Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

convergent

macrumors 68040
May 6, 2008
3,034
3,083
Yeah dump $5000 worth of hardware and leave and spend even more building it up again. Sounds like a plan. But not surprised with his response. It’s the only defence he has.
We are talking about technology. It gets turned over on some interval. I have moved from mostly Apple to mostly not Apple and I didn't "dump" $5000 doing it. As devices hit my radar for updates, I made a decision and purchased what served my needs. In the past the decisions were Apple mostly. Lately not Apple. If you want to blindly buy from one company without considering other products, go for it. I like to make more informed purchases with my money.
 
  • Like
Reactions: v0lume4 and koigirl

AustinIllini

macrumors G5
Oct 20, 2011
12,699
10,567
Austin, TX
We are talking about technology. It gets turned over on some interval. I have moved from mostly Apple to mostly not Apple and I didn't "dump" $5000 doing it. As devices hit my radar for updates, I made a decision and purchased what served my needs. In the past the decisions were Apple mostly. Lately not Apple. If you want to blindly buy from one company without considering other products, go for it. I like to make more informed purchases with my money.
While I appreciate that it's something like $2000 and can be done over a number of years, that doesn't suddenly make the argument "If you don't like the ecosystem then leave" any more realistic.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Septembersrain

I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
35,156
25,262
Gotta be in it to win it
While I appreciate that it's something like $2000 and can be done over a number of years, that doesn't suddenly make the argument "If you don't like the ecosystem then leave" any more realistic.
That’s what I did. I started to want to get more into apples ecosystem. So I bought more Apple products instead of windows based products; as I turned over my technology.
 

Technarchy

macrumors 604
May 21, 2012
6,753
4,927
EVerythingApplePro ran the WiFi Test Multiple times between the iPhone X and the One Plus 5t. Each time the iPhone X was half the speed.

WiFi speeds are the same as my other devices on my network. They all do the about 100mb up and down which is the capacity of my internet.

Is this supposed to be a problem?
 

widgeteer

Suspended
Jun 12, 2016
1,565
4,610
Seems my comment regarding nit picking went a bit over your head.

You know what i meant in all instances despite my literature and language skills being less than yours.

A higher education is nothing without a little bit of grace and humilty.

Please look in my post history and knock yourself out if being the forum grammar policeman is your bag.

Personally, i prefer to stick to the topics at hand rather than the minutia of the post itself.


Please feel free to have the last word (again) on this. It will torment you if you don't and I'm too exhausted with it to bother.

I responded to each and every one of your arguments. This is now your second or third post avoiding mine while taking yet another childish personal shot.
[doublepost=1511296604][/doublepost]
If planned obsolescence isn’t a thing why doesn’t Apple enable downgrade support and provide security fixes for older iOS versions. Both Microsoft and Google do this with their devices.

The way it is right now it a device is upgraded and it slows down, it gets stuck on that performance level with no way out. Surely more happy customers outweigh a pretty marketing chart at the keynote.

Microsoft and Google have to do this because a large swath of their market stays on older OS versions, in the latter's case due to fragmentation. Google has no choice but to support older OS's otherwise lots of their OEM's customer base will be borked. If I'm not mistaken (too lazy to look this up), either Lollipop or Marshmallow are still the dominant OS on Android devices world wide. Think about that and ask your question again as to why Google supports older OS's. The answer is because adoption rate is atrocious and odds are yesterday's Android version is still today's Android version.
 
  • Like
Reactions: I7guy

I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
35,156
25,262
Gotta be in it to win it
WiFi speeds are the same as my other devices on my network. They all do the about 100mb up and down which is the capacity of my internet.

Is this supposed to be a problem?
Not sure.
 

Attachments

  • A79F53C9-158E-4B40-B114-E84739796FE6.png
    A79F53C9-158E-4B40-B114-E84739796FE6.png
    471.6 KB · Views: 89

timeconsumer

macrumors 68020
Aug 1, 2008
2,135
2,173
Portland
WiFi speeds are the same as my other devices on my network. They all do the about 100mb up and down which is the capacity of my internet.

