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Michael Goff

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Jul 5, 2012
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I like how some people are throwing out the "what about Apple" defense. Guess what? I don't care how Apple does it. I'm using a Note8 that's not gotten an update since September 25. At the rate it's going, it'll be two months between updates.

Unacceptable. The Note8 is get worse support that the S8 and I'm reading "but Apple...."
 

jamezr

macrumors P6
Aug 7, 2011
16,074
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I don't know if the nature of the security threats to iOS are the same as Android. Apple seems to respond pretty quickly to anything considered immediate or grave. Due to Android's very nature, and the fact that so many devices in the wild run old(er) versions of the OS, I'm guessing the nature and impact of the security threats to ANdroid require immediate upkeep.

I've said this before though: I don't know why most of the folks posting here really care about OS upgrades. They seem to buy new devices every year, if not every few months.
I think the security threats are pretty even as this graphic shows......
BUT....Android has more phones running older versions that are susceptible to the threats.

screen-shot-2017-08-03-at-2.43.30-pm-100730861-large.jpg
 

widgeteer

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Jun 12, 2016
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Because it gives people something to complain about! And, the uncertainty of updates for whatever reason is a weakness of Android vs. iOS. I don't see that changing anytime soon.

ohhhh yes. I think this smartphone season has been one of the absolute best, most interesting in a long time. One HR of a device after another. Yet nothing but threads filled with the most petty complaints about great devices.
[doublepost=1510336233][/doublepost]
I think the security threats are pretty even as this graphic shows......
BUT....Android has more phones running older versions that are susceptible to the threats.

screen-shot-2017-08-03-at-2.43.30-pm-100730861-large.jpg

Sure, but I don't know if the *nature* of the threats in question are the same. I don't know if it's a 1:1.
 

jamezr

macrumors P6
Aug 7, 2011
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ohhhh yes. I think this smartphone season has been one of the absolute best, most interesting in a long time. One HR of a device after another. Yet nothing but threads filled with the most petty complaints about great devices.
[doublepost=1510336233][/doublepost]

Sure, but I don't know if the *nature* of the threats in question are the same. I don't know if it's a 1:1.
Agreed about the 1to1. But we never hear about the response to the IOS threats from Apple.
 

KingslayerG5

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Oct 16, 2017
1,254
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Control Center needs work. I was at the Apple Store (Brea) just 10 min ago ready for them to shut up and take my money. They said silver X is sold out. So I try Control Center. It's a pretty big turn off for me.

I need five toggles on display at all times - Mobile Data, Location Services, Hotspot, Wi-Fi, and Bluetooth. It only gives me four and I can't customize it. You can hold that area and open up more options but it isn't as fluid to do.

I'm not here to bash the iPhone X. I really, really want it. But man, iOS needs work with their toggles. I even went to Settings to see if I can pick which toggles to see and it gives me nothing I need for work. Why separate toggles from lockscreen messages in the first place?

I feel Apple is too prideful to copy Android but if it's a dead platform like webOS that the masses forgot about or don't know, it's ok for them to rip off. Just copy Android. It's fine, Apple. I'm now just waiting for another Essential price drop to under $300. I can see it go under $300 before Christmas.
 
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widgeteer

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Jun 12, 2016
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Control Center needs work. I was at the Apple Store (Brea) just 10 min ago ready for them to shut up and take my money. They said silver X is sold out. So I try Control Center. It's a pretty big turn off for me.

I need five toggles on display at all times - Mobile Data, Location Services, Hotspot, Wi-Fi, and Bluetooth. It only gives me four and I can't customize it. You can hold that area and open up more options but it isn't as fluid to do.

I'm not here to bash the iPhone X. I really, really want it. But man, iOS needs work with their toggles. I even went to Settings to see if I can pick which toggles to see and it gives me nothing I need for work. Why separate toggles from lockscreen messages in the first place?

I feel Apple is too prideful to copy Android but if it's a dead platform like webOS that the masses forgot about or don't know, it's ok for them to rip off. Just copy Android. It's fine, Apple. I'm now just waiting for another Essential price drop to under $300. I can see it go under $300 before Christmas.

They've copied Android and vice versa. They just ultimately have a different design philosophy than Android, and have in mind a different user experience. I'm not suggesting "you're using it wrong" but I think you and others need to accept that iOS is inherently different than Android for a reason. And maybe, just maybe. all the things you want are available, just not with iOS.
 

I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
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Oh I agree with most of what you said.....Most of the Android core apps are updated through the Playstore so they are OS upgrade agnostic if you will.
Google publishes the security bulletins and what is being patched monthly.
Apple doesn't do this....
When vulnerabilities are found Apple usually doesn't address those issues right away....they just patch then during their normal cycles.
It depends on the vulnerability. I believe Apple used some patches in iOS 10 specifically for some vulnerabilities; and if memory serves iOS 11 as well.
 

