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epicrayban

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Nov 7, 2014
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If Apple gave him every thing he wanted it would no longer be an iPhone and would ultimately alienate current iPhone customers.

Please elaborate. Exactly which improvements to iOS that I've suggested would alienate the current iPhone customers?

Here, I'll provide a rough write up of what I've been hoping for in future iOS and iPhone updates. Again, just a brief rundown to save time, but here goes:

Software

1) A more consistent back navigation system. Sometimes back is a button in the upper right corner, sometimes upper left, sometimes center of screen, sometimes it's lower left. Sometimes you can swipe backwards, sometimes you cannot.

2) More organized and consistent Settings menu. Sometimes I have to access an app's settings in the main iOS Settings menu. Sometimes it's within the app itself. Frustrating when I'm not sure and go to the wrong place.

3) Less obnoxious security measures. Large (not even that large, really) app files can only be downloaded via WiFi. Same for OS updates. What if I have unlimited data? And if I don't, what if my data allotment has refreshed at the top of the month? What if I'm nowhere near a WiFi signal but need/want an app now? Other annoying security measures: Sometimes fingerprint scan is all that's needed to pay for an app purchase. Sometimes it needs my password. Ditto the lock screen. Most of the time, fingerprint scanner gets me in. Other times, it'll ask me for my pin as an extra security measure.

4) A bit more customization. For example, why can't I swap out and re-order what toggles I want in Control Center? What if I never use Airplay? What a waste of space then. Ditto 3D Touch. Why can't there be a setting that shows me a list of what 3D Touch commands I can set for a particular app? What if I don't ever take selfies with my camera; can't the 3D Touch shortcut for the camera app be changed to something I would prefer to launch directly into instead?

5) Improve the keyboard. When will gesture-typing (a lovely one handed feature) ever make its way to iOS? They allow third party keyboards, but once again, it's an inconsistent experience. Sometimes the iOS keyboard forces itself back in for security purposes. Why aren't my third party keyboard choices actually set as default? This ties into the unnecessary security measures (when was the last time Swype or Swiftkey accused of keyboard logging?).

6) Allow us to set default apps overall. They allow it in the keyboard (sort of), why not more?


What of these software features are going to "alienate" current iPhone users? If they don't want to set other third party defaults, what's preventing them from using their iPhones just "stock" straight out of the box? How exactly does adding these software features suddenly mean the old ways are gone? Please elaborate.



I'll keep hardware short:

1) Would love to see a better design in the iPhone 7. I think the 6/6S generation's antennae lines are unsightly and break up the otherwise nice flow of the one piece aluminum. Currently, the lines make an odd design statement and frames the devices strangely. Would love a better screen to body ratio, too.

2) Quick charge & Wireless charging. Lovely conveniences. Again, please elaborate on how adding wireless charging will alienate current iPhone users. Why can't they continue using the Lightning connector as they please if they don't buy into wireless charging?

3) Waterproofing would be nice. Oh no, so many iPhone users will be so alienated by this.


Same question as before: How are these hardware suggestions going to "alienate" current fans?



Besides, don't we always praise Apple for being so focused and measured in how they implement new ideas and features? Don't we always praise how patient they are until they've got it "right" before releasing stuff? How much more focusing do they need to do to add some of these simple features? And why don't you trust Apple to get it done in a way that won't alienate their base?

Even for complicated additions, doesn't Apple hold classes at the hundreds of Apple stores around the world? All the time I'm there, I see lines and huge groups of people in sessions with an Apple tech person learning how to use their phones, tablets, and macs. Why isn't this something they can do for any complicated new feature? You think EVERY iPhone user has understood EVERY new feature Apple's implemented in the past? Then why do these classes exist?

I'm going to call you out on this and other false assumption that the more we want new iOS features, the more it'll just "become Android" or "alienate the user base" or "that's clearly not what the user base wants." Etc. It's all essentially the same argument.

How is adding features going to mean the same iPhone users can't continue using the iPhone the same way out of the box that they're used to? The same arguments have been made time and time again; No one wants big iPhones. Who wants a device you can't hold and operate in one hand? Pssh.


So, please elaborate.

