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Radon87000

macrumors 604
Nov 29, 2013
7,777
6,255
Yeah yeah the point was made and twisted around to suit.
[doublepost=1506677295][/doublepost]

I think you just like to argue for the sake of it, i mean you don't even own a Note 8 and you argue as if you do, you own a 7 plus and cant even agree on anything with it. Please.
I am actually on the fence as regards the Note 8 or the iPhone X. I will put it to you straight. I find the Note 8 a superior phone to the iPhone X overall. It's got a bigger screen,more storage, spen and also comes with infinite customastion which I love. But I also own an Apple Watch and an iPad and the iPhone X is the only phone which will allow seamless transfer of files and phone calls and messages between devices. If I get the Note 8 I gain by getting all my messages and notifications with my desktop running Windows but lose the ability to get them on my iPad and Watch so I am just trading one device for another. I also don't really like Tizen all that much and Google has given up on Android Wear so I lose a smart watch.

I am waiting for the 27th and if He X is out of stock I will get the Note 8 and keep my 7 Plus as my foothold with the Apple ecosystem. I will trade in the 7 Plus if I get the X because it's significantly more expensive than the Note when I consider 257gb storage,wireless charging, and a case.

TLDR- The Note 8 is a better phone but the iPhone X becomes a better option because of the devices I own.


By the way I was happy with iPhone 7 Plus on iOS 10 but I don't really think it's been a fast and reliable device on iOS 11 as it was on iOS 10.
 

Zipster3

Suspended
Sep 1, 2017
139
52
I am actually on the fence as regards the Note 8 or the iPhone X. I will put it to you straight. I find the Note 8 a superior phone to the iPhone X overall. It's got a bigger screen,more storage, spen and also comes with infinite customastion which I love. But I also own an Apple Watch and an iPad and the iPhone X is the only phone which will allow seamless transfer of files and phone calls and messages between devices. If I get the Note 8 I gain by getting all my messages and notifications with my desktop running Windows but lose the ability to get them on my iPad and Watch so I am just trading one device for another. I also don't really like Tizen all that much and Google has given up on Android Wear so I lose a smart watch.

I am waiting for the 27th and if He X is out of stock I will get the Note 8 and keep my 7 Plus as my foothold with the Apple ecosystem.

TLDR- The Note 8 is a better phone but the iPhone X becomes a better option because of the devices I own.


By the way I was happy with iPhone 7 Plus on iOS 10 but I don't really think it's been a fast and reliable device on iOS 11 as it was on iOS 10.

Ok, thanks for explaining.
 

The Game 161

macrumors Nehalem
Dec 15, 2010
30,991
20,172
UK
I am actually on the fence as regards the Note 8 or the iPhone X. I will put it to you straight. I find the Note 8 a superior phone to the iPhone X overall. It's got a bigger screen,more storage, spen and also comes with infinite customastion which I love. But I also own an Apple Watch and an iPad and the iPhone X is the only phone which will allow seamless transfer of files and phone calls and messages between devices. If I get the Note 8 I gain by getting all my messages and notifications with my desktop running Windows but lose the ability to get them on my iPad and Watch so I am just trading one device for another. I also don't really like Tizen all that much and Google has given up on Android Wear so I lose a smart watch.

I am waiting for the 27th and if He X is out of stock I will get the Note 8 and keep my 7 Plus as my foothold with the Apple ecosystem. I will trade in the 7 Plus if I get the X because it's significantly more expensive than the Note when I consider 257gb storage,wireless charging, and a case.

TLDR- The Note 8 is a better phone but the iPhone X becomes a better option because of the devices I own.


By the way I was happy with iPhone 7 Plus on iOS 10 but I don't really think it's been a fast and reliable device on iOS 11 as it was on iOS 10.
Pretty much my line of thinking. I love what the note 8 does and would love to get one but the x works so well with my setup and to be honest the x has all the features i’ve Wanted for years

OLED
Wireless charging
Fast charge
Smaller model with limited bezels

So to leave when they add the features i wanted would be weird. Love my Apple Watch as well and if i got the note 8 i would need to invest in the gear and likely Samsung tablet as i like to have more than one device of the brand which would be costly.
 
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I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
35,158
25,268
Gotta be in it to win it
Even Apple doesn’t have an answer as apart from the iPhone all their recent devices have the jack. The only reason it was removed was to annoy customers into buying the Aiprods.
It’s true I want the AirPods but didn’t get them yet, so fail on apples marketing strategies here.

