iPad mini iPad mini 5

[Yebubbleman]

No ones really buying larger iPhones, i wouldnt be surprised if they go the way of the dodo..
Look at the u-turn by apple with the SE to get a 4" device back on the market.

The iPhone 7 Plus outsold the iPhone 7 this year.

I am unsure of how much better the iPhone 6s Plus did than the iPhone 6s compared to the iPhone 6 Plus with respect to the iPhone 6, but I know that the 7 Plus outsold the 7 more than any previous plus-sized iPhone to its non-plus counterpart.

So, no.

 

[chasonstone]

No ones really buying larger iPhones, i wouldnt be surprised if they go the way of the dodo..
Look at the u-turn by apple with the SE to get a 4" device back on the market.

Eh, they kind of are. The iPhone 7 Plus outsells the regular iPhone 7.
https://www.fastcompany.com/3067042...utselling-smaller-iphone-7s-new-holiday-data-

I wouldn't really call the SE a U-turn it's more like a device for the large screen holdouts.

 

[Josieb1]

I would buy a new iPad mini if one is announced. I have the iPad mini 4, I bought it 18 months ago. Hubby has the pro 9.7 but I never touch that I only use my mini. I also have the iPhone 6s+ but only use that when I'm out and about. I'd be gutted if Apple remove the iPad mini from its line, I wouldn't go to Android, I'm not cutting off my nose to spite my face, but a larger iPad would be inconvenient for me, it's size is the problem, it's just too big for me to hold comfortably.

 

[onepoint]

Eh, they kind of are. The iPhone 7 Plus outsells the regular iPhone 7.
https://www.fastcompany.com/3067042...utselling-smaller-iphone-7s-new-holiday-data-

I wouldn't really call the SE a U-turn it's more like a device for the large screen holdouts.

And international/emerging markets (i.e., cheaper device in more hands to lock people into ecosystem)

 

[576316]

The iPad mini 4 is the best iPad Apple have ever made, in my opinion. Also the perfect size. I use my all the time, and I'd have it since launch. So here's hoping Apple do continue the line.

 

[AFEPPL]

Not sure where they are selling. I travel the world as part of my job and never really see anyone with a plus model anymore. The only person who i did know with one sold it and got a normal 7.

However it appears they've sold some.. new one on me.
"Strategy Analytics notes that global smartphone shipments reached 353.3 million units in the first quarter of 2017. Of that 353.3 million, 21.5 million were the iPhone 7, with 17.4 million the iPhone 7 Plus".

 

[Loge]

Figures on the relative sales of the plus model are just guesses; and many would have chosen it because of the dual camera as much as the size.

 

[brian3uk]

I think people do want a bigger screen but not always a wider one. With the '8' or 'edition' being larger but not wider I think that's what people want in a phone. The 7+ is too wide for many to hold comfortably. Tall and skinny, like me, and the S8/S8+ are better. For media consumption, games, etc.. I think the iPad mini has it right, you want the width there. So if the phones get taller and not wider, then I see a place for the mini, but I do not think Apple feels the same unfortunately.

 

[Loge]

The tall skinny screen thing on phones is a fad that hopefully will pass before too long.

 

[JPack]

Not sure where they are selling. I travel the world as part of my job and never really see anyone with a plus model anymore. The only person who i did know with one sold it and got a normal 7.

However it appears they've sold some.. new one on me.
"Strategy Analytics notes that global smartphone shipments reached 353.3 million units in the first quarter of 2017. Of that 353.3 million, 21.5 million were the iPhone 7, with 17.4 million the iPhone 7 Plus".

You probably haven't traveled the nation with the largest smartphone market in the world. The people that buy smaller phones tend to be customers that can't afford the larger phones.

The flagship phones from the top 3 manufacturers: Apple, Huawei, and Samsung are all 5.5" or larger. It tells you quite clearly where the market is at.

 

[AFEPPL]

Rubbish, cost has nothing to do with it. You can't put the larger device into your jeans pocket comfortably. I have travel to China and HK extensively, still not seen many large screen devices and the ones i did see where all Samsung.

 

[JPack]

Rubbish, cost has nothing to do with it. You can't put the larger device into your jeans pocket comfortably. I have travel to China and HK extensively, still not seen many large screen devices and the ones i did see where all Samsung.

Yet people still do as evidenced by the number of bent iPhone 6 Plus units.

