Is the Apple TV dead ????

[MagnusVonMagnum]

I agree. I don't see the point of a smart TV. I'd rather have a box like the Apple TV which can do more.

How exactly is 1080p "more" than 4K? Do you want to play Rayman Adventures or something?

The current standard is 1080p. In time 4K will be the standard but we are to there yet.

The current standard of WHAT, exactly? 1999 HDTV? In other words, 4K already is a standard! I just bought a 1080P 3D projector instead of a 4K set (since I have a 93" screen in my home theater and that's upgraded from 720p and current true 4K projectors still cost $8000+ with no real lens shift), but I would never tell someone with a 4K set that they should have to watch a box that can't do 4K just because over 50% of all people on the planet haven't adopted it yet or some other nonsensical idea of what makes a "standard." I personally think 4K resolution is utterly pointless on most consumer sets at typical viewing distances (i.e. you can't tell 4K from 1080p on a 55" set 15 feet away....), BUT the new HDR and Wide Color Gamut modes are absolutely distinguishable at virtually ANY distance and in some ways more impressive than the resolution increase (even with my 93" screen at 10 feet, it would only be around 20-25% sharper with a 4K projector at 20/20 vision at best).

Some studios (e.g. Sony) are also playing dirty tricks by only including Dolby Atmos meta data with 4K Blu-Rays or Ultra HD Streaming from places like Vudu despite the fact regular Blu-Ray can handle Atmos just fine (any streaming service with Dolby Digital Plus support including Apple could include it for that matter, but don't count on it any time soon with Apple because they don't support jack squat on AppleTV. The company with the eye for the future (under Jobs) seems to think the equivalent of 640k ought to be enough for anybody when it comes to Home Theater and High Definition. It's not just sad. It's actually quite PATHETIC, IMO particularly when you consider a FireTV 4K is $89 (compared to Apple's $149 and $199) and has full 4K support plus open side-loading (without having to be a certified developer) and an SD Card port and a fully operational USB port for local hard drives. I threw a 128GB SD Card in mine and dumped my AAC music library on it (network server doesn't even have to be on to listen to my music and with it on, I have lossless available along with my entire video and photo libraries in virtually any format) plus lots of room for Kodi thumbnails and still have many GB let over. Some hardware for Kodi can even handle full 3D hardware decoding (once ripped/stored, you wouldn't ever even have to touch a Blu-Ray for 2D or 3D yet MKV can handle Dolby TrueHD with Atmos and M4V can store DTS (AppleTV won't see it, but Kodi will). Where's Apple? They're too busy worrying about whether you should be able to run an ad blocker on an iPhone to be concerned with State of the Art Home Theater.....

 

[Shanghaichica]

How exactly is 1080p "more" than 4K? Do you want to play Rayman Adventures or something?



The current standard of WHAT, exactly? 1999 HDTV? In other words, 4K already is a standard! I just bought a 1080P 3D projector instead of a 4K set (since I have a 93" screen in my home theater and that's upgraded from 720p and current true 4K projectors still cost $8000+ with no real lens shift), but I would never tell someone with a 4K set that they should have to watch a box that can't do 4K just because over 50% of all people on the planet haven't adopted it yet or some other nonsensical idea of what makes a "standard." I personally think 4K resolution is utterly pointless on most consumer sets at typical viewing distances (i.e. you can't tell 4K from 1080p on a 55" set 15 feet away....), BUT the new HDR and Wide Color Gamut modes are absolutely distinguishable at virtually ANY distance and in some ways more impressive than the resolution increase (even with my 93" screen at 10 feet, it would only be around 20-25% sharper with a 4K projector at 20/20 vision at best).