How is it enough? You are paying a 1000 dollars for a phone with 4K 60 recording which in a couple of videos over a few months and taking photos will end up consuming 20-30 gigs easily. That leaves you with just 30GB space when games like real racing 3 occupy 3-4GB so it’s only a couple of em and your phone is done.

128GB would have been the nice sweet spot
Instead of complaining about lack of memory you’re complaining about too much. Proof Apple can’t please everyone . However it is what it is.
[doublepost=1506680624][/doublepost]
I only need a 200 dollar Android phone to do more than what any iPhone does and the Android OS most likely would run smoothly compared to jerky iOS. Now that's my opinion. So your iPhone is really worth 200.00 in my mind.
In his mind there is a value add to getting an iPhone, something you can’t derive from a spec sheet.
[doublepost=1506682110][/doublepost]
improvements incoming

But we all knew this is what Apple typically does after a major release.
 

Radon87000

macrumors 604
Nov 29, 2013
7,777
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It’s true I want the AirPods but didn’t get them yet, so fail on apples marketing strategies here.
But many I know did so Apple's marketing strategy won.


Instead of complaining about lack of memory you’re complaining about too much. Proof Apple can’t please everyone . However it is what it is.
I am complaining about the lack of optimal storage which was there with iPhone 7. It's either too much or too little. A guy on 128GB will obviously pay more for 256GB Han downgrading back to 64. More profits right there.

In his mind there is a value add to getting an iPhone, something you can’t derive from a spec sheet.
So the iPhone X is a spec sheet?


But we all knew this is what Apple typically does after a major release.
I am on that beta and it showed no improvement in battery life over iOS 11.o.1.
 
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I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
35,158
25,268
Gotta be in it to win it
But many I know did so Apple's marketing strategy won.
And you can prove that every single buyer if the AirPods was only an iPhone 7 and iPhone 8 customer? Apples marketing failed.:rolleyes:

I am complaining about the lack of optimal storage which was there with iPhone 7. It's either too much or too little. A guy on 128GB will obviously pay more for 256GB Han downgrading back to 64. More profits right there.
Only in your opinion, Apple did its homework and this is what they decided to do.

So the iPhone X is a spec sheet?
Well clearly there are specs underlying all the Hardware.

I am on that beta and it showed no improvement in battery life over iOS 11.o.1.
Well that’s you, according to the video there was a massive improvement in battery life.
 

The Game 161

macrumors Nehalem
Dec 15, 2010
30,991
20,172
UK
For me apple getting rid of the headphone jack was the best thing that did last year. It made me go completely wireless and i love my air pods and my beats solo3. I have no reason to ever use wires ever again. They are to me a complete waste of time and annoying to use after using my air pods.
 

Voodoochild346

macrumors regular
Aug 16, 2015
118
130
For me apple getting rid of the headphone jack was the best thing that did last year. It made me go completely wireless and i love my air pods and my beats solo3. I have no reason to ever use wires ever again. They are to me a complete waste of time and annoying to use after using my air pods.
Them removing an option is the best thing they did last year? You do realize they would have Bluetooth regardless right?
 
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I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
35,158
25,268
Gotta be in it to win it
For me apple getting rid of the headphone jack was the best thing that did last year. It made me go completely wireless and i love my air pods and my beats solo3. I have no reason to ever use wires ever again. They are to me a complete waste of time and annoying to use after using my air pods.
To each their own use case when it comes to headphone jack vs no headphone jack, wireless vs wired. The lack of a headphone jack is not a deal breaker as I can still use my EarPods.
[doublepost=1506687718][/doublepost]
Them removing an option is the best thing they did last year? You do realize they would have Bluetooth regardless right?
That’s not what was said and don’t make it an all or nothing issue.
 

jamezr

macrumors P6
Aug 7, 2011
16,077
19,072
US
Apologies for the length of this post—geez I rambled.

TL;DR - I’m wagering TouchID is dead and Apple’s motivation is making more money. :p


I’ll take that bet. ;) Loser buys the beer if the other is ever in their part of the world. :D

IF...and that’s a big IF...If FaceID works as well as Apple claims it will, we won’t see another new phone from Apple with TouchID again. Successful FaceID means Apple doesn’t have to bother trying to get an under-display fingerprint sensor to work. That’s a whole lot of research they don’t have to invest in any longer and a whole bunch of space they don’t have to set aside. They’ve already professed how much more secure it is (less failure rates and chance of another individual accidentally defeating it). Putting TouchID back in their phones is a big backtrack—something Apple just doesn’t do, right or wrong.