Honestly, it doesn't sound like you've traveled to China and HK. You see them everyday on the Shenzhen Metro, Shanghai Metro, and MTR. The Plus phones are extremely popular. Even the smugglers carrying them from HK to Shenzhen are all smuggling Plus phones.

 

[007p]

Rubbish, cost has nothing to do with it. You can't put the larger device into your jeans pocket comfortably. I have travel to China and HK extensively, still not seen many large screen devices and the ones i did see where all Samsung.

I agree I don't see the plus nearly as much as the standard. But then I think that has less to do with the screen size and more to do with the overal size of the device. I'm more than happy to get the 8/x/edition this month to replace my 4.7" screen as the body will be relatively the same.

That really will be my maximum body size for a phone though - anything else is just too big to carry around, and from what I see a lot of people think the same...though supposedly it's selling somewhere in the world.

Regardless, I will never see how a $1000 phone with a contract is a replacement for $500 non contract iOS device. Especially when the screen size is a third smaller, different aspect ratio and uses a completely different view layout as a result. The rumoured 6.5" plus next year if it uses iPad layouts I might start to believe....

I'm not saying the mini won't be discontinued, but I won't accept there's a replacement for it just yet.

 

[AFEPPL]

Yet people still do as evidenced by the number of bent iPhone 6 Plus units.

Honestly, it doesn't sound like you've traveled to China and HK. You see them everyday on the Shenzhen Metro, Shanghai Metro, and MTR. The Plus phones are extremely popular. Even the smugglers carrying them from HK to Shenzhen are all smuggling Plus phones.

Shenzhen, Guangzhou and HongKong...

 

[subjonas]

I know this thread was started months ago, but I just think smaller tablets are becoming a harder sell for a lot of people. I think Apple recognizes this, especially seeing how popular the larger iPhone has become. When I went plus with my iPhone I virtually never used my iPad mini anymore. Things that I would always pick up the iPad for went back to my phone. I know 5.5 to 7.9 is significant, but for a lot of things it just wasn't significant enough to pick up the mini. I wanted an iPad for textbooks, so I got the iPad Air 2. I've found having it that some of that same stuff that shifted from the mini to the plus iPhone went back to the 9.7 inch iPad.

I'm not saying they won't ever update the mini, but I don't think it will get much focus from them if they do.

I think your use case / reaction to ever larger screens on iPhone is about average/most common amongst users. Given the rumors that in 2018 will see a >6” screen on an iPhone, Apple plans probably do not forecast for an upgraded mini iPad.

On the other hand, there are use cases for the iPad mini that are outside of this “normal” use:
- kids without phones
- iPhone users that prefer the 4” screens

One has to assume that Apple thinks the 2017 iPad should be the ideal path for these other users.

I'm going to go out on a limb and make a series of conclusions based almost entirely on my own assumptions and logic (as faulty as those may be--I'll let you be the judge):

I think there is significant demand for a comfortable device purely for casual consumption (no real desire for productivity). Obviously more so if that device can be combined with another device like a phone or a larger tablet, but even as a standalone dedicated device, I think the demand is there (as long as the price is also there of course).

That purely casual consumption device of choice seems to range from the 5.5" iPhone to the 9.7" iPad for most people.

If 5.5 and 9.7 are the lower and higher ends of the bell curve, then the ideal size should actually be right in the middle, ie. the size of the mini.

So for purely casual consumption--a significant mainstream demand--among Apple devices, all things being equal, the mini is the most ideal.

So then let's say, ok, a lot of people have the iPhone Plus, and though it's not the ideal size, most of them don't want the mini because they already have the 5.5" and it's within the range.

But we need to keep in mind that while the plus user base has grown tremendously over the last several years, the majority of iPhone users still have one of the smaller 4.7" or 4" models.

That means that a significant portion of the majority of iPhone users want a purely casual consumption device, for which iPad mini is the best choice.

Therefore, it seems reasonable to believe there is significant demand for the mini.

So if it's not lack of demand keeping Apple from updating the mini, what is? I think it has almost entirely to do with lack of profit. It appears that because it has to be priced so low, each mini sale doesn't generate enough profit to be worth it to Apple, despite demand. Apple already has its obligatory low entry iPad. They don't need another cheap device detracting further from their more profitable iOS devices. The mini occupies an awkward space that's inconvenient and possibly detrimental for Apple to keep filling. And I think that's the real reason it's not updated. The death is not so natural. Demand is there.

