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danny842003

macrumors 68000
Jun 6, 2017
1,968
2,252
Besides making enough profit on iPad mini sales themselves, there is one other reason, in my opinion, that may be compelling enough for Apple to keep the mini somewhat updated indefinitely--and that's ebooks. Comfortably enjoying an ebook is the one specific mainstream use case (that I can think of) that the mini does exceptionally better than every other Apple device. If the mini is discontinued, passionate ebook readers may leave the iPad and iBooks ecosystem to find a more ideal reading form factor, taking with them a portion of the iBooks market and giving it to Apple's competitors. This leak in the ecosystem could also lead to Apple losing portions of other markets like movies and TV shows as well.

This is all just theory of course. I have no idea if the numbers would be significant, which is what it would come down to.

If people need an iPad for Ebooks then surely Apple can keep selling the mini 4 for a good while. It's not like it's going to struggle if that's it's main use.
To be honest if ebooks is your key concern I'm not sure why people would choose an iPad I have found e-ink devices to be much better for reading on.
 
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RickTaylor

macrumors 6502a
Nov 9, 2013
814
331
If people need an iPad for Ebooks then surely Apple can keep selling the mini 4 for a good while. It's not like it's going to struggle if that's it's main use.
To be honest if ebooks is your key concern I'm not sure why people would choose an iPad I have found e-ink devices to be much better for reading on.

I bought an iPad mini for reading, and I expect I will use it as long as it works for this purpose. I originally tried an e-ink reader, but it wasn't practical for reading PDF documents with lots of equations and diagrams.
 
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sracer

macrumors G4
Apr 9, 2010
10,381
13,213
where hip is spoken
I bought an iPad mini for reading, and I expect I will use it as long as it works for this purpose. I originally tried an e-ink reader, but it wasn't practical for reading PDF documents with lots of equations and diagrams.
...and many e-ink readers have severely underpowered processors, making the reading experience less than enjoyable.

I have a Kobo and older Kindle e-ink readers that are terrific for traditional ebooks, but for reading color and/or scanned material the iPad works best. I'm a fan of vintage comics, magazines, and catalogs and have many scans of them and they really shine on the iPad.
 

rkuo

macrumors 65816
Sep 25, 2010
1,306
950
...and many e-ink readers have severely underpowered processors, making the reading experience less than enjoyable.

I have a Kobo and older Kindle e-ink readers that are terrific for traditional ebooks, but for reading color and/or scanned material the iPad works best. I'm a fan of vintage comics, magazines, and catalogs and have many scans of them and they really shine on the iPad.
If I'm going to carry around a book sized device, it's going to be an iPad Mini. I have no need for a single purpose device like an e-ink reader.
 
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JPack

macrumors G5
Mar 27, 2017
13,260
25,537
If iPad mini is left with competing downwards to Kindle e-readers and Fire tablets, it's a sure sign of trouble.

The Fire starts at $49 and has a 7" IPS display. No, it doesn't have the same PPI or a laminated display. But it's $49 vs. $299/$399.

Consumers buy iPad mini for the versatility. Fire tablets and phablets are quickly diminishing the value of iPad mini.
 
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rkuo

macrumors 65816
Sep 25, 2010
1,306
950
If iPad mini is left with competing downwards to Kindle e-readers and Fire tablets, it's a sure sign of trouble.

The Fire starts at $49 and has a 7" IPS display. No, it doesn't have the same PPI or a laminated display. But it's $49 vs. $299/$399.

Consumers buy iPad mini for the versatility. Fire tablets and phablets are quickly diminishing the value of iPad mini.
You could say the same about all Apple products, not just the iPad Mini. Cheap alternatives have always been there on the sidelines. I don't see it as being more of an issue for the iPad Mini. We all know Apple products cost more.
 
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joeblow7777

macrumors 604
Sep 7, 2010
7,144
8,962
...and many e-ink readers have severely underpowered processors, making the reading experience less than enjoyable.

I have a Kobo and older Kindle e-ink readers that are terrific for traditional ebooks, but for reading color and/or scanned material the iPad works best. I'm a fan of vintage comics, magazines, and catalogs and have many scans of them and they really shine on the iPad.