Some studios (e.g. Sony) are also playing dirty tricks by only including Dolby Atmos meta data with 4K Blu-Rays or Ultra HD Streaming from places like Vudu despite the fact regular Blu-Ray can handle Atmos just fine (any streaming service with Dolby Digital Plus support including Apple could include it for that matter, but don't count on it any time soon with Apple because they don't support jack squat on AppleTV. The company with the eye for the future (under Jobs) seems to think the equivalent of 640k ought to be enough for anybody when it comes to Home Theater and High Definition. It's not just sad. It's actually quite PATHETIC, IMO particularly when you consider a FireTV 4K is $89 (compared to Apple's $149 and $199) and has full 4K support plus open side-loading (without having to be a certified developer) and an SD Card port and a fully operational USB port for local hard drives. I threw a 128GB SD Card in mine and dumped my AAC music library on it (network server doesn't even have to be on to listen to my music and with it on, I have lossless available along with my entire video and photo libraries in virtually any format) plus lots of room for Kodi thumbnails and still have many GB let over. Some hardware for Kodi can even handle full 3D hardware decoding (once ripped/stored, you wouldn't ever even have to touch a Blu-Ray for 2D or 3D yet MKV can handle Dolby TrueHD with Atmos and M4V can store DTS (AppleTV won't see it, but Kodi will). Where's Apple? They're too busy worrying about whether you should be able to run an ad blocker on an iPhone to be concerned with State of the Art Home Theater.....

Because it's what most people view on their TVs. Most people don't have 4K capable TV's yet. 4K is still niche when it comes to the wider population.

I didn't say that 1080p was more than 4K.

 

[Surf Boy from Barcelona]

These are mere excuses. There's absolutely no reason Apple TV shouldn't have been made 4k HDR capable more than a year ago. It's simply ridiculous that I can record 4k on my iPhone but can't stream it to Apple TV.

I bought an LG OLED last year and have found I just never use my Apple TV anymore, save for the odd viewing of vacation photos or something. The built-in apps are stable and perfectly capable. Yeah, I get there isn't a ton of 4k HDR content yet available but that's rapidly changing, and when you spend a bunch of cash on a flagship TV, you wanna see it to its full potential NOW, not in some future where content is more ubiquitous.

As far as I'm concerned, Apple TV is a dead platform until it's capable of displaying the current standard.
[doublepost=1500704028][/doublepost]
Perhaps, but they do render the Apple TV nearly useless, assuming they're 4k HDR.

Apple TV will never be a dead platform for people like me who love to buy their films from iTunes and AirPlay content from their iPhones and use HomeSharing from their Macs. If anything, the Apple TV has everything going for it Luckily, I don't spend eight hours a day watching the TV, just 30 minutes a day and for me, the Apple TV is perfect. It compliments my iTunes, MacBook and iPhone just beautifully.
WiFi is so unreliable throughout the world that I'm concerned about 4K streaming!
[doublepost=1500723016][/doublepost]

How exactly is 1080p "more" than 4K? Do you want to play Rayman Adventures or something?



The current standard of WHAT, exactly? 1999 HDTV? In other words, 4K already is a standard! I just bought a 1080P 3D projector instead of a 4K set (since I have a 93" screen in my home theater and that's upgraded from 720p and current true 4K projectors still cost $8000+ with no real lens shift), but I would never tell someone with a 4K set that they should have to watch a box that can't do 4K just because over 50% of all people on the planet haven't adopted it yet or some other nonsensical idea of what makes a "standard." I personally think 4K resolution is utterly pointless on most consumer sets at typical viewing distances (i.e. you can't tell 4K from 1080p on a 55" set 15 feet away....), BUT the new HDR and Wide Color Gamut modes are absolutely distinguishable at virtually ANY distance and in some ways more impressive than the resolution increase (even with my 93" screen at 10 feet, it would only be around 20-25% sharper with a 4K projector at 20/20 vision at best).