I also think FaceID is a better solution across their entire product line. FaceID on the iPad and Macs, which have far more room along their displays that don’t require any sort of notch, make much more sense than trying to use TouchID. Trying to implement TouchID on an iMac or MacPro is much more problematic than just building FaceID right into the iMac display or their upcoming standalone display. You then have a consistent experience across all their products.

And if Apple does pull off the implementation of FaceID, most of the industry will be following suit. It may certainly not be practical from a cost standpoint to have it in lower end/midrange phones but the top end flagships will almost certainly adopt their own form of it. Hell, Samsung already has—they’ll just fine tune it to improve the experience and make is more seamless and secure. You don’t think they’d love to ditch what’s admittedly the biggest flaw of their 2017 flagships? No need to implement an underscreen solution (which appears to be pretty damn hard to do by everyone)—lots of money and research time to allocate somewhere else.

I think Apple sees the ultimate implementation as a seamless solution that appears almost non-existent. You would just pick up your phone and if it’s you, it’ll unlock in the background on the biometric security solution that’s been implemented. No need to put your finger in a specific spot, or hold it in an exact location in front of your face, etc—just pick it up, the phone autheticates in the background and you go about your business. This feels like Apple’s first step in that direction and if it works, it’ll beat ever other implementation and every other OEM will be trying to replicate it.

Like I mentioned at the start...lots of IFs but I think that’s the direction Apple is trying to go. Putting a FP sensor back in doesn’t move things forward and we all know Apple doesn’t look back.
[doublepost=1506648301][/doublepost]After reading through the usual bicker...I’m mean, ‘discussions’ ;), my thoughs on a few things I read.

Apple’s motivation for removal of the headphone jack is almost certainly all financial. They own a company known for producing speakers and headphones, most of which are wireless. Beats/Apple sell 5 different wireless headphones presently. What better way to ‘encourage’ sales of those products than to put them as front and center solutions for their flagship product. What’s been their hottest product for the past year? AirPods. And Apple claiming anything else is purely their ‘marketing speak.’ But you can be damn sure Samsung, Google, Microsoft or any other company would do the same thing IF they could pull it off. None of them have our best interests at heart and thinking they do is just being naive. Apple just has the nerve to do it becuase a good segment of their consumers will listen to them. Proof that they have a pretty good idea on their customer’s sentiments? Look how many iPhone 7/7 Plus they sold. Not having a headphone jack certainly bothers some people...but not most. They just use the earbuds in the box most of the time and after that initial adjustment, couldn’t give a crap any longer. They could also give a **** about audio quality considering the overwelming majority of people are streaming their music from a service like Spotify or Apple Music. The bitrates of those streams aren’t going to sound miraculously better over high end wired headphones.

Pretty much same goes for their storage options across their newest phones. They know that anybody who previously had 128GB of storage isn’t likely to move back down to a lesser amount so now they have to move up and spend $50-100 than they would have. Again, they’re trying to maximize profit and if they didn’t, they’re stockholders would go ******* on them. And again, just about any other company you can think of would do exactly the same thing if in Apple’s position.

Now, in no way should this been seen as me defending Apple—not doing anything of the sort. I’m just stating what to me seems painfully obvious. I personally couldn’t care less about the headphone jack as I haven’t used one on a device of mine in years as I hate being tethered by wires but that’s just me. The storage options—yup, that sucks as I presently have 128GB and can’t see myself coming close to needing 256GB anytime soon. But you know what I can do about it if I’m not happy with Apple’s products? Take my money elsewhere and so could any other Apple customer. Ecosystem lock in is a cop out excuse that in reality doesn’t apply to most people. Most iPhone owners don’t also have Macs and even fewer have an iPad, Mac, and iPhone. Less still have Apple Watches. The Apple TV is in what, last place amongst streaming boxes? Far more people stream their music from a source other than Apple. Most apps people use nowadays are free so having to ‘repurchase’ all their apps will likely cost very little. People keep buying iPhones because they like how they work and how they work with their friends and family, that’s it. It’s only us tech geeks/nerds who obsess over this stuff like this and are foolish enough to think our notions in these matters actually pertain to normal consumers.
I'll take the beer bet ;)

I know you replied to me and my post but then you kinda went off the reservation so to speak Included a lot of things my post did not cover even remotely. It seemed like post meant as a reply to the whole thread

FID (FaceID) did not work so well when it was demonstrated. Craig had to wipe the sweat off of his face to get it to work correctly. I hope it works as advertised and look forward to trying it out for myself.

