iPad as a laptop replacement

[ofarlig]

Apple is already making as easy as possible to port apps, I doubt they can do much more, other that trying to convince some major software houses to port their apps to iPadOS, even without optimising them for touch, like it happened with DaVinci Resolve... Remember that for companies that means giving Apple 30% so not a huge incentive to do that...

Some subscriptions based apps could skip that like Microsoft does, but Microsoft is a competitor with Surface so has not a big incentive to make Office equal on iPad. Other major free app would be full Chrome, but Google is a competitor too so even if it becomes possible to have full browsers with extentions I doubt they will do it and (outside the US) there is whatsapp, which is a huge deal for businesses in many countries, but Facebook hates Apple (who has implemented anti-tracking options) and they'll avoid to make an iPad app...

And even just this is a huge deal. If iPadOS could run full Office, full Chrome and whatsapp it would be a huge deal for many businesses and individual around the world.... much bigger than FCP and Logic....

As others have noted there aren’t really much help from Apple in getting Mac apps on the iPad, getting iOS/iPadOS apps on MacOS has a lot of support though. There’s so much Apple could do to make the transition for developers a lot easier. As I said I think Apple eventually will go that route but they aren’t there yet.

Since Macs run a gimped version of office I doubt the full experience is coming to iPadOS in the near future.

 

[sparksd]

Agreed those would be a bigger factor for many than FCP. Problem is Google, Microsoft, Meta are run by bean counters and board directors now. Those companies won't put in the resources to do that unless the market share for the iPad increases and it makes it worth it for them. Problem is increased iPads sales needs those apps (and a few others) before its sells more.

Even before M1 the A-series chips were capable of full versions of those, even with limited ram. Yet those App companies still put out a watered down version for the iOS.

Google, Microsoft, and Meta are publicly traded companies and the only reason they will do something is to enhance the bottom line. You can't really expect them to do it otherwise.

 

[Digitalguy]

Easy to port Mac apps to the iPad? As far as I know there's no tool that makes that possible... there's the Mac Catalyst tool to bring iPad apps over to the Mac, but nothing like that for the iPad.


I do think with Apple bringing FCP and Logic to the iPad… its a sign for the tech industry as in “hey we (Apple) are taking the iPad platform seriously… others will follow.”

I should have been more specific.
iPad and MacOS apps can be created using the same programming language, but that's where the "easy" part (at least compared to porting from Windows for instance) ends and there is no easy way to create a Catalyst for iPad other than something that is basically a hidden virtual machine, the same way Android apps run on Windows 11, with Windows Subsystem for Android, with all the disadvantages of a virtual machine.
And that's not what Apple wants, so what I meant is do not expect Apple to create some magic tool that makes Mac apps work on iPad, it's not happening, because it's simply impossible.
But changing the code is not the hardest part. The hardest part is re-imagining the UI for touch. That takes much more work that adapting the code to work on iPadOS (and that the part that, for instance, DaVinci didn't do...).

 

[Ludatyk]

there is no easy way to create a Catalyst for iPad other than something that is basically a hidden virtual machine, the same way Android apps run on Windows 11, with Windows Subsystem for Android, with all the disadvantages of a virtual machine.
And that's not what Apple wants, so what I meant is do not expect Apple to create some magic tool that makes Mac apps work on iPad, it's not happening, because it's simply impossible.
But changing the code is not the hardest part. The hardest part is re-imagining the UI for touch. That takes much more work that adapting the code to work on iPadOS (and that the part that, for instance, DaVinci didn't do...).

So, you think creating the iPad to Mac tool was easy?

I understand your perspective... you are strictly looking at it from a touch angle and I think you missing the mouse input (Apple Pencil as well). I use Affinity Designer and Photo v2 on my iPad... and the touch targets are small compared to the older version of Affinity. Similar with DaVinci, touch targets are relatively small.

I think iPad creators use a combination of mouse and pencil... not necessarily limited to touch, but I could be wrong. And the reason I bring up the mouse input and pencil... they offer a hover feature where it makes selecting small targets easier. Whenever I using DaVinci, Affinity apps.. I use a pencil or mouse (no touch).

