Is the Apple TV dead ????

[MagnusVonMagnum]

But the Apple TV 4 is archaic. Is there any other major box that hasn't already been playing 4K content for some time now? The last few years Apple has been selling yesterdays technology at tomorrows prices. I applaud them for being able to get away with that but I doubt that will last if they don't get back on track soon.
I always purchase movies, never rent. Today that is about 90% digital vs 10% disc. You don't need to side load anything on Roku. Between apps and private apps nothing compares. If somebody ever makes something better I'd be happy to switch, I have no brand loyalty. Of course if kodi or jail breaking/ side loading is your thing there are hundreds of cheap android boxes for those people.

I thought I mentioned I use FireTV 4K + Kodi (I'm testing Embry with it right now as well). I haven't bought an AppleTV since Gen2. I keep it around connected to a separate DAC on my analog preamp based system just to be sure I don't get skips (Kodi has some odd music issues they refuse to address; it's a reason I'm testing Embry right now). I did read an Embry App is available for Roku so you might have a way to play your own media library, after all with it.

 

[GizmoDVD]

But the Apple TV 4 is archaic. Is there any other major box that hasn't already been playing 4K content for some time now? The last few years Apple has been selling yesterdays technology at tomorrows prices. I applaud them for being able to get away with that but I doubt that will last if they don't get back on track soon.
I always purchase movies, never rent. Today that is about 90% digital vs 10% disc. You don't need to side load anything on Roku. Between apps and private apps nothing compares. If somebody ever makes something better I'd be happy to switch, I have no brand loyalty. Of course if kodi or jail breaking/ side loading is your thing there are hundreds of cheap android boxes for those people.

The amount of people who have a 4k TV and available 4K services is slim. why does it matter?

 

[MagnusVonMagnum]

The amount of people who have a 4k TV and available 4K services is slim. why does it matter?

PROVE IT. I'm tired of hearing this lame BS argument. You're living in 2014 or something. Half the people I know are buying new TVs because they're DIRT CHEAP and they're nearly ALL 4K now.

 

[George Dawes]

so what 4k sources are they using ???

 

[tanfan]

so what 4k sources are they using ???

About all of them. Besides UHD discs, Roku has 20 apps with 4K content. Can you even buy a 1080p tv anymore? All the major streaming devices have gone 4K long ago.

https://channelstore.roku.com/browse/4k-uhd-content-available

 

[George Dawes]

until it hits mainstream satellite and terrestrial broadcasting i really don't see the point

probably why apple haven't bothered bringing out a version

not many itunes 4k movies are there ???

 

[tanfan]

until it hits mainstream satellite and terrestrial broadcasting i really don't see the point

probably why apple haven't bothered bringing out a version

not many itunes 4k movies are there ???

Satelite/cable have 4K channels. They are on their way out though. As far as terrestrial broadcasting, If your waiting for that, don't hold your breath. All the major digital providers have 4K content, except itunes which answers the question, why. Apple has been behind on everything the last few years. Eventually itunes, and Apple TV wil go 4K and Apple fans will pronounce, this was the perfect time, good job Apple!

 

[Spankey]

Let's see. I can get 4K from Directv, 4K UHD Blu-ray Disc and 4K movies with Dolby Vision from VUDU. Amazon, Netflix and Hulu offer a large amount of content in 4K with HDR. YouTube content is also available in 4K HDR. The argument that there is no content is as old as who need Blu-ray. No one has HDTV's. Yeah, right!

 

[bluespark]

Let's see. I can get 4K from Directv, 4K UHD Blu-ray Disc and 4K movies with Dolby Vision from VUDU. Amazon, Netflix and Hulu offer a large amount of content in 4K with HDR. YouTube content is also available in 4K HDR. The argument that there is no content is as old as who need Blu-ray. No one has HDTV's. Yeah, right!

Even the iPhone (etc.) can shoot 4K video. And nearly every "nice" television above, say, 55" is 4K capable. There are plenty of ways to get and consume 4K content except on the Apple TV.

Still, I'd trade all of that for a decent remote, lossless audio passthrough, etc. The lack of 4K may not be the worst problem with the ATV4.

 

[MagnusVonMagnum]

Satelite/cable have 4K channels. They are on their way out though. As far as terrestrial broadcasting, If your waiting for that, don't hold your breath. All the major digital providers have 4K content, except itunes which answers the question, why. Apple has been behind on everything the last few years. Eventually itunes, and Apple TV wil go 4K and Apple fans will pronounce, this was the perfect time, good job Apple!