Yeah, e-ink ereaders are for straight up text (ie. novels), not comics, magazines, etc. They don't need much processing power to just refresh pages of text.
 

mcrmama

macrumors member
Aug 22, 2017
41
16
My husband has a mini 2 and a friend just upgraded to the mini 4. It is a great portable size. I tend to read on my ipad rather than my e-ink reader as I can do that among so many other things on one device.
 

danny842003

macrumors 68000
Jun 6, 2017
1,968
2,252
I bought an iPad mini for reading, and I expect I will use it as long as it works for this purpose. I originally tried an e-ink reader, but it wasn't practical for reading PDF documents with lots of equations and diagrams.

Thats understandable but I was talking more about standard books than text books. Although having just upgraded from a mini 2 to 10.5 I have found it much easier to read my text books with diagrams and equations on the larger screen, I don't feel the mini is really suited to that task.
 

JPack

macrumors G5
Mar 27, 2017
13,260
25,537
You could say the same about all Apple products, not just the iPad Mini. Cheap alternatives have always been there on the sidelines. I don't see it as being more of an issue for the iPad Mini. We all know Apple products cost more.

Not really, because other Apple products have been innovative. The iPad mini has nothing special except for iOS.

The "cheap alternatives" have become really cheap and very usable at the same time. When the iPad mini was launched in 2012, it was a $329 product. The Nexus 7 was $249. There was a slight premium for running iOS. Today, the iPad mini is $399 and the Amazon Fire 7 is $49. The premium for running iOS is too high for many consumers.

The iPad mini has experienced virtually no innovation and neither have other mini tablets on the market. The lack of innovation means price becomes the deciding factor. Other Apple products have unique features to justify the price.
  • iPhone - Apple Pay, camera quality, 3D Touch, Taptic Engine
  • iPad Pro - Pencil, ProMotion, True Tone
  • Mac/MacBook - Regular updates to CPU, GPU, storage, hardware interface, 4K/5K displays, MagSafe, Force Touch, Touch Bar
 

JPack

macrumors G5
Mar 27, 2017
13,260
25,537
It should close to a release date for the Mini 5! September or March 2018!

If you make up a date like that, can you at least try to justify it?

Is the current iPad mini 4 selling so well, Apple didn't want to launch a new mini in March or June this year alongside other iPads? Or perhaps phablet displays will shrink in 2018 and Apple thinks it has a better chance marketing a small tablet?
 

Hughmnyksj

macrumors newbie
Sep 1, 2017
1
2
Denmark
The mini 4 was a vast improvement on the mini 2. Mini 3 deserved being ignored and apparently was. The mini 4 is much more robust and has the best screen colour on any tablet.
Any speculation about the format seems futile, because Apple, being undeniably consumer-centric, will do whatever they want.
I don't understand how anyone can think that an iPhone any smaller than 7.9" can replace a mini, which is far more portable than people without one think it is.
Apple wants us all to have both, but that's because they're greedy. I tolerate Android on a Samsung phone because I have the delights of iOS on my mini 4 64 and can share content on Dropbox as well as Onedrive. I also have an excellent Canon S120 camera that connects with my mini by wifi, produces vastly superior, physically zoomable by 5x, photos. It also takes pictures of, or films, the night sky. No ther small device does that!
Okay, so I'm not a city dweller, nor do I live in California, and as a Scandinavian I have small rucksack...
Maybe I'll just have to grab a new mini 4 128 to future-proof my life for a while, but a mini 5 would be great. But if Apple doesn't want it there...
Long live the iPad mini!
If Apple think they actually revised the mini when they released 3 & 4 that might be their problem to begin with. So far they haven't given anyone an insentive to update their mini 2 to a mini 3 or 4.

The mini 3 was some sort of practical joke right? Let's see who is stupid enough to pay extra for just Touch ID and nothing else.
The mini 4 was better, but it was still a year old tech when it was introduced and only a year behind the mini 2. A nice upgrade but not as big of an upgrade as it could have been - and that was at release.

The only time the mini has sold well is when it had the same tech as everything else - but it doesn't seem like Apple even want to try that anymore in fear of being wrong. That problem goes for the 9.7 iPad Pro as well. Funny how the new 10.5 pro is selling well now that it actually has matching hardware to the 12.9.

I guess I believe people know specs more than they do - but the mini 3 was not hard to figure out as 'don't upgrade' for most people. If Apple released the smaller iphone with last years technology, I'm sure people wouldn't buy it nearly as much over the plus model.

I'm not saying your wrong or there is another mini coming - just that Apple did this themselves, either intentionally or by fault. The demand isn't there because Apple doesn't want it there.
 

