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Voodoochild346

macrumors regular
Aug 16, 2015
118
130
We really don’t know how this will pan out until this phone gets in the wild and people start using it. And I’m not clear in how far and what angle the phone needs to be relative to your face. So it’s not about defending or bashing, I’m offering up an opinion. nobody will really know for a few months and then the jury will be out.
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What? Apples poor decision to you is apples great decision to someone else. Apple will never please everyone as no manufacturer can. Pay more for less features implemented best in class maybe. But we will find out.
Once again, they can still have their new tech while still having TouchID. Then removing that feature is a bad decision no matter how much copy members like you think otherwise. And Apple will magically find a way to include it next year and you'll start praising it again because then Apple will have given you permission.
 

I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
35,156
25,262
Gotta be in it to win it
Once again, they can still have their new tech while still having TouchID. Then removing that feature is a bad decision no matter how much copy members like you think otherwise. And Apple will magically find a way to include it next year and you'll start praising it again because then Apple will have given you permission.
Hey if they want to put back the headphone jack I give them permission to do so. But otherwise nice rhetoric.
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I did exactly that for years, having pen support in onenote in both my phone and my tablet is completely amazing. I can't tell you how much productivity it encouraged for me over the years. I kind of fell out of that routine though when MS went away from Wacom, I had to return my Note 7's last year, and the horrible curved screen on the Note 8 this year.
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But you have to factor in the cost and bulk/weight of the periperhals needed such as an external keyboard, mouse/trackpad and screen. Now if you have just a Dex station that stays at home and never travels, arguably you don't have to spend much more to get a decent windows laptop that will function much better than a smartphone, even for that basic stuff. Just my opinion, but I'd disagree that the Dex is more compelling than even just a cheap laptop.
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I'll wait and see how Face ID is in those situations where my face isn't in front of the phone. For me the facial ID on android devices is useless in many cases because of inconvenience. I'm hoping Apple gets this right, but currently fingerprint readers on the front of devices are the most useful.
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Isn't your MO to always bully others who "predict" the future?
So a discussion is now “bullying”? Works both ways using that definition.
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We have already been shown how it works. With TouchID when you glance at your phone, it’s already unlocked and waiting for your input because it unlocked the moment you held the phone. FaceID won’t be as fast as that. The reason Apple went with faceID and kept TouchID under the screen as Plan B is to save potential research costs on how to achieve the latter. They could throw in a notch with the FaceID sensor and call it a day if customers are okay with it. Integrating it into the display and making a truly bezelless screen is much more difficult. It’s nothing but a cost vs benefit analysis being done by Apple. THere is absolutely no doubt it’s slower than TouchID and TouchID on the back should have been an option.
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I am just having some fun :D
I haven’t personally tried Face ID and I’d like to see some real world usage, Before I accept “your” view of how it works and how slow it is.
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Hey do you respond to him with so much sense??? You are better off talking to a brick wall.

I have had him on ignore and now I see his constant apologizing and excuses because you keep quoting him!
Got so desperate to speak against the Note he even had to bring in the Surface Pro that says enough.

Speaking of the Surface, oh dear:
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/10/04/surface/

Good thing I got my DeX.
Well I thought the mods made a few things abundantly clear, but apparently not.
 

convergent

macrumors 68040
May 6, 2008
3,034
3,083
Hey do you respond to him with so much sense??? You are better off talking to a brick wall.

I have had him on ignore and now I see his constant apologizing and excuses because you keep quoting him!
Got so desperate to speak against the Note he even had to bring in the Surface Pro that says enough.

Speaking of the Surface, oh dear:
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/10/04/surface/

Good thing I got my DeX.

The Surface article you referenced is completely fake news - https://www.neowin.net/news/panos-panay-killing-surface-so-far-from-truth-its-a-tabloid-rumour Anyone with the least bit of understanding of the Surface and Microsoft would know its click-bait.
 