The sad sad part is that not only are they behind everyone else on just about everything (from amoled screens to wireless/fast charging, to modern port standards on their phones to gaming support structures to touchscreen access to 4K playback (odd their tiny phone can record it but their AppleTV can't play it on a BIG 4K screen), BUT they charge SO MUCH MORE than everyone else for what they DO offer!!! FireTV4K is $99 and about $79 on sale (regularly). AppleTV Gen4 (where 4 does NOT stand for 4K) is $150-200 and it cannot play back Amazon Prime or 4K video!!! You're paying more for less! That seems to be STANDARD for Apple lately.

The difference in the past was you paid more for Apple but it was a BETTER COMPUTER/PHONE/GADGET than nearly everyone else so it was worth it to some of us. Now it's only worth it to those that think a BMW is always better (because it says I'm higher class than you even when it's not true) than a Ford or Subaru no matter what.

 

[tanfan]

The sad sad part is that not only are they behind everyone else on just about everything (from amoled screens to wireless/fast charging, to modern port standards on their phones to gaming support structures to touchscreen access to 4K playback (odd their tiny phone can record it but their AppleTV can't play it on a BIG 4K screen), BUT they charge SO MUCH MORE than everyone else for what they DO offer!!! FireTV4K is $99 and about $79 on sale (regularly). AppleTV Gen4 (where 4 does NOT stand for 4K) is $150-200 and it cannot play back Amazon Prime or 4K video!!! You're paying more for less! That seems to be STANDARD for Apple lately.

The difference in the past was you paid more for Apple but it was a BETTER COMPUTER/PHONE/GADGET than nearly everyone else so it was worth it to some of us. Now it's only worth it to those that think a BMW is always better (because it says I'm higher class than you even when it's not true) than a Ford or Subaru no matter what.

I agree. They are generally selling yesterday's technology (the cheapest kind) at the highest prices. They are a company for profit so what a great position for them when people buy anyway! Until Apple fans stop apologizing for them and stop buying they will continue....why wouldn't they?
[doublepost=1494162905][/doublepost]‘Sheeple’ is now in the dictionary, and Apple users are the example

https://www.theverge.com/tldr/2017/...erriam-webster-sheeple-definition-iphone-ipad

 

[kiranmk2]

I think this is the key mismatch in what Apple says and what it does now. With the Mac, they have ditched USB-A, SD, HDMI, Ethernet etc in favour of USB-C - a next gen standard that is only just rolling out (and not that well supported yet). They hail the Macs as being forward looking. The AppleTV doesn't support 4K, let alone HDR, DTS, Dolby Atmos/DTS-X - a standard that's been around for several years and has seen widespread adoption. Why is the Mac so forward looking while the AppleTV isn't even present looking?

 

[Marshall73]

Apple TV is great unless you want to stream pirate streams, in that case buy a fire tv stick or android box for kodi. Apple TV in the UK will have everything once Amazon allow a prime to app for it as it already has Netflix and Now TV etc. The new law changes in the UK have made streaming pirate feeds a bit more dicey as you could potentially be served up with a 10 year jail term. That law plus the previous internet privacy law (isp's have to record all website visits) opens a whole new can of worms over the next few years.

 

[MagnusVonMagnum]

I think this is the key mismatch in what Apple says and what it does now. With the Mac, they have ditched USB-A, SD, HDMI, Ethernet etc in favour of USB-C - a next gen standard that is only just rolling out (and not that well supported yet). They hail the Macs as being forward looking. The AppleTV doesn't support 4K, let alone HDR, DTS, Dolby Atmos/DTS-X - a standard that's been around for several years and has seen widespread adoption. Why is the Mac so forward looking while the AppleTV isn't even present looking?

There's a very simple answer. It's called iTunes and it's $$$$$$$ for Apple to sell you EVERYTHING from iTunes and make it 100% incompatible with everything else due to Fairplay DRM. Want to get rid of AppleTV and move to FireTV and have a lot of iTunes movies? Good luck. You can't play them on Kodi unless you remove the DRM somehow. Requiem used to do this quite nicely, but it only ever worked in Snow Leopard and older versions of iTunes. It still does work, but as of January, Apple no longer sends 1080p to older iTunes versions (only 720p now despite whatever setting you select) so it's not as useful as it once was even if you have a setup (say in VMWare) to use it. Lock you into their ecosystem and they have you. The more you spend on iTunes the less likely you are to EVER leave Apple the rest of your life (or theirs). Fortuantely, I got rid of all my DRM while the getting was good and moved on to FireTV and Kodi.