Some studios (e.g. Sony) are also playing dirty tricks by only including Dolby Atmos meta data with 4K Blu-Rays or Ultra HD Streaming from places like Vudu despite the fact regular Blu-Ray can handle Atmos just fine (any streaming service with Dolby Digital Plus support including Apple could include it for that matter, but don't count on it any time soon with Apple because they don't support jack squat on AppleTV. The company with the eye for the future (under Jobs) seems to think the equivalent of 640k ought to be enough for anybody when it comes to Home Theater and High Definition. It's not just sad. It's actually quite PATHETIC, IMO particularly when you consider a FireTV 4K is $89 (compared to Apple's $149 and $199) and has full 4K support plus open side-loading (without having to be a certified developer) and an SD Card port and a fully operational USB port for local hard drives. I threw a 128GB SD Card in mine and dumped my AAC music library on it (network server doesn't even have to be on to listen to my music and with it on, I have lossless available along with my entire video and photo libraries in virtually any format) plus lots of room for Kodi thumbnails and still have many GB let over. Some hardware for Kodi can even handle full 3D hardware decoding (once ripped/stored, you wouldn't ever even have to touch a Blu-Ray for 2D or 3D yet MKV can handle Dolby TrueHD with Atmos and M4V can store DTS (AppleTV won't see it, but Kodi will). Where's Apple? They're too busy worrying about whether you should be able to run an ad blocker on an iPhone to be concerned with State of the Art Home Theater.....

Problem is how many people actually buy a 'state of the art home theatre' these days. Very very few. People I know are having beautiful lives travelling, being outdoors and socialising with friends. They are not sat at home watching a home theatre. Not a chance!

 

[Shockwave78]

Networks still broadcast in 1080i and 720p for live tv. Live tv still dominates the market by a huge margin and will most likely continue this trend. This is what sets the standards for the “1999” HDTV standards you mention. Apple is targeting the largest market, not the smallest. In 1999 we did not have the bandwidth that we do now. 90% of people were still using 56k dial up connections and the the only other options were ISDN/DSL in limited areas. Although around 1999 set the new tv standard the internet had to play catch-up and is still trying to almost 20 years later...

4K tv’s will upscale the 1080 content to 4K. Of course it’s not as good as true 4K content but it fills the screen and still looks good. I am watching it now as I type. If I want 4K content I just use the built in apps on the tv that have 4K capable apps. But you know, that’s a couple extra button presses...

 

[Uofmtiger]

Roku is not in trouble because of Smart Tvs, Smart Tvs are overrated.

I use the smart features on my Samsung much more often than the Roku. They do the same things, for the most part, so if you own a smart TV, not much reason to go buy a Roku. I have the Roku 4 and rarely ever use it. Also, the Nvidia Shield does Amazon and Vudu, but does a lot more.

A lot of overlap in this part of the market. At least Nvidia does games to set it apart and Appletv has the huge advantage of the Apple ecosystem. I don’t think I will ever buy another Roku. The horrendous huge ad on the main “Home” interface makes it uglier than just using the app built into the TV. I wouldn’t own a Roku 4 right now if the Shield had beat it to market.

 

[johannnn]

Love my 4th gen TV, way better than my smart TV. And it also have support for my Apple Music, games etc.
When the 5th gen releases I will likely buy a new TV that supports 4K.
But at the moment there is not enough 4K material anyway, so it has never been a problem that my 4th gen only supports 1080.

 

[robotica]

Apple needs to get out there and make some deals or provide some kind of insensitive to the on demand apps in the uk to get them on the platform.

If Apple want people to spend 3x the price of a fire tv stick that's has all the on demand channels they need to provide some kind of valid reason for people to buy one in the uk, they haven't done that.

 

[Bazooka-joe]

Until Apple bring Amazon on board all I use my ATV for my own movies. I ripped my dvds and placed them in photos and stream them from the cloud. That works brilliantly but it's all I use ATV for

 

[Uofmtiger]

Love my 4th gen TV, way better than my smart TV. And it also have support for my Apple Music, games etc.
When the 5th gen releases I will likely buy a new TV that supports 4K.
But at the moment there is not enough 4K material anyway, so it has never been a problem that my 4th gen only supports 1080.