Looking forward to your response.
 

gotluck

macrumors 603
Dec 8, 2011
5,717
1,260
East Central Florida
The only reason they got into the iPhone 6 was because the father had his fingerprint already registered on the phone, he just didn't have the pin.

You do realize that?
Or perhaps your being obtuse.

but the device was restarted therefore requiring the pin, how did they get around that?

the fingerprint does not decrypt the device, only PIN.. they are not equal
 
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FFR

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Please elaborate. Exactly which improvements to iOS that I've suggested would alienate the current iPhone customers?

Here, I'll provide a rough write up of what I've been hoping for in future iOS and iPhone updates. Again, just a brief rundown to save time, but here goes:

Software

1) A more consistent back navigation system. Sometimes back is a button in the upper right corner, sometimes upper left, sometimes center of screen, sometimes it's lower left. Sometimes you can swipe backwards, sometimes you cannot.

2) More organized and consistent Settings menu. Sometimes I have to access an app's settings in the main iOS Settings menu. Sometimes it's within the app itself. Frustrating when I'm not sure and go to the wrong place.

3) Less obnoxious security measures. Large (not even that large, really) app files can only be downloaded via WiFi. Same for OS updates. What if I have unlimited data? And if I don't, what if my data allotment has refreshed at the top of the month? What if I'm nowhere near a WiFi signal but need/want an app now? Other annoying security measures: Sometimes fingerprint scan is all that's needed to pay for an app purchase. Sometimes it needs my password. Ditto the lock screen. Most of the time, fingerprint scanner gets me in. Other times, it'll ask me for my pin as an extra security measure.

4) A bit more customization. For example, why can't I swap out and re-order what toggles I want in Control Center? What if I never use Airplay? What a waste of space then. Ditto 3D Touch. Why can't there be a setting that shows me a list of what 3D Touch commands I can set for a particular app? What if I don't ever take selfies with my camera; can't the 3D Touch shortcut for the camera app be changed to something I would prefer to launch directly into instead?

5) Improve the keyboard. When will gesture-typing (a lovely one handed feature) ever make its way to iOS? They allow third party keyboards, but once again, it's an inconsistent experience. Sometimes the iOS keyboard forces itself back in for security purposes. Why aren't my third party keyboard choices actually set as default? This ties into the unnecessary security measures (when was the last time Swype or Swiftkey accused of keyboard logging?).

6) Allow us to set default apps overall. They allow it in the keyboard (sort of), why not more?

What of these software features are going to "alienate" current iPhone users? If they don't want to set other third party defaults, what's preventing them from using their iPhones just "stock" straight out of the box? How exactly does adding these software features suddenly mean the old ways are gone? Please elaborate.


I'll keep hardware short:

1) Would love to see a better design in the iPhone 7. I think the 6/6S generation's antennae lines are unsightly and break up the otherwise nice flow of the one piece aluminum. Currently, the lines make an odd design statement and frames the devices strangely. Would love a better screen to body ratio, too.

2) Quick charge & Wireless charging. Lovely conveniences. Again, please elaborate on how adding wireless charging will alienate current iPhone users. Why can't they continue using the Lightning connector as they please if they don't buy into wireless charging?

3) Waterproofing would be nice. Oh no, so many iPhone users will be so alienated by this.

How are these hardware suggestions going to "alienate" current fans?

Besides, don't we always praise Apple for being so focused and measured in how they implement new ideas and features? Don't we always praise how patient they are until they've got it "right" before releasing stuff? How much more focusing do they need to do to add some of these simple features? And why don't you trust Apple to get it done in a way that won't alienate their base?

Even for complicated additions, doesn't Apple hold classes at the hundreds of Apple stores around the world? All the time I'm there, I see lines and huge groups of people in sessions with an Apple tech person learning how to use their phones, tablets, and macs. Why isn't this something they can do for any complicated new feature? You think EVERY iPhone user has understood EVERY new feature Apple's implemented in the past? Then why do these classes exist?

I'm going to call you out on this and other false assumption that the more we want new iOS features, the more it'll just "become Android" or "alienate the user base" or "that's clearly not what the user base wants." Etc. It's all essentially the same argument.

How is adding features going to mean the same iPhone users can't continue using the iPhone the same way out of the box that they're used to? The same arguments have been made time and time again; No one wants big iPhones. Who wants a device you can't hold and operate in one hand? Pssh.