On the down side, the Kodi devs generally treat everyday users like garbage and don't care if things like skips in music occur over networks because they don't care about anything but whatever they feel like doing. I'm sure that's not THAT different from Apple either except for the fact that music has played back flawlessly on AppleTV since 2007 and Kodi STILL can't do it right unless it's locally attached (maybe it just doesn't like Mac servers?). But then AppleTV traditionally wouldn't allow any other formats (AVI, MKV, FLAC, etc.) and they never even put back features it once did have (e.g. AppleTV Gen1 had full album artwork forever before Gen2/3/4 had any kind of solution. Gen1 could play DTS music since it had flawless 44.1kHz output while newer models cannot even output 44.1kHz (the CD Standard!!!) PERIOD which makes it anti-High end audio even with Apple Lossless in use since it always has to turn it into 48kHz (and that kills any DTS signal, etc. encoding in the process). Kodi depends on the hardware you're using, but it generally will output anything the hardware will allow. I've also since discovered something (an addon) called CinemaVision that lets you sequence any number of ads, intros, trailers, cartoons, THX bumpers, etc. to play before the movie starts making it feel almost exactly like a real movie theater (assuming your playback screen is large enough). You can't do that on AppleTV evne with something like MrMC installed since it won't take plugins/add-ons. You CAN get full Kodi on there, but you have to have a developer account and they aren't free and expire every year. That's an expensive way to use Kodi on AppleTV....

Apple TV is great unless you want to stream pirate streams, in that case buy a fire tv stick or android box for kodi. Apple TV in the UK will have everything once Amazon allow a prime to app for it as it already has Netflix and Now TV etc. The new law changes in the UK have made streaming pirate feeds a bit more dicey as you could potentially be served up with a 10 year jail term. That law plus the previous internet privacy law (isp's have to record all website visits) opens a whole new can of worms over the next few years.

AppleTV is not that great (no Amazon player yet and it will never have 4K output with the current hardware). Pirating has nothing to do with it for most of us (I don't use any illegal streaming).

 

[melchior]

there will be a new ATV soon.

 

[Grasbak]

for UK users: for what it's worth I tweeted ITV, channel 4 & 5 back in Feb to ask if they had plans for an app. ITV said "under review", Channel 4 said "on our todo list", no answer from Channel 5. Don't know if it would help but maybe the more that ask the more chance there is....

 

[kemperman]

for UK users: for what it's worth I tweeted ITV, channel 4 & 5 back in Feb to ask if they had plans for an app. ITV said "under review", Channel 4 said "on our todo list", no answer from Channel 5. Don't know if it would help but maybe the more that ask the more chance there is....

I too tweeted ITV C4 & C5

No response from ITV or C5

got this tweet from All4 so there is hope

 

[Topfry]

I too tweeted ITV C4 & C5

No response from ITV or C5

got this tweet from All4 so there is hope

Ive never managed to get a reply from any of them.
I really think Apple should be lobbying them to put their apps on the tv; for uk users this circle of catchup services should be a baseline provided on a UK streaming box, especially if Apple want customers to be using the atv as a first port of call.
The apps that we do have (Now/Netflix) could do with improvement, and although we seem to get occasional updates - nothing seems to change. Why do we still not have the tv app? Why does iplayer not have a favourites section, (my 5 yr old tv does, surely the atv has better resources)? Why does Now tv lose the series list when you complete an episode, why does Netflix have such a confusing ui etc etc? The whole experience needs polish and more integration.
Before a 4k version is released the software in the current version needs a push, and im sure a more international focus; and whilst i understand that apps are the responsibility of third parties, there seems to be no momentum to make a quality unified experience.

 

[arobert3434]

In my case I don't have a big problem with the lack of 4K, since when we moved to our new house a few months ago and installed a projector, 4K was still too pricey anyway (it cost about $4K for entry-level 4K ;-}). We went for 1080p. And we bought an ATV3 since we're not gamers and it didn't seem like there was a point to go for the 4, which had fewer video apps, worse audio out support, no better video, and, at the time, only white UI. We'll see once projector prices come down in a few years whether there is a 4K ATV then, and what its focus is.

 

[MagnusVonMagnum]

In my case I don't have a big problem with the lack of 4K, since when we moved to our new house a few months ago and installed a projector, 4K was still too pricey anyway (it cost about $4K for entry-level 4K ;-}). We went for 1080p. And we bought an ATV3 since we're not gamers and it didn't seem like there was a point to go for the 4, which had fewer video apps, worse audio out support, no better video, and, at the time, only white UI. We'll see once projector prices come down in a few years whether there is a 4K ATV then, and what its focus is.