And with that being said, I think the transition from iPad to Mac is the same level of difficulty when it comes to Mac to iPad. I believe the groundwork was laid when Apple introduced M1 to the Mac nearly 3 years ago.. they offered devs a tool to move intel Mac apps to the M1 Macs and I don't think its too far fetched to have a tool for Mac apps to iPad.

If anything... I think porting Mac to iPad apps will be much easier because of the limits in class size. You can see it when using Stage Manager on the iPad... resizing windows (they are preset) its much rigid compared to macOS .

 

[Digitalguy]

So, you think creating the iPad to Mac tool was easy?

It's not a matter of easy or hard. It's a matter of how much resources it takes. I don't know how Catalyst works and I don't know if it's anything like WSA, but if it works similarly I definitely think it takes less resources than a Mac VM on iPad (which is how most of these systems actually work). People think of these systems as magic tools, when what they are is just hidden VMs.

I understand your perspective... you are strictly looking at it from a touch angle and I think you missing the mouse input (Apple Pencil as well). I use Affinity Designer and Photo v2 on my iPad... and the touch targets are small compared to the older version of Affinity. Similar with DaVinci, touch targets are relatively small.

I think iPad creators use a combination of mouse and pencil... not necessarily limited to touch, but I could be wrong. And the reason I bring up the mouse input and pencil... they offer a hover feature where it makes selecting small targets easier. Whenever I using DaVinci, Affinity apps.. I use a pencil or mouse (no touch).

I think that FCP show how an app should be ported to take full advantage of touch and pencil. DaVinci instead is far from it (and I bought the Studio version, while I won't be subscribing to FCP, so I am not against DaVinci)

And with that being said, I think the transition from iPad to Mac is the same level of difficulty when it comes to Mac to iPad. I believe the groundwork was laid when Apple introduced M1 to the Mac nearly 3 years ago.. they offered devs a tool to move intel Mac apps to the M1 Macs and I don't think its too far fetched to have a tool for Mac apps to iPad.

I think you are underestimating the difference. Making an app Universal is a much easier task than porting to iPad, because you are working with the same OS.

If anything... I think porting Mac to iPad apps will be much easier because of the limits in class size. You can see it when using Stage Manager on the iPad... resizing windows (they are preset) its much rigid compared to macOS .

That's only one small piece of the puzzle, there much more to it when it comes to recoding for a different OS like iPadOS. But again, as I said, the hardest thing is not necessarily re-coding per se, but reshaping the UI like Apple did with FCP and Logic.

 

[ofarlig]

That's only one small piece of the puzzle, there much more to it when it comes to recoding for a different OS like iPadOS. But again, as I said, the hardest thing is not necessarily re-coding per se, but reshaping the UI like Apple did with FCP and Logic.

I really think Apple is going in a direction where there will be more focus on keyboard, mouse and pen inputs for a lot of things to unlock more power in the iPad Pros especially. Stage Manager, more and more improved external display support, talks about a 14” iPad Pro and so on indicates to me that they want to push the iPad Pros further into productivity and professional fields. For those kinds of applications, especially when docked we are looking at a mouse first scenario with UIs that need to match that.

It will be a big puzzle for Apple to solve but I think their actions indicate where they are going.

With side loading coming soon as well I am sure there will be some sort of VM made where we can run Mac OS (and Windows) programs regardless of what Apple wants.

 

[The point and shoot pro]

So, you think creating the iPad to Mac tool was easy?

I understand your perspective... you are strictly looking at it from a touch angle and I think you missing the mouse input (Apple Pencil as well). I use Affinity Designer and Photo v2 on my iPad... and the touch targets are small compared to the older version of Affinity. Similar with DaVinci, touch targets are relatively small.

I think iPad creators use a combination of mouse and pencil... not necessarily limited to touch, but I could be wrong. And the reason I bring up the mouse input and pencil... they offer a hover feature where it makes selecting small targets easier. Whenever I using DaVinci, Affinity apps.. I use a pencil or mouse (no touch).

And with that being said, I think the transition from iPad to Mac is the same level of difficulty when it comes to Mac to iPad. I believe the groundwork was laid when Apple introduced M1 to the Mac nearly 3 years ago.. they offered devs a tool to move intel Mac apps to the M1 Macs and I don't think its too far fetched to have a tool for Mac apps to iPad.