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Radon87000

macrumors 604
Nov 29, 2013
7,777
6,255
Hey if they want to put back the headphone jack I give them permission to do so. But otherwise nice rhetoric.
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So a discussion is now “bullying”? Works both ways using that definition.
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I haven’t personally tried Face ID and I’d like to see some real world usage, Before I accept “your” view of how it works and how slow it is.
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Well I thought the mods made a few things abundantly clear, but apparently not.
It's only slower than TouchID. It obviously has to be usable enough as Gen 1 TouchID otherwise no one would get this phone. The unlock methods make or break a phone.
 

Tsepz

macrumors 601
Jan 24, 2013
4,888
4,698
Johannesburg, South Africa

Tsepz

macrumors 601
Jan 24, 2013
4,888
4,698
Johannesburg, South Africa
We have already been shown how it works. With TouchID when you glance at your phone, it’s already unlocked and waiting for your input because it unlocked the moment you held the phone. FaceID won’t be as fast as that. The reason Apple went with faceID and kept TouchID under the screen as Plan B is to save potential research costs on how to achieve the latter. They could throw in a notch with the FaceID sensor and call it a day if customers are okay with it. Integrating it into the display and making a truly bezelless screen is much more difficult. It’s nothing but a cost vs benefit analysis being done by Apple. THere is absolutely no doubt it’s slower than TouchID and TouchID on the back should have been an option.
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I am just having some fun :D
LOL! Refrain from using logic with him.
 

Radon87000

macrumors 604
Nov 29, 2013
7,777
6,255
The Surface article you referenced is completely fake news - https://www.neowin.net/news/panos-panay-killing-surface-so-far-from-truth-its-a-tabloid-rumour Anyone with the least bit of understanding of the Surface and Microsoft would know its click-bait.
Microsoft is notorious for reversing course after making statements like these. For instance just a year ago

https://www.windowscentral.com/microsofts-committed-windows-10-mobile

"Let me be very clear: We are committed to deliver Windows 10 on mobile devices with small screen running ARM processors.

We are currently in development of our next generation products and I wanted to reconfirm our commitment to Windows 10 Mobile. We believe in this product's value to business customers and it is our intention to support the Windows 10 Mobile platform for many years. We have a device roadmap to support that from Microsoft as well as our OEM partners who will also be selling an expanded lineup of phone devices based on this platform."

And they pulled the plug a year later. Although I would still be surprised if they discontinued Surface because it is the only competitor for the ipad in the tablet space. Nothing comes close
 
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I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
35,156
25,262
Gotta be in it to win it
It's only slower than TouchID. It obviously has to be usable enough as Gen 1 TouchID otherwise no one would get this phone. The unlock methods make or break a phone.
But is it more effective? And does the slowness affect real world usage? I’d rather have a slower, more effective, and seemingly more secure system. But we can go round with this until we find out how this does in the Wild.
 

convergent

macrumors 68040
May 6, 2008
3,034
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Something that I have noticed with MS is most times when there are rumours of something being cut, all this tends to happen.

I'll be keeping an eye on Twitter for the next month's on Surface.

Microsoft is notorious for reversing course after making statements like these. For instance just a year ago

https://www.windowscentral.com/microsofts-committed-windows-10-mobile

"Let me be very clear: We are committed to deliver Windows 10 on mobile devices with small screen running ARM processors.

We are currently in development of our next generation products and I wanted to reconfirm our commitment to Windows 10 Mobile. We believe in this product's value to business customers and it is our intention to support the Windows 10 Mobile platform for many years. We have a device roadmap to support that from Microsoft as well as our OEM partners who will also be selling an expanded lineup of phone devices based on this platform."

And they pulled the plug a year later. Although I would still be surprised if they discontinued Surface because it is the only competitor for the ipad in the tablet space. Nothing comes close

I don't claim to be all knowing, but if you spend any time looking at what the Surface line does for Microsoft, it be counter to all logic for them to cancel it. The mobile phone thing is not their core business, Windows is. The Surface line is a driver for the Windows business, and even if they don't make a dime on it it creates tremendous value for Microsoft because it gives them a needed channel to advance Windows. Without the Surface line, the PC OEMs were chasing each other to the bottom. Microsoft has created whole new high value market segments through Surface. They are not going after the high volume segments. They will never be a high volume business, and its not their intention.
 

