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jamezr

macrumors P6
Aug 7, 2011
16,077
19,075
US
Let's not get personal and keep it to the subject matter. For now I'll ignore the personal stuff and contribute it to internet chest thumping.

You only have a bunch of opinion pieces that say if this happens and if that happens than something else may happen. No doubt these phones can be gotten into. And the method that is used varies by model. And cellebrite has some neat tricks with limitations. But the ability to remotely hack these phones by using poisoned compilers as easily as drinking a glass of water is a pipe dream in someones mind.
To your first statement....where is the personal? If you feel that way report it.......
People can stick their head in the sand at things when they don't understand the complexities at hand. It is understandable. Dismissing proof just because someone just doesn't want to believe it is an alternative as well.

if you feel my proof is a pipe dream....then provide proof of your own......
 

Radon87000

macrumors 604
Nov 29, 2013
7,777
6,255
Let's not get personal and keep it to the subject matter. For now I'll ignore the personal stuff and contribute it to internet chest thumping.

You only have a bunch of opinion pieces that say if this happens and if that happens than something else may happen. No doubt these phones can be gotten into. And the method that is used varies by model. And cellebrite has some neat tricks with limitations. But the ability to remotely hack these phones by using poisoned compilers as easily as drinking a glass of water is a pipe dream in someones mind.
You haven't provided a shred of even remotely connected evidence proving the iPhone is unhackable while I showed you concrete proof of the iPhone 6 being nearly 100% compromised.Cellebrite charges hefty fees for to services.If they told e person they are optimistic of hacking it,they WILL hack it for a substantial fee
 

I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
35,158
25,268
Gotta be in it to win it
To your first statement....where is the personal? If you feel that way report it.......
People can stick their head in the sand at things when they don't understand the complexities at hand. It is understandable. Dismissing proof just because someone just doesn't want to believe it is an alternative as well.

if you feel my proof is a pipe dream....then provide proof of your own......
You and I agree on one thing. We could do this all day. Show me proof that today, that any specific iphone is hackable without being in physical possession of the device.
 

jamezr

macrumors P6
Aug 7, 2011
16,077
19,075
US
You and I agree on one thing. We could do this all day. Show me proof that today, that any specific iphone is hackable without being in physical possession of the device.
I have shown you countless proof....you choose to ignore it. Then come back with one line responses and then provide no refuting proof of your own.....you do not participate in the discussion instead choose to deflect and make baseless accusations.
 

epicrayban

macrumors 604
Nov 7, 2014
6,517
5,353
I've said people can discuss changes and what people want to see as improvements to them. I personally don't care about the lines. If you do or anyone else, so be it. I don't think anyone is wrong. Improvements typically come with any refresh of a device. If you like to see certain improvements, great. But that doesn't mean that if Apple isn't doing it to your liking, or at the speed you'd like to see, that suddenly the company itself is hurting and NEEDS to do anything. It looks like Apple is competing well by what I think matters in the end. If you disagree, cool.

Who said the company is hurting? This is not an "Apple is doomed" forecast. In fact, I say the complete opposite. That the Apple branding is still incredibly strong, that they continue to have successful sales and profits, that I still wouldn't bet against Apple at this point, etc.

No one is necessarily saying Apple needs to do anything. The issue is, some people feel Apple is resting on their laurels and on the strength of their brand. Think about it. What other company can get away with what Apple does? Nobody. The pace at which they compete is worth analyzing especially now in the face of increased competition. There's no question that Apple is losing ground on a number of different fronts. For sure hardware wise (which doesn't mean their hardware suddenly stinks, so please don't ignite that straw man) and in my opinion, also on the software side (others are reaching desktop like capabilities).

Don't we want to continue calling Apple the leader in the actual technology, instead of just the leader in sales/profits?

And this isn't just a few people here in forums. Various publications are beginning to say the same thing, some of which I've already linked to here in this thread. Do you disagree with them, too?

Does Apple have to listen to any of us? No, of course not. Will they continue to be successful if they continue doing what they're doing? Yeah, probably; who really knows. Didn't they just have a quarter that showed the first YOY loss or something? I don't remember the details, but wasn't it the first time it's ever happened? Does that concern you? And more importantly, is that really what it takes? For them to start seeing slowdown in sales and profits before we can have an honest discussion about where and how they can improve?