If anything... I think porting Mac to iPad apps will be much easier because of the limits in class size. You can see it when using Stage Manager on the iPad... resizing windows (they are preset) its much rigid compared to macOS .

This is why I cannot move to a macbook. I use touch inputs on my desktop and notebook pcs constantly. To lose them would be terrible. Once Apple gets their head out of the sand and creates a touchscreen macbook, I am in like Flynn.

 

[BhaveshUK]

Following getting a mandatory Windows laptop for my new job, I found a good deal on a Surface Pro 8 to see how Windows fit into my personal life. There were a few insights regarding the iPad as a laptop discussion from my time:

• I envisaged the Surface Pro replacing the Mac and iPad into one device. However, I soon realised that with such a small display, I would still always want a second screen to reach maximum productivity. At that point, I reasoned that I'd still need to carry two devices around at any given time. One of them might as well be an iPad 🤷‍♂️

• Apple displays are a killer feature. The screen quality and colour accuracy on the Surface Pro is very far behind. This makes the iPad a more ideal proposition for professional drawing work where colour accuracy matters. Moreover, the UI of iPad apps are optimised for drawing and touch, whereas Windows 11 is very finicky.

• It is the overall feel and experience (on both Mac and iPad) which I feel makes using Apple devices worthwhile.

• Apple Pencil offers a more comfortable and smoother writing/ drawing experience.

• With the Surface Pro, I was having to nurse my screen brightness and usage. I feel battery life, little heat and no fan noise is an advantage of having iPadOS on the iPad.

• The Surface Pro keyboard is perfect and I wish it existed for the iPad Pro. I feel even more ripped off with the Magic Keyboard than before.

My biggest insight was that there are significant advantages to having the laptop and tablet aspects remain separated. The Mac offers a premium traditional computing experience, and the iPad offers a premium tablet experience. There are compromises in keeping two devices, but those compromises can at times feel smaller than the one I have working with a 2-in-1 device.

 

[Digitalguy]

I really think Apple is going in a direction where there will be more focus on keyboard, mouse and pen inputs for a lot of things to unlock more power in the iPad Pros especially. Stage Manager, more and more improved external display support, talks about a 14” iPad Pro and so on indicates to me that they want to push the iPad Pros further into productivity and professional fields. For those kinds of applications, especially when docked we are looking at a mouse first scenario with UIs that need to match that.

It will be a big puzzle for Apple to solve but I think their actions indicate where they are going.

With side loading coming soon as well I am sure there will be some sort of VM made where we can run Mac OS (and Windows) programs regardless of what Apple wants.

I don't think that's the direction Apple wants to go... As much as they would like to sell more Magic Keyboards and pencils, I highly doubt they would want to go the direction of the Surface pro (because that's what we are talking about).
Using DaVinci Resolve on iPad without a keyboard is very similar (actually slightly worse) than using it on a Surface pro in terms of touch. It's of course better than nothing. Better than no DaVinci on iPad. So Apple would rather a developer port their apps unoptimized than not port them at all, but they would much prefer it to be optimized for touch. And Final Cut shows it. And productivity and professional doesn't meant no touch optimization. You can have both. It's just more work for the developers.

 

[The point and shoot pro]

Just a quick question. Can I use a USB hub and control the iPad with a keyboard and mouse, and plug in a monitor as well? I wonder if my touchscreen display on my desk will control the iPad.

 

[ofarlig]

I don't think that's the direction Apple wants to go... As much as they would like to sell more Magic Keyboards and pencils, I highly doubt they would want to go the direction of the Surface pro (because that's what we are talking about).
Using DaVinci Resolve on iPad without a keyboard is very similar (actually slightly worse) than using it on a Surface pro in terms of touch. It's of course better than nothing. Better than no DaVinci on iPad. So Apple would rather a developer port their apps unoptimized than not port them at all, but they would much prefer it to be optimized for touch. And Final Cut shows it. And productivity and professional doesn't meant no touch optimization. You can have both. It's just more work for the developers.

I am not saying that is Apples ideal situation, but I think they are realising that they haven’t been getting most developers on board with making their applications touch. So I think they are starting to improve things with the iPads that aren’t promoting a touch first approach like external monitors, stage manager, mouse, keyboard and such to make it easier to run more professional apps that aren’t just touch based. And I think they will help developers bring them over even if their UI isn’t made with touch as a first priority to be able to make 30% off the sale.