Radon87000

macrumors 604
Nov 29, 2013
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I dont care about updates if they slow my phone down. I would take performance over features any day. Even with Pixel, Google gives a choice to downgrade the OS which is not possible with iPhone. You are trapped if you dont like a particular release
 

jamezr

macrumors P6
Aug 7, 2011
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I dont care about updates if they slow my phone down. I would take performance over features any day. Even with Pixel, Google gives a choice to downgrade the OS which is not possible with iPhone. You are trapped if you dont like a particular release
That is always big thing with IOS......the big updates slow previous model devices down. There has been enough evidence and people reporting this for years now here on MR and elsewhere
 

I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
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Gotta be in it to win it
That is always big thing with IOS......the big updates slow previous model devices down. There has been enough evidence and people reporting this for years now here on MR and elsewhere
Except it’s always a mixed bag. My 5s is faster to use with iOS 11 than iOS 10. But to each their own ymmv.
 

Hanson Eigilson

macrumors regular
Sep 19, 2016
222
217
Google's stock Android Phone app feels like it's from the present current day, fresh and up to date with current software and technology, and the iOS Phone app feels stuck in 2007.

I recall when I had the iPhone 7 Plus earlier this year, and coming from mainly stock Android nexus or OnePlus phones before that, I found the iOS Phone app to be extremely frustrating to use, and navigate around, it took more clicks, more fumbling to get around the iOS Phone app, compared to stock Android's. That's not an opinion, but fact.
I absolutely agree, on my iphone i find that i cannot talk while i look up a contact it just requires too much cognitive load and i cant keep attention on the actual conversation (feel free to call me stupid lol), handling many contacts feels incredibly ancient and hamfisted compared to android. Maybe it is part of a general lack of focus on effective interfaces and clean cut style on IOS i'm not sure.
 

I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
35,156
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Gotta be in it to win it
That is always big thing with IOS......the big updates slow previous model devices down. There has been enough evidence and people reporting this for years now here on MR and elsewhere
While at the same time, enough people claim that apple always does better in it's updates and that the next big release is faster than the previous outgoing release.
 

Puddled

macrumors 6502a
Jun 9, 2017
548
602
Except that this very recent study proved this untrue and that it’s a generally a false perception by users.

This **** really boils my onions.

Critical thinking seems to dead amongst the modern generations.


The researchers found that there was some very minor fall in the performance of the phones' CPU over time. But that change was tiny


Nobody ever has said the the hardware of iphones slows over time. That is not the point, apple know this, the shill doing the research knows this and i suspect anyone with the faintest idea of the issues knows this.

The point is the the "User experience " slows down over time. This is 100% true and is deliberate by apple.

Apple hobbles its old hardware by hitting it with new software designed for the newer more powerful iphones.


Deliberately.
 
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widgeteer

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This **** really boils my onions.

Critical thinking seems to dead amongst the modern generations.





Nobody ever has said the the hardware of iphones slows over time. That is not the point, apple know this, the shill doing the research knows this and i suspect anyone with the faintest idea of the issues knows this.

The point is the the "User experience " slows down over time. This is 100% true and is deliberate by apple.

Apple hobbles its old hardware by hitting it with new software designed for the newer more powerful iphones.


Deliberately.

Complete nonsense. Performance differences between chipsets year over year is minimal, and Apple didn't increase RAM in it's devices until recently. The hardware in the 8/X over the 7 is negligible.

All user experience slows down over time as developers create more resource intensive apps. The extent it slows down depends on so many factors. The "Apple forces obselence" theory is one of the dumber ones that keep getting regurgitated.
 
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Radon87000

macrumors 604
Nov 29, 2013
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Except that this very recent study proved this untrue and that it’s a generally a false perception by users.
I dont know what the point of that study was. Of course the benchmark score of the CPU will remain same. Its not indicative of real world use though. The iPhone 6 benches the same on iOS 11 as it did on iOS 8. But its slowed down considerably since then but those scores dont reflect it
 

I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
35,156
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Gotta be in it to win it
I dont know what the point of that study was. Of course the benchmark score of the CPU will remain same. Its not indicative of real world use though. The iPhone 6 benches the same on iOS 11 as it did on iOS 8. But its slowed down considerably since then but those scores dont reflect it
Opening and closing apps serially is not real world use either. Benching the same means that “planned obsolescence “ is a myth and is more real world that app opening and closing.
 

Radon87000

macrumors 604
Nov 29, 2013
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Opening and closing apps serially is not real world use either. Benching the same means that “planned obsolescence “ is a myth and is more real world that app opening and closing.

You don’t need to open and close apps to realise this. The settings menu takes 3 damn seconds to launch on iOS 11. It’s so slow that even after loading if you quickly scroll down, it takes another second before the apps list on it loads and the icons on it as well. The camera app takes 3 seconds as well. That’s how pathetic it’s become.

No ones every claimed Apple is artificially limiting hardware inside a phone to force people to upgrade. It’s always been to not optimise the OS for older devices and the lack of optimisation results in a slower phone.