So, please elaborate.

Looking forward to your response.


What iPhone are you currently using?
 

epicrayban

macrumors 604
Nov 7, 2014
6,517
5,353
What iPhone are you currently using?

I sold my iPhone 6 which was my daily driver for some time. Currently using an iPhone 5S for work. Own an iPad 3 as well, if you care to know. Plenty of people around me both at home and at work own an iPhone 6S. I can easily get access to one if you need me to in order to prove your point. Also on Jump on Demand with Tmobile. Can easily upgrade to the iPhone 7 if I choose to. I'd love to return to the iPhone some day for the few obvious advantages it still has.

So, please elaborate on how my suggestions and wishes for iOS will alienate current iPhone users.
[doublepost=1460665863][/doublepost]Ya know what's going to alienate users?

Removing the 3.5 headphone jack.

Switching the charging port to Lightning connectors (goodbye old speaker docks!).

Removing CD drives back in the day from iMacs (I'm aware this is a mac example).

Yeah, Apple's has no history of "alienating" users. :rolleyes: People adopted to these things. I'd argue, these are at far greater risk of alienating users than a single thing I suggested in my wishlist for the iPhone.
 
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FFR

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I sold my iPhone 6 which was my daily driver for some time. Currently using an iPhone 5S for work. Own an iPad 3 as well, if you care to know. Plenty of people around me both at home and at work own an iPhone 6S. I can easily get access to one if you need me to in order to prove your point. So, please elaborate on how my suggestions and wishes for iOS will alienate current iPhone users.

Software wise, by making it more convoluted.


Hardware wise.
I actually like the antenna lines and the protruding camera lenses, makes no difference in my life or to the majority of customers.

Waterproofing actually affects speaker quality.

An edge display would hinder user experience.

An amoled with a pentile matrix just irks me.
I tried a s7 edge and prefer apples lcd display to Samsung's pentile matrix.

The only thing I'm clamoring for is a higher res display. If Apple manages to make the iPhone thinner, I'm picking up three iPhone 7 plus at launch.


Regarding the keyboard, Microsoft just released a one handed keyboard for iOS. I don't know if it's gesture based or not.


I actually have a 50gb a month contract, but I only use wifi to download large files, the lte modem would use substantially more battery to download large files especially if your in a spotty coverage.

Regarding security, Touch ID 2 solves much of what is irking you. The 5s unfortunately is a three year old phone.
 

epicrayban

macrumors 604
Nov 7, 2014
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Software wise, by making it more convoluted.


Hardware wise.
I actually like the antenna lines and the protruding camera lenses, makes no difference in my life or to the majority of customers.

Waterproofing actually affects speaker quality.

An edge display would hinder user experience.

An amoled with a pentile matrix just irks me.
I tried a s7 edge and prefer apples lcd display to Samsung's pentile matrix.

The only thing I'm clamoring for is a higher res display. If Apple manages to make the iPhone thinner, I'm picking up three iPhone 7 plus at launch.


Regarding the keyboard, Microsoft just released a one handed keyboard for iOS. I don't know if it's gesture based or not.


I actually have a 50gb a month contract, but I only use wifi to download large files, the lte modem would use substantially more battery to download large files especially if your in a spotty coverage.

Regarding security, Touch ID 2 solves much of what is irking you. The 5s unfortunately is a three year old phone.


@tbayrgs -- Are you an owner of the iPhone 6S? Touch ID 2 solves the inconsistencies of the fingerprint security for App Store purchases and unlocking your phone? I've heard you complaining about similar things to me before about inconsistent fingerprint experience. Are you also on an older iPhone?

Regardless... @FFR -- Sorry, but nothing in your response suggests to me that iPhone users will be alienated by the addition of a single thing from my wishlist. The software features would be convoluted? Again, even if true, why can't less capable users or just users who don't care to customize... why can't they just use the iPhone as is out of the box? Do you seriously think every iPhone owner uses EVERY single feature Apple releases? Why can't new features exist alongside old features without alienating people? I don't understand this fear.

Hardware... waterproofing muffles speakers. Eh, sure. A bit. But to the point where it'll alienate iPhone users? I ask again: elaborate.