Is this supposed to be a problem?
For you since you're maxing out your internet connection speed I don't think that would be a problem. But if you download a lot of large files over WiFi and on the same network one device is much slower than the others, then yes it could be a problem. It all depends on what your usage is.
 

widgeteer

Suspended
Jun 12, 2016
1,565
4,610
I am curious why you spend so much time on the Alternative forum if you love your Apple products so much and don't seem to be interested in or considering alternative products? Every post you make is Apple-defending. So why not spend more of your time, *wisdom*, and effort on the iOS or Apple product forums and less here starting arguments/doggedly/obstinately defending a trillion dollar company?

No idea who this is directed at, but this is a public forum designed to engage in conversation. If I were to reverse your question: why do so many people on the alternative forum spend their time obsessing over Apple? Almost literally every thread dedicated to an Android phone devolves into explaining why whatever phone is being discussed is so much better than an iPhone.

To each their own. I say respond to the posts you care about, ignore the rest.
 
  • Like
Reactions: tbayrgs and I7guy

Technarchy

macrumors 604
May 21, 2012
6,753
4,927
For you since you're maxing out your internet connection speed I don't think that would be a problem. But if you download a lot of large files over WiFi and on the same network one device is much slower than the others, then yes it could be a problem. It all depends on what your usage is.

This sounds a bit like parsing without purpose.

Exactly what files have you personally transferred on the OnePlus compared to the iPhone X where the OnePlus has proven to be significantly faster?

I can say that my beefy 4K 60fps videos all appear within iCloud very quickly after I connect to WiFi and are available on my MacBook Pro and iPad.
 

timeconsumer

macrumors 68020
Aug 1, 2008
2,135
2,173
Portland
This sounds a bit like parsing without purpose.

Exactly what files have you personally transferred on the OnePlus compared to the iPhone X where the OnePlus has proven to be significantly faster?

I can say that my beefy 4K 60fps videos all appear within iCloud very quickly after I connect to WiFi and are available on my MacBook Pro and iPad.
Oh, I personally have not done that. I was just answering the question that you had asked. I can give you an example for my usage where this could be a problem. I like to download movies/shows on the Netflix app so I can watch them when I get some time and not have to use my data to stream them. If I had a device that was much slower, this could pose a problem for me. I have a 1Gbps down/up internet connection so it's pretty fast either way.
 

Technarchy

macrumors 604
May 21, 2012
6,753
4,927
Oh, I personally have not done that. I was just answering the question that you had asked. I can give you an example for my usage where this could be a problem. I like to download movies/shows on the Netflix app so I can watch them when I get some time and not have to use my data to stream them. If I had a device that was much slower, this could pose a problem for me. I have a 1Gbps down/up internet connection so it's pretty fast either way.

I download offline viewing content on a regular basis. The choke point is typical company servers, not my pipe or my device. If you have a network monitor you’ll see netflix transfer speeds dip to a paltry few mb/s.

And since we are using Everything Apple Pro, notice the ping is significantly lower on the iPhone X. If you know what that means you know if that benefits your use case over the OnePlus higher ping.

Either way, I wouldn’t get too invested in this metric all around.
 
  • Like
Reactions: timeconsumer

convergent

macrumors 68040
May 6, 2008
3,034
3,083
While I appreciate that it's something like $2000 and can be done over a number of years, that doesn't suddenly make the argument "If you don't like the ecosystem then leave" any more realistic.
You are making no sense. If I'm planning to replace my phone, I can buy Apple or non Apple. If they are both the same price then how am I spending $2k more to "leave the ecosystem"? Where did you get that number? You make it sound like people are trapped for life in an ecosystem. I "left the ecosystem" and it didn't cost me anymore than not leaving the ecosystem.
 
  • Like
Reactions: I7guy

AustinIllini

macrumors G5
Oct 20, 2011
12,699
10,567
Austin, TX
You are making no sense. If I'm planning to replace my phone, I can buy Apple or non Apple. If they are both the same price then how am I spending $2k more to "leave the ecosystem"? Where did you get that number? You make it sound like people are trapped for life in an ecosystem. I "left the ecosystem" and it didn't cost me anymore than not leaving the ecosystem.
You don't understand how an ecosystem works. If I have a PC and an iPhone, I am not in the Apple ecosystem. The Apple ecosystem only works if you have (at minimum), two Apple devices. At MINIMUM you're spending $650 for an iPhone and $300ish for an iPad. That's $1000+ with no AppleCare. But, let's be real. You're more likely going iPhone and Mac, which is at minimum $1700 US. Want all three? That's upward of $2000 US. That's the quote I gave you.