(I've heard more good arguments made on either side. But I'm choosing to stop here because those arguments seem to go down an endless path of counter-arguments.)

 

[chasonstone]

I'm going to go out on a limb and make a series of conclusions based almost entirely on my own assumptions and logic (as faulty as those may be--I'll let you be the judge):

I think there is significant demand for a comfortable device purely for casual consumption (no real desire for productivity). Obviously more so if that device can be combined with another device like a phone or a larger tablet, but even as a standalone dedicated device, I think the demand is there (as long as the price is also there of course).

That purely casual consumption device of choice seems to range from the 5.5" iPhone to the 9.7" iPad for most people.

If 5.5 and 9.7 are the lower and higher ends of the bell curve, then the ideal size should actually be right in the middle, ie. the size of the mini.

So for purely casual consumption--a significant mainstream demand--among Apple devices, all things being equal, the mini is the most ideal.

So then let's say, ok, a lot of people have the iPhone Plus, and though it's not the ideal size, most of them don't want the mini because they already have the 5.5" and it's within the range.

But we need to keep in mind that while the plus user base has grown tremendously over the last several years, the majority of iPhone users still have one of the smaller 4.7" or 4" models.

That means that a significant portion of the majority of iPhone users want a purely casual consumption device, for which iPad mini is the best choice.

Therefore, it seems reasonable to believe there is significant demand for the mini.

So if it's not lack of demand keeping Apple from updating the mini, what is? I think it has almost entirely to do with lack of profit. It appears that because it has to be priced so low, each mini sale doesn't generate enough profit to be worth it to Apple, despite demand. Apple already has its obligatory low entry iPad. They don't need another cheap device detracting further from their more profitable iOS devices. The mini occupies an awkward space that's inconvenient and possibly detrimental for Apple to keep filling. And I think that's the real reason it's not updated. The death is not so natural. Demand is there.

(I've heard more good arguments made on either side. But I'm choosing to stop here because those arguments seem to go down an endless path of counter-arguments.)

I don't think you're wrong in thinking the demand might be there, my views are mainly anecdotal. Spending time owning a 7.9 with a 5.5 size phone and then a 9.7 with a 5.5 size phone proved to show me the mini doesn't really make much sense to me (and I would assume others).

I don't know that it even really has all too much to do with screen size. I think a good amount of people's thought process has probably been something like "I want an iPad" -> "Oh the Mini is cheapest" -> "Buys mini because it's cheapest" but with the new iPad being $329 maybe apple is testing that. Right now the entry iPad is $329 but the mini (with more storage) is $399. If the sells on the mini stay at a certain threshold maybe they'd see that the physical size does play more of a factor. I feel like they may think they've provided us with the affordability everyone seeks.

 

[007p]

If demand really was there, kill it, strip what is causing the loss in profit like the laminated screen etc. Drop the name, and implement iPad (7.9" & 9.7") and iPad Pro (10.5" & 12.9"). That makes the most sense to me and keeps the iPad with two models + two sizes each but I doubt it will happen, certainly not this month. Don't have to worry too much about the pencil as it seems Apple wants to bring support for it to non pro devices sooner rather than later based on the latest rumours.

 

[psac]

Nothing new this year for sure, but like many others here, I would buy an upgraded mini 5 if they put one out next year for sure. The usability of the thing is just perfect for me. I had a 2, and recently traded in for the new sized 4. I use it for work, browsing, it's become my sole gaming machine, etc. It would be a very sad day if I had to eventually get rid of it without a similar-sized replacement.

 

[007p]

Nothing new this year for sure, but like many others here, I would buy an upgraded mini 5 if they put one out next year for sure. The usability of the thing is just perfect for me. I had a 2, and recently traded in for the new sized 4. I use it for work, browsing, it's become my sole gaming machine, etc. It would be a very sad day if I had to eventually get rid of it without a similar-sized replacement.

I agree with you, but until Tuesday happens, I still feel there's a very small possibility that if Apple wanted to they could release an A10 mini. Keep same design, drop the numbering and discontinue the mini 4 - explains lack of rumours and still keeps the 'no mini 5 / 4 discontinued' rumours back in March/June.

It's a long stretch and I think next year is the best bet - unless they do actually remove the mini 4 with no replacement on Tuesday, in which I would say it was gone.