And no it isn’t really the direction of the Surface Pro, for the Surface Pro they have taken a mouse first OS and added support for touch (while most apps are made for mouse input). In the iPad Pros case it would be taking a touch first OS and adding enough support so that there can be apps that use mouse first and works properly and where professional apps have a place. Most apps on the iPad Pro will still be touch first, the core OS would be touch first but there would be apps that have a UI most suited for a mouse.

 

[Digitalguy]

I am not saying that is Apples ideal situation, but I think they are realising that they haven’t been getting most developers on board with making their applications touch. So I think they are starting to improve things with the iPads that aren’t promoting a touch first approach like external monitors, stage manager, mouse, keyboard and such to make it easier to run more professional apps that aren’t just touch based. And I think they will help developers bring them over even if their UI isn’t made with touch as a first priority to be able to make 30% off the sale.

And no it isn’t really the direction of the Surface Pro, for the Surface Pro they have taken a mouse first OS and added support for touch (while most apps are made for mouse input). In the iPad Pros case it would be taking a touch first OS and adding enough support so that there can be apps that use mouse first and works properly and where professional apps have a place. Most apps on the iPad Pro will still be touch first, the core OS would be touch first but there would be apps that have a UI most suited for a mouse.

Maybe what I said wasn't clear enough. When I said this is the direction of the Surface pro, I was referring precising to these pro apps, not to the OS or to all the other apps, which are touch first.
And as I said it's better than nothing so I agree that Apple will gladly take it, although that's not what they would have preferred.
So again these apps would work roughly like they work on a Surface pro, but that doesn't make the iPad as a whole a Surface pro.
Having said that I have been using Surface devices, and clones thereof, for years for music apps on the music rest of my piano, so without keyboard and mouse, but with a pen, and it's doable, not great, but it works.

 

[SteveJUAE]

Apple is already making as easy as possible to port apps, I doubt they can do much more, other that trying to convince some major software houses to port their apps to iPadOS, even without optimising them for touch, like it happened with DaVinci Resolve... Remember that for companies that means giving Apple 30% so not a huge incentive to do that...

Some subscriptions based apps could skip that like Microsoft does, but Microsoft is a competitor with Surface so has not a big incentive to make Office equal on iPad. Other major free app would be full Chrome, but Google is a competitor too so even if it becomes possible to have full browsers with extentions I doubt they will do it and (outside the US) there is whatsapp, which is a huge deal for businesses in many countries, but Facebook hates Apple (who has implemented anti-tracking options) and they'll avoid to make an iPad app...

And even just this is a huge deal. If iPadOS could run full Office, full Chrome and whatsapp it would be a huge deal for many businesses and individual around the world.... much bigger than FCP and Logic....

Apple too have little interest simply by their own metrics the number of regular pro software users even on Mac's is a very low percentage. I suspect their numbers tell them its not likely to grow significantly by giving pro apps to IpadOS and why its been starved for so long

Given changes in AS, if cross compatibility makes porting software almost effortless then I can see something on the horizon, possibly or a last ditch to save on declining sales etc

Simple fact is Apple largest group of users by far are just normal home users and hobbyists who do not buy or use higher end pro software as much as we may like to think otherwise

 

[Digitalguy]

Apple too have little interest simply by their own metrics the number of regular pro software users even on Mac's is a very low percentage. I suspect their numbers tell them its not likely to grow significantly by giving pro apps to IpadOS and why its been starved for so long

Given changes in AS, if cross compatibility makes porting software almost effortless then I can see something on the horizon, possibly or a last ditch to save on declining sales etc

Simple fact is Apple largest group of users by far are just normal home users and hobbyists who do not buy or use higher end pro software as much as we may like to think otherwise

From what I understand, porting apps from MacOS to iPadOS, even with minimal UI changes, is much more work than making Intel apps Universal, despite the use of the same programming language. So it's definitely not effortless. Unless Apple makes some fork of MacOS that could run on some iPads.
Having said that, the incentive for Apple is not so much increasing the market share compared to Windows, but pushing people (mainly people who already have an iPad) to buy more expensive iPads. The majority of users you mention will continue to buy base iPads, but there is a niche of users who have either older pros or non pro iPads who would upgrade to M series ones, including in some cases the 16GB RAM ones, just because of pro apps or pro features on iPadOS. And margins on those iPads and accessories are pretty fat.

