices are on 64-bit A series chips, so it makes sense that it would be easier for them to support all currently supported iOS 11 devices with iOS 12.

 

[1050792]

I never understood this notion that Apple intentionally degrades your experience to get you to upgrade. If I have a crappy experience the last thing I’d want to do is purchase more products/services from the company providing that crappy experience. Maybe there are some people heavily involved in the iOS ecosystem where it would be too costly to switch platforms but I’m guessing that’s a small minority of the install base. Apple always has to assume people will leave if the experience is bad.

"But the new one is so shiny fast and smooth" <- Random Apple User

 

[C DM]

The evidence is the slow device in question and the millions of posts in forums about it. The only solution is a newer phone. And that's what I did



Already tried all these boilerplate statements right down to visiting the Apple Store. The device does not recover the original performance and is stuck on it. There are ONLY 2 practical solutions

1. Buy a newer phone
2. Download a tvOS beta profile but lose compatibility with AAA games and apps.


Apart from their phones and tablets, their support for computers and watches is pretty poor imo. 8 years for computers and 3 years for a Watch is bad support. Period. That's not even taking into consideration the fact that the Watch doesn't even enjoy the same avaibility in all countries as on Day 1. The Series 3 currently has only 2 years left and its only just now launching in some countries.





They had enough resources to engineer a throttle and ship it for older phones in an iOS update without telling anyone. Apple has more than enough resources to support 8 models but they don't do it. They don't allow downgrades either. Update prompts are flung in my face like adware unless a tvOS beta profile is installed.

They are not maliciously conspiring. They are simply indifferent to it because they know they will be back for a newer iPhone. If a feature is slowing down older models, instead of removing it they will still ship it.The vast majority of both Google and Apple's customer base don't switch on a regular basis because people don't like change.

And if Apple really really doesn't have the resources, support a downgrade option for all products. Its that simple.

So in response to apples and oranges comparisons just more apples and oranges comparisons are brought up. I guess at least we can rely on the consistency of deflections.

 

[Radon87000]

This is not an all or nothing proposition. Having a post doesn’t mean there is evidence. Having a post about the world being flat doesn’t mean it’s true.

Well I don't need you to believe me. When I say my device is slow, its factually slow. That's all there is to it and thats really all I need. Not everyone needs to be affected by it to be proven. Throttlegate affected only some Apple users yet look at Apple's response to it. Apple could have straight up denied Throttlegate using your logic

That you want to buy a new phone when you claim your phone slowed down is on you, not Apple.

What I want is not relevant. What I am saying is the solution to the problem. If your iPhone is slow, you need to buy a new one. I am telling you a solution which actually works and what customers like me do.
[doublepost=1528385037][/doublepost]

Forced?

Yes forced. I wouldn't have considered a Series 4 AW if Apple hadn't dropped support for S0 this year

 

[FeliApple]

I think another thing a lot of people aren't acknowledging is the fact that no one is forced to upgrade their software. If your iPhone 5S is at risk of running a little slower because of all the advancements of an OS released 7 years later, then simply don't update it. People around here act like Apple forced this update on me which was intended to slow down my iPhone so I would be forced to go into the store and buy a new one. The customer makes that choice at every point, not Apple. If you update, deal with it. If you don't like Apple's way of doing things, get an Android. Apple is allowed to focus on features other than making sure a 7-year-old phone runs just as fast as the day it was released. And the customer is allowed to show their support to whichever company is doing things the way they like it.

Thing is, Apple actually bothers people to update. Nagging prompts are constant. Yes, at the end it is the user's fault, but Apple isn't "innocent" either.
Also, there are drawbacks with my approach of not updating. I've wanted to download several apps already, and they require the newer iOS versions. Okay, my choice, but not entirely. If Apple assured me (through experience) that updates would be flawless, I'd update. They don't, so I don't have much of a choice there.

 

[Radon87000]

Thing is, Apple actually bothers people to update. Nagging prompts are constant. Yes, at the end it is the user's fault, but Apple isn't "innocent" either.
Also, there are drawbacks with my approach of not updating. I've wanted to download several apps already, and they require the newer iOS versions. Okay, my choice, but not entirely. If Apple assured me (through experience) that updates would be flawless, I'd update. They don't, so I don't have much of a choice there.

The one way ticket irks me. I really want to try iOS 12 on my iPad Pro but if I go that route, there is no coming back. The iPad forum has plenty of posts on how there was a drastic drop in battery life after updating to 11 so I don't want to ruin a kickass tablet.

 

[omihek]

Thing is, Apple actually bothers people to update. Nagging prompts are constant. Yes, at the end it is the user's fault, but Apple isn't "innocent" either.
Also, there are drawbacks with my approach of not updating. I've wanted to download several apps already, and they require the newer iOS versions. Okay, my choice, but not entirely. If Apple assured me (through experience) that updates would be flawless, I'd update. They don't, so I don't have much of a choice there.

Not supporting older iOS versions is the choice of the developer, not Apple. I do agree that Apple's insistent nagging to update your device needs to stop. I hadn't thought of that when I responded.

 

[Radon87000]

I think another thing a lot of people aren't acknowledging is the fact that no one is forced to upgrade their software. If your iPhone 5S is at risk of running a little slower because of all the advancements of an OS released 7 years later, then simply don't update it. People around here act like Apple forced this update on me which was intended to slow down my iPhone so I would be forced to go into the store and buy a new one. The customer makes that choice at every point, not Apple. If you update, deal with it. If you don't like Apple's way of doing things, get an Android. Apple is allowed to focus on features other than making sure a 7-year-old phone runs just as fast as the day it was released. And the customer is allowed to show their support to whichever company is doing things the way they like it.