Like I mentioned at the start...lots of IFs but I think that’s the direction Apple is trying to go. Putting a FP sensor back in doesn’t move things forward and we all know Apple doesn’t look back.

But they do look back at times.....like displays larger than 3.5 or a smaller ipad. They have added many features that they have publicly denounced in the past. Didn't they publicly denounce the MS Surface on to pretty emulate it in the 12.9 IPP? The advertising was almost identical to the MS surface pictures

So apple does look back and change course sometimes.

IF...and that’s a big IF...If FaceID works as well as Apple claims it will, we won’t see another new phone from Apple with TouchID again.

Those are big IFs........
You can’t go all in on a single point of access and expect every case to be accounted for....there are too many variables
Peoples appearance changes....sometimes daily. Sunglasses? Different hairstyles....shaving off beard growth. Sweating while working out....the list goes on and it is a fairly long one.
I can see people having to enter their passcode a lot and having to have FID relearn their face.
There are going to be a record amount of threads in the iphone section about all the problems with FID.....just wait......it is going to happen.

Privacy concerns.... Cops won’t need a warrant to point the phone at your face.

Then there is ease of use....TID (TouchID) is so much easier to use. I have heard you defend TouchID numerous times here on MR. Reversing course? Defending Apple?
I can find the FPS on my iphone while it is in my pocket and have it unlocked while bringing it out of my pocket ot picking it up. I have heard this same thing from you several times in threads here on MR. Glancing at your phone while lying on a flat surface and touching the FPS to unlock it. Will FaceID work as well?

Technology is ever changing and growing...so are ways to hack that technology. The technology Apple is using for FaceID is not new. This form of biometrics has been around for a while. Security firms use it. they use a form of this at my work at the data centers.

In fact government agencies use this as well. They can scan your face and come up with the same matches that FaceID uses. It won't be long before they can scan your face without your knowledge and use that to get into your phone if needed. Cameras are everywhere in today's society you and your face are being scanned continuously. This is done by the good guys and the not so good guys. That data is collected and stored and we all know if the data is out there someone will get to it.....just read the news.

Interesting article on Forbes
I worry about the prospect of good, bad and ugly actors being able to identify a face in a crowd and being able to instantly cross-reference sensitive personal information. Retailers will know you as you step into a store. Pickpockets will also know who to target, and let accomplices know who is not at home. You don’t have to stretch too far to imagine intrusive and unacceptable scenarios in retail settings, advertising venues, social spots, protest rallies, dimly lit streets, and so on.

Will Apple Face ID be solely responsible for such bad scenarios? No. But it might well accelerate the arrival of negative secondary effects. Neither shaving a few millimeters of bezel, saving a few milliseconds of finger-poking time, nor sending gobs of animated emoji are worth that.
 

nviz22

Cancelled
Jun 24, 2013
5,277
3,071
Sorry, there simply is no iPhone that should cost more than the S8 and S8+. Don't even bother comparing any iPhone to the Note line. The iPhone X isn't even in the same league. I don't buy into letting companies sell me an "experience" as their way of jacking up their price. Complete joke.

But but.... fastest processor on the market, FaceID, Poop Animoji, protruding 4k 60 FPS camera, swiping gestures, 1125p display, 3GB RAM, dual speakers that got better because "we don't need a headphone jack," "we also got wireless charging albeit slower," quick charging with a $75 optional peripheral set, bluetooth 5.0, a cool looking notch, portrait lighting, machine learning, augmented reality, plus don't forget the most efficient OS ever that always gets updates and offers just the features Apple wants "us to have" along with the premium experience you get by only "owning an iPhone."

All starting at $1000 USD for the 64gb model lol. Not to mention the $430 price for an Apple Watch 3 with LTE (42mm) along with any cases and screen protectors you need. The cost of ownership for me with all the basics including the Watch, screen protector, case, phone, quick charger, and taxes: $1,629.61. A brilliant way to spend $, no?

Or I could pay $350 for Note 8 alone after selling the camera that comes with it on a BOGO special. A case cost me $12 and a screen protector could run me about $25. Grand total: $387. Plus my Moto 360 works with my Note 8.

Stark difference because I get the most versatile phone on the market with the Stylus experience, all the latest specs, a top of the line camera, best OLED screen, quick charge outta the box, a headphone jack, bluetooth 5.0, no ugly notch, no useless gimmicky titled stuff like Animojis, VR support, plus no OS that works primitively, and I am not confined to Apple's BS.
 