 

[subjonas]

I don't think you're wrong in thinking the demand might be there, my views are mainly anecdotal. Spending time owning a 7.9 with a 5.5 size phone and then a 9.7 with a 5.5 size phone proved to show me the mini doesn't really make much sense to me (and I would assume others).

I don't know that it even really has all too much to do with screen size. I think a good amount of people's thought process has probably been something like "I want an iPad" -> "Oh the Mini is cheapest" -> "Buys mini because it's cheapest" but with the new iPad being $329 maybe apple is testing that. Right now the entry iPad is $329 but the mini (with more storage) is $399. If the sells on the mini stay at a certain threshold maybe they'd see that the physical size does play more of a factor. I feel like they may think they've provided us with the affordability everyone seeks.

We don't disagree. I agree a large portion of Plus owners probably feel that way. My argument was just that Plus owners aren't the majority of all iPhone owners, so significant demand for a mini likely still remains. It hasn't dwindled out as many try to paint.

Yes, price surely has to be a big factor. There are a myriad of other factors, such as the individual's wider computing needs, their preferences, trends and advertising. The reason I left those out was I didn't know how to even estimate the degree of their influence. Which is why when I concluded that the mini was ideal, I added the caveat "all things being equal". But of course all things aren't equal. Price is a huge factor. And maybe you're right, Apple may be conducting this experiment to see how much of the mini demand is about size and how much is about price because even they're not sure.

 

[rkuo]

We don't disagree. I agree a large portion of Plus owners probably feel that way. My argument was just that Plus owners aren't the majority of all iPhone owners, so significant demand for a mini likely still remains. It hasn't dwindled out as many try to paint.

Yes, price surely has to be a big factor. There are a myriad of other factors, such as the individual's wider computing needs, their preferences, trends and advertising. The reason I left those out was I didn't know how to even estimate the degree of their influence. Which is why when I concluded that the mini was ideal, I added the caveat "all things being equal". But of course all things aren't equal. Price is a huge factor. And maybe you're right, Apple may be conducting this experiment to see how much of the mini demand is about size and how much is about price because even they're not sure.

For me, the 9.7 is the ugly in between form factor. Not the 7.9/Mini.

One device has to fit in my pocket. I've determined the current iPhone 4.7 meets those needs. The Plus is OK but not ideal for me ... I constantly was aware of it in my pocket and the screen size is underutilized in many applications, including Safari.

Then there's the question of a tablet sized device. The 7.9 is powerful enough and more portable than the 9.7 or 10.5. But it displays web pages in a full form factor (all the reading real estate of an iPad). And it actually fits in my jacket pocket and has full LTE support! This is my ideal all rounder device.

The 9.7/10.5 are certainly nice iPad's, but now they have to be carried in a bag, so they are competing with a laptop if I'm going to be carrying my backpack. For pure at-home use in tablet form, I don't get much more out of the traditional iPad form factor than I do the Mini. The normal sized iPad is better at multitasking due to some extra real estate, but it's still a pretty compromised experience, with many apps defaulting to a mobile layout.

The 12.9 is something I like to use at home as it's just more ergonomically comfortable to use lying in bed or sitting on the couch. Contorting my wrist to reach the trackpad at the bottom of the laptop while it's on my lap is probably going to cause some RSI, so I find myself reaching for the iPad more. Frankly, I like the 12.9 more than I thought I would. The multitasking experience is significantly better just due to the extra screen real estate. Most apps will go to a full iPad layout in split view mode on the 12.9. I always use this with the keyboard unfolded.

 

[JPack]

Tablets are being used most often at home for relaxation.

That's the conclusion drawn from the research data referenced in this Adweek article from 2015. They are used outside of the home less than 15% of the time. Given the "stay at home" role, the portability aspect of an iPad mini has little value. A few posters have emphasized the "pocketability" benefits of iPad mini, but in reality few people do that.

Owners of 4.7" nor 5.5" iPhones don't have the desire to purchase an iPad mini. The 7.9" display is not significantly larger than their phone nor does it perform well as a shared family entertainment device.

Consumers want a tablet for the coffee table, in the kitchen, or on the nightstand.

The 9.7" iPad (2017) fits this demand. The design elements tell you loud and clear Apple agrees. Consumers don't mind weight or thicker chassis because it's being carried from room to room. The non-laminated display is viewed indoors under soft lighting. The $329 price makes it suitable as a companion entertainment device.