Please review my wishlist I posted a few pages back. Are those wishes really that contentious or outrageous that we have to keep doing this dance? Do people really have to keep responding to such discussions with "But millions of iOS users are just fine" or "Apple's sales clearly don't indicate these improvements are needed" or with straw mans like, "these changes will alienate current iPhone users" and on and on and on? Millions of Android users are fine, too, but that doesn't stop any of us from discussing where/how Google and Android can grow.

Wouldn't those improvements benefit everyone? Whether they actually need or want to use these features is up to them. That's the beauty of being able to make a phone your own. Apple just needs to give us the power to do so.
 
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The-Real-Deal82

macrumors P6
Jan 17, 2013
17,317
25,469
Wales, United Kingdom
You haven't provided a shred of even remotely connected evidence proving the iPhone is unhackable while I showed you concrete proof of the iPhone 6 being nearly 100% compromised.Cellebrite charges hefty fees for to services.If they told e person they are optimistic of hacking it,they WILL hack it for a substantial fee
Although the official line is that some data was extracted but not all and no percentage has been given from what I have seen. I couldn't care less though as none of my data on my phone is top secret enough lol.
 

I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
35,158
25,268
Gotta be in it to win it
I have shown you countless proof....you choose to ignore it. Then come back with one line responses and then provide no refuting proof of your own.....you do not participate in the discussion instead choose to deflect and make baseless accusations.
You haven't shown anything except a few articles that say things are possible; that's "countless" proof? I think not. Sorry who's deflecting?
 

Blaze4G

macrumors 65816
Oct 31, 2015
1,300
1,177
Who said the company is hurting? This is not an "Apple is doomed" forecast. In fact, I say the complete opposite. That the Apple branding is still incredibly strong, that they continue to have successful sales and profits, that I still wouldn't bet against Apple at this point, etc.

No one is necessarily saying Apple needs to do anything. The issue is, some people feel Apple is resting on their laurels and on the strength of their brand. Think about it. What other company can get away with what Apple does? Nobody. The pace at which they compete is worth analyzing especially now in the face of increased competition. There's no question that Apple is losing ground on a number of different fronts. For sure hardware wise (which doesn't mean their hardware suddenly stinks, so please don't ignite that straw man) and in my opinion, also on the software side (others are reaching desktop like capabilities).

Don't we want to continue calling Apple the leader in the actual technology, instead of just the leader in sales/profits?

And this isn't just a few people here in forums. Various publications are beginning to say the same thing, some of which I've already linked to here in this thread. Do you disagree with them, too?

Does Apple have to listen to any of us? No, of course not. Will they continue to be successful if they continue doing what they're doing? Yeah, probably; who really knows. Didn't they just have a quarter that showed the first YOY loss or something? I don't remember the details, but wasn't it the first time it's ever happened? Does that concern you? And more importantly, is that really what it takes? For them to start seeing slowdown in sales and profits before we can have an honest discussion about where and how they can improve?

Please review my wishlist I posted a few pages back. Are those wishes really that contentious or outrageous that we have to keep doing this dance? Do people really have to keep responding to such discussions with "But millions of iOS users are just fine" or "Apple's sales clearly don't indicate these improvements are needed" or with straw mans like, "these changes will alienate current iPhone users" and on and on and on? Millions of Android users are fine, too, but that doesn't stop any of us from discussing where/how Google and Android can grow.

Wouldn't those improvements benefit everyone? Whether they actually need or want to use these features is up to them. That's the beauty of being able to make a phone your own. Apple just needs to give us the power to do so.
Great post. On all Android forums they always have some improvement / wishlist thread. No one comes defending Android / Google when people list their wishlist or improvements to be made.

On Apple forums it's a different story. iOS is perfect and no changes should ever be made because why change perfection? :eek::rolleyes:.
 

jamezr

macrumors P6
Aug 7, 2011
16,077
19,075
US
You haven't shown anything except a few articles that say things are possible; that's "countless" proof? I think not. Sorry who's deflecting?
Did you read the articles? It outlines how this is being done. It also references leaks from Snowden and opinions and research done by those in the cyber security and intelligence fields. The articles were written by esteemed reporters and published by a reputable publisher. The articles not been refuted by anyone and are believed to be accurate. The dates and leaked documents are facts....
The NSA and other organizations have the ability to remotely activate cameras and microphones. The have the ability to socially engineer users to enter PINs and passwords to extract any data they want from any phone. I have presented supporting articles with documentation.
You have supplied nothing but a false personal attack accusation and...well nothing else.