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tbayrgs

macrumors 604
Jul 5, 2009
7,467
5,097
I'll take the beer bet ;)

I know you replied to me and my post but then you kinda went off the reservation so to speak Included a lot of things my post did not cover even remotely. It seemed like post meant as a reply to the whole thread

FID (FaceID) did not work so well when it was demonstrated. Craig had to wipe the sweat off of his face to get it to work correctly. I hope it works as advertised and look forward to trying it out for myself.

First--yes, only the first part of the post was a reply to you. The second part was separate post that MR automatically merged with your reply since no there were no other posts in-between them.

I think it's a little premature to write off FaceID based on a single failed demo on what very may well be preproduction software. The 'wipe the sweat off his face' is pure speculation as well, just like every other 'theory' posted across the internet. Let's wait to see some significant real world usage before we pass judgment.

But they do look back at times.....like displays larger than 3.5 or a smaller ipad. They have added many features that they have publicly denounced in the past. Didn't they publicly denounce the MS Surface on to pretty emulate it in the 12.9 IPP? The advertising was almost identical to the MS surface pictures

So apple does look back and change course sometimes.

Yup, they've correct course at times but I wouldn't call any of those full backtracks or reversals. Completely reverting back to TouchID would be more analogous to putting back the headphone jack in the iPhone or going back to USB-A from USB-C. But yeah, won't ever say never, just stating I personally think it's unlikely. Apple has an awful lot of pride in their business decisions and practically never admits they're wrong.

Those are big IFs........
You can’t go all in on a single point of access and expect every case to be accounted for....there are too many variables
Peoples appearance changes....sometimes daily. Sunglasses? Different hairstyles....shaving off beard growth. Sweating while working out....the list goes on and it is a fairly long one.
I can see people having to enter their passcode a lot and having to have FID relearn their face.
There are going to be a record amount of threads in the iphone section about all the problems with FID.....just wait......it is going to happen.

I'm not claiming it's going to be a sure fire winner right out of the gate--this is step one. I just think that if it works well enough, within their expectations, that Apple will keep moving forward with this solution. It'll get better with every iteration, just like TouchID has improved since it's first launch. And I'm not guaranteeing success here. I just see this as the direction Apple is headed.

Privacy concerns.... Cops won’t need a warrant to point the phone at your face.

Nor do they need one now to compel you to put your finger on your phone's FP sensor.

Then there is ease of use....TID (TouchID) is so much easier to use. I have heard you defend TouchID numerous times here on MR. Reversing course? Defending Apple?
I can find the FPS on my iphone while it is in my pocket and have it unlocked while bringing it out of my pocket ot picking it up. I have heard this same thing from you several times in threads here on MR. Glancing at your phone while lying on a flat surface and touching the FPS to unlock it. Will FaceID work as well?

Again, you're confusing my observations with preferences. I'm not defending this solution by Apple, only stating I see it as their future. I love having a front facing FP sensor, for most of the reasons you've listed. I don't see the initial implementation of FaceID working as seamlessly as TouchID either. But imagine the scenario I previously described where the biometrics, including the facial recognition, are so seamless (yet also secure) that you just pull out your phone and start using it, that the phone is able to verify your identity in the time from first grabbing your phone to your first glance, without having to specifically position it, touch a sensor, etc. It's secure and you don't have to think about it, ever, because it just happens during the course of your regular use. That's the future I think Apple is aiming for and FaceID is their very first step.

Regardless, we won't be able to setting this bet for another year or two (I prefer a good dark stout or porter, BTW ;))--will certainly be interesting to see how it all shakes out across the industry. :D
 

The Game 161

macrumors Nehalem
Dec 15, 2010
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ab0ad1d8baf2ab5af337e572c6713dcc.jpg


Got to admit just got my iPhone x case today and wow this thing feels small. Got more tempted for the note 8 again ha
 
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jamezr

macrumors P6
Aug 7, 2011
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First--yes, only the first part of the post was a reply to you. The second part was separate post that MR automatically merged with your reply since no there were no other posts in-between them.

I think it's a little premature to write off FaceID based on a single failed demo on what very may well be preproduction software. The 'wipe the sweat off his face' is pure speculation as well, just like every other 'theory' posted across the internet. Let's wait to see some significant real world usage before we pass judgment.



Yup, they've correct course at times but I wouldn't call any of those full backtracks or reversals. Completely reverting back to TouchID would be more analogous to putting back the headphone jack in the iPhone or going back to USB-A from USB-C. But yeah, won't ever say never, just stating I personally think it's unlikely. Apple has an awful lot of pride in their business decisions and practically never admits they're wrong.