Edge display will hinder user experience; fair, but where did I say in my wishlist for an edge display? Amoled will irk you; again, how is this going to alienate iPhone users because it irks you? And again, when did I say in my wishlist that I want an Amoled display???

Are you going to actually stand by your statement and answer any of my questions?
 
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FFR

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I sold my iPhone 6 which was my daily driver for some time. Currently using an iPhone 5S for work. Own an iPad 3 as well, if you care to know. Plenty of people around me both at home and at work own an iPhone 6S. I can easily get access to one if you need me to in order to prove your point. Also on Jump on Demand with Tmobile. Can easily upgrade to the iPhone 7 if I choose to. I'd love to return to the iPhone some day for the few obvious advantages it still has.

So, please elaborate on how my suggestions and wishes for iOS will alienate current iPhone users.
[doublepost=1460665863][/doublepost]Ya know what's going to alienate users?

Removing the 3.5 headphone jack.

Switching the charging port to Lightning connectors (goodbye old speaker docks!).

Removing CD drives back in the day from iMacs (I'm aware this is a mac example).

Yeah, Apple's has no history of "alienating" users. :rolleyes: People adopted to these things. I'd argue, these are at far greater risk of alienating users than a single thing I suggested in my wishlist for the iPhone.


Sorry but Apple removing the the cd rom or replacing the 30 pin port connector to lightning didn't alienate many users, Apple actually gained more users because of the it.

I for one am welcoming the removal of the 3.5 inch connector if rumors hold true and Apple is going to introduce a hidef Lightning/Bluetooth headphones that incorporates built in dac, just like the ones Phillips had introduced for the iPhone 6s, bring it on.
 

Surf Donkey

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jamezr

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Yep and you have no data to prove yours either, got it. Nobody knows what the spy organizations can and can't do. Only a bunch of opinion pieces.
I have posted info to support my position...repeatedly so

That program was disclosed in Snowden documents reported on last year by The Guardian. A WARRIOR PRIDE plugin called NOSEY SMURF allowed spies to remotely and secretly activate a phone’s microphone. Another plugin, DREAMY SMURF, allowed intelligence agents to manage the power system on a phone and thus avoid detection. PARANOID SMURF was designed to conceal the malware in other ways. TRACKER SMURF allowed ultra-precise geolocating of an individual phone. “[If] its [sic] on the phone, we can get it,” the spies boasted in a secret GCHQ document describing the targeting of the iPhone.
https://theintercept.com/2015/03/10/ispy-cia-campaign-steal-apples-secrets/



aa827a97-1d33-49e4-a83d-6ff153a15ea2-1024x768.jpeg

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jan/27/nsa-gchq-smartphone-app-angry-birds-personal-data
[doublepost=1460667412][/doublepost]
What iPhone are you currently using?
What Android phone are you using?
 
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gotluck

macrumors 603
Dec 8, 2011
5,717
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I for one am welcoming the removal of the 3.5 inch connector if rumors hold true and Apple is going to introduce a hidef Lightning/Bluetooth headphones that incorporates built in dac, just like the ones Phillips had introduced for the iPhone 6s, bring it on.

the addition of those features is not dependent on the removal of the jack, which is why the 6s has those headphones now. The rumor is that the tradeoff there is for another speaker, for most people that is not worth it. but it is apple and it will sell and they will make more from more expensive licensed accessories so surely it will happen
 
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epicrayban

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Sorry but Apple removing the the cd rom or replacing the 30 pin port connector to lightning didn't alienate many users, Apple actually gained more users because of the it.

I for one am welcoming the removal of the 3.5 inch connector if rumors hold true and Apple is going to introduce a hidef Lightning/Bluetooth headphones that incorporates built in dac, just like the ones Phillips had introduced for the iPhone 6s, bring it on.

The point was, Apple is not unaccustomed to shaking things up with what their base is used to. You can't argue that everyone wasn't used to the 30 pin port, which was the standard for iPhone users for years. Think of all the extra wires, all kinds of docks and other accessories. But even despite that change, the iPhone went on and continued to be successful.

Yet if I -- gasp! -- say I would like Apple to allow me to customize what's in Control Center, oh no, that'll make the software "too convoluted" and will "alienate current iPhone users."

Please.
 