Yankee512

Suspended
Original poster
Apr 29, 2017
462
391
The Surface article you referenced is completely fake news - https://www.neowin.net/news/panos-panay-killing-surface-so-far-from-truth-its-a-tabloid-rumour Anyone with the least bit of understanding of the Surface and Microsoft would know its click-bait.
https://www.techspot.com/news/71336-microsoft-dispels-rumors-abandon-surface-line-products-2019.html
Microsoft dispels rumors that it will abandon Surface lineup by 2019
Panos Panay, corporate vice president of Microsoft's devices group, denies that the company has plans to pull the plug on the Surface line.

During a panel discussion on Monday attended by Business Insider, Panay said that talks of Microsoft shutting down the Surface by 2019 are nothing more than “tabloid rumors,” and are “so far from the truth it’s laughable.”

His comments were in response to reports that industry analysts do not see a future for the Surface past 2019.

Canalys CEO Steve Brazier hosted a panel at the Canalys Channels Forum last week. During the discussion, Brazier predicted that Microsoft would pull production of Surface products by 2019 or sooner. He cited “choppy performance” from a sales standpoint as the primary indicator.

“Overall they are not making money,” Brazier said. “It doesn’t make sense for them to be in this business.”

2017-10-10-image-14.jpg


He insists that the margins are just not there for Microsoft and when they realize that, the Surface will be the first to the chopping block.

Brazier was not alone in his views. Lenovo COO Gianfranco Lanci and Dell CCO Marius Haas agreed that the Surface was a money-losing venture for Microsoft. Barring a sudden sharp boost in market share, Lanci said that he would not be surprised to see an exit before 2019.

"Frankly speaking, it is difficult to see why they should keep losing money."

Not everyone agrees with this assessment. Our own Rob Thubron pointed out that Microsoft is not likely to want to suffer the hit to its hardware reputation, especially after its smartphone failure. With the latest Surface offerings released just last June, a 2019 exit seems too soon.

Furthermore, the Surface is more important to Microsoft than just sales. It is a platform Redmond uses for improving other products as well. The Surface Pen is a good example. Improvements in the software for the stylus have bled into Windows 10 so that now the Pen works better even on PCs from other manufacturers.

A weak quarter here and there is not going to deter Microsoft from producing the Surface. Panay points to the $900 million loss suffered in 2013 with the Surface RT. That was a “short-term setback” that only served to make Microsoft try harder. The company is set in its resolve to keep the Surface on the market and continue to improve it.

Panay reflected, “[Microsoft] is in hardware for the long haul, and Surface isn't going anywhere.”
 

Radon87000

macrumors 604
Nov 29, 2013
7,777
6,255
But is it more effective? And does the slowness affect real world usage? I’d rather have a slower, more effective, and seemingly more secure system. But we can go round with this until we find out how this does in the Wild.

You cannot have an irritating unlock method just for security. Samsung’s iris scanner takes a second to find your eyes and unlock yet people still found it annoying compared to the FPS sensor.

The most secure method and unhackable is a alpha numerical 5 character pin code. FaceID will be hacked within a few weeks of launch
 
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I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
35,156
25,262
Gotta be in it to win it
You cannot have an irritating unlock method just for security. Samsung’s iris scanner takes a second to find your eyes and unlock yet people still found it annoying compared to the FPS sensor.

The most secure method and unhackable is a alpha numerical 5 character pin code. FaceID will be hacked within a few weeks of launch
Ok we’ll see, you’re entitled to your opinion given you’ve never used it. I’m keeping an open mind to see what really happens. Even a lucky ne’er do well could get lucky and guess a pin. Nothing is really safe, but what is safe enough?
 