 

[rkuo]

Tablets are being used most often at home for relaxation.

That's the conclusion drawn from the research data referenced in this Adweek article from 2015. They are used outside of the home less than 15% of the time. Given the "stay at home" role, the portability aspect of an iPad mini has little value. A few posters have emphasized the "pocketability" benefits of iPad mini, but in reality few people do that.

Owners of 4.7" nor 5.5" iPhones don't have the desire to purchase an iPad mini. The 7.9" display is not significantly larger than their phone nor does it perform well as a shared family entertainment device.

Consumers want a tablet for the coffee table, in the kitchen, or on the nightstand.

The 9.7" iPad (2017) fits this demand. The design elements tell you loud and clear Apple agrees. Consumers don't mind weight or thicker chassis because it's being carried from room to room. The non-laminated display is viewed indoors under soft lighting. The $329 price makes it suitable as a companion entertainment device.

I agree that the 9.7" is a very good at home form factor for someone that doesn't own a lot of devices and just wants one tablet. My wife uses one and it's the perfect form factor for her since the screen is a good size and yet she can lie on her side in bed and still use it comfortably.

I completely disagree that the 5.5 plus can even compare to the 7.9 iPad Mini. They are not even remotely the same. I hear people bring this up over and over again ... and let's be clear, those people are just theorycrafting and running their mouths.

Anyone who claims the above is completely wrong and has clearly not tried to use the two for any length of time. The amount of extra screen real estate on the iPad Mini is tremendous. 12.9 sq in vs 29.6 sq in. That is 135% more screen space. Double the amount of screen on an iPhone Plus and then add a significant dollop on top of that.

The iPad Mini to iPad 9.7, by contrast, is 29.6 vs 45.16 sq in. That's just a 52% increase in screen area, which is why the iPad Mini still competes favorably with the iPad 9.7 as a tablet.

 

[JPack]

I completely disagree that the 5.5 plus can even compare to the 7.9 iPad Mini. They are not even remotely the same. I hear people bring this up over and over again ... and let's be clear, those people are just theorycrafting and running their mouths.

Anyone who claims the above is completely wrong and has clearly not tried to use the two for any length of time. The amount of extra screen real estate on the iPad Mini is tremendous. 29.6 sq in vs 12.9 sq in. That is 135% more screen space. Double the amount of screen on an iPhone Plus and then add a significant dollop on top of that.

The iPad Mini to iPad 9.7, by contrast, is 29.6 vs 45.16 sq in. That's just a 52% increase in screen area, which is why the iPad Mini still competes favorably with the iPad 9.7 as a tablet.

The discussion about display size is interesting, but I think ultimately, consumer preference prevails.

For tablet users operating their device at home, I agree 5.5" vs 7.9" represents an appreciable difference in user experience. However, weight is not a concern at home. Why choose mini when 9.7" is available?

For road-mobile users, a 7.9" tablet is nice to have. But it also represents a significant burden to carry a phone and a tablet. When faced with such a decision, the perceived benefits of a 7.9" tablet decrease significantly.

The research data shows an overwhelming number of tablet users are operating their devices at home. The 9.7" tablet becomes the clear winner. On the road, the vast majority of users prefer to carry one device - and that is a phablet. The iPad mini fits the needs of an extremely niche market - it's neither a home device, work device, nor a phone. It's for those who don't mind carrying two devices on the road: one smartphone and one tablet dedicated to media consumption. You have to ask yourself, how many people are willing to do that? It's the equivalent of carrying a Nintendo Switch. The Switch can run games a phone cannot. An iPad mini runs the same apps as an iPhone, just a little bit better.

 

[ejin222]

I agree with you, but until Tuesday happens, I still feel there's a very small possibility that if Apple wanted to they could release an A10 mini. Keep same design, drop the numbering and discontinue the mini 4 - explains lack of rumours and still keeps the 'no mini 5 / 4 discontinued' rumours back in March/June.

It's a long stretch and I think next year is the best bet - unless they do actually remove the mini 4 with no replacement on Tuesday, in which I would say it was gone.

I'm hoping for this as well. I don't mind the same chassis as long as the processor is upgraded. I'm looking to upgrade my Mini 2 to a 5 if it comes out.

I have a 7 Plus and a 12.9 Pro. My Mini 2 is my favorite device.