Even Apple references the NSA ca hack the iphone in its filings against the FBI
“The government does not deny that there may be other agencies in the government that could assist it in unlocking the phone and accessing its data; rather, it claims, without support, that it has no obligation to consult other agencies,” Apple wrote.

Not to mention that the NSA probably doesn’t want to admit it can hack into iPhones – and Apple probably doesn’t want to hear about it either.
http://bgr.com/2016/03/16/apple-fbi-iphone-nsa/

Again...i post proof to substantiate my position. You provide nothing.....
 
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navaira

macrumors 68040
May 28, 2015
3,935
5,161
Amsterdam, Netherlands
Apple is a company that still has fans that take it personally, even though it's a massive behemoth by now. Apple products inspire near-religious devotion. People tend to love their iPhones. Android phones are interchangeable; every phone only keeps people's devotion until it stops working perfectly, and then we move on to something else. Sony Z3 Compact is amazing. So I got the Z5 Compact and it's slower, heats up and reloads apps all the time. Which means I am leaving Sony ASAP, sadly. S3, S4, S5 and S6 gave Samsung a nice decline, but now that S7 is out, fixing all issues of the previous models, sales grow again. People who own iPhones tend to wait for the next iPhone, even if the model they have isn't working all that well/fast, and very few actually fulfill their "I am leaving Apple, Apple is doomed!" promises. That's my personal opinion, of course.
 

Truefan31

macrumors 68040
Aug 25, 2012
3,589
835
Who said the company is hurting? This is not an "Apple is doomed" forecast. In fact, I say the complete opposite. That the Apple branding is still incredibly strong, that they continue to have successful sales and profits, that I still wouldn't bet against Apple at this point, etc.

No one is necessarily saying Apple needs to do anything. The issue is, some people feel Apple is resting on their laurels and on the strength of their brand. Think about it. What other company can get away with what Apple does? Nobody. The pace at which they compete is worth analyzing especially now in the face of increased competition. There's no question that Apple is losing ground on a number of different fronts. For sure hardware wise (which doesn't mean their hardware suddenly stinks, so please don't ignite that straw man) and in my opinion, also on the software side (others are reaching desktop like capabilities).

Don't we want to continue calling Apple the leader in the actual technology, instead of just the leader in sales/profits?

And this isn't just a few people here in forums. Various publications are beginning to say the same thing, some of which I've already linked to here in this thread. Do you disagree with them, too?

Does Apple have to listen to any of us? No, of course not. Will they continue to be successful if they continue doing what they're doing? Yeah, probably; who really knows. Didn't they just have a quarter that showed the first YOY loss or something? I don't remember the details, but wasn't it the first time it's ever happened? Does that concern you? And more importantly, is that really what it takes? For them to start seeing slowdown in sales and profits before we can have an honest discussion about where and how they can improve?

Please review my wishlist I posted a few pages back. Are those wishes really that contentious or outrageous that we have to keep doing this dance? Do people really have to keep responding to such discussions with "But millions of iOS users are just fine" or "Apple's sales clearly don't indicate these improvements are needed" or with straw mans like, "these changes will alienate current iPhone users" and on and on and on? Millions of Android users are fine, too, but that doesn't stop any of us from discussing where/how Google and Android can grow.

Wouldn't those improvements benefit everyone? Whether they actually need or want to use these features is up to them. That's the beauty of being able to make a phone your own. Apple just needs to give us the power to do so.

I don't think I've ever called Apple the leader in technology the way you're referencing it. I believe the last quarter Apple exceeded expectations, by a slight margin. TC has predicted a slow quarter coming up. If the market responds over a period of time and Apple has multiple bad quarters then I'm sure you'll see some change, although every refresh has added some sort of features.