Atomic1977

macrumors 6502
Jul 8, 2017
389
182
West Bend Wisconsin
I just got my iPad mini 2 in January of this year. It still works great as a option to check my email and Facebook and some games other than my big computer. And web browsing. I don't really see a need for a mini 4 but it is puzzling why they have not done any more versions of this line.
 

007p

macrumors 6502a
Mar 7, 2012
992
662
I just got my iPad mini 2 in January of this year. It still works great as a option to check my email and Facebook and some games other than my big computer. And web browsing. I don't really see a need for a mini 4 but it is puzzling why they have not done any more versions of this line.

It's not really out of place for them not to have updated it yet.

The first mini had an A5 in it. I believe the second mini came out a year later with the A7.

The third mini came out with no spec bump, just Touch ID, I personally don't even count this as '3'.

The iPad mini 4 then came out two years later than the mini 2 - which was the last mini to actually have a spec bump.

With all that said - 2 years for the next mini spec bump is actually about right.....not saying they will update it, but if they were going to, it would be this month.
 

mcrawley

macrumors member
Oct 12, 2011
43
34
b/t North Zulch and Snook
I wonder how much physical aspects come into play in with Apple's thinking with the mini.

For instance, battery life vs it's larger brothers. If it can't support X hours of battery life with the various needed spec upgrades, Apple won't offer it because it diminishes the consumer's view of the brand as a whole and weakens the halo effect .

While I appreciate Jpack's reliance on the hard sales data of past changes, internal politics and turf battles may be more important to the mini's future. Those have proven so key to Apple's roadmap in the past, that we know far more about the personalities of non-CEO's in Apple than we do for almost any other company.

I still think there is a logical place for the mini but not knowing internally what's going on in all aspects, it is hard to say what Apple will do.
 

Yebubbleman

macrumors 603
May 20, 2010
6,011
2,599
Los Angeles, CA
You could say the same about all Apple products, not just the iPad Mini. Cheap alternatives have always been there on the sidelines. I don't see it as being more of an issue for the iPad Mini. We all know Apple products cost more.

Apples and oranges comparison. The iPad mini is $400 and while it isn't the zippiest iOS device on the market, it is certainly more capable as a device than its nearest competition, a $50 Kindle Fire. The same isn't true of any other Apple Product and its nearest competitor. The one exception to that might be the iPod touch. Though the iPod touch and the iPad mini have in common that they're both running on an A8 processor and are extremely unlikely to be updated (as they're likely to be replaced by the iPhone SE and the fifth generation iPad or a direct successor thereof).

It should close to a discontinuation date for the Mini! September or March 2018!

Fixed that one for ya!

Two models, with 3 color options - so technically 6 models but let's not split hairs ;)
That's x3 times as many models as the MBA (excluding configurations) and if you listen to those fanboys it's the greatest thing since coca colas new recipe and should live forever...

Heh...I was sorta waiting for someone to play the "well, it's technically six configurations" card. ;) Though, Apple, when getting ready to cull an iPad model, is typically not one to cull colors (save for maybe gold) nor cellular.

Though, I wouldn't compare it to the MacBook Air, which can be customized and is clearly being kept around to ease the transitions to (a) retina-only laptops and (b) USB-C/Thunderbolt 3 from USB-A and Thunderbolt 2/MiniDP, and (c) MagSafe-less charging (transitions that, aside from Retina, are also applicable to the 15-inch Mid 2015 MBP that is also still around).

I think that unlike the iPad mini 4, the 2015 MacBook Air and 15" MacBook Pro serves a precise function in Apple's lineup and is there as a transition product for users that don't want to or can't move to the newer designs. The iPad mini 4 doesn't exactly serve that kind of a function.

Though fanboys of all three products will argue about how they're all crucial and we know the writing for them is on the wall. I actually am a fan of all three of them (though I wish they retained the 2015 15" Retina that had a discrete GPU), but I know they're not there forever. Most people can't seem to divorce what they want reality to be and what they think it is from what it actually is.

Yes of course - but since Apple gave up before it happened it's impossible to know for certain. It's not like they decided to stop upgrading and marketing it after the new plus phones - it happened at the same time.
If they had upgraded it 'properly' and continued pushing it like the mini 2, things most likely would have been different - whether it would have still 'failed' is all guess work. It's hard to say if analyst were correct when it comes to Apple products imo - the rest of the mini tablet market would have failed purely because they weren't iPads.