Radon87000

macrumors 604
Nov 29, 2013
7,777
6,255
Ok we’ll see, you’re entitled to your opinion given you’ve never used it. I’m keeping an open mind to see what really happens.
The real question is can we make it so that when we stare at it it goes direct to the home screen like TouchID and iris scanner on the S8 or do we have to keep swiping up the lock screen every time because every hands on video with the X showed the latter. This would be seriously annoying.
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Ok we’ll see, you’re entitled to your opinion given you’ve never used it. I’m keeping an open mind to see what really happens. Even a lucky ne’er do well could get lucky and guess a pin. Nothing is really safe, but what is safe enough?
You cannot guess an alpha numeric pin. Using a computer takes upward of 30 Years.
 

I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
35,156
25,262
Gotta be in it to win it
The real question is can we make it so that when we stare at it it goes direct to the home screen like TouchID and iris scanner on the S8 or do we have to keep swiping up the lock screen every time because every hands on video with the X showed the latter. This would be seriously annoying.
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You cannot guess an alpha numeric pin. Using a computer takes upward of 30 Years.
Sure you can guess a pin, people win the lottery, don’t they?
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The real question is can we make it so that when we stare at it it goes direct to the home screen like TouchID and iris scanner on the S8 or do we have to keep swiping up the lock screen every time because every hands on video with the X showed the latter. This would be seriously annoying.
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You cannot guess an alpha numeric pin. Using a computer takes upward of 30 Years.
As far as the swipe one will have to see.
 

convergent

macrumors 68040
May 6, 2008
3,034
3,083
Sure you can guess a pin, people win the lottery, don’t they?

If you have it set to wipe the device after 10 failed attempts, I think that's pretty safe. I've not heard of anyone winning the lottery after only playing 10 times... if its happened I'm willing to accept that level of risk. There is probably a far greater chance I'll die from some accident or disease than someone guessing my PIN.
 

I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
35,156
25,262
Gotta be in it to win it
So you are going to guess a Pin like “San#12$£^#1224” ?
In the same vein faced if will be hacked within weeks, sure. People hacked Touch ID and none of the “mongers g” ever came to fruition in a massive way that spelled doom for the technology. People’s thumbs weren’t cut off etc. I suspect an equivalent thing with Face ID. Someone will figure out how to hack it but that technique will be beyond reach for almost everyone.
 

Yankee512

Suspended
Original poster
Apr 29, 2017
462
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In the same vein faced if will be hacked within weeks, sure. People hacked Touch ID and none of the “mongers g” ever came to fruition in a massive way that spelled doom for the technology. People’s thumbs weren’t cut off etc. I suspect an equivalent thing with Face ID. Someone will figure out how to hack it but that technique will be beyond reach for almost everyone.
Hey cop, you can't look at my phone without a warrant. Cop says you sure. Holds phone up to his face and it unlocks. Thanks. Now we can look. That's much easier than pin, or fingerprint.
 

widgeteer

Suspended
Jun 12, 2016
1,565
4,610
Hey cop, you can't look at my phone without a warrant. Cop says you sure. Holds phone up to his face and it unlocks. Thanks. Now we can look. That's much easier than pin, or fingerprint.

They've included a quick means to kill Face ID as a means to open the phone.
 
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Yankee512

Suspended
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Apr 29, 2017
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Note 8 has a bigger screen, and the V30 only had 4% left. That tells me the Note 8 won really.
 

widgeteer

Suspended
Jun 12, 2016
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Yawn...

Another test where the iPhone 8 Plus takes the L

Fantastic performance by V30 and Note8 respectively huge, bright displays AND great battery life in heavy usage. :)

This hasn’t been my own experience. My 8 Plus has had better battery life than my Note 8 with similar usage.
 

Voodoochild346

macrumors regular
Aug 16, 2015
118
130
This hasn’t been my own experience. My 8 Plus has had better battery life than my Note 8 with similar usage.
I think the Note 8 has better battery life when using the screen for things like video playback but the IPhone 8 plus might have better standby. I'm not sure but that might account for the differences in battery life amongst different use cases.
 
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