I don't think I called your list outrageous. I guess I'm coming from a different perspective then. I think the market usually reveals over time whether a product is successful, in particular ones where it's relatively expensive to buy. My opinions are mine only and I don't think my opinions or what I value mean anything to the state of the company. These companies to me aren't any more morally right than the other, it's always about the money.
 

The-Real-Deal82

macrumors P6
Jan 17, 2013
17,317
25,469
Wales, United Kingdom
Great post. On all Android forums they always have some improvement / wishlist thread. No one comes defending Android / Google when people list their wishlist or improvements to be made.

On Apple forums it's a different story. iOS is perfect and no changes should ever be made because why change perfection? :eek::rolleyes:.
You need to look a bit harder on this site mate ;)
 
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epicrayban

macrumors 604
Nov 7, 2014
6,517
5,353
I don't think I've ever called Apple the leader in technology the way you're referencing it. I believe the last quarter Apple exceeded expectations, by a slight margin. TC has predicted a slow quarter coming up. If the market responds over a period of time and Apple has multiple bad quarters then I'm sure you'll see some change, although every refresh has added some sort of features.

I don't think I called your list outrageous. I guess I'm coming from a different perspective then. I think the market usually reveals over time whether a product is successful, in particular ones where it's relatively expensive to buy. My opinions are mine only and I don't think my opinions or what I value mean anything to the state of the company. These companies to me aren't any more morally right than the other, it's always about the money.

Again, you're aware Apple is regarded as the leader in this industry, right? You may not call them that, but that's how they carry themselves, that's how most people perceive them as thanks to the built-up branding, and that's how most publications write about them. So when they're being challenged, as they currently are, is it that outrageous that some people are hoping they'll continue behaving like a leader?

Real-Deal said something similar, about how he doesn't pick iPhones for their design. And that's fine, but again, the perception of Apple is that they are the leader in design. Certainly Apple thinks they are; have you ever heard Jon Ivy speak in his videos? Have you noticed how much time they devote to talking about design at their keynotes?

And I cannot stress this enough: Most of us here who discuss Apple's shortcomings are Apple fans. And I argue, better and more honest Apple fans than the ones here who do nothing but point to sales/profits or draw up straw man arguments (cough FFR).

Anyway, I'm sure both Apple and the iPhone 7 will be fine. I'd love to come back to the iPhone as my daily driver if they get close to my wishlist.
 
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MadeTheSwitch

macrumors 65816
Apr 20, 2009
1,193
15,781
I know :) But S3 had amazing reviews and then I found out they must have been paid for. I'm using my brother as a guinea pig, he got the S7 and he says he can sell it to me in a few months so he can get the edge.

Also your nickname couldn't fit better.
LOL, the nickname is actually a long ago reference to me dumping Windows for Mac. Interestingly though, I am now considering getting a Surface Book. :) I'm fairly platform agnostic though with Android phones, Mac computer, iPad tablet. Both an Xbox and PlayStation. I even got an Amazon Fire tablet at Christmas to see what it could do. I just like tech.
 
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I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
35,158
25,268
Gotta be in it to win it
Did you read the articles? It outlines how this is being done. It also references leaks from Snowden and opinions and research done by those in the cyber security and intelligence fields. The articles were written by esteemed reporters and published by a reputable publisher. The articles not been refuted by anyone and are believed to be accurate. The dates and leaked documents are facts....
The NSA and other organizations have the ability to remotely activate cameras and microphones. The have the ability to socially engineer users to enter PINs and passwords to extract any data they want from any phone. I have presented supporting articles with documentation.
You have supplied nothing but a false personal attack accusation and...well nothing else.

Even Apple references the NSA ca hack the iphone in its filings against the FBI



http://bgr.com/2016/03/16/apple-fbi-iphone-nsa/

Again...i post proof to substantiate my position. You provide nothing.....

Doesn't seem to be any proof in there at all, that there is a tried and true method for plugging and iphone into something and 1 second later. Viola instant hack. Just a lot of words about how the government would like to access your data if it wants to.

In a new court brief filed this week, Apple once again makes its case that the FBI’s request to force it to unlock the San Bernardino shooter’s iPhone 5c isn’t constitutional. While this isn’t surprising, it’s notable that the iPhone maker also implies that the NSA might have what it takes to decrypt iPhones for the FBI. It’s just that the Bureau seems not to have sought such assistance.

