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Flabasha

macrumors 6502
Dec 21, 2011
357
441
As a owner of the first and 3rd gen 12.9 I'd say the 3rd gen offers much more.
1. USB C (the biggest deal for me)
2. 100gr lighter and more compact (another big deal)
3. pencil 2
4. promotion
5. compatibility with the magic keyboard
6. BT 5.0 (big deal for me as I can use airpods anywhere in the house, with no issue with range)
7. faster in some demanding web pages (like gmail, youtube etc.) Most people don't realize since they just use the apps. The first gen struggles sometimes
8. Neural engine, allows new features likes live text, spatial audio etc. (only from A12 and above)

I don't like faceid either and have disabled it, but many do...
For me…
1. I prefer lightning to USB-C. If Apple’s not going to have apps that use the transfer speed (FCPX, etc.), I’d rather have the ease of the iPhone connector.
2. More compact is better, agreed
3. Pencil 1 was superior for me, with wired charging (can’t use a grip on Pencil 2 and charge it reliably)
4. Old iPad Pros also have ProMotion
5. I don’t use Magic Keyboard (again, I would if powerful apps existed that would leverage a keyboard). If you do use it, then, yeah, you’d want the newer one
6. BT5 is nice, but my iPhone 11 Pro has it, and it still drops signal when I walk a room away.
7. Never seen my old 12.9 choke on a webpage, personally
8. Having a 2020, I’ve found I don’t use those things. Hell, the other day I tried to find a practical application for my fancy LiDar sensor, and didn’t really find much to do with it. ?

Just my experience, though.

EDIT: Apple is apparently presenting at NAB again, the first time since the FCPX rollout years ago. So maybe they’ll roll out Pro video apps that can actually leverage those processors. I think they’ll have to, or no one’s going to keep shelling out for “Pro” iPads…
 
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Flabasha

macrumors 6502
Dec 21, 2011
357
441
For me…
1. I prefer lightning to USB-C. If Apple’s not going to have apps that use the transfer speed (FCPX, etc.), I’d rather have the ease of the iPhone connector.
2. More compact is better, agreed
3. Pencil 1 was superior for me, with wired charging (can’t use a grip on Pencil 2 and charge it reliably)
4. Old iPad Pros also have ProMotion
5. I don’t use Magic Keyboard (again, I would if powerful apps existed that would leverage a keyboard). If you do use it, then, yeah, you’d want the newer one
6. BT5 is nice, but my iPhone 11 Pro
has it, and it still drops signal when I walk a room away.
7. Never seen my old 12.9 choke on a webpage, personally
8. Having a 2020, I’ve found I don’t use those things. Hell, the other day I tried to find a practical application for my fancy LiDar sensor, and didn’t really find much to do with it.

Just my experience, though.
Only 2017 iPad Pros and newer, though. The 1st gen Pros don't have it.
True, I actually have the first body model, but second-gen, so I do have ProMotion on it.
 

sparksd

macrumors G4
Jun 7, 2015
10,023
34,493
Seattle WA
For me…
1. I prefer lightning to USB-C. If Apple’s not going to have apps that use the transfer speed (FCPX, etc.), I’d rather have the ease of the iPhone connector.
2. More compact is better, agreed
3. Pencil 1 was superior for me, with wired charging (can’t use a grip on Pencil 2 and charge it reliably)
4. Old iPad Pros also have ProMotion
5. I don’t use Magic Keyboard (again, I would if powerful apps existed that would leverage a keyboard). If you do use it, then, yeah, you’d want the newer one
6. BT5 is nice, but my iPhone 11 Pro has it, and it still drops signal when I walk a room away.
7. Never seen my old 12.9 choke on a webpage, personally
8. Having a 2020, I’ve found I don’t use those things. Hell, the other day I tried to find a practical application for my fancy LiDar sensor, and didn’t really find much to do with it. ?

Just my experience, though.

EDIT: Apple is apparently presenting at NAB again, the first time since the FCPX rollout years ago. So maybe they’ll roll out Pro video apps that can actually leverage those processors. I think they’ll have to, or no one’s going to keep shelling out for “Pro” iPads…

People buy Pro iPads for reasons beyond just video apps so "no one’s going to keep shelling out for “Pro” iPads" simply doesn't hold water.
 

rui no onna

Contributor
Oct 25, 2013
14,921
13,274
People buy Pro iPads for reasons beyond just video apps so "no one’s going to keep shelling out for “Pro” iPads" simply doesn't hold water.

Yep. Honestly, I don't care one bit about photo or video editing apps. Primary reason I buy Pros is because Apple doesn't offer higher storage capacities on lower end models. Also, the 12.9" display is so much nicer for comics.