I'm not claiming it's going to be a sure fire winner right out of the gate--this is step one. I just think that if it works well enough, within their expectations, that Apple will keep moving forward with this solution. It'll get better with every iteration, just like TouchID has improved since it's first launch. And I'm not guaranteeing success here. I just see this as the direction Apple is headed.



Nor do they need one now to compel you to put your finger on your phone's FP sensor.



Again, you're confusing my observations with preferences. I'm not defending this solution by Apple, only stating I see it as their future. I love having a front facing FP sensor, for most of the reasons you've listed. I don't see the initial implementation of FaceID working as seamlessly as TouchID either. But imagine the scenario I previously described where the biometrics, including the facial recognition, are so seamless (yet also secure) that you just pull out your phone and start using it, that the phone is able to verify your identity in the time from first grabbing your phone to your first glance, without having to specifically position it, touch a sensor, etc. It's secure and you don't have to think about it, ever, because it just happens during the course of your regular use. That's the future I think Apple is aiming for and FaceID is their very first step.

Regardless, we won't be able to setting this bet for another year or two (I prefer a good dark stout or porter, BTW ;))--will certainly be interesting to see how it all shakes out across the industry. :D

No one is writing it off yet......But i do not think it was pre production software. I mean IOS 11 was at gold master level when the keynote was done. Then you can clearly see Craig wipe off his face. So it was either the sweat or the makeup.
I think it's a little premature to write off FaceID based on a single failed demo on what very may well be pre production software. The 'wipe the sweat off his face' is pure speculation as well, just like every other 'theory' posted across the internet. Let's wait to see some significant real world usage before we pass judgment.

Nor do they need one now to compel you to put your finger on your phone's FP sensor.
But they do....and it depends on which court you go to. In some cases they have been denied the use of a fingerprint as it is a body part. Just like they cannot force you to give a DNA sample.

But you are defending Apple...at every turn you are providing excuses for them.
Again, you're confusing my observations with preferences. I'm not defending this solution by Apple, only stating I see it as their future.

Imagine the same scenario where FaceID is trying to scan your face when you do not want it too.....then it fails and requires your PIN code. If it is continuously trying to authenticate and scan your face....it will fail a lot of times.
But imagine the scenario I previously described where the biometrics, including the facial recognition, are so seamless (yet also secure) that you just pull out your phone and start using it, that the phone is able to verify your identity in the time from first grabbing your phone to your first glance,

If the statement below is true and the demo graphics showing someone glancing at their phone from a table top, It will have a ton of misses....what will the battery drain be on this continuous scanning and misses? It will fail and require a PIN
because it just happens during the course of your regular use


How do you know it is secure? Because Apple said so? There are a lot of biometric security pros that have doubts.
With all the cameras in our society now our faces are public information. Our faces are scanned continuously in all facets of our lives. So if your identity is hacked you can create new information. If your biometric information is hacked and leaked....what then? Change your face? Once Apple goes to FaceID and there are 50 million phones out there with this technology.....that kind of honey pot will be too much to resist. Biometric identity theft will be the next big security concern.
It's secure and you don't have to think about it, ever,


Then I prefer a nice Hefeweizen....maybe a little orange twist with it!
 
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tbayrgs

macrumors 604
Jul 5, 2009
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No one is writing it off yet......But i do not think it was pre production software. I mean IOS 11 was at gold master level when the keynote was done. Then you can clearly see Craig wipe off his face. So it was either the sweat or the makeup.



But they do....and it depends on which court you go to. In some cases they have been denied the use of a fingerprint as it is a body part. Just like they cannot force you to give a DNA sample.

But you are defending Apple...at every turn you are providing excuses for them.


Imagine the same scenario where FaceID is trying to scan your face when you do not want it too.....then it fails and requires your PIN code. If it is continuously trying to authenticate and scan your face....it will fail a lot of times.


If the statement below is true and the demo graphics showing someone glancing at their phone from a table top, It will have a ton of misses....what will the battery drain be on this continuous scanning and misses? It will fail and require a PIN



How do you know it is secure? Because Apple said so? There are a lot of biometric security pros that have doubts.
With all the cameras in our society now our faces are public information. Our faces are scanned continuously in all facets of our lives. So if your identity is hacked you can create new information. If your biometric information is hacked and leaked....what then? Change your face? Once Apple goes to FaceID and there are 50 million phones out there with this technology.....that kind of honey pot will be too much to resist. Biometric identity theft will be the next big security concern.