"If you don't like an ecosystem, leave it" implies that at some point I'm going to spend $2000 to switch. That is a shortsighted and ignorant attitude.

I'm making perfect sense. An ecosystem isn't an ecosystem without multiple devices.
 

mib1800

Suspended
Sep 16, 2012
2,859
1,250
You don't understand how an ecosystem works. If I have a PC and an iPhone, I am not in the Apple ecosystem. The Apple ecosystem only works if you have (at minimum), two Apple devices. At MINIMUM you're spending $650 for an iPhone and $300ish for an iPad. That's $1000+ with no AppleCare. But, let's be real. You're more likely going iPhone and Mac, which is at minimum $1700 US. Want all three? That's upward of $2000 US. That's the quote I gave you.

"If you don't like an ecosystem, leave it" implies that at some point I'm going to spend $2000 to switch. That is a shortsighted and ignorant attitude.

I'm making perfect sense. An ecosystem isn't an ecosystem without multiple devices.

You are assuming that you need to discard your Mac when you buy a non-iphone. In case you forget all the other eco-systems out there most probably will work with your Mac (and maybe ipad too). The "stuck mentality" only applies if you chose to be in the Apple eco-system.
 

AustinIllini

macrumors G5
Oct 20, 2011
12,699
10,567
Austin, TX
You are assuming that you need to discard your Mac when you buy a non-iphone. In case you forget all the other eco-systems out there most probably will work with your Mac (and maybe ipad too). The "stuck mentality" only applies if you chose to be in the Apple eco-system.
I will concede that point, but that doesn't change that the "if you don't like the ecosystem, switch" attitude is asinine.
 

Technarchy

macrumors 604
May 21, 2012
6,753
4,927
You don't understand how an ecosystem works. If I have a PC and an iPhone, I am not in the Apple ecosystem. The Apple ecosystem only works if you have (at minimum), two Apple devices. At MINIMUM you're spending $650 for an iPhone and $300ish for an iPad. That's $1000+ with no AppleCare. But, let's be real. You're more likely going iPhone and Mac, which is at minimum $1700 US. Want all three? That's upward of $2000 US. That's the quote I gave you.

"If you don't like an ecosystem, leave it" implies that at some point I'm going to spend $2000 to switch. That is a shortsighted and ignorant attitude.

I'm making perfect sense. An ecosystem isn't an ecosystem without multiple devices.

It’s really not as much of a big deal as you are making it seem. I move in and out of my Apple ecosystem all the time and my content largely doesn’t know the difference.
 

Radon87000

macrumors 604
Nov 29, 2013
7,777
6,255
I responded to each and every one of your arguments. This is now your second or third post avoiding mine while taking yet another childish personal shot.
[doublepost=1511296604][/doublepost]

Microsoft and Google have to do this because a large swath of their market stays on older OS versions, in the latter's case due to fragmentation. Google has no choice but to support older OS's otherwise lots of their OEM's customer base will be borked. If I'm not mistaken (too lazy to look this up), either Lollipop or Marshmallow are still the dominant OS on Android devices world wide. Think about that and ask your question again as to why Google supports older OS's. The answer is because adoption rate is atrocious and odds are yesterday's Android version is still today's Android version.

I am talking about their Pixel lineup where downgrading is allowed. I don’t think it’s possible to downgrade an OEM device. You would think they would emulate the iPhone there and lock their customers on the latest version once it’s updated but they freely allow customers to keep their device on the device because Google doesn’t care about that marketing chart. What do the adoption numbers have to do with their Pixel lineup? Security fixes should be pushed for older OS because it’s MY choice whether I want to or not. If I don’t like a particular release I want to go back to the performance I paid for. I do not pay high amounts to get stuck on 6 hour battery life and sit on my butt and wait and wait and wait till a fix is pushed out when I could be enjoying the older version my phone was running splendidly. Why are updates auto downloaded in the background and keep popping up if I choose to not upgrade. I have to download a TVOS beta profile to force the device not to check for updates but that annoying red badge stays like the eyesore it is.