As I posted a few pages back, I would be happy to go the Google way if they came out with a tablet and a Watch. Personally I do not like Apple's update policies but if I switch to a Pixel, there is no Watch on Android, and no tablet (they even removed the tablet section from Android's main website). It makes for a very disjointed experience. I also lose iMessage support and the ability to receive and respond to calls on the iPad.

 

[C DM]

Well I don't need you to believe me. When I say my device is slow, its factually slow. That's all there is to it and thats really all I need. Not everyone needs to be affected by it to be proven. Throttlegate affected only some Apple users yet look at Apple's response to it. Apple could have straight up denied Throttlegate using your logic



What I want is not relevant. What I am saying is the solution to the problem. If your iPhone is slow, you need to buy a new one. I am telling you a solution which actually works and what customers like me do.
[doublepost=1528385037][/doublepost]
Yes forced. I wouldn't have considered a Series 4 AW if Apple hadn't dropped support for S0 this year

Considering is not being forced. I mean the silliness of just plain incorrect use of words really needs to stop. The intended enhanced rhetoric effect from that is not only not there, but it just undermines anything of any value that might actually be there without the unnecessary and incorrect rhetoric.

 

[FeliApple]

The one way ticket irks me. I really want to try iOS 12 on my iPad Pro but if I go that route, there is no coming back. The iPad forum has plenty of posts on how there was a drastic drop in battery life after updating to 11 so I don't want to ruin a kickass tablet.

Yeah. You've got a 10.5 on iOS 10 IIRC. I would stay. I'm even worse: my 9.7 Pro is on iOS 9. I'd like some of the features of iOS 12. The control center and screen recording was also something I've wanted for a long time. But it is what it is. My iPhone 6s is on iOS 9 too. I don't have the features. I don't have the app compatibility, and it'll only get worse once iOS 12.0 is officially launched. But in the end, it works so flawlessly that I won't even think about updating.

 

[Radon87000]

Considering is not being forced. I mean the silliness of just plain incorrect use of words really needs to stop. The intended enhanced rhetoric effect from that is not only not there, but it just undermines anything of any value that might actually be there without the unnecessary and incorrect rhetoric.

I wouldn't have even considered a new Watch if Apple hadn't dropped this year, so it is forced in that they are asking me to get a newer model to get the newer features. If it was after 5 years, it wouldn't matter but after 2-3 years that's pretty poor

 

[I7guy]

Well I don't need you to believe me. When I say my device is slow, its factually slow. That's all there is to it and thats really all I need. Not everyone needs to be affected by it to be proven. Throttlegate affected only some Apple users yet look at Apple's response to it. Apple could have straight up denied Throttlegate using your logic



What I want is not relevant. What I am saying is the solution to the problem. If your iPhone is slow, you need to buy a new one. I am telling you a solution which actually works and what customers like me do.
[doublepost=1528385037][/doublepost]
Yes forced. I wouldn't have considered a Series 4 AW if Apple hadn't dropped support for S0 this year

What you do with your devices is on you. There is no such thing as factually slow. Proving planned obsolescence as the popular meme is another matter entirely. Because you claim your devices slowed down and ergo Apple engages in planned obsolescence is a false conclusion. Power management is irrelevant.

 

[C DM]

I wouldn't have even considered a new Watch if Apple hadn't dropped this year, so it is forced in that they are asking me to get a newer model to get the newer features. If it was after 5 years, it wouldn't matter but after 2-3 years that's pretty poor

So, again, not forced.

The particulars of Apple Watch and the latest update have already been covered fairly well in other threads about it. Rehashing it yet again in other threads isn't useful.

 

[Radon87000]

The YouTube app takes 6 seconds on the Air 2 to launch on ios 11. I remember when it used to open that in just 3 seconds a few years ago. Open up safari and quickly tap the address bar for the keyboard to pop up and there is that dreaded input lag as it struggles to catch up with input. Open the camera and it has a 2 second delay. It cant keep more than 6 tabs in memory without reloading. Battery life has decreased and it only lasts 2 days as opposed to a week.

These are basic functions of a tablet and it took Apple just 4 years to bring it to its knees. And I am stuck with this crap.
[doublepost=1528386116][/doublepost]

So, again, not forced.

The particulars of Apple Watch and the latest update have already been covered fairly well in other threads about it. Rehashing it yet again in other threads isn't useful.

The consideration of the new Apple Watch was forced.

 

[FeliApple]

Not supporting older iOS versions is the choice of the developer, not Apple. I do agree that Apple's insistent nagging to update your device needs to stop. I hadn't thought of that when I responded.

I know, but doesn't Apple prevent developers from supporting below a certain version when certain time passes by? (I don't know, I'm not implying anything, I think I read something like that).
Anyway, I know that Apple is not entirely at fault, but the end result is that I lose app compatibility because I cannot update while maintaining performance and therefore I have to stay behind.

 

[sdwaltz]

I simply do not get the "iOS 11 is buggy and super terrible" argument.

I've never had one single issue.

Meanwhile, on Android...

 

[1050792]

I simply do not get the "iOS is buggy and super terrible" argument.

I've never had one single issue.

Just because you didn't doesn't mean others didn't aswell.