I prefer the Appletv for the same reason even though my Smart TV is 4K. The Apple ecosystem is a huge advantage. Unfortunately, the Roku doesn’t have that advantage...plus the advertising on the home page, which I mentioned above, should be mentioned before you buy one. Amazon sells their Kindles with and without “special offers”...Roku should do the same or put a warning on the box that you will continue paying for the Roku by seeing advertising every time you use it. I can’t imagine the blow back Apple would have if they took up half the home screen with huge ads.

 

[JoeSixPack]

I recently bought a Sony 4K TV and it's based on Android TV: It has apps available for Plex, Amazon Prime (4K), Netflix (4K), and iPlayer, ITV Hub, 4OD and Demand 5 (basically all the main services in the UK except Now TV). It's also got built in Chromecast and (obviously) supports the Play Movies and TV app

By comparison, the Apple TV is a wasteland and I'm finding I use it less and less: Unfortunately, if the providers choose not to support the platform, there's not much Apple can do about it!

I concur with Phil. Since I only have time for Netflix, what is the use case for adding an Apple TV when my TV or DVD player can handle Netflix by itself?

 

[danny842003]

I concur with Phil. Since I only have time for Netflix, what is the use case for adding an Apple TV when my TV or DVD player can handle Netflix by itself?

For me it's that my TV (Samsung UHD) apps crash regular and the TV itself seems to drop wifi connection. It's not isolated to this TV either my sister in law has the same model and experiences the same issues

 

[Shanghaichica]

For me it's that my TV (Samsung UHD) apps crash regular and the TV itself seems to drop wifi connection. It's not isolated to this TV either my sister in law has the same model and experiences the same issues

My mum has a samsung smart TV and wifi connection is very spotty. To be honest It's not worth using imo.

 

[Uofmtiger]

For me it's that my TV (Samsung UHD) apps crash regular and the TV itself seems to drop wifi connection. It's not isolated to this TV either my sister in law has the same model and experiences the same issues

I have a Samsung, but I use wired Ethernet and it works great. I mainly use it for YouTube since the Appletv’s app is not my favorite.

As a side note, a 4K signal is a much heavier weight on a Wi-Fi setup. Quite often, Wi-Fi is the problem and not the actual product being reviewed. I see AirPlay (which is a small weight in comparison) often getter bad reviews because of dropped signals, but I have a very stable Wi-Fi setup and never have a drop out with AirPlay. The Samsung may not automatically scale down a signal when it is too much for your network to handle, while other apps will. Anyway, my main point is that it is unfair to judge Wi-Fi drop outs on a product that is simply passing through a bad signal.

 

[danny842003]

I have a Samsung, but I use wired Ethernet and it works great. I mainly use it for YouTube since the Appletv’s app is not my favorite.

As a side note, a 4K signal is a much heavier weight on a Wi-Fi setup. Quite often, Wi-Fi is the problem and not the actual product being reviewed. I see AirPlay (which is a small weight in comparison) often getter bad reviews because of dropped signals, but I have a very stable Wi-Fi setup and never have a drop out with AirPlay. The Samsung may not automatically scale down a signal when it is too much for your network to handle, while other apps will. Anyway, my main point is that it is unfair to judge Wi-Fi drop outs on a product that is simply passing through a bad signal.

To be honest it seems to drop when it's not using 4K also. My Foxtel subscription is only 1080 and it's no better.

 

[Uofmtiger]

To be honest it seems to drop when it's not using 4K also. My Foxtel subscription is only 1080 and it's no better.

As I said, people have problems Airplaying mp3 files, so even 1080p is a monster in comparison. I would recommend using Ethernet with video unless you have a very stable, fast Wi-Fi system. I may run mine on Wi-Fi just to test it with my Orbis, but it is flawless with Ethernet.

If the Wi-Fi receiver in the Samsung is an issue, you could use something like an Airport Express (there are most likely better options out there now) to pull in the signal and make it available to the Samsung. I don’t believe the Samsung’s Wi-Fi receiver is the issue, but I will test it when I get a chance. Typically, the culprit is the user’s Wi-Fi system.