I find this update business overrated and an exercise in frustration. My iPhone and iPad from 2014 are nothing but paperweights on iOS 11. The Air 2 is kinda usable but once I used the Pro 2017 I feel like tossing it away if I try to use it. And here’s the thing, on iOS 8 it was never this slow and I remember it being as fast as my Pro on iOS 8 and 9.

In the current state both the iPhone and iPad feel from 2014 feel slower to use than my Moto G 2016 and a Galaxy Tab S2 both of which score much lower than the iDevices in benchmarks are are on an older OS. The Moto is on Marshmallow while the Galaxy is on Nougat but I enjoy the performance.

I have learnt from my experience though. My Pro 2017 stays on iOS 10 because it does what I need and does it smoothly with great 2-3 day battery life. That’s what matters. Not some new design with even more graphical wizardry sprinkled throughout the OS to slow down what I use the device for.
 

Technarchy

macrumors 604
May 21, 2012
6,753
4,927
I will concede that point, but that doesn't change that the "if you don't like the ecosystem, switch" attitude is asinine.

It’s actually not an asinine notion. Complaining is far more asinine in addition to being tedious.

I dumped my entire windows environment and was easily more than $4000 in.

Didn’t happen overnight but within a year I had no windows products in my house.
 

AustinIllini

macrumors G5
Oct 20, 2011
12,699
10,567
Austin, TX
It’s actually not an asinine notion. Complaining is far more asinine in addition to being tedious.

I dumped my entire windows environment and was easily more than $4000 in.

Didn’t happen overnight but within a year I had no windows products in my house.
It's still completely asinine to expect people to drop $4K worth of electronics within a year.
 

Technarchy

macrumors 604
May 21, 2012
6,753
4,927
It's still completely asinine to expect people to drop $4K worth of electronics within a year.

You’re thought process is incredibly singular. Nothing is “dropped”. Sold, repurposed, traded, and gifted...

You act as if you’re only capable of understanding purchased or burned in a fire. I promise there are dozens of gradients in between.
 

AustinIllini

macrumors G5
Oct 20, 2011
12,699
10,567
Austin, TX
You’re thought process is incredibly singular. Nothing is “dropped”. Sold, repurposed, traded, and gifted...

You act as if you’re only capable of understanding purchased or burned in a fire. I promise there are dozens of gradients in between.

And almost all of them are unacceptable for a huge portion of phone owners.
 

Technarchy

macrumors 604
May 21, 2012
6,753
4,927
And almost all of them are unacceptable for a huge portion of phone owners.

How not?

Isn’t this a common bragging point on this forum; the cost of entry for android is so low that anyone can join the party for a fraction of the cost of an iPhone and still get a good device.

How exactly is this hard?
 

widgeteer

Suspended
Jun 12, 2016
1,565
4,610
I am talking about their Pixel lineup where downgrading is allowed. I don’t think it’s possible to downgrade an OEM device.


You would think they would emulate the iPhone there and lock their customers on the latest version once it’s updated but they freely allow customers to keep their device on the device because Google doesn’t care about that marketing chart.

No, they care about making sure they keep their user base because they sell your data. They certainly do care about marketing charts, you're on all of them as one of their users, which means you're an individual database they sell to other companies.

(I'm not suggesting the above is necessarily a negative or a positive. You just sound kind of naive in suggesting Google does this out of purity and good heartedness. They all use marketing charts, and they all need their marketing charts to look good. They just have different business models.)

What do the adoption numbers have to do with their Pixel lineup?

Because you asked why Apple doesn't allow downgrades vs Microsoft and Google. Now suddenly you were just talking strictly about the Pixel lineup of phones, which is pretty disingenuous and goal post moving. I love the internet: why concede a point when you can make up a brand new one instead.

But fine, let's stick with the Pixel: get back to me if Nougat is still being signed by Google onto these phones 4 years from now. The Pixel line is exactly two versions old at this point. In fact, get back to me if you can even download *new* OS's on these phones 4 years from now like you can with iPhone. (Yes, I'm aware new OS's are the devil to you, but we'll just have to accept that you're kind of in the minority preferring your phone to be a wayback machine.)