Epson has a "pseudo" 4K projector for around $2500. It uses a trick not totally dissimilar to interlacing to get 4K worth of pixels on the screen at a speed that your eyes thinks its seeing 4K. Call it 4K Lite. I'm extremely tempted to replace my aging 720p projector with it as it also supports simulated Panavision (i.e. you can use a 2.35:1 screen with it and it can automatically store settings to switch to it automatically. The down side is it weighs over 24 pounds and my current mount is using toggle bolts with an 11 pound projector and I'm thinking I'd have to cut into the ceiling and reinforce it to be sure with that much weight. Epson makes a nice 1080p 3D project that only weighs around 14 pounds for $1100 or so that would save me money (I don't have any 4K films at the moment, so Netflix is the only use I'd get for awhile and there's still no way to rip 4K blurays to store them on a hard drive system and I hate the idea of going back to discs instead of a nice whole house server system. At 93 inches at 11 feet, I can see slightly better than 1080p supposedly, but at 2.35:1 with 117 inches, it would definitely be noticeably improved (same height screen, but wider).

 

[arobert3434]

...

(I don't have any 4K films at the moment, so Netflix is the only use I'd get for awhile and there's still no way to rip 4K blurays to store them on a hard drive system and I hate the idea of going back to discs instead of a nice whole house server system. At 93 inches at 11 feet, I can see slightly better than 1080p supposedly, but at 2.35:1 with 117 inches, it would definitely be noticeably improved (same height screen, but wider).

Yeah, that's the other rub. Netflix's selection has its hits and misses, and more often than not when we are looking for a high-quality or recent movie we have to go to iTunes, which I guess doesn't have 4K yet. BTW we went from 480p to 1080p on the projector and that was a massive difference. 720 to 1080 would be less but I imagine still quite noticeable.

 

[colodane]

To really get the most out of Netflix consider a DVD subscription. Most all of the recent movies show up there LONG before they do on the streaming service, and many of them never are streamed at all. Also, an order of magnitude more good recent foreign films and documentaries on DVD that we really enjoy. We have had the DVD service (single one at a time) for many years and just recently added the streaming service which, in my opinion, is drastically inferior.

One recent change to the DVD service which has made it a much better value is the new agreement between Netflix and the US Postal service. Netflix used to wait until they actually received a DVD before sending you a new one. Now, as soon as the DVD you send back is scanned at the USPS Netflix counts it as "returned". This cuts at least one day out of the turnaround time. Their big regional warehouses also helps the turnaround. We often can now receive 8 or 9 DVDs per month.

 

[Led-zep]

Lack of content...Netflix, Amazon prime, YouTube, 4k discs and even the bloody iPhone itself!

4K TVs make up the majority of tv sales now - in Australia its ~80% 4K tv sales. So yeah most people will own or have one within the year!

There is no excuse for apple not to include 4k into the ATV5 they already have products that support the format - iPhone, iPad and iMac 4K/5K.

It's embarrassing for a company to have a phone that shoots in 4K but you can't watch it on their own media player. Pathetic imo.

 

[Spankey]

To really get the most out of Netflix consider a DVD subscription. Most all of the recent movies show up there LONG before they do on the streaming service, and many of them never are streamed at all. Also, an order of magnitude more good recent foreign films and documentaries on DVD that we really enjoy. We have had the DVD service (single one at a time) for many years and just recently added the streaming service which, in my opinion, is drastically inferior.

One recent change to the DVD service which has made it a much better value is the new agreement between Netflix and the US Postal service. Netflix used to wait until they actually received a DVD before sending you a new one. Now, as soon as the DVD you send back is scanned at the USPS Netflix counts it as "returned". This cuts at least one day out of the turnaround time. Their big regional warehouses also helps the turnaround. We often can now receive 8 or 9 DVDs per month.

Not anymore. Digital release dates are averaging a week or two ahead of the physical copy. iTunes HD quality is very close to Blu Ray in most cases that most users won't be able to tell the difference. Yes, I'm someone with a 110" projector and 4k OLED. VUDU HDR streaming is even better. There is less and less a reason to won physical media.

I dropped my Blu-ray sub to Netflix and never looked back.

 

[andrewstirling]

I'm done with Apple TV now. Bought an Nvidia shield instead. My reasons were that it could play HDR, 4k, pass through True HD and DTS HD master audio. Output of movies at 24fps was the other biggie. People can go on all they want about 4k not being mass market but the bottom line is, there is no compelling reason to go for the Apple TV ahead of its competitors. And to be honest, not being able to pass through Hd audio or output at 24fps is unforgivable. It's actually a pretty big sign that they don't care. Hopefully sales figures will be the wake up call Apple need to make changes for the next generation.