iPad mini iPad mini 5

[facemeat]

I really don't understand why the iPad Mini has to be phased out with the excuse that the iPhone Plus can replace it. I've owned both and the Mini is still miles ahead of the iPhone in terms of screen estate, even if the iPhone would be bumped up to a 5,8 display.
I have an air 2 but I really miss the mini 2 I had before it, I don't need much in a new mini, pen support, a processor and ram bump would do in order for it to stay relevant for a few years.

 

[007p]

The mini 4 got the same cpu as the Air 2! It just hasn't been updated since with Pencil support or a spec bump.

It got the same chip as the Air 2, with a core disabled and a whole year later.

Meanwhile, at the same time the 12.9" pro got released with an A9X and 4gb RAM. I'm not saying it should have gotten that, but at least an A9 would have been good...

 

[The Catalyst]

Apple has a long history of being a little behind the pack in what tech they give us in our i Gadgets. Every time they release something new this place complains that "we're getting an old processor", "we're not getting a bump in RAM", "we're not getting OLED", and the latest "we're not getting the anti reflective coating on the budget iPad screens". So it should come as no surprise that the Mini was released time and time again "almost" being the miniature iPad everyone wanted.

Apple has always been about their margins.

 

[JPack]

If Apple think they actually revised the mini when they released 3 & 4 that might be their problem to begin with. So far they haven't given anyone an insentive to update their mini 2 to a mini 3 or 4.

The mini 3 was some sort of practical joke right? Let's see who is stupid enough to pay extra for just Touch ID and nothing else.
The mini 4 was better, but it was still a year old tech when it was introduced and only a year behind the mini 2. A nice upgrade but not as big of an upgrade as it could have been - and that was at release.

The only time the mini has sold well is when it had the same tech as everything else - but it doesn't seem like Apple even want to try that anymore in fear of being wrong. That problem goes for the 9.7 iPad Pro as well. Funny how the new 10.5 pro is selling well now that it actually has matching hardware to the 12.9.

I guess I believe people know specs more than they do - but the mini 3 was not hard to figure out as 'don't upgrade' for most people. If Apple released the smaller iphone with last years technology, I'm sure people wouldn't buy it nearly as much over the plus model.

I'm not saying your wrong or there is another mini coming - just that Apple did this themselves, either intentionally or by fault. The demand isn't there because Apple doesn't want it there.

I agree the mini 3 wasn't a worthwhile upgrade, but the mini 4 was a full effort by Apple except the processor. It had 2GB of memory, thin chassis, and laminated display like the Air 2.

By comparison, the 2017 iPad has even older hardware. At launch, the 2017 iPad had a 1.5 year old A9 based on a 3.5 year old chassis and display. Yet, the 2017 iPad reversed 13 consecutive quarters of year-over-year iPad shipment declines.

Do consumers care about older hardware? It seems not. If consumers were interested in the 7.9-inch form factor, the 1 year old SoC shouldn't have held them back. The 1.5 year old A9 in the iPad (2017) certainly didn't seem to hold back sales. Nor the 3.5 year old display and chassis.

So, what's the difference between iPad mini 4 and iPad (2017)? Price and display size. $399 vs. $329. 7.9-inch vs. 9.7-inch. The price difference is negligible in my opinion. It was the display that made all the difference.

At the time of launch:

• iPad Mini 4 (2015) - A8 (1 year old SoC), 2GB RAM, 16GB, 6.1mm depth (2014 feature), full-gamut laminated display
• iPad 9.7" (2017) - A9 (1.5 year old SoC), 2GB RAM, 32GB, 7.5mm depth (2013 feature), non-laminated

 

[subjonas]

as the iPhone continuously grows larger

Why the iPad mini is On Its Deathbed

Just to clarify. People seem to be under the impression that the iPhone is still growing in size because of the rumored 5.8" iPhone 8, but what they don't seem to realize is that the 8 will have about the same screen area size as the 5.5" because of the narrower aspect ratio (20:9). The difference will be at most only 0.3 square inches (about two matchsticks), and likely even less since it's doubtful that number takes into account the camera/speaker notch. There is even a chance the 5.8" screen will be significantly SMALLER than the 5.5" due to the rumored dedicated "function area" at the bottom of the screen, leaving the 8 with a 5.1" true diagonal. But we'll see what Apple does in that regard.

So while I'm sure the one-time size jump of the iPhone in 2014 has had an impact on iPad mini sales since then, the notion that the iPhone is still getting bigger and will therefore eat into mini sales at an even faster rate is seemingly not based on any fact but a misinterpretation of a number.