 

[Ludatyk]

Having said that, the incentive for Apple is not so much increasing the market share compared to Windows, but pushing people (mainly people who already have an iPad) to buy more expensive iPads. The majority of users you mention will continue to buy base iPads, but there is a niche of users who have either older pros or non pro iPads who would upgrade to M series ones, including in some cases the 16GB RAM ones, just because of pro apps or pro features on iPadOS. And margins on those iPads and accessories are pretty fat.

Good point. And I'll like to add pushing those users to buy more expensive iPads will result in deciding where the Mac fits in their lineup.

Because people tend to say... "if I could get macOS on the iPad OR certain pro apps (features) on the iPad, then I no longer need a Mac."

 

[Digitalguy]

Good point. And I'll like to add pushing those users to buy more expensive iPads will result in deciding where the Mac fits in their lineup.

Because people tend to say... "if I could get macOS on the iPad OR certain pro apps (features) on the iPad, then I no longer need a Mac."

My guess is that as long as iPad does not run MacOS Apple is more than happy that they replace some Macs with iPad pros and will gladly get 30% on app purchases

 

[SteveJUAE]

From what I understand, porting apps from MacOS to iPadOS, even with minimal UI changes, is much more work than making Intel apps Universal, despite the use of the same programming language. So it's definitely not effortless. Unless Apple makes some fork of MacOS that could run on some iPads.
Having said that, the incentive for Apple is not so much increasing the market share compared to Windows, but pushing people (mainly people who already have an iPad) to buy more expensive iPads. The majority of users you mention will continue to buy base iPads, but there is a niche of users who have either older pros or non pro iPads who would upgrade to M series ones, including in some cases the 16GB RAM ones, just because of pro apps or pro features on iPadOS. And margins on those iPads and accessories are pretty fat.

Yep there are plenty of us who always want latest and greatest just because its there

 

[Boil]

• 16" iPad Studio
• Apple Pencil 3
• Magic Keyboard Studio
• Mixed Reality Headset
• Apple Watch Ultra

All one needs...!?!

 

[sparksd]

• 16" iPad Studio
• Apple Pencil 3
• Magic Keyboard Studio
• Mixed Reality Headset
• Apple Watch Ultra

All one needs...!?!

And likely that few will afford!

 

[okkibs]

The Watch won't pair without an iPhone so you'll need that.

 

[Boil]

The Watch won't pair without an iPhone so you'll need that.

There are rumors that the Watch could be allowed to pair with iPads in the future...

 

[madat42]

I’ve been using Remote Desktop on my iPad to connect to my Windows machines for years and it’s has been the best way to replace my laptop. I think there are other apps and services out there to make remoting even easier. But I am surprised that Apple has not just made remoting from an iPad to a Mac a default, out-of-the-box feature like Sidecar yet.

 

[Digitalguy]

I’ve been using Remote Desktop on my iPad to connect to my Windows machines for years and it’s has been the best way to replace my laptop. I think there are other apps and services out there to make remoting even easier. But I am surprised that Apple has not just made remoting from an iPad to a Mac a default, out-of-the-box feature like Sidecar yet.

I did that for a couple of years, first with my 9.7 pro (and Logitech create keyboard) and than with my 11" pro and Magic Keyboard. But a couple of times I had connection issues with cellular (no signal in some places) and at that point I couldn't do much with the iPad. I moved to a cellular thinkpad last year and since then the experience has definitely improved. It's even lighter than the 11" + MK, it's better on my lap, and if I have an issue with internet I have all my cloud storage synced locally (impossible with iPad) and all my software can be operated without internet for the most part.

 

[Abazigal]

Just a quick question. Can I use a USB hub and control the iPad with a keyboard and mouse, and plug in a monitor as well? I wonder if my touchscreen display on my desk will control the iPad.

Yes to the first question, not sure about the use of touchscreen.

 

[okkibs]

Though the USB hub will only output video if it has a direct video output. If it only has USB ports, those USB-C ports will not output video. So if the hub has HDMI/DP it will work, a USB-C adapter (cable) will only work if it's connected directly to the iPad.