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FFR

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@tbayrgs -- Are you an owner of the iPhone 6S? Touch ID 2 solves the inconsistencies of the fingerprint security for App Store purchases and unlocking your phone? I've heard you complaining about similar things to me before about inconsistent fingerprint experience. Are you also on an older iPhone?

Regardless... @FFR -- Sorry, but none of your response suggests to me that iPhone users will be alienated by adding a single one of my wishlist. The software features would be convoluted? Again, why can't less capable users or just users who don't care to customize... why can't they just use the iPhone as is out of the box?

Hardware... waterproofing muffles speakers. Sure. But that'll alienate iPhone users? I ask again: elaborate. Edge display will hinder user experience; fair, but where did I say in my wishlist for an edge display? Amoled will irk you; again, how is this going to alienate iPhone users because it irks you? And again, when did I say in my wishlist that I want an Amoled display???

Why do they have to to satisfy just one user Vs thier installed user base. Most of the people complaining about customization buy android anyway, and most of them still own a secondary phone that's an iPhone.


Those were my points, that's why I prefaced it with "I", you have your points I have mine. Since I purchase at least 3 iPhones every launch, to Apple I wield a greater purchasing power then you do.

How will a muffled speaker alienate iPhone users, because it's muffled, that's why, speaker phone, listening to music and videos on the fly has much more utility than being water proof. Hell the iPhone 6s Plus is already water resort as is.


Again and that's your wish list not mine or the majority of iPhone users, if it were the s7 would have sold 12 million units in two days, oh wait no that was the iPhone, with all the deficiencies you mentioned.
 

FFR

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the addition of those features is not dependent on the removal of the jack, which is why the 6s has those headphones now. The rumor is that the tradeoff there is for another speaker, for most people that is not worth it. but it is apple and it will sell and they will make more from more expensive licensed accessories so surely it will happen

Another speaker and a thinner phone.
You can't say it's not worth, to me it is. And if it holds true to the majority of iPhone users, then it will sell, if not and you are right, iPhone users will take their money elsewhere. Simple as that.
 

gotluck

macrumors 603
Dec 8, 2011
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Another speaker and a thinner phone.
You can't say it's not worth, to me it is. And if it holds true to the majority of iPhone users, then it will sell, if not and you are right, iPhone users will take their money elsewhere. Simple as that.

the 6s is significantly thicker than the 3.5mm jack, I wager they cant make it so thin they cant fit it (there are already thinner phones with the jack). It is barely bigger than the lightning port. business decision IMO

why you talking about me being right? I think it will sell no matter what. Apple sells
 
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FFR

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The point was, Apple is not unaccustomed to shaking things up with what their base is used to. You can't argue that everyone was used to the 30 pin port, which was the standard for iPhone users for years. Think of all the extra wires, all kinds of docks and other accessories. But even despite that change, the iPhone went on and continued to be successful.

Yet if I -- gasp! -- say I would like Apple to allow me to customize what's in Control Center, oh no, that'll make the software "too convoluted" and will "alienate current iPhone users."

Please.


That's the definition of convoluted.
Gasp! just don't get an iPhone 7.
I think Apple has a better grasp of what their users want over just what epic ray ban is thirsting for.
 

FFR

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the 6s is significantly thicker than the 3.5mm jack, I wager they cant make it so thin they cant fit it (there are already thinner phones with the jack). It is barely bigger than the lightning port. business decision IMO

why you talking about me being right? I think it will sell no matter what


Apples iPod nano was around 5.8mm and had a 3.5 mm jack so it can be done. But perhaps there are trade offs that Apple engineers are more intimate with than either of us.

We will know more for sure in September.


Apologies probably misunderstood, it's 3 am in my current geographic time zone.
 

epicrayban

macrumors 604
Nov 7, 2014
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Why do they have to to satisfy just one user Vs thier installed user base. Most of the people complaining about customization buy android anyway, and most of them still own a secondary phone that's an iPhone.


Those were my points, that's why I prefaced it with "I", you have your points I have mine. Since I purchase at least 3 iPhones every launch, to Apple I wield a greater purchasing power then you do.

How will a muffled speaker alienate iPhone users, because it's muffled, that's why, speaker phone, listening to music and videos on the fly has much more utility than being water proof. Hell the iPhone 6s Plus is already water resort as is.