 

[iMacmatician]

Just to clarify. People seem to be under the impression that the iPhone is still growing in size because of the rumored 5.8" iPhone 8, but what they don't seem to realize is that the 8 will have about the same screen area size as the 5.5" because of the narrower aspect ratio (20:9). The difference will be at most only 0.3 square inches (about two matchsticks), and likely even less since it's doubtful that number takes into account the camera/speaker notch. There is even a chance the 5.8" screen will be significantly SMALLER than the 5.5" due to the rumored dedicated "function area" at the bottom of the screen, leaving the 8 with a 5.1" true diagonal. But we'll see what Apple does in that regard.

The rumored point count of the iPhone (2017 OLED) is almost identical to the point count of the 7 Plus.

• iPhone 7 Plus: 414x736 points — 304,704 points
• iPhone (2017 OLED): 375x812 points — 304,500 points

The physical display, however, has the "notch" and rounded corners to take into account.

 

[AFEPPL]

Right after Apple introduced the mini 3 and mini 4, sales of 7.9" iPads tumbled, much more so than 9.7" and 12.9" devices. Apple already tried revising the mini but demand didn't follow.

Pls share your inside sales numbers so we can all have a look and verify for ourselves.
Or provide a link to the speculative data.

Apple don't release a model breakdown for the iPad, so I'm sure many would love to see this otherwise retract your comment as hyperbole or "in my opinion", rather than fact.

It doesn't need to have pencil support, just needs a CPU update.
Hell my two pro devices have never seen a pencil in their lives and I can't see they ever will.

 

[subjonas]

Besides making enough profit on iPad mini sales themselves, there is one other reason, in my opinion, that may be compelling enough for Apple to keep the mini somewhat updated indefinitely--and that's ebooks. Comfortably enjoying an ebook is the one specific mainstream use case (that I can think of) that the mini does exceptionally better than every other Apple device. If the mini is discontinued, passionate ebook readers may leave the iPad and iBooks ecosystem to find a more ideal reading form factor, taking with them a portion of the iBooks market and giving it to Apple's competitors. This leak in the ecosystem could also lead to Apple losing portions of other markets like movies and TV shows as well.

This is all just theory of course. I have no idea if the numbers would be significant, which is what it would come down to.

 

[JPack]

Pls share your inside sales numbers so we can all have a look and verify for ourselves.
Or provide a link to the speculative data.

Apple don't release a model breakdown for the iPad, so I'm sure many would love to see this otherwise retract your comment as hyperbole or "in my opinion", rather than fact.

It doesn't need to have pencil support, just needs a CPU update.
Hell my two pro devices have never seen a pencil in their lives and I can't see they ever will.

https://www.aboveavalon.com/notes/2017/3/29/apple-is-pushing-ipad-like-never-before
[doublepost=1503632953][/doublepost]

Besides making enough profit on iPad mini sales themselves, there is one other reason, in my opinion, that may be compelling enough for Apple to keep the mini somewhat updated indefinitely--and that's ebooks. Comfortably enjoying an ebook is the one specific mainstream use case (that I can think of) that the mini does exceptionally better than every other Apple device. If the mini is discontinued, passionate ebook readers may leave the iPad and iBooks ecosystem to find a more ideal reading form factor, taking with them a portion of the iBooks market and giving it to Apple's competitors. This leak in the ecosystem could also lead to Apple losing portions of other markets like movies and TV shows as well.

This is all just theory of course. I have no idea if the numbers would be significant, which is what it would come down to.

Is the iBooks ecosystem worth $399, the price of an iPad mini? The cost of entry into the Amazon Kindle/Fire ecosystem is sub-$100. I think most consumers will find it hard to justify $399 for an e-reader.

 

[44267547]

Just to clarify. People seem to be under the impression that the iPhone is still growing in size because of the rumored 5.8" iPhone 8, but what they don't seem to realize is that the 8 will have about the same screen area size as the 5.5" because of the narrower aspect ratio (20:9). The difference will be at most only 0.3 square inches (about two matchsticks), and likely even less since it's doubtful that number takes into account the camera/speaker notch. There is even a chance the 5.8" screen will be significantly SMALLER than the 5.5" due to the rumored dedicated "function area" at the bottom of the screen, leaving the 8 with a 5.1" true diagonal. But we'll see what Apple does in that regard.

So while I'm sure the one-time size jump of the iPhone in 2014 has had an impact on iPad mini sales since then, the notion that the iPhone is still getting bigger and will therefore eat into mini sales at an even faster rate is seemingly not based on any fact but a misinterpretation of a number.