 

[danny842003]

As I said, people have problems Airplaying mp3 files, so even 1080p is a monster in comparison. I would recommend using Ethernet with video unless you have a very stable, fast Wi-Fi system. I may run mine on Wi-Fi just to test it with my Orbis, but it is flawless with Ethernet.

If the Wi-Fi receiver in the Samsung is an issue, you could use something like an Airport Express (there are most likely better options out there now) to pull in the signal and make it available to the Samsung. I don’t believe the Samsung’s Wi-Fi receiver is the issue, but I will test it when I get a chance. Typically, the culprit is the user’s Wi-Fi system.

Well I don't have issues with other devices even in the same room. I can stream to my ipad/mac/appleTV no problem.
As I said my sister in law has the same issues, Ethernet just isn't an option to be honest. Although we are building a house currently in which I am having Ethernet located in TV points.

 

[Uofmtiger]

Well I don't have issues with other devices even in the same room. I can stream to my ipad/mac/appleTV no problem.
As I said my sister in law has the same issues, Ethernet just isn't an option to be honest. Although we are building a house currently in which I am having Ethernet located in TV points.

Switched my TV to Wi-Fi. I have been streaming “Around the world in 4K” without issues for about 30 minutes. I will leave it on Wi-Fi for a week and see how it goes. I suspect the culprit is your Wi-Fi (which is the usual suspect for these type of issues) but we shall see.

 

[danny842003]

Switched my TV to Wi-Fi. I have been streaming “Around the world in 4K” without issues for about 30 minutes. I will leave it on Wi-Fi for a week and see how it goes. I suspect the culprit is your Wi-Fi (which is the usual suspect for these type of issues) but we shall see.

Without knowing what model I have or the fact the common issue is the TV two households. Lol ok....

 

[MagnusVonMagnum]

Apple TV will never be a dead platform for people like me who love to buy their films from iTunes and AirPlay content from their iPhones and use HomeSharing from their Macs.

I used to do those things. It's more or less dead to me. $200 and no 4K when FireTV has 4K for $89 with full side-loading of Kodi? The heck on AppleTV unless it improves.

The problem with all digital online sales is that due to encryption you're generally stuck with the service you bought it from. If they go out of business or ditch their service because it's no longer selling, tough crap. You just lost your entire library and all that money. Frack that. You're far better off buying Blu-Rays. Other than 4K, you can rip/encode and have a full 1080p (or any resolution you want below that for mobile or whatever) digital copy and/or backup and use it with iTunes, Kodi or whatever you want that will let you add your own library. Hell, most Blu-Rays these days come with a digital copy anyway (either Ultraviolet or iTunes or in about half the studios either/or both) so you have both.

I just picked up Ghostbusters (2016) Ultra 4K set for $15 on sale. It includes the 4K Ultra BD, the 3D BD, the 2D BD and a digital copy (of both the theatrical and unrated films on Ultraviolet/Vudu). All the discs have DTS HD-Master Audio 5.1 and the 4K disc has 7.1 channel DolbyTrueHD + Dolby Atmos (height encoding). If it weren't from Sony, it probably would have included the iTunes version too (like getting all the rest FREE). Even so, I can use MakeMKV + Handbrake to make M4V versions for iTunes of BOTH versions of the films and even hide a DTS track (even HD-MA) in the files that Kodi can use but iTunes will ignore.

What do you get for $15 on iTunes??? You get the extended version only in 1080p/720p with Dolby Digital 5.1 (at much higher compression rates for the video). That's it. WTF would I or anyone want to buy it from iTunes???

Get yourself an external USB3 BD drive (I got one from Memorex for $50 about 4 years ago) and your Mac can handle Blu-Ray just fine (there's even software players if you want to watch a BD directly from your Mac. Just because Steve Jobs saw dollar signs when decided to not support BD at the OS (or include a player) level doesn't mean it doesn't work on a Mac.

Problem is how many people actually buy a 'state of the art home theatre' these days. Very very few. People I know are having beautiful lives travelling, being outdoors and socialising with friends. They are not sat at home watching a home theatre. Not a chance!