Again and that's your wish list not mine or the majority of iPhone users, if it were the s7 would have sold 12 million units in two days, oh wait no that was the iPhone, with all the deficiencies you mentioned.


Please stay on point to the topic we're discussing. You said, if Apple adds the things I want from my wishlist, it would alienate the current iPhone user base. I laid out some of my wishes to allow you to directly elaborate and explain.

So far, you've made a rather unconvincing argument for waterproofing, and you've just lumped all the software wishes under "convoluted" with little to no explanation. Then you added some of your own strawmans (AMOLED or Edge panels; none of those were on my list) and made arguments against those things. How fun.

When are you going to explain how the rest of my actual wish list will alienate users?
[doublepost=1460668605][/doublepost]
That's the definition of convoluted.
Gasp! just don't get an iPhone 7.
I think Apple has a better grasp of what their users want over just what epic ray ban is thirsting for.

Again, elaborate. How will adding the ability to customize Control Center alienate users? It's convoluted? How is something convoluted when it doesn't have to be used? Again, why can't your average iPhone user just continue using their brand new iPhone out of the box as is with whatever is in Control Center by default? Why can't they just continue using it just like that with no problem? How is the option to customize it "convoluted" when you don't need to even apply the feature if you don't want to?

I'm beginning to think you're just being obtuse. If you refuse to actually answer the question, then I guess there's not much else I can do.

@Truefan31, Remember your point about having honest discussions? Want to help me out here?
 
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navaira

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Samsung actually found out in the meantime what happens when you remove features people want. Now in S7 they brought them back and – oh my! – S7 is their best seller in years. We'll see Apple introducing "the most revolutionary invention in sound, ever... a 3.5mm headphone jack!!!" in iPhone 8s.
 
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FFR

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jamezr

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I have a vertu and an s7 edge in my office drawer collecting dust

Vertu I bought myself, the s7 was given to me by a Samsung executive. Any other questions.
yes...i do as a matter of fact....why don't you use the S7? Do us all favor...pull it out of the drawer and open it to this thread like this on my 6s+ and snap a photo of it with you iphone...
28713808c74affa0bd52626803ac00b2.jpg
 

FFR

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Please stay on point to the topic we're discussing. You said, if Apple adds some of the things I want from my wishlist, it would alienate the current iPhone user base. I laid out some of my wishes to allow you to directly elaborate and explain.

So far, you've made a rather unconvincing argument for waterproofing, and you've just lumped all the software wishes under "convoluted" with little to no explanation. Then you added some of your own strawmans (AMOLED or Edge panels; none of those were on my list) and made arguments against those things. How fun.

When are you going to explain how the rest of my actual wish list will alienate users?
[doublepost=1460668605][/doublepost]

Again, elaborate. How will adding the ability to customize Control Center alienate users? It's convoluted? How is something convoluted when it doesn't have to be used? Again, why can't your average iPhone user just continue using their brand new iPhone out of the box as is with whatever is in Control Center by default? Why can't they just continue using it just like that with no problem? How is the option to customize it "convoluted" when you don't need to even apply the feature if you don't want to?

I'm beginning to think you're just being obtuse. If you refuse to actually answer the question, then I guess there's not much else I can do.

@Truefan31, Remember your point about having honest discussions? Want to help me out here?

Convoluted, by adding an extra layer of complexity. It's not that difficult to follow.

I think your the one being obtuse.
Your acting like Apple owes you customization, they don't. If you want customization get an another device simple as that.

This thread is about the s7 being a threat to the iPhone as it stands, it doesn't. Your personal wish list is your own.

Regarding your use of the straw man fallacy, how is that any different than your personal wish list.

Pot calling the kettle black.
 

FFR

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yes...i do as a matter of fact....why don't you use the S7? Do us all favor...pull it out of the drawer and open it to this thread like this on my 6s+ and snap a photo of it with you iphone...
28713808c74affa0bd52626803ac00b2.jpg

Ok I will tomorrow when I get into the office would you like a picture of the box as well?
Smh.
 

jamezr

macrumors P6
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Ok I will tomorrow when I get into the office would you like a picture of the box as well?
Smh.
so why don't you use it if you have it? No need for the box...just opened to thread like i did mine....
smh.....
 
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