But if you look at it in retrospect, iPhones or or smart phones in general have proportionally grown larger over the years. I'm not referring just to the 5.8 rumored OLED model. But I'm also referring to how smart phones started at a 3.5 inch display, followed by a 4 inch/4.5/4.7/5.0/5.5/, etc. Regardless of retaining the same footprint or not of future iPhones, smart phones still have increasingly grown larger, even considering not just the iPhone, but look at the Galaxy series as well reaching a six-inch form factor.

The point being, phones have superseded each other increasing in size every year, and it doesn't apply to everybody's experience how it's affected the iPad mini, but it certainly has taken it's toll in some affect or another.

 

[AFEPPL]

https://www.aboveavalon.com/notes/2017/3/29/apple-is-pushing-ipad-like-never-before
[doublepost=1503632953][/doublepost]

So no real data at all, just speculation from someone else who doesn't know anything about apples internal sales numbers.

 

[JPack]

So no real data at all, just speculation from someone else who doesn't know anything about apples internal sales numbers.

The Fiksu SDK is used by customers like Amazon, Best Buy, and eBay. Hardly speculation, but have it your way. It's cute that you think usage data can only come from Apple.

 

[AFEPPL]

The Fiksu SDK is used by customers like Amazon, Best Buy, and eBay. Hardly speculation, but have it your way. It's cute that you think usage data can only come from Apple.

No one else has the sales break down, it's pure speculation by a 3rd party and there's no point presenting it as real insider data.

Also it's "sales data" we're talking about, usage cuteness is something completely different

 

[raccoontail]

Best Buy just lowered their price for the wifi 128GB iPad Mini 4 to $299. ($40 less than what apple is selling refurbs for..) Might be a sign of an upcoming upgrade.

 

[IJBrekke]

Best Buy just lowered their price for the wifi 128GB iPad Mini 4 to $299. ($40 less than what apple is selling refurbs for..) Might be a sign of an upcoming upgrade.

It's very difficult to say. There's a good chance they sell close to zero of them at the full $399, might just be a necessary market adjustment.

 

[Greenmeenie]

Best way to revitalize the mini sales is to release an ipad mini pro. One where you can use the apple pencil with it. The mini is the perfect travel size digital sketchbook and note taking device.

 

[subjonas]

https://www.aboveavalon.com/notes/2017/3/29/apple-is-pushing-ipad-like-never-before
[doublepost=1503632953][/doublepost]

Is the iBooks ecosystem worth $399, the price of an iPad mini? The cost of entry into the Amazon Kindle/Fire ecosystem is sub-$100. I think most consumers will find it hard to justify $399 for an e-reader.

Yeah I don't know what the numbers are, but there could be a significant number who'd be willing to pay more for Apple quality hardware and software. And of course the mini could be used as an additional extension device to the Apple ecosystem for other uses.
[doublepost=1503775653][/doublepost]

But if you look at it in retrospect, iPhones or or smart phones in general have proportionally grown larger over the years. I'm not referring just to the 5.8 rumored OLED model. But I'm also referring to how smart phones started at a 3.5 inch display, followed by a 4 inch/4.5/4.7/5.0/5.5/, etc. Regardless of retaining the same footprint or not of future iPhones, smart phones still have increasingly grown larger, even considering not just the iPhone, but look at the Galaxy series as well reaching a six-inch form factor.

The point being, phones have superseded each other increasing in size every year, and it doesn't apply to everybody's experience how it's affected the iPad mini, but it certainly has taken it's toll in some affect or another.

Perhaps the iPhone will continue to grow in size but personally I just don't see Apple's past activity as a strong indication of that. But we'll see.

 

[rui no onna]

Is the iBooks ecosystem worth $399, the price of an iPad mini? The cost of entry into the Amazon Kindle/Fire ecosystem is sub-$100. I think most consumers will find it hard to justify $399 for an e-reader.

To be perfectly honest, I find the Kindle app works better on an actual Kindle compared to Kindle for iOS. Amazon tends to have better deals on books, too.

 

[brian3uk]

Best Buy just lowered their price for the wifi 128GB iPad Mini 4 to $299. ($40 less than what apple is selling refurbs for..) Might be a sign of an upcoming upgrade.

They've been selling them for $100-125 off for months now, maybe even a year. Theres only about one week a month where they are 399.

 

[lambertjohn]

Can anyone tell me if they've heard if there will be an iPad mini 5 released soon, or at least some time this year?

It's not going to happen. The Mini 4 is the last of the little ones.

 

[Greenmeenie]

It's not going to happen. The Mini 4 is the last of the little ones.

Although it doesnt look good, you can't say that with 100% certainty. A few months before the 10.5" ipad was announced, there were strong rumors that an ipad mini pro would be announced with the 10.5" & 12.9" gen 2. That didnt happen, but doesnt mean it isn't going to happen. Eventually, the ipad mini 4 won't be able to run current software. If it's not updated next year, then i'd be inclined to agree with you. Until then, there is still a chance. Can't say either way for sure yet.