Then I prefer a nice Hefeweizen....maybe a little orange twist with it!

First, not defending Apple’s decision, just trying to speculate on the future of FaceID from Apple’s perspective. Also, I’m not claiming FaceID will be the perfect replacement for TouchID. But I also can’t see Apple implementing this type of biometric security without at least anticipating any/all of the scenarios you’re postulating. You don’t think they thought about these during development?

To be clear again, I’m not advocating FaceID over TouchID—how could I considering I’ve never used it? I’ve already stated I’m super skeptical about how it’ll work and that it’s a big reason I’m not getting a X for my personal use at launch. I just think Apple doesn’t invest in these types of things without a long range plan and when they do, they go all in. Thus why I think TouchID will go the way of the dodo IF it works reasonably well. And I’m not too excited by the prospects of that.

On the other hand, it may just suck ass and Apple could very well be forced into an about face. I’m sure they’re still researching the under display TouchID implementation but if I had to guess, that’s purely as a fallback solution that we’ll only see if FaceID falls flat, well....flat on its face (yup, I went there :p).
 
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Radon87000

macrumors 604
Nov 29, 2013
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Got to admit just got my iPhone x case today and wow this thing feels small. Got more tempted for the note 8 again ha
Damn it. Now I am more confused than ever. Is it really that much smaller than the Plus? I just can’t make up my mind between these 2 phones. I have played with the Note 8 and it was huge compared to my 7 Plus. Should I just keep my 7 and get the Note?
 

The Game 161

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Dec 15, 2010
30,991
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Damn it. Now I am more confused than ever. Is it really that much smaller than the Plus? I just can’t make up my mind between these 2 phones. I have played with the Note 8 and it was huge compared to my 7 Plus. Should I just keep my 7 and get the Note?
It does feel like the regular sized iphone. I wouldn't worry though as the screen is more full screen afterall so it's not like there is wasted space on the home button and the top of the bezel afterall.

The note 8 will dwarf it but guess it depends if you are happy with the size. It's 5.8 inch device but looking at the case is it really?

b8f1350846d62bf8bfe0004fe7a1eb9e.jpg


Side by side with 7 plus
 
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jamezr

macrumors P6
Aug 7, 2011
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First, not defending Apple’s decision, just trying to speculate on the future of FaceID from Apple’s perspective. Also, I’m not claiming FaceID will be the perfect replacement for TouchID. But I also can’t see Apple implementing this type of biometric security without at least anticipating any/all of the scenarios you’re postulating. You don’t think they thought about these during development?

To be clear again, I’m not advocating FaceID over TouchID—how could I considering I’ve never used it? I’ve already stated I’m super skeptical about how it’ll work and that it’s a big reason I’m not getting a X for my personal use at launch. I just think Apple doesn’t invest in these types of things without a long range plan and when they do, they go all in. Thus why I think TouchID will go the way of the dodo IF it works reasonably well. And I’m not too excited by the prospects of that.

On the other hand, it may just suck ass and Apple could very well be forced into an about face. I’m sure they’re still researching the under display TouchID implementation but if I had to guess, that’s purely as a fallback solution that we’ll only see if FaceID falls flat, well....flat on its face (yup, I went there :p).
Biometric face scanning has been spoofed several times over the years. Even the way Apple intends to implement it has been spoofed recently. Most security experts advise against biometrtrics as the lone source of security as Apple is doing with FaceID.

But FaceID introduces a new problem that TouchID has never had: Your face sits out in the open, displayed in public, and well-documented across social media platforms. Using it as a secret key is a little like writing your PIN on a Post-It note, slapping it on your forehead, and going for a stroll. Even photos on Instagram and Facebook might be enough to compromise your control of your face as a login mechanism. Researchers at the University of North Carolina last year showed that they could use Facebook photos alone to reconstruct a 3-D virtual model of someone's face that could defeat five different facial-recognition applications they tested it against, with between 55 and 85 percent success rates.

Those features show that even Apple understands the need for layers of security above and beyond FaceID. And Rogers warns that no iPhone owner should harbor any illusion that their phone's facial recognition, as slick as it seems, isn't a security compromise in exchange for convenience. "Apple always wants its user experience to be delightful," Rogers says. "In the security world that means you’re going to have to accept certain limitations." And if those limitations mean your most secret of secrets get a little less secure every time someone tags you Facebook, perhaps you should consider using an old-fashioned passcode instead.