I'd buy into the whole "it's hard to know whether or not it'd be successful because Apple never gave it a fair chance" song and dance were it not for the fact that literally every other mini tablet manufacturer has pulled out of the race. The Nexus 7 never had a successor and it was the iPad mini's most popular competitor. The current state of affairs for the Kindle Fire is a total joke. And Samsung only replaced the 9.7" Galaxy Tab S2 with a Galaxy Tab S3 version; they didn't do anything with the 8.0" model. That should tell you that it isn't that Apple didn't give the iPad mini a chance anywhere near as much as it was the mini tablet party winding down.
 
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chasonstone

macrumors 6502
Dec 24, 2010
269
287
Kentucky
I know this thread was started months ago, but I just think smaller tablets are becoming a harder sell for a lot of people. I think Apple recognizes this, especially seeing how popular the larger iPhone has become. When I went plus with my iPhone I virtually never used my iPad mini anymore. Things that I would always pick up the iPad for went back to my phone. I know 5.5 to 7.9 is significant, but for a lot of things it just wasn't significant enough to pick up the mini. I wanted an iPad for textbooks, so I got the iPad Air 2. I've found having it that some of that same stuff that shifted from the mini to the plus iPhone went back to the 9.7 inch iPad.

I'm not saying they won't ever update the mini, but I don't think it will get much focus from them if they do.
 

JohnnyGo

macrumors 6502a
Sep 9, 2009
956
620
I know this thread was started months ago, but I just think smaller tablets are becoming a harder sell for a lot of people. I think Apple recognizes this, especially seeing how popular the larger iPhone has become. When I went plus with my iPhone I virtually never used my iPad mini anymore. Things that I would always pick up the iPad for went back to my phone. I know 5.5 to 7.9 is significant, but for a lot of things it just wasn't significant enough to pick up the mini. I wanted an iPad for textbooks, so I got the iPad Air 2. I've found having it that some of that same stuff that shifted from the mini to the plus iPhone went back to the 9.7 inch iPad.

I'm not saying they won't ever update the mini, but I don't think it will get much focus from them if they do.

I think your use case / reaction to ever larger screens on iPhone is about average/most common amongst users. Given the rumors that in 2018 will see a >6” screen on an iPhone, Apple plans probably do not forecast for an upgraded mini iPad.

On the other hand, there are use cases for the iPad mini that are outside of this “normal” use:
- kids without phones
- iPhone users that prefer the 4” screens

One has to assume that Apple thinks the 2017 iPad should be the ideal path for these other users.
 

titrau

Suspended
Aug 16, 2017
1,488
450
No rumors ipad mini 5 leak ... no hope release on event 12TH coming ...

Love the way mini style :apple:
 

Yebubbleman

macrumors 603
May 20, 2010
6,011
2,599
Los Angeles, CA
I know this thread was started months ago, but I just think smaller tablets are becoming a harder sell for a lot of people. I think Apple recognizes this, especially seeing how popular the larger iPhone has become. When I went plus with my iPhone I virtually never used my iPad mini anymore. Things that I would always pick up the iPad for went back to my phone. I know 5.5 to 7.9 is significant, but for a lot of things it just wasn't significant enough to pick up the mini. I wanted an iPad for textbooks, so I got the iPad Air 2. I've found having it that some of that same stuff that shifted from the mini to the plus iPhone went back to the 9.7 inch iPad.

I'm not saying they won't ever update the mini, but I don't think it will get much focus from them if they do.

The author of this article had a couple of good arguments: https://www.macobserver.com/columns-opinions/editorial/why-ipad-mini-on-deathbed/

Also a number of solid theories as to why the 128GB mini 4 model(s) was(/were) kept versus the 32GB model in March as well as why they can't sell it for cheaper. Someone in the thread posted it a few pages back. Good read.
 

AFEPPL

macrumors 68030
Sep 30, 2014
2,644
1,571
England
I think your use case / reaction to ever larger screens on iPhone is about average/most common amongst users. Given the rumors that in 2018 will see a >6” screen on an iPhone, Apple plans probably do not forecast for an upgraded mini iPad.

On the other hand, there are use cases for the iPad mini that are outside of this “normal” use:
- kids without phones
- iPhone users that prefer the 4” screens

One has to assume that Apple thinks the 2017 iPad should be the ideal path for these other users.

No ones really buying larger iPhones, i wouldnt be surprised if they go the way of the dodo..
Look at the u-turn by apple with the SE to get a 4" device back on the market.
 
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