Granted, I'll probably be keeping the 2021 Pro for a long time. Now that I have 1TB and with M1+16GB RAM offering a very comfortable performance headroom, I don't see the need to upgrade for a long while.
 

Jedimindtrick

macrumors 6502
Jun 28, 2017
270
445
I’ve owned almost every iteration of the iPad Pro since it’s inception, including the current M1 model with 16gb ram. Obviously with that much invested, I’m a fan of the iPad Pro line.

I recently bought the M1 MacBook Pro (which is flat out the best Apple laptop I’ve ever owned, but that’s a different subject.) What I have since realized is how unbelievably well MacOS runs on the M1 chip. It’s blazing fast, and extremely energy efficient.

I now want, more than ever, the ability to dual boot between iPadOS and MacOS on the iPad Pro. The hardware seems more than capable of handling it. And IMO dual booting seems like a very “Pro” thing to do. The casual user would never accidentally install MacOS on a partition of the drive and then know how to boot into it, so I don’t think it would necessarily harm the simplistic experience the casual user has with the iPad Pro (which Apple seems so committed to protecting.)

At some point would I like there to be one OS that both iPads and Mac users can use? Not really, I don’t hate iPadOS on my iPad mini. I like it quite a bit, actually. But on my 12.9” $1,500 iPad Pro? Yea, give me a little more leash, Apple.
 

sparksd

macrumors G4
Jun 7, 2015
10,023
34,493
Seattle WA
Yep. Honestly, I don't care one bit about photo or video editing apps. Primary reason I buy Pros is because Apple doesn't offer higher storage capacities on lower end models. Also, the 12.9" display is so much nicer for comics.

Granted, I'll probably be keeping the 2021 Pro for a long time. Now that I have 1TB and with M1+16GB RAM offering a very comfortable performance headroom, I don't see the need to upgrade for a long while.

Yes, the Pro's are attractive for a lot of different use cases and while they may not be so for some people, they will always have a customer base.
 

Flabasha

macrumors 6502
Dec 21, 2011
357
441
Yes, the Pro's are attractive for a lot of different use cases and while they may not be so for some people, they will always have a customer base.
I agree, the Pros are awesome iPads. But you just need to buy it once (even a used one), and you’re all good for the forseeable future.
 

aevan

macrumors 601
Feb 5, 2015
4,542
7,240
Serbia
Actually I have to disagree. Wacom actually does have the best options for drawing hands down. Most artists agree on that. nTrig is in third place at this time, but it is still quite useable. In addition Procreate is a nice mobile app, but it does not stand up to what can be obtained on the desktop. It does not come close to Corel Painter, Full Photoshop, and Rebelle.

First, we were comparing Galaxy vs iPads, so I’m not sure why you’re bringing up Wacom’s products for the desktop. I said “nothing beats Apple Pencil and Procreate” when compared with other tablets. But even against the desktop, both the Pencil and Procreate stand surprisingly well.

I’ve been working as both art director and producer in the gaming industry for more than a decade, worked with tons art directors and artists, “most artists“ do not agree that Wacom offers a better drawing experience (they do offer more options, though). It’s a personal preference, but mostly it comes down to software - like, there’s no Zbrush or Blender on iPad, for example. 3D, complex workflows - you need a desktop for all of that, for sure. With that said, I see more and more professional artists - comic book artists, illustrators and concept artists switch to iPad and the Apple Pencil because they prefer it. Wacom does have more options, especially with larger canvases, but talking about the Pencil vs Pro Pen 2, Pencil is more natural feeling and a lot of artists agree.

Calling Procreate ”a nice mobile app” seems condescending, considering its capabilities, but if you want a more versatile app, there is Clip Studio as well. Both are comparable (if not superior) to Photoshop for illustration and drawing, as for Corel Painter and Rebelle, as great as they are, these are almost becoming niche programs at this point. Both of these are mostly used by people trying to replicate the traditional artistic tools, which is - in my opinion - becoming less trendy in the art community. Either way, nothing prevents these apps from appearing on the iPad as well, as CSP showed, these are not tied to the desktop in terms of design (and certainly not performance) so I wouldn’t be surprised if we see them on iPads at some point in the future.

Either way, the post was about comparing iPads to Galaxy Tabs for art. Also, no one really draws with the N-trig :) Microsoft has a chance to make something special for artists with its Surface line, but they refuse to do so, sadly.
 
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sparksd

macrumors G4
Jun 7, 2015
10,023
34,493
Seattle WA
I agree, the Pros are awesome iPads. But you just need to buy it once (even a used one), and you’re all good for the forseeable future.