I guess you weren't including yourself in that bit about having friends and socializing, etc. since you just said that's exactly what you do and yet the people you "know" wouldn't be caught watching a movie. Personally, I find all that hard to believe. I travel as much as I can (e.g. I went to Europe for 5 weeks last year plus a half week in London, but I do have a job so I can't darn well do it all year long.) Besides, inviting friends over for a barbecue in the back yard + 3D movie in my 93" projector based 6.1 home theater afterwards sounds like a form of socializing to me....

 

[Uofmtiger]

Without knowing what model I have or the fact the common issue is the TV two households. Lol ok....

People are making a general point that the Samsung 4K TVs aren’t good with Wi-Fi. I spent hours streaming from YouTube, often in 4K tonight without issue. Yes, you may have a dud for a TV, but my Samsung has worked flawlessly with Wi-Fi so far.

Typically, issues like yours are related to your Wi-Fi or internet speeds and not the actual device that needs decent Wi-Fi to work properly. As I said, I have seen this type of complaint about AirPlay for years. When I have been able to convince people to update their routers or fix issues where two devices are using the same address, their problems magically go away. Obviously, this is a separate issue, but if I was betting money, it would be on the idea that the problem is your Wi-Fi setup and not the TV.

 

[Kes.Siebring]

I only use AppleTV as a client for Plex Server.

 

[danny842003]

People are making a general point that the Samsung 4K TVs aren’t good with Wi-Fi. I spent hours streaming from YouTube, often in 4K tonight without issue. Yes, you may have a dud for a TV, but my Samsung has worked flawlessly with Wi-Fi so far.

Typically, issues like yours are related to your Wi-Fi or internet speeds and not the actual device that needs decent Wi-Fi to work properly. As I said, I have seen this type of complaint about AirPlay for years. When I have been able to convince people to update their routers or fix issues where two devices are using the same address, their problems magically go away. Obviously, this is a separate issue, but if I was betting money, it would be on the idea that the problem is your Wi-Fi setup and not the TV.

Why would the wifi only be an issue for the TV? Why would my iPad Pro, iPad mini,mac,iPhone,apple TV even my PS4 be able to stream just fine if it was the wifi?

 

[Uofmtiger]

Why would the wifi only be an issue for the TV? Why would my iPad Pro, iPad mini,mac,iPhone,apple TV even my PS4 be able to stream just fine if it was the wifi?

It could be sharing an iP Address with something on the network that is kicking it off. It is placed in a spot that something is interfering with the signal, your TV has a broken part, Samsung requires a stronger wifi signal than Apple or Sony, etc.

These people think their PS4 has an issue:
https://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/691087-playstation-4/68835513

These people think their Mac Pro has an issue:

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/5571621?tstart=0

These people think their iPad has an issue:

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/4886511?tstart=0

Impossible for me to say why your TV can't get a proper signal, but I can stream 4k over wifi for hours without an issue with a Samsung TV. Therefore, you can't simply say that Smart TVs don't work consistently. You can simply say that you have an issue and the reason for the issue has not been identified.

As I have said, people say the same thing about Airplay and yet a lot of people use it without issue. The problem is usually the network, but you could have something broken in your TV or the model or your specific TV is a dud...just like someone may own a broken Airport Express. I can't really say.

 

[jthesssin]

For me it's that my TV (Samsung UHD) apps crash regular and the TV itself seems to drop wifi connection. It's not isolated to this TV either my sister in law has the same model and experiences the same issues

Yep! I love my Samsung Plasma, but the constant WiFi dropouts, and the continuous "App will be removed" notices is annoying. My AppleTV is the heart of my home theater as well! In the process of purchasing all my DVD's on iTunes, up to 277 now, with only 300 more to go! If Apple TV went away, and support dropped off, I would probably dump Apple TBH... for the casual games, the streaming from almost all services (HURRY UP PRIME!) and the Airplaying, its almost perfect

 

[throAU]

apple tv = airplay box...