Second, it's very hard to hide your face from someone who wants to coerce you to unlock your phone, like a mugger, a customs agent, or a policeman who has just arrested you. In some cases, criminal suspects in the US can invoke the Fifth Amendment protections from self-incrimination to refuse to give up their phone's passcode. That same protection doesn't apply to your face. Apple says that you'll need to look directly into the screen to unlock FaceID, so it won't be easy to trick someone into triggering it, but the cops could simply lock you up for contempt of court until your eyes cooperate.

https://www.wired.com/story/iphone-x-faceid-security/


"It's like setting your password to 'password' then tattooing it on your forehead," Dan Tentler, a security researcher with The Phobos Group, told Mashable in August. "Then becoming a television news anchor, or a vlogger, or something."

http://mashable.com/2017/09/12/apple-iphonex-face-id/#Q_TKoebRM5qi

However, Apple are only talking about one type of error that could happen with its Face ID algorithm – someone else gaining access. But what if your phone refuses to recognise your face, and doesn’t let you in? That’s a problem too. “The two errors are related; for a given biometric system, if you reduce one type of error, the other type of error goes up,” says Anil Jain at Michigan State University.

Under normal conditions, such as without perfect lighting, a perfectly still camera and the person in the perfect pose – in other words, the real world in which we use our phones, publicly tested algorithms have only managed to get below an overall error rate of around 5 per cent. This is a high risk of your phone failing to unlock, or, worse, unlocking for someone else.

When demonstrating Face ID on stage yesterday, Apple’s Craig Federighi found this out for himself. The software failed to recognise him and he ended up having to enter a passcode to unlock the phone.
https://www.newscientist.com/articl...ace-id-is-a-terrible-way-to-secure-your-data/
 
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Oohara

macrumors 68040
Jun 28, 2012
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It does feel like the regular sized iphone. I wouldn't worry though as the screen is more full screen afterall so it's not like there is wasted space on the home button and the top of the bezel afterall.

The note 8 will dwarf it but guess it depends if you are happy with the size. It's 5.8 inch device but looking at the case is it really?

b8f1350846d62bf8bfe0004fe7a1eb9e.jpg


Side by side with 7 plus
Yeah, 5.8" isn't as big as it sounds since it's in 18:9 (or w/e the exact aspect ratio of that bloody micky mouse eared X display is lol). We're so used to judging diagonal measurements in 16:9, and these phone makers are certainly taking advantage of that at the moment...

All those these 'OMG lookit dat 6.3" screen in a footprint not much larger than the 7+!!!1!' exclamations... (not saying what you wrote was one of those) It's 18:9 vs 16:9 folks, no sense in comparing measurements from different aspect ratios...
 

spinedoc77

macrumors G4
Jun 11, 2009
11,488
5,413

How accurate are those? The X looks pretty darn close to the Note 8, without the curved edges. I'd take the X over the Note 8 just based on that so far.
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To each their own use case when it comes to headphone jack vs no headphone jack, wireless vs wired. The lack of a headphone jack is not a deal breaker as I can still use my EarPods.
[doublepost=1506687718][/doublepost]
That’s not what was said and don’t make it an all or nothing issue.

I'll play devil's advocate here and say why should those of us who do not want a headphone jack have to live with one? Maybe an extra component, or more battery could fit in that space. Personally I'm all for moving forward and getting rid of the headphone jack. If you truly have need of it just use an adapter. You are already killing yourself carrying around those headphones cables all wrapped up, how much more space does the adapter take? Just leave the adapter connected to the headphone cables. I really can't see what the downside to having Bluetooth headphones are, they sound fantastic to me. If you are an audiophile and can truly hear the difference then you are going to have a set of real headphones, which means they are going to be fairly large anyway.

It's ironic, but I'll bet we heard stuff like this when they retired physical keyboards from phones.
 
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Kiezpirat80

macrumors 6502
Jun 16, 2013
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435
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Damn it. Now I am more confused than ever. Is it really that much smaller than the Plus? I just can’t make up my mind between these 2 phones. I have played with the Note 8 and it was huge compared to my 7 Plus. Should I just keep my 7 and get the Note?

iPhone X has exactly the same width as the iphone 8.
Apple-Shows-You-How-To-Design-For-iPhone-X-2.jpg

You can see it on Apples Human Interface Guidelines.
https://developer.apple.com/ios/human-interface-guidelines/overview/iphone-x/

I think next Year Apple will release two sizes for the iPhone X.
If you like Plus Size, iPhone X is no option.
 
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