Yeah, the 2021 M1 Pro should be good for me for quite sometime and I can see myself not updating for a longer time than I have previously - I can't think of any change or new feature that would compel me to upgrade, given the rising cost of the device.
 

Ludatyk

macrumors 603
May 27, 2012
5,974
5,142
Texas
Yeah, the 2021 M1 Pro should be good for me for quite sometime and I can see myself not updating for a longer time than I have previously - I can't think of any change or new feature that would compel me to upgrade, given the rising cost of the device.
I think a slight redesign coming for the next iPP, but I don't see any changes to drive M1 iPP users to upgrade. Maybe moving the front camera... I know that seems minor, but its one of those highly requested change iPad users want.

But could that be a reason to upgrade, I doubt it.
 

MuckrakerJG

macrumors member
Feb 1, 2014
80
136
You're not wrong that Windows 11 does look good for tablets and I do wish along with the rest of you that Apple would let the iPad do more.

But people are extremely tribal these days, and I don't mean just politics. There was an article in the last couple weeks I think talking about brand loyalty and how Apple users tend to stick with Apple, Android users stick with Android and so on. I think at this point, most people are loyal to the brand they've been using.

Microsoft may very well release something that is more functional or versatile than the iPad in some ways. In fact, you could argue the Surface is already more capable in some ways on 10. But that doesn't mean lots of people are going to switch.

I don't see a mass exodus of Apple users happening simply because most longtime Apple fans are never going to use a Windows-based product at this point, no matter how good Microsoft makes it.
 
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rui no onna

Contributor
Oct 25, 2013
14,921
13,274
But people are extremely tribal these days, and I don't mean just politics. There was an article in the last couple weeks I think talking about brand loyalty and how Apple users tend to stick with Apple, Android users stick with Android and so on. I think at this point, most people are loyal to the brand they've been using.

Microsoft may very well release something that is more functional or versatile than the iPad in some ways. In fact, you could argue the Surface is already more capable in some ways on 10. But that doesn't mean lots of people are going to switch.

I don't see a mass exodus of Apple users happening simply because most longtime Apple fans are never going to use a Windows-based product at this point, no matter how good Microsoft makes it.

Nah, most people are just lazy. Switching involves a learning curve and I expect most users are happier to go with what's familiar.

My mom happily uses an iPhone and iPad but when I tried swapping the Windows PC for a Mac, it was non-stop complaints (the gist of it being "It doesn't work like Windows").
 

GDF

macrumors 68000
Jun 7, 2010
1,514
1,617
You're not wrong that Windows 11 does look good for tablets and I do wish along with the rest of you that Apple would let the iPad do more.

But people are extremely tribal these days, and I don't mean just politics. There was an article in the last couple weeks I think talking about brand loyalty and how Apple users tend to stick with Apple, Android users stick with Android and so on. I think at this point, most people are loyal to the brand they've been using.

Microsoft may very well release something that is more functional or versatile than the iPad in some ways. In fact, you could argue the Surface is already more capable in some ways on 10. But that doesn't mean lots of people are going to switch.

I don't see a mass exodus of Apple users happening simply because most longtime Apple fans are never going to use a Windows-based product at this point, no matter how good Microsoft makes it.

I just compared the Surface Pro X SQ2 512mb/16gb ram the last two weeks and it is still not even close to the 2021 iPad 12.9 M1. I love the form of the SPX, the kickstand and the fast charging and also seems lighter weight, even though they are both close.

Besides those things everything else falls way short. Win 11 is still very clumsy and slow compared to the iPad iOS 15 experience. The screen is not as good as the iPad nor as bright, vivid or colorful. The iPad is way faster, allows endless apps, smooth, etc. It just plain works, where as the SPX tries to work, but when do the same things side by side is not even close.

I really want to like the SPX, but it has a ways to go and doubt if it will ever each iPad level. Also prefer the Magic Keyboard over the SPX keyboard. Just too flimsy and odd fit when using on your lap. I use my iPad 98 percent of the time for work and personal.
 

pdoherty

macrumors 65816
Dec 30, 2014
1,491
1,736
In my opinion, it was a mistake to put the M1 in the iPad Pro. We did not get Logic Pro or Final Cut Pro, and iPadOS still makes the M1 pointless. The 2018 iPad Pro was WAY overpowered for the iPad OS. We have no indication that things are going to change, and if they are when they will change. It is entirely pointless for the M1 to be in the iPad Pro even if things change 3 years from now as we will have a newer M* processor that will be far better.