DON’T MISS: How to see exactly how much money you’ve spent at Amazon in your life
Apple makes a point of advertising the security features of its iPhone and Mac software every chance it gets. But in this brief, it is sort-of acknowledging that intelligence agencies such as the NSA could have what it takes to hack iPhones. AsWired notes, Apple did touch on the matter before, but this time, it put this argument in writing.

“The government does not deny that there may be other agencies in the government that could assist it in unlocking the phone and accessing its data; rather, it claims, without support, that it has no obligation to consult other agencies,” Apple wrote.

The company also said that FBI Director James Comey avoided answering that question when asked about it a few weeks ago at a congressional hearing.

Ironically, Apple is advising the FBI to develop iPhone-hacking capabilities of its own if it can’t do it without the help of the NSA, instead of seeking unconstitutional ways to force tech companies to assist.

As we explained in the past, the FBI has a bigger play in mind and the NSA’s assistance isn’t required. If successful against Apple, the Bureau will set a precedent that might affect similar court duels against other tech companies based in the U.S. Furthermore, the FBI might not be interested in having to defend in court evidence obtained from hacking the device.

Not to mention that the NSA probably doesn’t want to admit it can hack into iPhones – and Apple probably doesn’t want to hear about it either.
 

jamezr

macrumors P6
Aug 7, 2011
16,077
19,075
US
Ok I will tomorrow when I get into the office would you like a picture of the box as well?
Smh.
Hey did you get a chance to pull out that Galaxy S7 the Samsung rep gave you? Can you post a pic with with your iPhone of it opened to this thread like I did my iPhone?
 

epicrayban

macrumors 604
Nov 7, 2014
6,517
5,353
AAPL drops on reports of continuing iPhone production cuts:
http://9to5mac.com/2016/04/15/aapl-drop-iphone-production-cuts/


Slow sales of the flagship iPhone 6s and iPhone 6s Plus, which debuted last autumn, have forced Apple to adjust inventories. It lowered production for the January-March quarter by about 30% from the year-earlier period. With sales still sluggish, the U.S. company has told parts suppliers in Japan and elsewhere that it will maintain the reduced output level in the current quarter.
 
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FFR

Suspended
Nov 4, 2007
4,507
2,374
London
Hey did you get a chance to pull out that Galaxy S7 the Samsung rep gave you? Can you post a pic with with your iPhone of it opened to this thread like I did my iPhone?

I had a very busy day
Didn't have a chance to turn it on.
Here are a couple of pics.
59dfe2d5cf77cf827fc5c88520df99a8.jpg

e9c278fe04ca707009d5e0d1ab13afd2.jpg
 
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Surf Donkey

Suspended
May 12, 2015
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1,434
FFR delivered! No screen on, but I buy it. Given that you use your iPhone as your daily driver, blurry photo checks out! ;)

Hey, pro tip, use that beautiful S7E sitting in your desk for much better pictures.
 

FFR

Suspended
Nov 4, 2007
4,507
2,374
London
FFR delivered! No screen on, but I buy it. Given that you use your iPhone as your daily driver, blurry photo checks out! ;)

Hey, pro tip, use that beautiful S7E sitting in your desk for much better pictures.

Putting my SIM card in and setting it up from back up
 

Blaze4G

macrumors 65816
Oct 31, 2015
1,300
1,177
You need to look a bit harder on this site mate ;)
Don't get me wrong, their are many members here that are exception. However it is common place here for many members stating what they want and not care what others want. If a member says he wants X and Apple adding X won't affect another iphone user in any way since X can be turned off...some members here dont want Apple to ever add X because they don't want it even though it won't affect them.

On Android forums it is a different case. Members reply to another member wish list saying I wouldn't want X. However they are not opposed to Google adding X if it does not affect them.
 
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FFR

Suspended
Nov 4, 2007
4,507
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London
FFR delivered! No screen on, but I buy it. Given that you use your iPhone as your daily driver, blurry photo checks out! ;)

Hey, pro tip, use that beautiful S7E sitting in your desk for much better pictures.

Thanks.
Here is with the screen on:
ff826c24b8e8ed18b879e41b26d36097.jpg



Lighting was terrible.
 
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