Security fixes should be pushed for older OS because it’s MY choice whether I want to or not. If I don’t like a particular release I want to go back to the performance I paid for. I do not pay high amounts to get stuck on 6 hour battery life and sit on my butt and wait and wait and wait till a fix is pushed out when I could be enjoying the older version my phone was running splendidly. Why are updates auto downloaded in the background and keep popping up if I choose to not upgrade. I have to download a TVOS beta profile to force the device not to check for updates but that annoying red badge stays like the eyesore it is.

Right. So there's a giant outcry for *old* versions of Android. That's the crux of a lot of folks' problem with iOS. Funny, cause most of the folks around here complain about the lack of speedy updates when comparing different Android OEMs.

And incidentally, what you've written here is just a rant against Apple and why you don't prefer it. That's all well and good but it has nothing to do with pretending Apple has some nefarious corporate policy of planned obsolesce.

You like Google. Got it.

I find this update business overrated and an exercise in frustration. My iPhone and iPad from 2014 are nothing but paperweights on iOS 11. The Air 2 is kinda usable but once I used the Pro 2017 I feel like tossing it away if I try to use it. And here’s the thing, on iOS 8 it was never this slow and I remember it being as fast as my Pro on iOS 8 and 9.

Mine are not. I guess my experience cancels out yours. See how anecdotal arguments work? This is why I stick with actual data and not emotion about these things.

In the current state both the iPhone and iPad feel from 2014 feel slower to use than my Moto G 2016 and a Galaxy Tab S2 both of which score much lower than the iDevices in benchmarks are are on an older OS. The Moto is on Marshmallow while the Galaxy is on Nougat but I enjoy the performance.

Well, when you've owned the Moto and the Tab for 3 years instead of just 1, do come back and let us know how they're running.

I have learnt from my experience though. My Pro 2017 stays on iOS 10 because it does what I need and does it smoothly with great 2-3 day battery life. That’s what matters. Not some new design with even more graphical wizardry sprinkled throughout the OS to slow down what I use the device for.

Okay then. You still don't like all this upgrade business. Understood. My devices run really well, all are updated. Sorry you're unlucky with your tech.
 
  • Like
Reactions: I7guy

Radon87000

macrumors 604
Nov 29, 2013
7,777
6,255
The thread is just going to devolve into bickering . It’s nice you guys aren’t having problems with your device but as far as I am concerned planned obsolescence is not disproven simply because it happens on my personal devices as I go through more and more upgrades. I also know many people using an older iPhone and they don’t mind it if WhatsApp or Facebook takes 3-4 seconds to load although personally it would annoy me so that strategy doesn’t even seem to work on everyone. By 2020 I will eat my hat if the 7 Plus I own doesn’t start taking 3 seconds to load a sinple menu. As it is I am not satisfied with the way it runs iOS 11. It requires regular charging at 2-3PM everyday and the performance is not on the level of iOS 10.

I really appreciate the fact that Microsoft and Google give users a choice in this regard whatever the argumentative reasons be and I will be back to give those a try as a side device once Google gets their display issues fixed. I don’t know about the Mac but at least on Windows I can downgrade the laptop quite easily using the inbuilt tool. And Windows is not as much of a fragmented market so that’s a plus for Microsoft.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Puddled

Puddled

macrumors 6502a
Jun 9, 2017
548
602
Seriously what do you need 300Mb?

The speeds on these Devices are down to the speed of the network or WiFi that you’re on. Should not matter at all on the Device

I can get the same speeds on my parents WiFi that my dad gets on his note 8. Which is 220Mb. Should make no difference

It’s like people are picking at flaws for the sake of moaning


reading this (BGR i know) would suggest that Apple are indeed hobbling radios to align lowest component performances
http://bgr.com/2017/09/22/iphone-8-models-att-vs-verizon-speed/

Now, i ain't no expert, but i would think that having a component perform as best it can, rather than just good enough, is a fair complaint and one with real world consequences.

My 2.0 150BHP MPV can cruise at 100mph.
My 1.2 85BHP Mini can cruise at 100mph.

They are both capable of 100mph, but with very different experiences and consequences!

 
Last edited:
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.