How is a tablet in any way ‘overpowered’? That’s an impossibility. The only thing that would qualify as a tablet being overpowered is if they put so much electricity-sucking gear in it that the battery life was cut in half or something. Absent that, any/all power they can obtain while keeping battery life high is welcome and improves all experiences using it.
 

pdoherty

macrumors 65816
Dec 30, 2014
1,491
1,736
Possibly, but as someone who is loving his first Windows machine, which is a tablet computer, I find the benefits may be too compelling for Apple to miss entirely. Simply put, I love having the ability to write and draw on my actual computer.

Check this out. 50-inch Microsoft Surface Hub with touch interface.

 

Ethosik

Contributor
Oct 21, 2009
8,144
7,120
How is a tablet in any way ‘overpowered’? That’s an impossibility. The only thing that would qualify as a tablet being overpowered is if they put so much electricity-sucking gear in it that the battery life was cut in half or something. Absent that, any/all power they can obtain while keeping battery life high is welcome and improves all experiences using it.
Uhh by having the M1 in there while iPadOS holds it back? The M1 competes with an i9-9900k, as my M1 Mac mini smokes my $4,600 i9 iMac.

How is it an impossibility? 16 GB RAM is overkill for the iPad.
 

iPadified

macrumors 68020
Apr 25, 2017
2,014
2,257
Uhh by having the M1 in there while iPadOS holds it back? The M1 competes with an i9-9900k, as my M1 Mac mini smokes my $4,600 i9 iMac.

How is it an impossibility? 16 GB RAM is overkill for the iPad.
Of course a computer device cannot have too much performance. Last time I experienced that was with 80386 and DOS where things happened so quickly on the screen so it was difficult to work from the prompt. I am still waiting for that experience with any GUI based device. That was the time when no one needed more than 640 kb RAM…
 

Digitalguy

macrumors 601
Apr 15, 2019
4,671
4,508
Of course a computer device cannot have too much performance. Last time I experienced that was with 80386 and DOS where things happened so quickly on the screen so it was difficult to work from the prompt. I am still waiting for that experience with any GUI based device. That was the time when no one needed more than 640 kb RAM…
Same when I moved from 286 to 486, DOS became hardly usable (fortunately Windows had became a thing at the time, even if it wasn't yet the main OS).
Anyway agreed, the speed of the iPad pro is just what is was supposed to be, M1 is just A14X put in a Mac and then put back where it belonged to... From this transition to the Mac however it inherited 16GB RAM instead of just 8GB, which contrary to what some say has benefits even today...so it's welcome
The only criticism that can be made is Apple building up too much expectation with their videos and marketing of the power of the Mac into the iPad, support of the pro display etc. because people thought of MacOS features, including full external display support, not just the M1, which again, was an iPad chip to begin with anyway....
 

iPadified

macrumors 68020
Apr 25, 2017
2,014
2,257
The only criticism that can be made is Apple building up too much expectation with their videos and marketing of the power of the Mac into the iPad, support of the pro display etc. because people thought of MacOS features, including full external display support, not just the M1, which again, was an iPad chip to begin with anyway....
That is the key to all this debating.
 
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Ethosik

Contributor
Oct 21, 2009
8,144
7,120
Of course a computer device cannot have too much performance. Last time I experienced that was with 80386 and DOS where things happened so quickly on the screen so it was difficult to work from the prompt. I am still waiting for that experience with any GUI based device. That was the time when no one needed more than 640 kb RAM…

That’s……not true. Why get an i9 or Threadripper system if you just use Microsoft Word? iPadOS CANNOT utilize the hardware provided, so it’s just useless and we are paying for more that can’t be used - if I want 2TB of storage I HAVE TO GET 16GB of RAM.
 

UBS28

macrumors 68030
Oct 2, 2012
2,893
2,340
That’s……not true. Why get an i9 or Threadripper system if you just use Microsoft Word? iPadOS CANNOT utilize the hardware provided, so it’s just useless and we are paying for more that can’t be used - if I want 2TB of storage I HAVE TO GET 16GB of RAM.

Yes it can. I was trying to make music on the iPad Pro and I was using this new syntheziser. It started crapping out on the maximum voices in unison mode.

Not sure if it was due to a bug, but something was not playing right when using the maximum voices that were available.
 

sparksd

macrumors G4
Jun 7, 2015
10,023
34,493
Seattle WA
That’s……not true. Why get an i9 or Threadripper system if you just use Microsoft Word? iPadOS CANNOT utilize the hardware provided, so it’s just useless and we are paying for more that can’t be used - if I want 2TB of storage I HAVE TO GET 16GB of RAM.

That's just flat out wrong on utilization. I see clear performance improvements on my 2021 Pro over my 2018 Pro.
 
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