 

[Yebubbleman]

Good to see confirmation, but a surprise to no one except for die hard iPad mini fans.

The iPad mini 3 and 4 were poorly received by consumers. The data compiled by Above Avalon using Fiksu data indicated a huge decrease in 7.9" sales after those models were launched. The form factor is an evolutionary dead end just like 3.5" smartphones. It has limited productivity and media consumption value.

Apple has done everything to discourage buying the iPad mini, removing the mini from their product page footers, killing the 32GB SKU, and limiting ARKit compatibility to A9 and newer.

I know you don't say anything to necessarily discount this, but I, like many others on here, do believe that Apple's poor marketing of the mini made its lack of success a self-fulfilling prophecy to some degree. Though, cannibalization of the mini tablet market by larger form-factor tablets is a huge factor to consider as well.

I sat down and decided to, as somewhat of a thought exercise, write out what it is that the iPad mini did for me that set it apart from other iPads. The only things that came up were that it was way easier to car-mount and that it fit in my pocket. In most cases, I should get out of the habit of carrying around tons of tech wherever I go and though it's awesome and makes me feel like I'm that much closer to owning a real batmobile, a car-mounted iPad isn't the safest thing in the world; though as an infotainment replacement, it's pretty freakin' cool.

 

[Yebubbleman]

The effect of the larger phones on the iPad mini is a total red herring.

Does it apply to all customers? No. Does it apply to most customers? I'm sure the case could be made.

A lot of people use the excuse of the plus phones for the lack mini sales - for me it's when Apple decided not to care about it anymore. Since the A7 iPad mini 2, there hasn't been a mini with the current years chip :/

You don't think the two problems aren't correlated somehow (as has been suggested by numerous analysts of the mini tablet market as a whole)?

No one else has the sales break down, it's pure speculation by a 3rd party and there's no point presenting it as real insider data.

Also it's "sales data" we're talking about, usage cuteness is something completely different

Sales data is utterly irrelevant. Apple isn't positioning the iPad mini as something it wants to have sold en masse. That is why it is not a marquee iPad. That is why it is no longer the cheapest iPad. They dropped it down to a single model without updating it which has been, since Jobs first returned to Apple in 1999, the kiss of death for any product line. The end of the line. Last call before the bar closes. Whether sales data of the iPad mini is good or not is irrelevant. Apple is winding the sucker down whether it makes sense to us or not. It's just that simple.

Although it doesnt look good, you can't say that with 100% certainty. A few months before the 10.5" ipad was announced, there were strong rumors that an ipad mini pro would be announced with the 10.5" & 12.9" gen 2. That didnt happen, but doesnt mean it isn't going to happen. Eventually, the ipad mini 4 won't be able to run current software. If it's not updated next year, then i'd be inclined to agree with you. Until then, there is still a chance. Can't say either way for sure yet.

It's called MacRumors. No one can say anything with 100% certainty until it actually happens. It's a betting game, whether there's actual gambling involved or not. So, no, the person you quote can't say with 100% certainty that there won't be a new iPad mini to succeed the iPad mini 4, it's probably safe enough to wager your rent money on at this point.

Also, no, there were no strong rumors suggesting the "iPad mini Pro" or "iPad Pro mini" was ever going to come out. I call shenanigans on that claim.

 

[AFEPPL]

Sales data is utterly irrelevant. Apple isn't positioning the iPad mini as something it wants to have sold en masse. That is why it is not a marquee iPad. That is why it is no longer the cheapest iPad. They dropped it down to a single model without updating it which has been, since Jobs first returned to Apple in 1999, the kiss of death for any product line. The end of the line. Last call before the bar closes. Whether sales data of the iPad mini is good or not is irrelevant. Apple is winding the sucker down whether it makes sense to us or not. It's just that simple.
.

Two models, with 3 color options - so technically 6 models but let's not split hairs
That's x3 times as many models as the MBA (excluding configurations) and if you listen to those fanboys it's the greatest thing since coca colas new recipe and should live forever...

 

[007p]

You don't think the two problems aren't correlated somehow (as has been suggested by numerous analysts of the mini tablet market as a whole)?

Yes of course - but since Apple gave up before it happened it's impossible to know for certain. It's not like they decided to stop upgrading and marketing it after the new plus phones - it happened at the same time.
If they had upgraded it 'properly' and continued pushing it like the mini 2, things most likely would have been different - whether it would have still 'failed' is all guess work. It's hard to say if analyst were correct when it comes to Apple products imo - the rest of the mini tablet market would have failed purely because they weren't iPads.