Apple runs the same graphical effects on its older devices with the same intensity as it does on the newer ones. The blur in iOS 11 is very demanding to render for older phones because the icons are retained in the background and they are blurred on top of that. There was no necessity to enable this effect for a 3 year old phone but they did it anyway which results in stuttering all over the place.

Every Apple device I have owned and upgraded does this. No apps or any videos needed. Just open the settings or open the browser, tap on the address bar and see how long it takes for the keyboard to pop up. Planned obsolescence does exist.
 
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Puddled

macrumors 6502a
Jun 9, 2017
548
602
Complete nonsense. Performance differences between chipsets year over year is minimal, and Apple didn't increase RAM in it's devices until recently. The hardware in the 8/X over the 7 is negligible.

All user experience slows down over time as developers create more resource intensive apps. The extent it slows down depends on so many factors. The "Apple forces obselence" theory is one of the dumber ones that keep getting regurgitated.

You didn't read my post properly and in doing so, prove my point.

....Apple says the Bionic is 25% faster than the A10...

Yet apple slap the same ios 11 developed for the 8 and X onto the 7.
And the 6S
And the 6.....

See whats happening?

It's a clever and subtle trick from apple.
 

I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
35,156
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Gotta be in it to win it
You don’t need to open and close apps to realise this. The settings menu takes 3 damn seconds to launch on iOS 11. It’s so slow that even after loading if you quickly scroll down, it takes another second before the apps list on it loads and the icons on it as well. The camera app takes 3 seconds as well. That’s how pathetic it’s become.

No ones every claimed Apple is artificially limiting hardware inside a phone to force people to upgrade. It’s always been to not optimise the OS for older devices and the lack of optimisation results in a slower phone.

Apple runs the same graphical effects on its older devices with the same intensity as it does on the newer ones. The blur in iOS 11 is very demanding to render for older phones because the icons are retained in the background and they are blurred on top of that. There was no necessity to enable this effect for a 3 year old phone but they did it anyway which results in stuttering all over the place.

Every Apple device I have owned and upgraded does this. No apps or any videos needed. Just open the settings or open the browser, tap on the address bar and see how long it takes for the keyboard to pop up. Planned obsolescence does exist.
It always helps to mention the device you are having issues with sp the forum doesn't play "where's waldo" with what device you are referring to.

And with that said let's be clear, on your idevices the settings app takes 3 seconds to open. On my ipad 2 it takes about 3 seconds. On my 5s, instant, 6s instant, 7 instant, 6s+ instant.

Graphical effects on don't seem to make much of a difference, but I turn them off because I dislike them. If I could turn off every effect like I do in windows, I would be happy. And there is not stuttering "all over the place as you put it". Still in the same spots however, such as cellular menu.

In short, my iphones above the 5s are fine. I no longer have the 6 as that was met with a bad fate on concrete, replaced by the 7, running great on ios 11. All of my phones are running great on ios 11.

Planned Obsolescence is a reality in a lot of peoples minds. But so is the Loch Ness monster.
[doublepost=1511101020][/doublepost]
Yet apple slap the same ios 11 developed for the 8 and X onto the 7.
And the 6S
And the 6.....

See whats happening?

It's a clever and subtle trick from apple.
Yes, I do see. I see screamingly fast benchmarks where it matters. And I see apple somehow cramming more features in to the operating system but not killing the phones performance.

Is that the "clever and subtle" trick from apple you were referring to?
 

Radon87000

macrumors 604
Nov 29, 2013
7,777
6,255
You didn't read my post properly and in doing so, prove my point.



Yet apple slap the same ios 11 developed for the 8 and X onto the 7.
And the 6S
And the 6.....

See whats happening?

It's a clever and subtle trick from apple.
Exactly and add on top of that they don’t enable downgrade support. If you don’t like a particular iOS you can’t downgrade. You are trapped. I want to downgrade to iOS 10 on my 7 Plus. The battery life has halved since iOS 10. Not possible. I am going to end up paying a 100 bucks on the battery next year considering the amount of charging I do on it throughout the day. I want to downgrade my iPhone 6 to iOS 8 and make it a usable device. Not possible.

I ain’t falling for that now though. After seeing iOS 11’s battery drain and lags, I kept my iPAD Pro on iOS 10. You don’t really lose much as almost all apps require iOS 9 or later.

Never buy a device today for what it can become tomorrow. Buy it for what it is today.
 
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Puddled

macrumors 6502a
Jun 9, 2017
548
602
I7guy said:
Yes, I do see. I see screamingly fast benchmarks where it matters. And I see apple somehow cramming more features in to the operating system but not killing the phones performance.

Is that the "clever and subtle" trick from apple you were referring to?

I don't understand your response. You have completely ignored my point and instead have just repeated your own?
 

I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
35,156
25,262
Gotta be in it to win it
I don't understand your response. You have completely ignored my point and instead have just repeated your own?
Isn't my response to your point, the same point you have been repeating also said in different ways? As apple has now been following the same pattern for at least 7 years. That is not a new or clever trick.
 
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